This is the video that has inspired this thread. If you can't view it, it is basically 3 notable identities in the halo community discussing their thoughts on starcraft in general, and most are just plain offensive and cheap shots at our game (most are in the first 10 minutes so that is all you have to watch to get the general idea).
This has virtually all stemmed from MLG in particular, and the total domination of the scene SC2 brought with it. Halo fans are feeling the pressure to even sustain their game through next year
There are a coupe of questions that arise from this video, such as how do we as a community take this? Do we sympathize with them and try to co operate and help their cause, or remain on the path we are on and continue to drive these sort of games out of the MLG spotlight? Is there even room to share with games like these anymore?
Do we as a community helping e sports forward, encourage all games or our game?
I think this is a very relevant discussion point, and I would also like to put forward my opinion, that although it is sad some games have fallen from their prime, at the end of the day you take the game with the bigger viewing audience, and right now it is starcraft 2. An interesting point to think about is, what if League of Legends and Dota2 all of a sudden become the only game for e sports, and everything else becomes irrelevant. How would you feel, to see the community you know and love, fall from its peak. This is where these people are coming from, but I think unfortunately it is a business, and the most views is where e sports goes
How do you guys react to a video like this, what does it mean to you, what would you like to see done?
EDIT: There seems to be a misconception on how serious this video actually was. Although they are taking a poke at SC2, they are just having fun, and have even made an apology located here: http://www.twitch.tv/thehalocouncil/b/301735446
The rest of the video is about them praising Starcraft as a sport and hoping to lead their community in the right direction, this is at most a joke and should not be taken seriously
And what the hell do they mean that we are nerds and they are cooler than us! Just look at this!:
On December 05 2011 17:14 Bayyne wrote: They may claim they have more style, but you can't say we don't have the swagger:
I have no problem to support other esports games if they are worthy but some should really not be at the place they are
Huk opinion about it
LorangerChris Chris Loranger @Kennigit mmmm ive talked a bit with some of them, a lot of their points are valid but a lot of their points are pure ignorance TT
Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
Honestly, I don't care, Starcraft community is so huge compared to halos community. You say that we maybe should sympathize because their community is getting smaller and possibly dying off, but why should we care? If a game deserves to be an eSport it will survive, also you talk like halo has a big loyal community, I am sorry to say it does not.
Nobody really cares what some halo people have to say about starcraft, most of their views and points are pure ignorance and anger fueled. Also, Halo is considered a Joke compared to other FPS games for most people. I am all for any game doing well and everything, but if you ask me if a game with a community that actually follows it as a devoted eSport is very few people. It is a game mostly for people to play and have fun casually, they do not have a huge devoted community.
I am sorry but I just don't care about a few halo people talking shit about starcraft because they are honestly, jealous and worried about their game.
Like you said, it is a business, and the game with the most viewers is what's gonna be focused on. Halo has dropped out, but I don't know if sc2 will drop out as easily. SC has been long established and ingrained in the community longer than halo has. But also, and I think this is the most important, is that sc2 is a developing game with constantly changing meta games, mind games, and tactics. Halo, while it does have different strategies, there is no metagame. . .
I vary well could be sc biased (could you blame me? hah), but sc2 has a lot more growth and intricacies that halo does not have that will sustain sc2 for muchhh longer =)
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
These guys are a joke, they just did nothing but hurt the halo community and make a lot of people dislike them. Worst thing they could have done.
Edit: I don't mean that they are a joke in their community or anything, I just meant that what they did is pretty stupid considering how many people are going to be mad about this.
On December 05 2011 11:13 dAPhREAk wrote: im five minutes in and nothing they say seems to be even that controversial...
I completely agree. Is anyone going to be upset because one community thinks they dress better or that they are cooler? For the first, well hey, cool. For the latter, why would they not?
I mean, they want to light a fire for their community. Excellent, that is what they need to do. The little jab taken at StarCraft players and fans was so miniscule it should not be taken with anything but a smile and friendliness.
On December 05 2011 11:17 Fionn wrote: In all honesty, they don't seem very harsh. They're just playing around and joking. Some of their points are valid.
But hosting a Skype video blogcast about Halo is nerdy as well. E-sports in general are nerdy. Shit, sport fats are sport nerds.
Pretty much this. I hope people don't try to start a huge controversy over this video.
That was group of guys sharing some frustration about their game going from center stage to sidelines and it was not productive and will probably help to hurt the image of their community. If not, it will hurt the image of their little show.
I can tell you did not watch the video at all and basically went off what Kennigit and Reddit went off on.
I saw the whole episode. They spent most of the video praising the Starcraft 2 community and how it has become the benchmark for where they want the Halo community to be and they even shit talk the Halo community for being babied by MLG and not doing shit. In fact a whole movement has started by the Halo community influenced by what the the Starcraft 2 community is doing right, because they respect the monster of an eSports game that it has become. But obviously we are just gonna go off on what they said in the first minute. Sure that part was a big dick waving but Jesus Christ man. Not something to throw a bitch fit about.
Austin "IMiKWeN" McCleary, a Halo pro, expressed his displeasure with the comments they made:
IMiKWeN Austin McCleary @LorangerChris Pretty much my point as well, they definitely have the right idea, the delivery of it is terrible though. 57 minutes ago
IMiKWeN Austin McCleary @LorangerChris I love those 3 guys, that video was just stupid as shit. I'm a halo player, and that pissed ME off.
While they are indeed community members, their opinions do not express the whole Halo scene. If JP went off shitting on other games, it doesn't mean the whole SC2 community is shitting on that scene. The Halo scene doesn't hate SC2.
On December 05 2011 11:13 dAPhREAk wrote: im five minutes in and nothing they say seems to be even that controversial...
What? They're taking the piss out of the SC2 community for their "dress sense". I don't even see what basis that has, but what the fuck.
who gives a shit? its a video game. you are going to wear a freaking tuxedo to play a computer game? most people are wearing team jerseys.
this video is mild, and i am pissed that i watched it. i thought it would be some interesting drama. instead, its just some people talking about their game and making dumb comments about dress sense and extracurricular activities.
and they gave a shout out to white-ra drinking vodka, which was cool.
for people who havent watched it yet, dont even bother. its boring and i am 12 minutes in now.
I'm pretty sure if League of Legends came into MLG next season and took the main stage from SC2, we would have something like SotG calling a call to arms the same way the Halo community is trying to. They were the top dog at MLG forever, then SC2 came in and dwarfed them in no time. Now Halo is in the back corner and totally ignored while SC2 dominates all the coverage, fans and money.
Eh, there's a new Halo coming out at the end of 2012 I think? So they should be fine o.o
Im not gonna watch because I dont wanna feel annoyed, but I wanted to point out that their community wont die anytime soon unless that game is horrible... and probably not even then.
Seems just like they're trying to maintain an image. Yes, Starcraft players in general are socially awkward and play the game religiously but that goes hand in hand with the scene being bigger.
ignore it. i've been a halo fan forever, and i still like sc2 as well. There's a lot of shit talk from the sc2 community about halo (even at MLG itself!) and the best thing to do is ignore it.
Who really cares?
also:
On December 05 2011 11:17 Kamikiri wrote: These guys are a joke, they just did nothing but hurt the halo community and make a lot of people dislike them. Stupidest thing they could have done.
Yeah, in general they were being pretty cool about it. In general they seem to like the SC2 community, probably because we have made MLG so big. Like they said though, they went from the top to the bottom. The only real way they bashed us on were are fashion sense, which sounded more like a joke than anything. They bashed their own fans 20 times more, and so I hope this doesn't become anything.
basically they're just saying that halo takes less skill, so they have more time to do other stuff.
They keep going back to the sc players being absolute nerds, but idk, i wouldn't call some of these koreans like bisu, boxer, flash nerds, well not complete nerds.
When you're making money in the hundreds of thousands and probably getting all the fangirls you could ask for, you must have some kind of cool thing goin' on with you
Silly plebs think "$150 Air Maxs" are the height of style...lolololol All credibility lost. I've seen how these so called "stylish" Alpha nerds dress at MLGs and da shit is laughable. They look like they just crawled out the frat house. I bet their mamas still dress em for church on Sundays.
But my real beef is making Slasher the Starcraft style representative. How da fuck did that happen? I vote Kennigit 2011 MLG Fashion Rep.
Oh sweet Jesus, this shit is seriously worse than xbox live which is saying a lot. I watched the video and apparently they are mad that starcraft players are more dedicated to their jobs than the halo "community".
On December 05 2011 11:13 dAPhREAk wrote: im five minutes in and nothing they say seems to be even that controversial...
What? They're taking the piss out of the SC2 community for their "dress sense". I don't even see what basis that has, but what the fuck.
who gives a shit? its a video game. you are going to wear a freaking tuxedo to play a computer game? most people are wearing team jerseys.
this video is mild, and i am pissed that i watched it. i thought it would be some interesting drama. instead, its just some people talking about their game and making dumb comments about dress sense and extracurricular activities.
and they gave a shout out to white-ra drinking vodka, which was cool.
for people who havent watched it yet, dont even bother. its boring and i am 12 minutes in now.
yeh i stopped watching after 14 minutes and started skipping ahead. its all halo content except for the little bit about sc2 in the beginning - not controversial at all, not thread worthy, not discussion worthy.
Austin "IMiKWeN" McCleary from Turning Point has comment on this.
I'm afraid to even type this. I'm a pro Halo Player, and this is nothing what most of us think. I respect the hell out of SC, I played WC3 back before I started playing Halo. I know ALOT of of the pros, and community respect your game also. This video, is just....stupid. I love all 3 of these guys, and this is nothing what they act like, but this is just down right fucking retarded.
"Halo is more casual, starcraft you have to play religiously to be even slightly competitive".
Damn right starcraft requires practice. Thats why people love it and watch it. That's why it is the closest to becoming a real ESport. I don't really take console games seriously.. they aren't competitive.
Well one thing that really hurts the game in my opinion is that they don't have live shoutcasting at events. They don't have sound proof booths so when they play on stage it's just watching them play. Which for someone like me who really doesn't play halo I don't understand what is really going on. Other than hey he shot that guy and that guy jumps alot.
The only thing I got out of the first 10 minutes of the video was that halo players spend money on clothes and starcraft players don't..... Halo requires very little skill level in terms of practice per day. Starcraft takes more practice to be at the top of top tiers. We are all nerds regardless. thats about it.
On December 05 2011 11:20 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Eh, there's a new Halo coming out at the end of 2012 I think? So they should be fine o.o
Im not gonna watch because I dont wanna feel annoyed, but I wanted to point out that their community wont die anytime soon unless that game is horrible... and probably not even then.
Yeah Halo won't die until either they get sick of Halo (doubt it'll happen) or they stop making Halo games. I would be surprised if the Halo scene died at all in the near future just like sc2.
