EPT"All the news stories about this conveniently leave out one little fact in the headlines: these were not remains as you think of remains. From the headlines, you get the impression they were just dumping caskets into the landfill. And, reading the comments here, it's clear most of you didn't read the article at all. These are partial remains, something other than the body they returned to the family. This means amputated limbs at the worst. And what did they do with them? The same thing a hospital would do with them, incinerate and dump them. Is that right? I don't know, but if you read past the headlines this isn't exactly shocking."
US military was dumping soldiers bodies in garbage - Page 4
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
"All the news stories about this conveniently leave out one little fact in the headlines: these were not remains as you think of remains. From the headlines, you get the impression they were just dumping caskets into the landfill. And, reading the comments here, it's clear most of you didn't read the article at all. These are partial remains, something other than the body they returned to the family. This means amputated limbs at the worst. And what did they do with them? The same thing a hospital would do with them, incinerate and dump them. Is that right? I don't know, but if you read past the headlines this isn't exactly shocking." | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
On December 11 2011 00:43 Kukaracha wrote: Funerary ceremonies are one of the bases of all civilizations. It's silly to say that it's a "stupid thing our civilization does" because, well, it is indeed something civilizations do. It's similar to say that it is "stupid' to form societies or to elaborate a moral code of conduct. You could go even further and say that sexual relationships are stupid, why reproduce in the first place? It's not a questionable thing, as it's part of our deepest roots. You also sound very much like a dismissive teenager who does not take the time to understand a grieving family's needs. No one will break your Linkin Park CDs if you feel bad after being dumped by your girlfriend. Human beings are mostly irrational beings after all... What? No. Anyone could say such things, but how does indicting one aspect of one funerary tradition lead to indicting organizations, rules, and reproduction? Because they're all practices of "civilizations"? That's a ludicrous reason, but maybe you were thinking of a more digestible one. For the record I'm not even going to speak to the necessity or desirability of any funerary practices. And then you lash out all ad hominem against the guy... just calm down. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On December 11 2011 01:46 EchOne wrote: What? No. Anyone could say such things, but how does indicting one aspect of one funerary tradition lead to indicting organizations, rules, and reproduction? Because they're all practices of "civilizations"? That's a ludicrous reason, but maybe you were thinking of a more digestible one. For the record I'm not even going to speak to the necessity or desirability of any funerary practices. And then you lash out all ad hominem against the guy... just calm down. Burying people is never about the dead person. It's always about the people who are still alive. They want to respect the memory of their brother, their father, their son. They don't want to have this person that they loved their entire lives thrown into a pit. They want to know that they were at least laid to rest with dignity. That is what all the outrage is about. | ||
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Artifice
United States523 Posts
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On December 11 2011 00:34 Tonybarbosa wrote: Eh, I was typing a big response to what you said but then I realised that with what you said, there'd be no reasoning with you since you and I totally disagree with the importance of something like this. Regardless, once you've died fighting for your country make sure that you let your superiors know in advance that you want your corpse to be treated like a piece of meat. They might not care because they are dead but a civilisation which disregards something as serious as a sacrifice of life for the sake of that civilisation, without having consulted the people they are supposed to be representing, has clearly wronged the families of the dead and the dead themselves - who expected more respectful treatment, and were promised it - but did not get it. Who wants to sacrifice themselves if they can't be sure they're fighting for something they really want to protect? The integrity of the armies words are threatened by instances like these. I am not saying that we should disregard the sacrifice of human life. Where did I say it? I am only saying that as a civilisation, we should really be moving on from worshiping rotting piles of goo. We should properly honour all the people that have given their everything for us to live. But we do not need their body for it. | ||
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HULKAMANIA
United States1219 Posts
Does anyone know how lost fingers, hands, limbs, etc. are disposed of by hospitals? I don't have any insider information, but from what I have been able to gather online they are sent to a biohazard crematorium and destroyed. I don't imagine that the parts receive any further special treatment. So, whether or not this practice needs revision, it's really not shocking unless you put it in the terms that the OP does (i.e.: US GOVERNMENT DUMPS DEAD SOLDIERS IN TRASHPILES!) | ||
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zobz
Canada2175 Posts
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RastaMonsta
304 Posts
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Sina92
Sweden1303 Posts
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mburke05
United States130 Posts
