EPTOur Relationship with other Games - Page 28
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Sherlocks Mind
United States18 Posts
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
.... Uh, ok guys. This whole thing is just stupid. | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On December 06 2011 05:34 gabapenteado wrote: idk if i should be posting this, since the thread turned into a discussion about the video, but since this is about another incident with another videogame community, i think it belongs here So, what happened was this: As some of you may watched, the dreamhack street fighter finals were broadcasted in between semifinals of SC2. The crowd emptied the stadium for the SF2 finals, which was pretty rough on both the casters and the players, but this isn't necessarily our problem. I know you say this isn't our problem - but i just want to emphasise you can't really hold it against people if they don't want to stay and watch a game they don't enjoy.. One pretty bad thing that happened was that the chat was swarmed with people saying shit about the game, talking trash and demanding that SC2 be on air(though it was a scheduled time for SF2). This same treatment from the SC2 crowd happened this weekend when the NASL finals got delayed on the first day due to the LoL finals, though this time it is a bit more understandable since it was the SC2 timeslot. This is the internet - stream chats are renowned for being disgustingly BM and a massive troll fest; there is barely any accountability in a stream chat with that many people. Being a really big HoN fan it pains me when you call it LoL  the main problem is that due to timezones people want to see SC2, and if something is preventing them from doing that before they have to go to sleep, work or school it can be frustrating - people are selfish?Another problem came when the host (Ryan Hart? Not sure about name) came onstage and said "let's give it up for those button mashing heroes". Not before long, a few fighting game cumminities exploded with rage, deservedly so. The bad point was that since SC2 was pretty much the main event there, people started bashingthe low knowledge of the host and production towards their games, and blaming it on the superproduction of the SC2 event. It has been well documented that the DHW host was poorly chosen - he knew very little about anything and was probably one of the only failures on the part of DHW. This has very little if anything to do with the SC2 audience One thing they are profoundly correct of complaining about is the bashing of other games on stream chats. SC2 is good for other games, and other games bring more audience to SC2, generating rivalry amongst gaming communities with incidents such as the halo video, the shoryuken article, etc. is bad for eSports in general, and splits the public. Even if SC2 thrives, without a backing eSports scene, we maybe can never have another rts on the limelight(even a possible SC3). Every stream chat has this problem and as long as streams are based on the internet, it will never go away. People are a lot braver online, they feel they can say whatever they want; unless we live in a Utopia where everyone loves each other then i doubt there will be much improvement. And again - this isn't unique to SC2, we just happen to be one of the biggest communities and therefore probably the loudest. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On December 06 2011 05:34 gabapenteado wrote: idk if i should be posting this, since the thread turned into a discussion about the video, but since this is about another incident with another videogame community, i think it belongs here So, what happened was this: As some of you may watched, the dreamhack street fighter finals were broadcasted in between semifinals of SC2. The crowd emptied the stadium for the SF2 finals, which was pretty rough on both the casters and the players, but this isn't necessarily our problem. One pretty bad thing that happened was that the chat was swarmed with people saying shit about the game, talking trash and demanding that SC2 be on air(though it was a scheduled time for SF2). This same treatment from the SC2 crowd happened this weekend when the NASL finals got delayed on the first day due to the LoL finals, though this time it is a bit more understandable since it was the SC2 timeslot. Another problem came when the host (Ryan Hart? Not sure about name) came onstage and said "let's give it up for those button mashing heroes". Not before long, a few fighting game cumminities exploded with rage, deservedly so. The bad point was that since SC2 was pretty much the main event there, people started bashingthe low knowledge of the host and production towards their games, and blaming it on the superproduction of the SC2 event. There's a post on shoryuken that can be found here, and also a more positive note here. You can read some and take your own conclusions, so i'm gonna just jump to mine. I think they are correct on many of their complaints, though they shouldn't be associating it with SC2 growth. The host which was unintendly offensive against fightning games can be blamed on his lack of knowledge of the genre, and a very similar story happened at WCG 2005, where tasteless began his casting career(for those that don't know the story, you can check some it here), also, if i was hiring for dreamhack and SC2 was my bigger audience, i would probably would hire someone who knows about it. One thing they are profoundly correct of complaining about is the bashing of other games on stream chats. SC2 is good for other games, and other games bring more audience to SC2, generating rivalry amongst gaming communities with incidents such as the halo video, the shoryuken article, etc. is bad for eSports in general, and splits the public. Even if SC2 thrives, without a backing eSports scene, we maybe can never have another rts on the limelight(even a possible SC3). Hope the post isn't too long, but i think this thread deserves more discussion. ♥ you all I think you mean "SF4" and "HoN" rather than "SF2" and "LoL" | ||