I also didn't watch because I hate being annoyed by stupid comments :D
@Kennigit @dmaq Kennigit - You're 100% right. I jumped to a conclusion in a prior video, and we are kinda joking around at this point.
@Kennigit @dmaq I don't actually believe the argument I proposed - it just got so much attention that I ran with it.
Video is down. I don't feel like we were being serious. Going to have to hold up a professional attitude every time we make a video? :\
It was intended as a joke, came off the wrong way - and as you can see by their twitter accounts, they went live again to clarify all this (I haven't seen this part). Yes it was in bad taste and I agree that it was probably pretty stupid, but people are just going to read the OP and watch those videos and take it out of context.
You should feel bad for them. I was at MLG Anaheim where the sc2 scene was atleast 5 times the size of Halo. During the sc2 finals the Halo awards ceremony was literally boo'd off the stage so we could watch sc on their screens... Kinda of dick move by the fans at Anaheim. But if the crowds want it, they get it. That's the way of entertainment. These Halo guys are probably just mad about stuff like that haha
Yep, listening now and they're fine. Shit, DJWheat makes fun of console gamers all the time. They just want their e-sport to thrive and get back to where it once was.
They actually praise the SC2 fans. They talk about how SC2 fans created Barcraft and are doing all these proactive things while Halo fans are immature, annoying, and don't do shit except whining.
Is "style" a real issue in the Halo community? At MLG Dallas earlier this year, some young (probably 16) Halo fan pointed at my jean cut-off shirts and laughed with his friends. I gave him my best "I'm about to whoop your ass with my nerd arms" face and he looked away.
This was the only problem I ever had with anyone at MLG. Everyone I met that was there for StarCraft was so incredibly nice. Especially in the Alienware area, where people were playing and giving tips. Not sure if any of that happens in the Halo community.
I don't really agree with what they're saying - just because they don't know the personal lives of the players, maybe because the players don't get exposure outside of the SC2/tournament environment, doesn't mean they're non-existent.
Why do they have to insult the SC2 players/community to fire up their own?
Well you know you can't take this video seriously when you see the idiots in this video 'attempting' to speak english.
The fact that they're making the argument: "starcraft players are nerds", is actually mind-blowing.
Oh and the fact that they're saying "we ain't hating on y'all" just fosters up suicidal thoughts. I didn't know kids with an IQ of 50 are actually capable of creating youtube videos..
On December 05 2011 11:07 Kamikiri wrote: Honestly, I don't care, Starcraft community is so huge compared to halos community. You say that we maybe should sympathize because their community is getting smaller and possibly dying off, but why should we care? If a game deserves to be an eSport it will survive, also you talk like halo has a big loyal community, I am sorry to say it does not.
Nobody really cares what some halo people have to say about starcraft, most of their views and points are pure ignorance and anger fueled. Also, Halo is considered a Joke compared to other FPS games for most people. I am all for any game doing well and everything, but if you ask me if a game with a community that actually follows it as a devoted eSport is very few people. It is a game mostly for people to play and have fun casually, they do not have a huge devoted community.
I am sorry but I just don't care about a few halo people talking shit about starcraft because they are honestly, jealous and worried about their game.
I agree with everything you posted. All of their "points" just told me how upset and scared that Halo is dying and so they are taking it out on SC.
Also "buying 150$ woth of gear" does not make a valid point.
One of the top rated comments on the youtube page.
"I'm afraid to even type this. I'm a pro Halo Player, and this is nothing what most of us think. I respect the hell out of SC, I played WC3 back before I started playing Halo. I know ALOT of of the pros, and community respect your game also. This video, is just....stupid. I love all 3 of these guys, and this is nothing what they act like, but this is just down right fucking retarded."
LOL... the not stylish thing is so baseless and pure ignorance... especially in the korean scene... remember the twilight/goth make up incident in GSL? Remember ALICIA!? OR MAYBE THE GRACKET?
On December 05 2011 11:13 dAPhREAk wrote: im five minutes in and nothing they say seems to be even that controversial...
What? They're taking the piss out of the SC2 community for their "dress sense". I don't even see what basis that has, but what the fuck.
who gives a shit? its a video game. you are going to wear a freaking tuxedo to play a computer game? most people are wearing team jerseys.
this video is mild, and i am pissed that i watched it. i thought it would be some interesting drama. instead, its just some people talking about their game and making dumb comments about dress sense and extracurricular activities.
and they gave a shout out to white-ra drinking vodka, which was cool.
for people who havent watched it yet, dont even bother. its boring and i am 12 minutes in now.
yeh i stopped watching after 14 minutes and started skipping ahead. its all halo content except for the little bit about sc2 in the beginning - not controversial at all, not thread worthy, not discussion worthy.
The first 4 minutes are there to stir up controversy. The rest are about Halo and how the community needs to help support Halo. If anything the controversy is there to get the video viewed by more people.
ehh fruitful discussions... who is more nerdy of the nerd communities? They said that halo was more casual at the most competitive level well it's because of the skill cap in the halo game. Starcraft is a lot tougher and that doesn't require more "nerdiness" but more stamina, will power and dedication. Also starcraft attracts more causal non-players/only-spectators than halo which would lead to the conclusion that halo is more a insiders game than sc2.
Their community needs people like a Day[9] and his daily #100 to inspire their own fanbase to tell others how great their game is. I suppose the daily can also apply to anything one is really passionate about. But having someone charismatic that can infect strangers with joy is huge for any community.
The way this video started is not something I'd want to show my friends to convince how amazing my hobby is.
Honestly one of them addresses that they are mostly venting because they used to be at the top of the totem poll and now starcraft has blown them out of the water. It seems they feel backed into a corner and are trying to say something about it. They clearly lack a point because the majority of the rant was about how we are nerds even if we don't think we are.
The thing that makes me mad is how they all claim to be nerds, oh im nerdy as fuck check out the nerd in me. Then they proceed to bash sc players as nerds.
Maybe it would spark some argumentative side in me if they talked about the game itself. But them ranting about being more stylish brings out a response in me more like: "k." /lose interest.
first few minutes are total bullshit, but after a while it wasn't that bad. I have no idea why they feel the need to start up like that, but I suppose it creates attention
I think these guys are an embarrassment to themselves. I don't know who they are in the Halo community, but as a first impression, what I see are a group of people who are trying to elevate themselves above another community (why?) by focusing on petty differences such as 'style'.
Honestly, who cares? They swear far too much as well. These guys may be some of the greatest Halo players (I don't know), but there is nothing professional in their conduct and it makes me feel ashamed to call myself a passionate gamer.
If you rise to the top of a community, you have to behave in a reasonable manner because you are an ambassador for that community. These guys represent themselves poorly.
On December 05 2011 11:20 GenoZStriker wrote: I can tell you did not watch the video at all and basically went off what Kennigit and Reddit went off on.
I saw the whole episode. They spent most of the video praising the Starcraft 2 community and how it has become the benchmark for where they want the Halo community to be and they even shit talk the Halo community for being babied by MLG and not doing shit. In fact a whole movement has started by the Halo community influenced by what the the Starcraft 2 community is doing right, because they respect the monster of an eSports game that it has become. But obviously we are just gonna go off on what they said in the first minute. Sure that part was a big dick waving but Jesus Christ man. Not something to throw a bitch fit about.
Austin "IMiKWeN" McCleary, a Halo pro, expressed his displeasure with the comments they made:
IMiKWeN Austin McCleary @LorangerChris Pretty much my point as well, they definitely have the right idea, the delivery of it is terrible though. 57 minutes ago
IMiKWeN Austin McCleary @LorangerChris I love those 3 guys, that video was just stupid as shit. I'm a halo player, and that pissed ME off.
While they are indeed community members, their opinions do not express the whole Halo scene. If JP went off shitting on other games, it doesn't mean the whole SC2 community is shitting on that scene. The Halo scene doesn't hate SC2.
Yes i do admit i did not watch all of it, and i can agree with you on this point
To be frank, they don't bash on sc2 at all. I feel like they want to revive his community but using sc2 as an exemple in some way. They said that sc2 don't wait to do something instead of the halo player
On December 05 2011 11:37 Porcelina wrote: I feel that this issue has to be covered in the GLHF series. I can imagine a plethora of fitting headlines. Good stuff.
Love this btw ^^
They are clearly being silly and they probably should not have gone about bad mouthing starcraft 2 pros. They are trying to boost their community but it is a bad way to do it.
On a side note no one plays halo reach compared to halo 3. The multiplayer in halo reach is a joke.
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
You do kinda prove their point, I've gotta say :D. Other than that, I don't think they were too serious. P.S. I've only heard of halo's existence because of MLG-s, so I'm not biased in the slightest ...
edit : now that I've read through all the posts here - THEY are saying that they have more outside activites, YOU are bashing them because their game doesn't require as much time ... Ehm ... guys, you actually share the same opinion, only tl-ers here sound like they're getting a little defensive
First of all, listen to how these guys speak compare to the guys on SOTG. It's like high school dropouts vs Phd's.
Second, they make a correct observation that Starcraft takes more dedication than Halo, and that there's less free time for SC pros. What of it? That's to Starcraft's credit as an esport relative to Halo.
Let's just all love each other. If you don't like something, you don't have to pretend to like it. However, show it the respect it deserves. That goes for all sides of any debate on this topic, as this same damn discussion seems to be coming up everywhere it seems. Whether they are joking or not is irrelevant, to flip a shit over it and start this little dick measuring contest of "WELL OUR GAME IS BIGGER SO I DONT MIND LOL" is just as immature as what they may or may not be doing seriously. Be the bigger men in situations like these and treat them with respect. Don't stoop to their level, etc. If we set a good example, others will follow. It's that simple.
I really don't understand what they're getting at. When has a SC2 player ever denied being a nerd? We know we're nerds and we're proud of it. Look at examples like the Handsome Nerd.com run by Tasteless and Artosis. We don't try to hide it. Secondly, why would they hate on us because our game is harder and more demanding of our time? Most SC2 pros can't be involved in anything serious outside of the game because you need to practice 8-10 hours to be elite. To me they are just hating because SC2 players are FAR MORE popular and make more money. It is simple as that. No need to be jealous.
On December 05 2011 11:45 VirGin wrote: "We have a sense of style, and we dress up." *looks like a bum when saying it*
I was amused
Halo is a joke as an "Esport" anyways The real fps skill is with CS.
This and Quake. The fact of the matter is the fact that they claim theyre game is for casuals. Answers all the questions about why it doesnt or hasnt workedas an esport. Maybe it does have the potential and the wrong kind of people play it, which would make these guys not so bad.
Also they didnt really talk any shit about SC2 tbh.
I think a lot of it has to with the fact PC gamers in general do not like Console shooters.
And Starcraft's demographic are mostly PC gamers.