On December 11 2011 00:32 Microsloth wrote: I'm not even in the US military (I'm in the Canadian Navy) and I find the above quoted sentence about as disrespectful as the dumping of these bodies. Maybe it's different in the U.S., but here in Canada, we drive around with our vehicles plastered in "support our troops" stickers because we actually support them. The troops themselves. They made a choice to server their country, and if Canada began dumping bodies as is described in the article, I for damn sure wouldn't remove any stickers. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I would continue to "support our troops" I agree, it's disrespectful to dump the bodies of soldiers who died fighting for their country. However, let's not use this article as an excuse to attack your country's military as a whole. "Leaves pro-war folk little room for debate", they can still fucking debate. I don't agree with every little use of U.S. or even Canadian troops, but to say that people couldn't possibly be pro-war after reading this article is ludicrous. When it comes right down to it, my focus is on the soldier, the individual. I support them for making the decision they made to put their life on the line for the freedom's we enjoy back home. If anything, seeing an article about terrible disposal of their bodies should be a reason to support them MORE, and figure out ways to ensure it doesn't happen again. The OP made me wanna rage puke. this +100, op you sound like a total piece of shit. i intend to serve with our military and this doesn't make me blink twice; everything you said screams of entitlement and obnoxious arrogance. you serve in the military to protect the people you love, not because people have bumper stickers or wave flags or because there's a ticker tape parade in your name upon return. the fact that people have things like bumper stickers or what have is just a small bit of their subscription to a mentality of support for their servicemen and women not the military, an ideology, militarism, or whatever foreign policy exists at the time. the fact that you don't understand that is pathetic and deplorable. get a fucking life. | ||
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RabidSeagull
United States220 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
 I find that alone sickening and awful. | ||
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sorrowptoss
Canada1431 Posts
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sicnarf
Canada39 Posts
On December 11 2011 00:20 RobbybabyDTF wrote: This leads me to believe the u.s government doesn't care about it's people, or even the people who fight to defend it, interesting hmm.... You just figured that one out? Welcome to 10 years ago  | ||
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SonarCannon
Malaysia25 Posts
It's not that hard to notice this - it seems however that a great many people are jumping on the 'crucify someone' bandwagon without taking the time to actually read the damn thing. Just like SafeAsCheese pointed out with the thread in reddit, this may not have exactly been the right thing to do, but its definitely not as horrifying and shocking as people are making it out to be. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
and the idea that this shows the government doesn't care about people is stupid. first of all, the government is a constructed entity. it is logically impossible for it to care in the same way a person would. people in government makes mistakes just as people in industry does and would you really trust a private corporation with a profit mandate to care more about the remains than government would? | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
On December 11 2011 01:46 EchOne wrote: What? No. Anyone could say such things, but how does indicting one aspect of one funerary tradition lead to indicting organizations, rules, and reproduction? Because they're all practices of "civilizations"? That's a ludicrous reason, but maybe you were thinking of a more digestible one. For the record I'm not even going to speak to the necessity or desirability of any funerary practices. And then you lash out all ad hominem against the guy... just calm down. Burials are one of the first sacred phenomenons observed in human societies. Anthropologists have pointed out that it's something that occurs in every civilization, with maybe a few exceptions I'm not aware of. It's not one aspect of one funerary tradition, it's funerary tradition in general. It's one of the bases of any civilization in the world, along with sexual rules and taboos, hierarchy and paternity/maternity. I was simply pointing out the fact that it's laughable to dismiss such things because they are the foundings of society. It's much like dismissing the taboo of incest; it's pointless. Your opinion does not count when we're talking about the very basic behaviours of others according to the rules of society - simply because it's about the group, not the individual. Many things stem from such ceremonies: spirituality, tradition (respect of what is past and gone), social bonding. I was referring to sexuality as a joke, because if you're incline to dismiss the bases of any civilized group, you could go deeper and dismiss any natural law because, well, it goes against your own opinion. "Lions can fuck zebras because I, as a human, don't mind". | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On December 11 2011 02:59 Kukaracha wrote: just because it is a deeply rooted sentiment does not mean it has to be taken with respect/followed. Burials are one of the first sacred phenomenons observed in human societies. Anthropologists have pointed out that it's something that occurs in every civilization, with maybe a few exceptions I'm not aware of. It's not one aspect of one funerary tradition, it's funerary tradition in general. It's one of the bases of any civilization in the world, along with sexual rules and taboos, hierarchy and paternity/maternity. I was simply pointing out the fact that it's laughable to dismiss such things because they are the foundings of society. It's much like dismissing the taboo of incest; it's pointless. Your opinion does not count when we're talking about the very basic behaviours of others according to the rules of society - simply because it's about the group, not the individual. Many things stem from such ceremonies: spirituality, tradition (respect of what is past and gone), social bonding. I was referring to sexuality as a joke, because if you're incline to dismiss the bases of any civilized group, you could go deeper and dismiss any natural law because, well, it goes against your own opinion. "Lions can fuck zebras because I, as a human, don't mind". it is painful to bring up the normative descriptive bit again here, but let us just say that we can choose to be something other than the continuation of our ancestors. | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
Humans are animals who follow specific rules. The respect of said rules is the condition of life in society. Do you think you could run around naked raping little girls and simply... defend your point of view that, according to your opinion on life, it's acceptable? On a closer lever, we are in a democracy, and the rules of the majority prevail. Thus anyone who does not want to partake in incest or wants to have funerarial ceremonies can have what he wants, given that it's the norm. Edit; it's very similar to say that we don't need bodies to bury people. This is a logically flawed sentence, because an individual "I" expresses a new rule "no need for corpses" in the name of the community "we" who already thinks the contrary. It's very much like saying "we don't like apple pie" when you personally don't. Well, most of the people like apple pie. | ||
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