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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
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gabapenteado
Brazil37 Posts
On December 06 2011 05:49 bkrow wrote: This is the internet - stream chats are renowned for being disgustingly BM and a massive troll fest; there is barely any accountability in a stream chat with that many people. Being a really big HoN fan it pains me when you call it LoL the main problem is that due to timezones people want to see SC2, and if something is preventing them from doing that before they have to go to sleep, work or school it can be frustrating - people are selfish?First of all, i'm really sorry, as pointed out, HoN was playing during the NASL finals and not LoL, and it's out of pure ignorance that i said it was LoL. I understand they are different games and i should have done my research (as you can see from the post, a lot of it was from memory, so i kind of messed up). Also, yeah it was SF4. SSF4:AE, actually. Again, sorry. About the stream, I just don't think it is fair when people complain about a game that is streaming on its own timeslot. If SF4 is scheduled to play from say, 7:00pm to 8:00pm, i can't really complain that SC2 is not on air. Also, the post also serves as a warning to people saying that the SC2 community can also be pretty annoying to other games viewers | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
This is one of the key problems with the recent attempt to try to unite competitive gamers under the "eSports" banner. Starcraft doesn't bring more people to Halo. Halo doesn't bring more people to Starcraft. The same goes for Street Fighter, DoTA, or any other game out there. They are different games with different audiences, which is why at MLG, they are held on different stages. I feel Dreamhack and NASL made a bit of a mistake in trying to mash different genres together on the same stage despite the fact that there were good intentions behind it. Hopefully we'll all be able to open up and respect each other one day, but I'm not going to be holding my breath waiting for that day to come. | ||
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Tuxedo
United States134 Posts
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
Sorry, but Slasher ain't the definition of starcraft. Look at savior. That guy knew how to roll(ex)... Flash has style. Bisu has style. Boxer has swag. Nada has style. Sad thread, but it shows the saviors style in the OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125673 Regarding the 'nerd' sterotype, we all know were nerds. Just listen to a tastosis cast... Were all handsome nerds ^.^ That being said, yeah I get it you guys are just trying to hold on the game you love  BW elites do the same thing haha | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
Yes I get it, they're mad/sad/angry/whatever that their only real esport outlet MLG is putting them on the bottom because of SC2, but trying to vent that frustration by bashing the community that is taking their spot is not gonna help the problem, if anything it will make it worse by showing how immature console gamers really are. If they really want to try and save their game they need to go to the community in a positive way, show sponsors that the community is big enough to be worth investing money into, thus far all they're showing is that their community is immature hateful and bitter. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:40 hunts wrote: Video is pretty dumb. Aside from their terrible grammar and trying to sound "gangsta" behind a computer screen which in my mind takes away any credibility they may have ever had, they're trying to "get their community riled up" by shit talking ours, when they don't know anything about SC2 or the SC2 community. Yes I get it, they're mad/sad/angry/whatever that their only real esport outlet MLG is putting them on the bottom because of SC2, but trying to vent that frustration by bashing the community that is taking their spot is not gonna help the problem, if anything it will make it worse by showing how immature console gamers really are. If they really want to try and save their game they need to go to the community in a positive way, show sponsors that the community is big enough to be worth investing money into, thus far all they're showing is that their community is immature hateful and bitter. They do know about SC2 and the community. They do content production for MLG, and are in touch with the tourney organizers who deal directly with the players and community, they know things. Also it's a joke, which you seem to be missing. The shit-talking isn't real shit talking, they're just poking fun, and anyone who gets legitimately mad at it needs thicker skin. | ||
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Clank
United States548 Posts