It's very difficult for PC gamers to respect a console shooter, when they have aim assist and the general slowness compared to PC shooters.
This causes a lot of tension. I'm perfectly fine with not supporting Halo tho. It's not interesting to watch, and while it requires skill, there are other games out there with higher skill ceilings. Quake and CS or any fighting game, although they have EVO, are way more interesting than halo. Or COD:MW for that matter.
I think it was pretty obvious they were joking. When one of them could easily list the 4 pros that were interviewed during some meeting at IEM it made it pretty obvious he respects/pays attention to SC2. They were even saying that SC2 is a much harder game.
Listening now. Man. People are making a big deal out of nothing. All they said was that sc players are nerdier than halo players. This is probably accurate, and who cares, because there's nothing wrong it. It means SC players are passionate about their game. That's cool.
Don't worry. Most of the Halo community thinks Gandhi, Dmaq, and Nexy are fools too. Bunch of old buddies from when MLG was building itself on Halo who got jobs with the company as it was growing.
Wait, these guys work for MLG? Oh man.... I dont think we'll be seeing them next season at the MLG Pro Circut casting. I play both Halo and SC2, switch inbetween those two streams when there is downtime in sc2
What the fuck. Most of these comments are just so ignorant and fucking stupid, I can't believe they even had the nerve to say live and also post up the video on youtube.
I realize that a few sour apples don't represent a few communities, but I think that this will really start some tension between both communities ._.
I've come to Starcraft from a background in the halo community. The actual way I discovered starcraft 2 was watching MLG for Halo and expanding my interests to watch the Starcraft Stream. I have been to MLG's competing for halo a under Team Xcessive...Some diehard halo fans might remember us... I'm now fighting to get my way into masters and watch MLG's for Starcraft instead of Halo.
What I have to say is that you cannot judge what Ghandi and the other guys have to say as "Our relationship with other games". This opinion does not reflect the halo community as a whole because the halo community does not have website like Teamliquid that conveys the opinions of the games community. During the whole course of me being a competitive halo player the only 'Halo community' that existed were a few people on the MLG forums who would complain about their team being bad.
Ghandi and these guys, while being somewhat known among halo players, don't voice opinions of halo players as a whole in the slightest.
On December 05 2011 11:59 LanTAs wrote: Wait, these guys work for MLG? Oh man.... I dont think we'll be seeing them next season at the MLG Pro Circut casting. I play both Halo and SC2, switch inbetween those two streams when there is downtime in sc2
What the fuck. Most of these comments are just so ignorant and fucking stupid, I can't believe they even had the nerve to say live and also post up the video on youtube.
I realize that a few sour apples don't represent a few communities, but I think that this will really start some tension between both communities ._.
I can't believe you are taking this much offense to what they said. It's like if a SC figure jokingly called Halo players frat boys (and I'm pretty sure something along these lines has been said in at least one SOTG). It's not serious, it's not a big deal, stop flipping out.
All the starcraft2 community has to do is not be ignorant self righteous dicks towards other games. You dont have to "help them out", tbh that even sounds quite patronising. Just dont be an elitist dick.
Also theyr right. Starcraft guys are nerdy as hell. They never said that was bad. Its true.
as Gamers and members of e-sport community we shouldn't support all other games for the sake of e-sport, if a game is bad - halo (opinion)- i am not willing to help it out if i consider it to be cancer for e-sport. we need to support good games, that are based on competitive gameplay.
I think these halo players confuse e-entertainement(games for fun ex.skyrim/amnesia etc.) and e-sports(has to be comptetitive and based on gameplay and skill ex.BW, sc2, cs 1.6)
some games are in between right now, halo, COD, hon/dota/LoL. they have a competitive scene but they require minimal investment and dedication to be pro. the skill cap you can reach with analogs controller is very limited same goes with a 5 abilities based game like dota.
If there is a bigger scene for sc2 its because it is much more entertaining to watch due to the immensity of gaming skills that is recognizable when watching. playing dota and halo is quite fun. but i wouldnt pay to watch someone else play.
FPS' are great, it's just that among competitive FPS, Halo is the least respectable. Nothing against Halo, though, it was the Goldeneye of the next gaming generation and people have strong affection for it.
Dude on the right reminds me of Kanye West. "Yo, I'm gonna let you finish but..."
They have some points I'm sure, but I'm done watching it after 5:00. Why does it matter which game's players dress up more? What does that have to do with playing their game? So what if SC2 players don't really do much outside of their proffession, there are a lot of people like that in the world.
They just seem upset that our part of the E-Sports community aren't "Bro gamers".
This is the reason why I wish console esports die. He said it himself, they were at the very top, now a competitive community came, the halo community is at the bottom. and thats where they deserve to be with such lame "stylish" (LOL nice one fatty) representation. and fuck they dress like shit...
On December 05 2011 12:11 wrekkless wrote: Dude on the right reminds me of Kanye West. "Yo, I'm gonna let you finish but..."
They have some points I'm sure, but I'm done watching it after 5:00. Why does it matter which game's players dress up more? What does that have to do with playing their game? So what if SC2 players don't really do much outside of their proffession, there are a lot of people like that in the world.
They just seem upset that our part of the E-Sports community aren't "Bro gamers".
Since you didn't watch the video or read this thread, and therefore do not actually know what you are talking about, I just want to point out what they said was said jokingly, and they were calling for their community to be MORE like the SC2 community in reality.
On December 05 2011 12:10 Kaal wrote: This is hilarious.
When people on SotG shit on other games in seriousness it's hilarious.
But if people make fun, in jest, of SC2, OH GOD THEY'RE TRASHING SC2 HURTING ESPORTS THEYRE NOT EVEN ESPORTS THEYRE DUMB STUPID SHOES.
Turnabouts a bitch, and most of you need thicker skin.
This is the absolute best post in the thread.
What the fuck people. "Don't worry it's Halo" and all the other game bashing that goes on in streams, SotG, and all that is perfectly fine. But once someone touches our precious game, OH NO ALERT THE PRESSES THEY ARE HURTING ESPORTS. It seems like "hurting esports" is the new buzzword for "I am offended/dislike what he is saying/dislike that decision." Get some thicker skin and grow up. It's a joke, it was intended to be a joke and I personally found it hilarious.
On December 05 2011 12:14 Samp wrote: This is the reason why I wish console esports die. He said it himself, they were at the very top, now a competitive community came, the halo community is at the bottom. and thats where they deserve to be with such lame "stylish" (LOL nice one fatty) representation. and fuck they dress like shit...
even if its a joke, Halo is a joke.
This is the exact type of poster and posting quality that paints US in a worse light than them, even if their video was serious (which it isn't). Christ, didn't your parents ever tell you to "be a bigger man" or something? This is just childish guys.
Dude bro he's wearing $150 nikes he's pretty baller yo
but seriously. These guys are just frustrated because the halo scene and all of that is kinda falling out of the wayside for our game. I think the thing about halo being on console and therefore more casual is you dont have the kind of devotion en masse as starcraft players who work at being good and love to watch our players play the game we love just like we do (albeit much much better). I think they just want to energize their community and get it's head above the water before it goes down. I wish they could do it in a better, more constructive way than shitting on us because dude bro look at those dorks lol, but it's whatever. Halo is like the kid who was really cool in high school, but then didn't do anything after and ended up kind of staying in his hometown and working as an assistant manager at Denny's or something while starcraft was able to become successful now that it's in the mainstream mlg spotlight.
On December 05 2011 12:11 wrekkless wrote: Dude on the right reminds me of Kanye West. "Yo, I'm gonna let you finish but..."
They have some points I'm sure, but I'm done watching it after 5:00. Why does it matter which game's players dress up more? What does that have to do with playing their game? So what if SC2 players don't really do much outside of their proffession, there are a lot of people like that in the world.
They just seem upset that our part of the E-Sports community aren't "Bro gamers".
Since you didn't watch the video or read this thread, and therefore do not actually know what you are talking about, I just want to point out what they said was said jokingly, and they were calling for their community to be MORE like the SC2 community in reality.
Well if that's the case they definitely should have gone about it a different way. Either way I got my shits and giggles from this.
If anyone watches the segement, they're referencing SC2 community as a reference to claim that the Halo community is decaying and at its low, not bashing SC2 for the sake of SC2.
On December 05 2011 12:18 BirdKiller wrote: If anyone watches the segement, they're referencing SC2 community as a reference to claim that the Halo community is decaying and at its low, not bashing SC2 for the sake of SC2.
It's the mob mentality. Go to the General forum for any extent of time and you see it, hell, motbob even made a thread explicitly about not blowing things out of context and people still blew it out of context because they don't read/watch/whatever. They see a hyperbolic thread title, or they, instead of actually informing themselves, scroll down. They see the first, second, third reactions and just assume that's how they should react and then the ball gets rolling. Then this giant wheel of misinformation, ignorance, and immaturity just keeps on going until it explodes into something it isn't nor never meant to be, and some unfortunate people get banned.
And all of it could be avoided if people just watched the video initially, realized they weren't bashing SC2 but were essentially bashing their own game, if anything, and if they could learn to take a joke when they deal them out so much.
I think that this podcast is just a reflection of these guys' insecurities. "We dress better than Starcraft 2 players and more stylish". Really..?
While it may be a joke (though I wouldn't know who would find it funny), I think deep down it stems from their fear about the future of their own game.
I've known these guys since the days of Halo dominance in H2 and H3,and it is amazing to see how far the game has fallen, and themselves with it. Sure, I see their plight, and perhaps they are going about broadcasting it in the rights ways... I mean, isn't aggressive controversy at this day and age so much more valid? Proof of it is everywhere in pop culture. And hey, it got us to watch, and that's what they wanted. In the end, any publicity is good publicity. I just don't know if this will really help Halo.
On December 05 2011 11:20 GenoZStriker wrote: I can tell you did not watch the video at all and basically went off what Kennigit and Reddit went off on.
I saw the whole episode. They spent most of the video praising the Starcraft 2 community and how it has become the benchmark for where they want the Halo community to be and they even shit talk the Halo community for being babied by MLG and not doing shit. In fact a whole movement has started by the Halo community influenced by what the the Starcraft 2 community is doing right, because they respect the monster of an eSports game that it has become. But obviously we are just gonna go off on what they said in the first minute. Sure that part was a big dick waving but Jesus Christ man. Not something to throw a bitch fit about.other games, it doesn't mean the whole SC2 community is shitting on that scene. The Halo scene doesn't hate SC2.
Yeah... uh, GenoZStriker pretty much hit this right on topic. All I heard was respect, and just light joking about dressing up in the Starcraft 2 Community. If anything, they should've been more careful about the delivery of their topic, but nothing they said was even nearly offensive to the Starcraft community as what Starcraft 2 has done such as the shit I've heard about SC2 fans booing other gamers on their stages at MLG; thank god they didn't bring that topic to light.
Give this shit a break, and leave their community alone to develop their own thoughts, as the entire point of the video was that they did respect the Starcraft communities development.
And whats with the OP about other games dying and trying to bring up some topic on how it would feel to have our community die? What the do you think is happening with the Brood War community, and all the inconsiderate SC2 fans running around parading about it? Of course, that is if I generalized the SC2 community into a single entity, which I don't mean to say, but in some sense the Brood War community is on helluva a downhill slope.
In the end, this is kind of interesting in the aspect that a game with a completely different focus like Starcraft 2 is crossing paths with FPS games like Halo, and hopefully a nice overall esport community can develop from this.
Just sounded like a vent of frustration to me. I don't see what the big deal is. They aren't bagging on us; like he said, he's basically calling out Halo fans and trying to get some emotion out of them. Yeah?
the starcraft community berates almost every other game under the guise of "less skilled" its like when people hate on league of legends being worse than dota/hon when they don't even play moba games, they just jump on the bandwagon
and the most ironic part? they are doing this all when the same lines can be drawn between brood war and starcraft 2
like slasher said, support the games you like and respect the ones you don't, there are far more percentile of sc2 fans that shit on halo than halo people shit on sc2, especially when alot of the top sc2 pros have said time and time again how the other mlg game communities respect starcraft and even play it.
The Starcraft community is a bunch of unstylish nerds? Well at least most of us aren't 12 year old boys that tell eachother were going to rape eachother. (Which is exactly what they were complaining about.)
I do agree though on some points. We are egotistical, we are obsessed in a sense. But shit, I don't care if you call me egotistical. BW becamse a legitimate sport in another country, Halo is a game everybody plays when their gf isn't around. I would think SC is a better "game" then and I'm going to stick by that opinion.
On December 05 2011 11:40 LilClinkin wrote: I think these guys are an embarrassment to themselves. I don't know who they are in the Halo community, but as a first impression, what I see are a group of people who are trying to elevate themselves above another community (why?) by focusing on petty differences such as 'style'.
Honestly, who cares? They swear far too much as well. These guys may be some of the greatest Halo players (I don't know), but there is nothing professional in their conduct and it makes me feel ashamed to call myself a passionate gamer.
If you rise to the top of a community, you have to behave in a reasonable manner because you are an ambassador for that community. These guys represent themselves poorly.
When you get to a certain level in starcraft the coolness graph is a parabola and you start getting cool again! thats why SC Pros are actually the coolest people in the world.
they went on a rant about starcrafts player styles... most sc2 players are bad ass in their team uniforms and do you ever seem them out of uniform? no they try to trash talk that they don't do anything besides starcraft, why would anyone care that people are trying to insult you for being dedicated to something you love that takes dedication? it's just stupid and giving them attention is dumber
MEAAAN KNAW WHAT DA PROBLEM WIT SC PLAYAS IS? THEY AINT NO BORTHOS YO!
all dem so white or they white with some carmel on they face! and whats so despicable is that all this togetha, conseidering this, they aint even willin to act like brothas like us halo playas yo! and fo' this reaosn.. halo is the shiiet and sc2 is like watching some classical piano oh some shit. damn them white concerts ain ballin!
The guy with the beanie said you need to put a huge amount of time into Sc2 to be competitive?? not sure if srs, the games competitive on ladder at all levels.. including online daily tournaments.. and saying console is more casual.. i don't even..
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
+1 and not just halo.. but i dont wanna be warned again.
just a bunch of people talking about sc2 on a halo show
so quite frankly idc. ofc i disagree with them but they're joking around on a show trying to entertain people. if you asked them in a published interview, what do you think about sc2, they'll be like oh yeah it's a great game.
if you got a sc2 show to talk about halo we'd be like thats a joke, consoles a joke, and cs is way better.
I dont understand what they have against the gracket. Also, there are a lot of fashionable starcraft players. If anything I feel like the Halo community should be angry at bungie, for almost massacring their scene. I don't think anyone should be that upset about it, I think its fair to say starcraft requires a lot more time than halo. If anything, we should be upset that slasher is scene as a representation of the SC2 community.
On December 05 2011 12:38 puppykiller wrote: MEAAAN KNAW WHAT DA PROBLEM WIT SC PLAYAS IS? THEY AINT NO BORTHOS YO!
all dem so white or they white with some carmel on they face! and whats so despicable is that all this togetha, conseidering this, they aint even willin to act like brothas like us halo playas yo! and fo' this reaosn.. halo is the shiiet and sc2 is like watching some classical piano oh some shit. damn them white concerts ain ballin!
Is this seriously how they speak on that Vod in the OP? Gosh i'm glad i didn't watch it.
Poor guys, I didn't see much offensive about it at all if you consider that thier game has massively dropped in popularity compared to Starcraft, and they just need to find some way to help thier own community. Water off a ducks back, I say.
Yes, they bashed our dress style, basically as a small joke, but otherwise anything else mentioned about the starcraft community was pretty much respect for the growth of the community, skill of the players and most importantly the dedication of the fans. It's not really up to me deciding which sports become big, so if people are watching halo on stage, thats alright. I have sc2 to watch on up to 4 streams at a barcraft otherwise I go practice myself for my own local tournaments etc.
Could have been a better delivery, but I was really interested in hearing something from a different perspective instead of off TL. The jabs were minimal and nothing compared to how we bash console shooters.
So.... they're bashing on Starcraft because of style...? Honestly, I think that Starcraft is a lot more stylish than Halo. When do you see the Halo players come out in badass team uniforms? Maybe a few do, but only a few. Most that you see walk around in a casual t-shirt and shorts. Whenever you watch GSL and you see the players in their uniforms you get the greatest nerd chills. Their uniforms are a symbol of their power and bad-assery. It also brings a certain sense of organization and order while Halo, due to their amazing sense of 'style', looks and feels a lot more sloppy when you watch it. I understand it was a joke, but it kind of backfired on them, I think. :/
On December 05 2011 12:36 bounca wrote: they went on a rant about starcrafts player styles... most sc2 players are bad ass in their team uniforms and do you ever seem them out of uniform? no they try to trash talk that they don't do anything besides starcraft, why would anyone care that people are trying to insult you for being dedicated to something you love that takes dedication? it's just stupid and giving them attention is dumber
On December 05 2011 12:43 PolskaGora wrote: So.... they're bashing on Starcraft because of style...? Honestly, I think that Starcraft is a lot more stylish than Halo. When do you see the Halo players come out in badass team uniforms? Maybe a few do, but only a few. Most that you see walk around in a casual t-shirt and shorts. Whenever you watch GSL and you see the players in their uniforms you get the greatest nerd chills. Their uniforms are a symbol of their power and bad-assery. It also brings a certain sense of organization and order while Halo, due to their amazing sense of 'style', looks and feels a lot more sloppy when you watch it.
I see both of you, like many others, have not even bothered to watch the entire segment (the first 10 minutes). The reaction between those who watched on the first few minutes vs. those who watched the entire segment contrasts a lot, and you have to wonder why.
From your response, it's clear you've only seen a few minutes of it, whether it's because you had a short attention span or just got enough sound bites to post here, I don't know, but you should watch further because you're just trolling yourself.
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
actually this is an opinion i share as well. halo is a joke of an esport.
Only partly in, but I think a person could go two ways with this. You can get your pitchforks out, or maybe consider if there's a little bit of truth in it.
And honestly, what they're saying isn't much different then one of the SotG's discussion. Specifically that SC2 players could pay a little more attention to public image. SotG was specifically talking about player interviews, but it's a similar idea if only a little more combative. See their are gamers and then there is people like Boxer in BW who was an ambassador outside of the game. He was both good and charismatic. So, I'd say take what they say for what's worth, but don't get to all bent out of shape.
Huh, at 12min, that middle guy actually moved on from Halo to SC2 and LoL and has only moved back to Halo to fire them up a bit. So I suspect he's a little more sympathetic than might be though from the first 5 min.
16min- middle guy talking about mad respect for SC to fans walking into bars with their 15 nerd fans to get barcraft started. Yeah, nothing to get worked up about.
Also, this has nothing to do with Halo getting dethroned by SC2. Most of their talk is haranguing fans of Halo to start projects to be ready if/when MLG drops Halo. They're pretty realistic about the state of Halo.
While I don't agree and think those Halo guys are acting silly and sound a bit jealous of Starcraft 2's succes, overshadowing their game for MLG... Using Jinro as an example of style is even more silly, Those sunglasses :D. Nada works though, I'm on a horse.
Edit ; Jinro if you happen to read this : I think you're awesome man, I mean no offense!
On December 05 2011 12:38 puppykiller wrote: MEAAAN KNAW WHAT DA PROBLEM WIT SC PLAYAS IS? THEY AINT NO BORTHOS YO!
all dem so white or they white with some carmel on they face! and whats so despicable is that all this togetha, conseidering this, they aint even willin to act like brothas like us halo playas yo! and fo' this reaosn.. halo is the shiiet and sc2 is like watching some classical piano oh some shit. damn them white concerts ain ballin!
Is this seriously how they speak on that Vod in the OP? Gosh i'm glad i didn't watch it.
Yes this is very similar to how they talked, I found it funny for about 5 mins but then it was just annoying x.x
Console gamers getting butthurt cuz pc games require skill :/ That being said bashing other games and communities does not promote a good image for either parties..
They say they're nerdy too. At no point in this are they hating on SC2. They even say that they aren't hating, that they're just talking shit cause they want to talk some shit. One guy says he is only talking shit because he wants to light a fire under the Halo community's ass.
About the topic, we are in control of the future of eSports. It's our viewership, our community, that is driving this unprecedented boom in eSports in general. The more games being played at MLG and other events, the better off we are. The more we watch other games, the more that other games will have a chance to shine. eSports isn't just about SC2, it's about people playing video games professionally, and it's a dream of so many people to be able to do this. We are in a position, due to our huge numbers, to keep that dream alive, to nurture it, to make it a reality. It falls on our shoulders to make this happen. Don't you think we should?
They're really going to call out SC2 players on style?
What Halo team promotes its own line of clothing? Primezzang
Lol . . let's compare American wiggers to Korean flower boys guys.
Anyways, I'm not really personally offended. Those three Halo people are just being silly and showing how immature their community is if they really are forefront figures. Can you guys imagine Day9 or Mr Chae making fun of other esports communities just to get attention?
what re we upset about watched the first 6-7 minutes. Nothing was said that was particularly bad. They said starcraft guys do less otherstuff. yeah probably, tahts kinda the thing is that starcraft is deeper so you have to play more to be the best.
Who cares about the style thing? thats by person to person. hopefully sc2 will get a firebathero soon or several : o
The first 10 minutes was all fun and games, don't be so simple minded and watch more of the video. These dudes care and have passion for their game, just like us. There might be a bit of friction between these two communities but it isn't something to get mad about, we should extend our love and let esports grow as a whole.