Maybe there are some players out there we don't know about that could have a great personality, we just haven't had the chance to see it. Hopefully some tournaments can do some more of those panels or other ways to try and develop some personalities amongst the players | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:40 hunts wrote: Video is pretty dumb. Aside from their terrible grammar and trying to sound "gangsta" behind a computer screen which in my mind takes away any credibility they may have ever had, they're trying to "get their community riled up" by shit talking ours, when they don't know anything about SC2 or the SC2 community. Yes I get it, they're mad/sad/angry/whatever that their only real esport outlet MLG is putting them on the bottom because of SC2, but trying to vent that frustration by bashing the community that is taking their spot is not gonna help the problem, if anything it will make it worse by showing how immature console gamers really are. If they really want to try and save their game they need to go to the community in a positive way, show sponsors that the community is big enough to be worth investing money into, thus far all they're showing is that their community is immature hateful and bitter. I would advise watching more than 5-10 minutes of the video. | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:47 [17]Purple wrote: I would advise watching more than 5-10 minutes of the video. pretty hard for most people who are fan of starcraft to get through the first 10 minutes of that 1 hour video, and i think it largely contributes to all the misunderstanding. Though they do need to reconstruct their point a little bit | ||
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
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marcelluspye
United States155 Posts
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Fealthas
607 Posts
I think those guys were just sad their spray and pray hobby is out of the spotlight. Sc2 just broadcasts so much better then halo/fps. Watching a pro play from first person makes my head hurt.(Why I dont watch pro halo). I also think there is more variance in sc2 with different builds / strategies. | ||
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Befree
695 Posts
I think SC2 could be more appealing with higher fashion standards, but SC2 or even video games in general are hardly the only communities/scenes/industries with this problem. So I don't see it as a very useful criticism of SC2 specifically. As for relationship to other games, I don't really think as highly of most other competitive video games. I would never place them on the same level of importance as SC2, but I still enjoy watching competitive games of any type. I don't think SC2 community should be specifically linked to some other game in like a partnership, but I'd encourage individuals to still support other competitive games. | ||
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ApBuLLet
United States604 Posts
Yeah sure, they said some stupid shit about StarCraft and the players/community of StarCraft. Like arguing about whether or not StarCraft players or Halo players have more hobbies and who has more style or whatever is just stupid... lol. Yeah I understand the style thing was a joke, that's fine. People on our own show, State of the Game, have made jokes like that about Halo before and that's fine. Their making a video for the Halo community, and they're going to say things to entertain the Halo community and I think that is good. Other things they said did come off as disrespectful and somewhat of a cheap shot at a huge group of people that they don't even know, which is what I think people got so pissed off about. Also, they keep comparing the StarCraft community to people like Slasher and Destiny, and saying that we as a whole think the same way they do. THAT ISN'T EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE lol. Slasher and Destiny are kind of outliers in the community and you can't generalize literally hundreds of thousands of people based on them. Saying that we think Halo are like elementary school kids and StarCraft is like college kids is a huge generalization, and I think that it speaks only for the vocal minority. I personally have a lot of respect for these guys. Yeah sure, I don't find their game very interesting or hard or competitive or whatever, but that is what they love and want to do and they are trying hard to promote that and I think that is a lot more then what most StarCraft 2 fans are doing for SC2 and eSports. Respecting the people and respecting the game they play are very different things and it is sad that many people have a bad impression of people working towards the same goal as us, just because they play a different game. This kinda leads into my next point... I understand that us SC2 players and fans are really passionate about the game and about our community and all that, but bashing them so damn hard over a stupid video is ridiculous. Like some response to it is perfectly fine and is completely warranted, because like I said they said some stupid shit, but being at their throats over some ignorant jokes they made is pretty immature. /rant | ||
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Archie_Lewis
Czech Republic87 Posts
Firstly I dont really have time to follow every pro scene. Secondly, I dont even find other games very interesting. In my deeply subjective opinion, starcraft is the best game an I have chosen to follow it. Damn it, Halo might just have the best e sports scene in the universe, but I will never know that, for the game is not my cup of tea . But I dont force starcraft to anybody, therefore I expect the same from other gaming communities. Clearly, SC bashing wont help them in any shape or form. | ||
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