While I don't agree and think those Halo guys are acting silly and sound a bit jealous of Starcraft 2's succes, overshadowing their game for MLG... Using Jinro as an example of style is even more silly, Those sunglasses :D. Nada works though, I'm on a horse.
Edit ; Jinro if you happen to read this : I think you're awesome man, I mean no offense!
Yeah...them plastic biker shades are so 2000. But it's a pretty funny pic
I follow starcraft 2 and FGC very closely. I give my respects toward quake/counter-strike. These games are at the top of their genres. Although all the series have had some casualization the skill ceiling is still out of reach to 99.9% of the community. I am disappointed in the console FPS overshadowing the more respectable games. The problem is that console FPS start semi-casual/semi-competitive (Halo1>2>3>reach) and each new game makes it even more casual. While going from broodwar/SF2/1.6 is going from SERIOUS COMPETITIVE to just slightly less.
Right, I think it's safe to say everyone mindlessly bashing these guys either did not watch the video at all, or only watched the first minute or two and took everything they said seriously. Christ guys, if anything, they are bashing their own game if you really want to break it down. You're acting more like "apes" and "tools" and "immature pricks" than they are.
If you want to overblow this into something it's not, take it to reddit or 4chan or wherever you crazy kids go these days. This really isn't the place for it.
1. Right off the bat, one minute in: The middle guy thinks that the StarCraft pros don't have style or know how to dress. From Nada's body to team uniforms to Ret always dressing like a baller (to TLO's sense of style), I don't see him having a case there, and I actually think this is pretty hilarious. Who cares who dresses better? You can dress better; we'll still take all your empty seats at MLG.
2. I have no qualms about being a video game "nerd", in that sense. There's probably different degrees (how much do you play? how obsessed are you? how much do you know about the scene?) I wouldn't say everyone who's ever tried playing StarCraft is a nerd because of it, but if you play a decent amount, you could certainly be considered a nerd in some (non-negative) respect. Sounds fine with me.
3. StarCraft is a much harder game than Halo, and so it requires more practice, but even the famous Korean teams play soccer and work out and occasionally do other things. But obviously to be the best, you need to donate a lot of time towards your professional career, the same way you would for any job. So Halo players have more free time than other gamers. What does that actually mean? Your job is easier? (I don't know; you're saying it, not me.)
4. They're putting us down to "light up their community"? Yeah, that's a really healthy way of going about doing it. We don't need a rivalry, nor would it make sense for there to exist one (RTS =/= FPS). It's a pity that their game series is aging- and it had a great run- but I don't see this as a way to re-establish themselves.
5. Then they start ranting about Halo fans... and I don't know (or really care) what's going on with them and the fans, but I find it a bit hypocritical how they pretend to care so much about their fans when they throw other gaming pros under the bus, but then turn around and shit all over their fans too. They couldn't be less angry at everyone. So I don't really take anything they say to heart. They're venting, and their points are either unnecessary or hilarious. And they clearly have time to organize all of this, because they're not StarCraft players. Don't worry, taht's just Halo.
There are idiots in every community, and this thread pretty much shows it. Whatever individual merits that the games may have, they do not carry over to the players. People don't automatically become superior human beings because they prefer SC2 to Halo.
On December 05 2011 13:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: You can dress better; we'll still take all your empty seats at MLG.
People make little one liners like this, and then only a few lines later, make insults to them for being immature, tools, or unnecessarily hostile towards our game and community.
Hypocrisy at its best.
On December 05 2011 13:04 Newbistic wrote: There are idiots in every community, and this thread pretty much shows it. Whatever individual merits that the games may have, they do not carry over to the players. People don't automatically become superior human beings because they prefer SC2 to Halo.
Look, if you actually watch the video they do give accolades to the SC2 fans for being ambitious and doing things such as barcraft. I mean the beginning is just said in a light hearted manner so get over it. I mean if you want to look at the dress of fans from halo and starcraft at mlg, well it is very different.
On December 05 2011 13:06 GGQ wrote: I couldn't find a single thing to be mad about. They made jokes about a stereotype that has a ring of truth to it. No big deal.
Later they commend Starcraft fans for having passion to start things like Barcraft and they encourage halo fans to be a little nerdier like that.
The show got pretty funny later on when the one dude revealed the pranks that he'd pulled on the other two from years back lol
Halo takes less practice than SC2 because the players are a joke, they don't even practice full-time. Maybe if they did practice more and raised the skill gap in their own game it would be more popular, rather than treating it like a hobby.
Personally i don't really care about if Halo stays on the scene or not, didn't do it before the movie, didn't do it after. Thats because i think Halo is probably the least entertaining e-sport to watch, i rather watch any other FPS, preferably quake or CS. Honestly tho, 95% of my e-sport interest is in SC2, rest is in Dota/Hon.
It's up to the folks of each respective community to tend to their own game. Do Ice-hockey players fans care about the soccer scene? Unless they are interested in it aswell, making them fans of both. I don't care if any other games are at MLG, it really doesn't affect me. I just hope that Starcraft keeps being big, and that it has a growing fanbase.
Seriously guys, watch more than the first four minutes. They actually said a lot of good things about SC and how they need to learn from us. We have active fans who set up Barcrafts. We have very visible personalities and celebrities who are paid to travel around the world. We have a kick-ass community. We will survive without MLG. In fact at this point I don't think MLG can survive without us. But can Halo survive MLG pulling the plug? Apparently thats the debate going on over there right now.
The guys on that show talked up everything that the SC community has achieved and how they want to do the same thing with their own.You gotta respect that. The fact that the *best* thing they could think of to rag on about us is fashion sense says alot. (And there's some truth to that; Western teams need to raise their uniforms up to Korean pro team level. Comparing Slayers' bomber jackets to FXO's crappy iron-on Tshirts makes me wince.)
I gotta say though, it made me laugh when the first SC2 personality they thought of was Slasher. He's like the least-SC2 SC2 personality out there. I thought it was cool they all knew WhiteRa though, I can't say that I know the same about any Halo player.
On December 05 2011 13:06 Headnoob wrote: Halo has auto-aim right?
i wonder how that can make a game competitive.
On December 05 2011 13:07 schmutttt wrote: Halo takes less practice than SC2 because the players are a joke, they don't even practice full-time. Maybe if they did practice more and raised the skill gap in their own game it would be more popular, rather than treating it like a hobby.
How is this even remotely relevant to the topic at hand?
Is this really how the fucking community, on Teamliquid of all places, is going to react to this kind of stuff? I can understand if this is reddit, 4chan, or whatever. I wouldn't mind at all, actually, in those cases. However, Teamliquid, a place prized for it's intelligent community -- this is our response to this video? Something that was initially a joke, and then turned into them PRAISING our community for being so passionate, and then scolding their OWN community for being so complacent and shit. They were using us as an example to better themselves, and made some jokes at us in the process that were pretty damn funny.
And the way we react to that, as a community is to insult them, berate them, and downplay their game because it doesn't live up to our arbitrary standards of what makes a competitive game? Are you serious? How much more insecure could you be, if I may dare go to that length?
I'd rather have those people as our community than most of the people in this thread, if it's any indication of intelligence and maturity. At least they are proactively trying to better themselves and not being as incredibly arrogant and hypocritical as the stuff being said in this thread.
On December 05 2011 13:06 GGQ wrote: I couldn't find a single thing to be mad about. They made jokes about a stereotype that has a ring of truth to it. No big deal.
Later they commend Starcraft fans for having passion to start things like Barcraft and they encourage halo fans to be a little nerdier like that.
The show got pretty funny later on when the one dude revealed the pranks that he'd pulled on the other two from years back lol
If by the prank you mean that he stole some cheque and headphones, that's just fucked up imo. I'd be so pissed at that guy, and totally lose respect aswell. Who steals that from a gaming convention? That's really low...
On December 05 2011 13:06 Headnoob wrote: Halo has auto-aim right?
i wonder how that can make a game competitive.
Eh I have never really played halo outside of messing around with a few friends, but I watched some of their games during MLG downtime and it seemed like a pretty good competitive game. The CTF reminded me a lot of MOBA style play, where the teamwork is more important or on par with individual skill.
On December 05 2011 12:57 InvalidID wrote: Nothing particularly bad was said, in fact they seem like sc2 fans.
These guys are trolling hard, Nexy used to run an SC Tourney several months ago. These guys helped build MLG to what it was before Starcraft took off. A lot of our community is too elitist to appreciate that MLG is based on the foundation of almost ten years of console gaming.
The real problem is that the console gaming community is absolutely horrible. These guys spent half the video telling the halo fans to do more stuff to help the community, to emulate the SC fans and help boost the profile of their dying game. As for Halo itself, it's such a shame that the multiplayer in Combat Evolved 10th Anniversary still uses the Reach engine, there could have been a lot of potential in going back to a shiny Halo 1.
Also to the person who mentioned PrimeZZang, Walshy (The second most successful Halo player) started his own clothing company, does that match that?
Ummm, who cares? Its not like they are saying that Halo is better than SC they are just talking about clothes, they even say that they like SC. Now if we got idra talking about Halo they might have something to complain about.
On December 05 2011 13:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Here are my reactions to the OP's video:
1. Right off the bat, one minute in: The middle guy thinks that the StarCraft pros don't have style or know how to dress. From Nada's body to team uniforms to Ret always dressing like a baller (to TLO's sense of style), I don't see him having a case there, and I actually think this is pretty hilarious. Who cares who dresses better? You can dress better; we'll still take all your empty seats at MLG.
2. I have no qualms about being a video game "nerd", in that sense. There's probably different degrees (how much do you play? how obsessed are you? how much do you know about the scene?) I wouldn't say everyone who's ever tried playing StarCraft is a nerd because of it, but if you play a decent amount, you could certainly be considered a nerd in some (non-negative) respect. Sounds fine with me.
3. StarCraft is a much harder game than Halo, and so it requires more practice, but even the famous Korean teams play soccer and work out and occasionally do other things. But obviously to be the best, you need to donate a lot of time towards your professional career, the same way you would for any job. So Halo players have more free time than other gamers. What does that actually mean? Your job is easier? (I don't know; you're saying it, not me.)
4. They're putting us down to "light up their community"? Yeah, that's a really healthy way of going about doing it. We don't need a rivalry, nor would it make sense for there to exist one (RTS =/= FPS). It's a pity that their game series is aging- and it had a great run- but I don't see this as a way to re-establish themselves.
5. Then they start ranting about Halo fans... and I don't know (or really care) what's going on with them and the fans, but I find it a bit hypocritical how they pretend to care so much about their fans when they throw other gaming pros under the bus, but then turn around and shit all over their fans too. They couldn't be less angry at everyone. So I don't really take anything they say to heart. They're venting, and their points are either unnecessary or hilarious. And they clearly have time to organize all of this, because they're not StarCraft players. Don't worry, taht's just Halo.
1. Yea I agree with you. 2. I think what they're saying is that it takes more dedication to play SC2 than it does to play halo. Halo is a much more casual game. 3. Yea they basically said starcraft is a bigger investment as well. And if you know nothing about their community, do you really expect them to know the starcraft community in depth. 4 and 5. They're trying to encourage people to make more content for halo. This video is very anecdotal, if you listen to some of their other videos they actually praise the SC community for being much more dedicated to their game.
All I heard was that guy saying how much better Halo was because their players have more style and spend more money on things... Yeah, maybe we just don't give a fuck or maybe we don't flaunt our 50k winnings that our pros make. Yea most of the best players are korean, americans don't know what the fucks going on over there. Nestea probably is a super star and drives a mazagatti, fuck we don't know so how would they? idiots. Not even mentioning idras gf or his sick commercial with the car, or TLO or all the other great personalities that give them style. SC2 personalities don't need cool clothes to make them cool.
That's my rant, my personal opinion is that I support all video games. I really enjoy watching Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Capcom and Gears of War. I also play those and I play COD/DOTA2 sometimes but I really can't watch COD, DOTA2 or Halo even though I respect and sometimes play those games. I think esports, any kind of video game is good and talking shit about each other just demotes us and perpetuates the cycle of never being mainstream. Maybe there really are guys out there who don't want this to be mainstream because they want to be hipsters forever... I dunno
But don't ever admit one game is harder than another, maybe Halo doesn't require multi tasking but it requires more precision that SC2 doesn't. You wouldn't say chess is easier because it's not played in real time would you? This is the same for any game, some may be easier to master but playing and winning at the highest level is something completely different.
On December 05 2011 13:14 emc wrote: All I heard was that guy saying how much better Halo was because their players have more style and spend more money on things...
Then perhaps you should "hear" the rest of the video.
This is the most inane statement ever said on any discussion ever. Not yours specifically, just that sentiment of "all I heard was..." crap. You're literally admitting, "I haven't heard the entire point or listened to the entire thing but I'm going to base my opinion on cherry picking what I hear in the beginning."
Come on dude.
Why are people so willfully ignorant is beyond me. These guys are just pissed off that their game, which used to highlight MLG all the time, is suddenly overthrown by our game in less than a year. I mean, look at the dramatic change that happened. How do you expect there not to be a bit of an uproar? And it wasn't even an uproar. It was more of them saying "Look at the Starcraft 2 community, look at how successful, passionate, and great they are. Why the fuck aren't we doing that?"
Starcraft players are generally more nerdy than halo players you can't argue with that. It's all in good fun though, these guys clearly have respect for the game.
On December 05 2011 13:14 emc wrote: All I heard was that guy saying how much better Halo was because their players have more style and spend more money on things...
Then perhaps you should "hear" the rest of the video.
This is the most inane statement ever said on any discussion ever. Not yours specifically, just that sentiment of "all I heard was..." crap. You're literally admitting, "I haven't heard the entire point or listened to the entire thing but I'm going to base my opinion on cherry picking what I hear in the beginning."
Come on dude.
because I'm not going to waste my time? That wasn't all I heard, I listened to the 10 minutes but decided not to comment on that, because our other posters seemed to have got it covered. You aren't getting on the OP's case because all he told us to listen to was the first 10 minutes?
did you not just perhaps choose to read only my first sentence and just talk shit about how I'm ignorant? I could really care less
On December 05 2011 13:14 emc wrote: All I heard was that guy saying how much better Halo was because their players have more style and spend more money on things...
Then perhaps you should "hear" the rest of the video.
This is the most inane statement ever said on any discussion ever. Not yours specifically, just that sentiment of "all I heard was..." crap. You're literally admitting, "I haven't heard the entire point or listened to the entire thing but I'm going to base my opinion on cherry picking what I hear in the beginning."
Come on dude.
because I'm not going to waste my time? That wasn't all I heard, I listened to the 10 minutes but decided not to comment on that, because our other posters seemed to have got it covered. You aren't getting on the OP's case because all he told us to listen to was the first 10 minutes?
So you're not going to waste your time watching the rest of the video to formulate an intellectual opinion...but then you say you watched the entire 10 minutes....and are making an opinion on the matter on a cherry picked handful of quotes taken completely out of context in the beginning of the video without reference to the rest of the video.
On December 05 2011 13:22 StarStruck wrote: Fruscainte,
It's their problem; not our's.
It IS our problem when we take such offense to someone even daring to make a friendly jab at our precious game to the point of the insulting, ignorance, and utter disrespect and immaturity going on in this thread. If this is how we deal with a video explicitly praising us, I can't wait to see how we react when we get legitimate criticism.
I'm joking, I actually can wait to see that. I really do hope I never do have to see that, because I'm scared.
I feel like I am watching a Junior high school clique meeting. Where does the SC community not claim we are nerds. The word nerd is part of a ton of our unique phrases like "nerd chills" "nerd baller", etc. I'm really confused as to what point they are trying to make. Perhaps next they will accuse us of playing keyboards and warn us about denying it.
As to people trying to point out the non nerdy pastimes SC players have, just don't ask Incontrol who probably does more nerdy stuff in his non SC time than he does during his SC time according to state of the game.
It is good to know that at least they recognize how awesome White-Ra is.
On December 05 2011 13:21 Kolvacs wrote: They are obviously biased.
And so are you.
What's your point?
Yeah, but i'm not talking shit about other games. They are obviously biased so their opinions are stupid when it comes to talking about other games. They will obviously shit on any other game that threatens their game.
On December 05 2011 13:14 emc wrote: All I heard was that guy saying how much better Halo was because their players have more style and spend more money on things...
Then perhaps you should "hear" the rest of the video.
This is the most inane statement ever said on any discussion ever. Not yours specifically, just that sentiment of "all I heard was..." crap. You're literally admitting, "I haven't heard the entire point or listened to the entire thing but I'm going to base my opinion on cherry picking what I hear in the beginning."
Come on dude.
because I'm not going to waste my time? That wasn't all I heard, I listened to the 10 minutes but decided not to comment on that, because our other posters seemed to have got it covered. You aren't getting on the OP's case because all he told us to listen to was the first 10 minutes?
So you're not going to waste your time watching the rest of the video to formulate an intellectual opinion...but then you say you watched the entire 10 minutes....and are making an opinion on the matter on a cherry picked handful of quotes taken completely out of context in the beginning of the video without reference to the rest of the video.
I'm so confused right now, I can't even explain.
because other people in the thread already described shit perfectly and I didn't need to? All I WANTED to comment on was the superficial bullshit. My actual reasoning for posting was to defend that halo actually takes a ton of skill to compete at the highest levels, just like every game. I'd rather everyone get along so we can show how legitimate esports is. Yet all you did was quote one small sentence and ignored me. I really don't care if you think I'm ignorant based on a forum post and quite wasting time preaching.
On December 05 2011 13:21 Kolvacs wrote: They are obviously biased.
And so are you.
What's your point?
Yeah, but i'm not talking shit about other games. They are obviously biased so their opinions are very obsolete when it comes to talking about other games. They will obviously shit on any other game that threatens their game.
Pull the stick out of your ass.
Oh, but everyone else sure is.
On December 05 2011 13:06 Headnoob wrote: Halo has auto-aim right?
i wonder how that can make a game competitive.
On December 05 2011 13:07 schmutttt wrote: Halo takes less practice than SC2 because the players are a joke, they don't even practice full-time. Maybe if they did practice more and raised the skill gap in their own game it would be more popular, rather than treating it like a hobby.
On December 05 2011 12:53 Swwww wrote: Console gamers getting butthurt cuz pc games require skill :/ That being said bashing other games and communities does not promote a good image for either parties..
Too lazy to go back past page 8 to find even more glorious quotes proving my point.
Unfortunately, despite how much of a shining bright star of sunshine and maturity you are in this community, when everyone else is mindlessly bashing this game and this community for explicitly praising us but making a crack at our fashion sense (which was hilarious, mind you, in my opinion), I'm going to address the issue to the community when I make a post about it.
On December 05 2011 13:22 StarStruck wrote: Fruscainte,
It's their problem; not our's.
It IS our problem when we take such offense to someone even daring to make a friendly jab at our precious game to the point of the insulting, ignorance, and utter disrespect and immaturity going on in this thread. If this is how we deal with a video explicitly praising us, I can't wait to see how we react when we get legitimate criticism.
I'm joking, I actually can wait to see that. I really do hope I never do have to see that, because I'm scared.
Correction: there are a select few who are choosing to make it their problem when they have no need to.
Like I said, if those guys from the podcast have a problem with our community. It's their problem; not ours. There is no need to take any offense to what they say as they have no weight.
On December 05 2011 13:22 StarStruck wrote: Fruscainte,
It's their problem; not our's.
It IS our problem when we take such offense to someone even daring to make a friendly jab at our precious game to the point of the insulting, ignorance, and utter disrespect and immaturity going on in this thread. If this is how we deal with a video explicitly praising us, I can't wait to see how we react when we get legitimate criticism.
I'm joking, I actually can wait to see that. I really do hope I never do have to see that, because I'm scared.
Correction: there are a select few who are choosing to make it their problem when they have no need to.
Like I said, if those guys from the podcast have a problem with our community. It's their problem; not ours. There is no need to take any offense to what they say as they have no weight.
How you choose to deal with it is up to you.
They have NO problem with our community. If people actually watched the video, they PRAISE our community for being so passionate and successful, and that they should take after us.
Christ, I'm starting to think NOBODY watched the video or something.
I'm gonna go laugh my ass off to the Lions some more before I blow a gasket =/
I was actually considering looking into the Halo community before I saw this. They were either trolling, or are stupid beyond the English language's ability to describe. "Oh we're all nerds, but those STARCRAFT nerds have no fashion sense at all!" It was pretty funny, though. Anyways, we shouldn't help them because of multiple factors, such as this being the way of Esports and that helping them would be hard if at all possible and even then we would just be carrying their scene. I can sympathize with them, though. Watching something like Starcraft fall apart would be nightmarish, especially considering that, I consider it the best Esport at the moment due to it's extremely high skill cap with multiple required skillsets, not to mention the spectator friendliness of it. Personally, I think their loss might be Esports gain if Tribes: Ascend can take the scene. That game is one of the better FPS's out there in terms of Esports friendliness.
EDIT: I only watched the first 10 minutes of the video due to the comment in the OP that said the first 10 minutes would suffice. However, if someone can refute the OP's claim, then could he please remove it?
On December 05 2011 13:21 Kolvacs wrote: They are obviously biased.
And so are you.
What's your point?
Yeah, but i'm not talking shit about other games. They are obviously biased so their opinions are very obsolete when it comes to talking about other games. They will obviously shit on any other game that threatens their game.
Pull the stick out of your ass.
Oh, but everyone else sure is.
Yeah, so what's your point? Or are you arguing just for the sake of arguing?
On December 05 2011 13:22 StarStruck wrote: Fruscainte,
It's their problem; not our's.
It IS our problem when we take such offense to someone even daring to make a friendly jab at our precious game to the point of the insulting, ignorance, and utter disrespect and immaturity going on in this thread. If this is how we deal with a video explicitly praising us, I can't wait to see how we react when we get legitimate criticism.
I'm joking, I actually can wait to see that. I really do hope I never do have to see that, because I'm scared.
Correction: there are a select few who are choosing to make it their problem when they have no need to.
Like I said, if those guys from the podcast have a problem with our community. It's their problem; not ours. There is no need to take any offense to what they say as they have no weight.
How you choose to deal with it is up to you.
They have NO problem with our community. If people actually watched the video, they PRAISE our community for being so passionate and successful, and that they should take after us.
Christ, I'm starting to think NOBODY watched the video or something.
I'm gonna go laugh my ass off to the Lions some more before I blow a gasket =/
Have a great night all.
It goes both ways bud. It's not a one-way street-- same rule applies to everyone else.
On December 05 2011 13:19 ThE_OsToJiY wrote: Starcraft players are generally more nerdy than halo players you can't argue with that. It's all in good fun though, these guys clearly have respect for the game.
Agreed. They didn't shit on sc2, all they said was that sc2 players are more nerdy than halo players which is pretty much true. Harmless conversation between some chill guys.
Better dressed, better looking that the SC2 community? You know what they say about winning the Special Olympics, right?
Besides, I seriously doubt any Halo progamers are better looking that Boxer, Yellow, Stork, and Reach back in the day. Those were some handsome nerds. And of course, there's Nada...
Back to the original topic. Starcraft is not just another e-sports game. Starcraft has a legacy that is completely independent of the western e-sports scene. Starcraft isn't just a big room in the e-sports house. Starcraft has its own mansion, down the street from e-sports. A meteor could smash into e-sports into tiny flaming bits and starcraft would just see a plume of smoke in the distance.
I don't care about e-sports, I care about Starcraft.
I only did watch the first 10 minutes or so as the OP suggested. What I saw was a few guys that were crazy passionate about their game and I respect that big time. I didn't really hear any slams against Starcraft (aside from the style thing..but that was just goofin'.) I see where they are coming from. They are kind of dying out and when you love something that much, it's hard to see that happen. They seem like some cool dudes trying to rally people together to save their community and they get all the respect for that.
I'm not a fan of the FPS genre, personally. However, I am trying to branch out into other worlds of eSports because I want to make that connection and find something else I potentially could love. I hope these guys succeed in bringing attention. There's plenty of room for all of us.
This is a response I put on the MLGPro.com forums. I know these guys are trying to motivate the Halo players, but there's a correct way of doing that.
Anyways, I posted on the videos and Twitter, but I feel like I haven't made myself clear. Look, I don't mind him calling Starcraft 2 players "nerds" on anything like that, it's the stuff he said previous and after that. Like talking about us not playing to much.. Starcraft 2 is a serious game, it's global. Korea, Europe, NA, SEA, we have multiple servers because the game is that big. So if people are trying to reach their goals or their dreams, they have to put in effort every single day.
I also find it a bit disrespectful towards the Halo community. Does your argument mean that the Halo players just put in one hour of work and become pros? Look at T2, I haven't seen anyone work as hard as him, yet this guy could be titled the "no life" that you titled Starcraft 2 players. Everything you said in the video about dressing is completely irrelevant and I'm not even going to go on with the topic of that, but like I tweeted you, I have so many pairs of Jordans but I'm not as good as Idra, because in the end that's all that matters.
Lastly, stop bashing other communities, even League of Legends. You talk about you fight the AI for thirty minutes and then you attack. What? Have you played the game? All you did is watch your girlfriend, which no offense but I'm pretty sure she isn't high level if your assuming you wait thirty minutes to attack. You have junglers, AD Carrys, Tanks, and AP Carrys. Every single one plays a role. Even in 2 minutes into the game you can plan a gank, and a push. Every game is different, but to advertise Halo, by bashing other communities is immature and stupid.
I've played Halo CE - Halo Reach. I love the Ogres, and I remember the dominance of Final Boss back in the days. I would never put the game down, I even went to MLG D.C when Idra first came and took the title from HuK. The lesson you need to learn from this ignorant video you made is, although you might be joking, some others can take it more serious. All you did is make your community look childish..
Woah dudes, I didn't realize spending $150 on stupid shoes made you cooler than someone who doesn't.
My eyes have been opened!
Also I didn't realize that a game that takes more practice is less cool. So I applaud these Halo fellows for showing me the true way.
That said I don't really get the point of this thread, they specifically stated that the entire point of this was to light a fire under THEIR OWN community, and "throwing starcraft fans under the bus" as one person put it (i wouldn't even call it that) is just their way of doing it and I have no problem with it.
I wouldve stopped when this one guys was shouting "WE ARE JUST TALKIN SHIT MAN" in some kind of gangsta slang but i forced myself to go on. A little bit later i couldnt bare it anymore at "150$ for nike clothing". Sorry! Cant do it!
If they were doing it just for the trolls sake i applause them for doing a good job by confirming every stereotypical thing i think of when it comes to console gamers...
This is so stupid lol. This whole arguing about whether or not we are "nerdy" is just fucking immature and ludicrous. Stop categorizing people by their interests and be proud of what you do. Yeah sure, we like things that have been deemed "nerdy" by popular culture, but WHO GIVES A FUCK. Say what you want about StarCraft and StarCraft fans, but pick something sensible and significant to criticize, and do so in a sensible way, no need to senselessly bash people personally for doing what they love.
Also, a lot of StarCraft FANS do a TON of other things outside of StarCraft. We don't all play 12 hours a day like Huk or IdrA or whoever, they're pros and that's why they do it. What do the best baseball players do every day? They play fucking baseball lol. That's why they are the best. They work hard to be the best at what they do and they love it, what's wrong with that?
I feel like these guys are good guys, their just trying to create some competition so that Halo doesn't roll over and die now that something bigger has come along, and I think that is great. Halo isn't my game but it is some people's and I want to see all eSports grow, not just StarCraft. I don't know if they know, but most of us StarCraft fans do want that.
I'll support the games i like to watch, and if that means other games that i don't like to watch get knocked off or eclipsed over in circuits and tournies, thats fine with me. If BW/SC2 or the other games that i liked were knocked off, would I be upset? Yeah, but I wouldn't complain or anything. The game still exists, and i enjoy it. I'll just keep playing.
Anyone taking offense from this video seriously needs to get out more.
They're just joking around. It's just some friendly shit talking. They even go out of their way to make the point that they're just trying to fire up the Halo community (see 5:00).
As for what our relationship should be to other games and other communities... I'm not really sure what all needs to be said. Support what you enjoy. Survival of the fittest baby. Games that are fun to watch and make good spectator sports will get more attention, and esports in general will get better.
Despite the fact that I've played a lot of Halo and have NEVER played Quake, I enjoy watching Quake WAY more. Some games just work better as esports. Just support what you enjoy, and respect people who support what THEY enjoy.
This is the video that has inspired this thread. If you can't view it, it is basically 3 notable identities in the halo community discussing their thoughts on starcraft in general, and most are just plain offensive and cheap shots at our game (most are in the first 10 minutes so that is all you have to watch to get the general idea).
This has virtually all stemmed from MLG in particular, and the total domination of the scene SC2 brought with it. Halo fans are feeling the pressure to even sustain their game through next year
There are a coupe of questions that arise from this video, such as how do we as a community take this? Do we sympathize with them and try to co operate and help their cause, or remain on the path we are on and continue to drive these sort of games out of the MLG spotlight? Is there even room to share with games like these anymore?
Do we as a community helping e sports forward, encourage all games or our game?
I think this is a very relevant discussion point, and I would also like to put forward my opinion, that although it is sad some games have fallen from their prime, at the end of the day you take the game with the bigger viewing audience, and right now it is starcraft 2. An interesting point to think about is, what if League of Legends and Dota2 all of a sudden become the only game for e sports, and everything else becomes irrelevant. How would you feel, to see the community you know and love, fall from its peak. This is where these people are coming from, but I think unfortunately it is a business, and the most views is where e sports goes
How do you guys react to a video like this, what does it mean to you, what would you like to see done?
EDIT: oh private vid means you guys cant see it! did not realise I will work on the quotes and have them ready asap
If SC2 has eclipsed the Halo community then it's completely swallowed the non-Korean BW one. It seems kind of silly to me to be worrying what Halo fans are thinking when no one cares at all that this is the first time since its inception that WCG won't have a BW event. At least if Halo fades out these guys will still be able to proudly call themselves Halo fans instead of being limited to 10 minutes of nostalgia a week on State of the Game.
I watched the first 10 minutes or so, and I'll grant that their lack of articulation makes it pretty fucking hard to figure out where they're going with all of this, but it seems to me that it boils down to wanting for their community what sc2 has built for its community. They're even trying to start a video podcast show, like the ones we have.
Transcending the bullshit, it was actually a HUGE compliment.
On December 05 2011 13:54 genius_man16 wrote: Woah dudes, I didn't realize spending $150 on stupid shoes made you cooler than someone who doesn't.
My eyes have been opened!
Also I didn't realize that a game that takes more practice is less cool. So I applaud these Halo fellows for showing me the true way.
That said I don't really get the point of this thread, they specifically stated that the entire point of this was to light a fire under THEIR OWN community, and "throwing starcraft fans under the bus" as one person put it (i wouldn't even call it that) is just their way of doing it and I have no problem with it.
I know right? THey said they look cool and like Navy and shit while playing a sci-fi game lol
I can't take the first 10 minutes too seriously. They are just talking about their own community's issues and compliment SC2's necessary skill level to be competitive. And they talk about nerds with style and so many people in this thread are actually refuting their ridiculous statements.
This "Support everything that calls itself esports without questioning" has to stop. While I hardly ever watch competetive counterstrike, I have the utmost respect for the game and its scene, and I'm happy when it is featured by big tournaments. However I have zero respect for console shooters and games like LoL (and I certainly don't mean moba games in general), therefor I will continue being a free silver member as long as my MLG membership would pay for those games.
There's literally 4 mins joking around about style, and the rest is bashing Halo players for being lazy. Halo is dying because people don't support it. They are just asking for people to support it.
The first part is just joking around and people are taking this way too seriously.
On December 05 2011 14:24 Spaceneil8 wrote: People should listen to more of the video.
There's literally 4 mins joking around about style, and the rest is bashing Halo players for being lazy. Halo is dying because people don't support it. They are just asking for people to support it.
The first part is just joking around and people are taking this way too seriously.
They stop at the 4 minutes is the problem. they're clearly joking and people here are too soft-skinned about it. They clearly don't believe the shit they're saying either, and it's obvious they're more disturbed about their community than they are pissed about ours.
LOL, these guys joke around and troll and then get serious. Lol it's kinda funny. Why can't gamers join? It's like a catch 22 for these guys. They complain about halo being ot noticable and then they bash starcraft for the gamers playing all day? Thats what art is, complete devotion. There kinda saying they want halo to be a huge e.sport but they aknowledge it's just a game. And I think Halo is probally 2nd skill required game where as call of duty is just fast reaction.
Halo players and the way the controllers work allow way more skill.
I dono I feel bad for halo dropping off but it sounds kinda of dumb when they say starcraft blows the gamers who play it play it all day and no other life.
Bobby fischer the best chest player ever when he was on top he didnt know how to drive or had a girlfriend. Cause he devoted and thats why he was the best. So I dont think they understand how it works.
Starcraft 2 professionaly is such a high art form and the people who do it are spending all day doing it...Thats how it works.
Cheers to the Halo guys its a great game but I think the mass quanity of young kid really drown out those guys which kinda suck.
Dont flame these guys, just nip it. Best of luck to Halo
On December 05 2011 14:26 FrodoAndTheSlobStix wrote: LOL, these guys joke around and troll and then get serious. Lol it's kinda funny. Why can't gamers join? It's like a catch 22 for these guys. They complain about halo being ot noticable and then they bash starcraft for the gamers playing all day? Thats what art is, complete devotion. There kinda saying they want halo to be a huge e.sport but they aknowledge it's just a game. And I think Halo is probally 2nd skill required game where as call of duty is just fast reaction.
Halo players and the way the controllers work allow way more skill.
I dono I feel bad for halo dropping off but it sounds kinda of dumb when they say starcraft blows the gamers who play it play it all day and no other life.
Bobby fischer the best chest player ever when he was on top he didnt know how to drive or had a girlfriend. Cause he devoted and thats why he was the best. So I dont think they understand how it works.
Starcraft 2 professionaly is such a high art form and the people who do it are spending all day doing it...Thats how it works.
Cheers to the Halo guys its a great game but I think the mass quanity of young kid really drown out those guys which kinda suck.
Dont flame these guys, just nip it. Best of luck to Halo
But that's when they're joking. Notice later they say that they're disturbed about how little their halo "pro's" actually practiced compared to SC2 and other games. They're trying to set up the SC2 players as these dedicated professionals (joking about clothing aside) and pointing out how lazy and stagnated Halo has become.
I think a really cool thing to do is at next mlg have the sc2 fans when free time go and watch halo get involved in the game and cheer ur ass off it would help them out
No need to be upset. Regardless of whether or not they were actually flaming the starcraft community, it doesn't change who we are as a community. To be blunt and a bit arrogant, they're jealous of what we have. So what if they are better dressers , the passion we have for our game is above the "casual" level of Halo. Simple as that.
On December 05 2011 11:07 Kamikiri wrote: Honestly, I don't care, Starcraft community is so huge compared to halos community. You say that we maybe should sympathize because their community is getting smaller and possibly dying off, but why should we care? If a game deserves to be an eSport it will survive, also you talk like halo has a big loyal community, I am sorry to say it does not.
Nobody really cares what some halo people have to say about starcraft, most of their views and points are pure ignorance and anger fueled. Also, Halo is considered a Joke compared to other FPS games for most people. I am all for any game doing well and everything, but if you ask me if a game with a community that actually follows it as a devoted eSport is very few people. It is a game mostly for people to play and have fun casually, they do not have a huge devoted community.
I am sorry but I just don't care about a few halo people talking shit about starcraft because they are honestly, jealous and worried about their game.
Exactly. If the halo games are getting worse, blame the developer and not other games
I just finished listened to the whole thing. The first 5 minutes is, unfortunately, a butt hurt rant stemming from the frustration of being MLG's darling for so many years and being totally dethroned by starcraft.
The only thing they really say is that starcraft players don't have any fashion style (ironically while all wearing tshirts and hoodies but touting $150 shoes) and that sc2 pros spend a lot more time playing than the halo pros do. Essentially that we are more nerdy, even though they are hosting a web show on a video game.
The other 47 minutes is a rant on the halo scene needing to step up their game, and the constantly reference the SC2 scene as an example on how to get it done.
I have to admit, after I saw the video I expected 25+ pages of rage calling Halo a shitty game in polite enough ways to avoid getting banned.
However, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the TeamLiquid community didn't jump on the hate bandwagon like the Reddit community did on this issue.
I love the Halo community even if my SC2 watching has caused me to not watch it (I don't want to watch Halo VODs - a lot of the excitement is in the moment and it conflicts with SC2 finals/group play).
Final post. But I actually think op might be in relation to that video cause the video has like 304 views which probally all came form us and the channel has no comments. I sense a false flag
Meh, I'm tired of all this crap talking about how we should support eSports, I only care about Starcraft, CS a little bit also.
We don't see football fans trying to promote all sports or vice versa, i don't see why it is assumed that everyone loves eSports, I for one just love starcraft...
I've browsed through several pages of this thread and it strikes me as so odd how much hate there is for League of Legends there is in this forum with arguments that LoL takes less skill than other MOBA games. The reason it strikes me as odd is because these people are the same people that are arguing that sc2 is better than BW. Don't you realize that your arguments don't go both ways?
On December 05 2011 14:39 SeizeTheDay wrote: I am going to make a video re-spawn to this later maybe after work tomorrow cuss some SHIT needs to be said to defend us sc2 players :D
Watch the whole damn video. They're not taking it seriously and if you do you look like the guy on the internet who missed the joke.
There are plenty of games that have died off from the esports scene, halo/cod are no exceptions. Cod never deserved to be an esport title. Halo's popularity gave MLG its start and they've been holding onto it since despite its decline.
Need a team based shooter? how about counter strike. Need fancy graphics? Get cs:go when it's released.
Need a single play shooter? How about a quake or UT style game. The unique guns and fast paced action make them very entertaining to watch.
On December 05 2011 14:39 SeizeTheDay wrote: I am going to make a video re-spawn to this later maybe after work tomorrow cuss some SHIT needs to be said to defend us sc2 players :D
Watch the whole damn video. They're not taking it seriously and if you do you look like the guy on the internet who missed the joke.
Agreed. I didn't give a shit about the video, but it was pretty clear that they were just joking. Some of us need to grow some chest hairs.
just my two cents as a relatively neutral spectator: i remember when milkis got trashed by the majority of the community, both here on tl and on reddit for posting his elite comments about sc1 being the only real esport. two weeks later, people on both of these sites complain about dreamhack showing games other then sc2 on the mainstage. theres even been a massive thread of sc2 is the only esports bullshit on reddit. i just feel like a big chunk of the sc2 community are just ignorant towards any other games.
If you watch the whole video you will see that they really envy the SC2 scene. They are on the brink of extinction and trying to keep their game alive. At the end the make several references to how the SC2 scene is so big and the problem is they don't have a unified community. Sounds more like jealousy to me. The video is harmless.
On December 05 2011 14:40 Zerksys wrote: I've browsed through several pages of this thread and it strikes me as so odd how much hate there is for League of Legends there is in this forum with arguments that LoL takes less skill than other MOBA games. The reason it strikes me as odd is because these people are the same people that are arguing that sc2 is better than BW. Don't you realize that your arguments don't go both ways?
99% of the people who hate LoL don't even play moba games and just join the bandwagon off assumption because of its bad reputation of being "easier" than dota/hon, yes, it is easier, it has a much easier learning curve, but the skill ceiling is still just as high as dota or hon as far as teamwork goes, but they wouldn't know that because the only thing they know how to do is insult other games under the guise of "skill", even games they have never or will never play
Just a couple of guys having fun and talking shit. I've listened to a couple minutes. They are a bit obnoxious, but I don't think they're all that serious. Haven't heard anything that makes me go for the pitchforks.
And just saying, Starcraft players are pretty fucking stylish. Just look at motherfucking NaDa, for one example.
And on the off-chance they hate SC2 and want it to die hard, it's their opinion and they're entitled to theirs. The majority of the community probably think it's sweet that MLG is getting huge numbers, and Halo is most likely not going anywhere.
All they have is this shit game nobody likes, ofc they are going to be upset and in need of trashtalking others, just to prove themself big. Classic dumbass style.
On December 05 2011 15:01 Kimaker wrote: The word "Nerd" has very different connotations from the way in which I've been using it for years if these guys are nerds...
On December 05 2011 14:40 Zerksys wrote: I've browsed through several pages of this thread and it strikes me as so odd how much hate there is for League of Legends there is in this forum with arguments that LoL takes less skill than other MOBA games. The reason it strikes me as odd is because these people are the same people that are arguing that sc2 is better than BW. Don't you realize that your arguments don't go both ways?
This is hardly true. My friends who have played both BW and SC2 still prefer BW, and we all hate LoL, I've never played BW myself but I play ssbm competitively, and I hate brawl with a passion, so I can understand where the BW people come from.
On December 05 2011 14:40 Zerksys wrote: I've browsed through several pages of this thread and it strikes me as so odd how much hate there is for League of Legends there is in this forum with arguments that LoL takes less skill than other MOBA games. The reason it strikes me as odd is because these people are the same people that are arguing that sc2 is better than BW. Don't you realize that your arguments don't go both ways?
99% of the people who hate LoL don't even play moba games and just join the bandwagon off assumption because of its bad reputation of being "easier" than dota/hon, yes, it is easier, it has a much easier learning curve, but the skill ceiling is still just as high as dota or hon as far as teamwork goes, but they wouldn't know that because the only thing they know how to do is insult other games under the guise of "skill", even games they have never or will never play
The skill ceiling isn't nearly as high in teamwork. I subbed in for my friend in a LoL inhouse with people that play it seriously, against an equal team, and we won by a landslide. I did absolutely nothing as support for the first 5 minutes of the game, it was really boring.
Why do we care what halo people say? The first year sc2 was in mlg it broke records, and they didnt even have a proper place for it, they had folding tables and whatnot instead of booths
We are an elitist community, but we're also a very well mannered one compared to most others.
On December 05 2011 14:35 PhiliBiRD wrote: watched the video for 30 seconds before i turned it off
these are generic halo retards... theres not alot else to say
Start 4 minutes on and you'll see that the rest of their thing isn't about SC at all.
yea i realize its not all about SC, im sure when they arent talking trash its prob a great thing for halo players, but to start off the thing with 2 of 3 stating they are just going to talk mad shit about 2 other gaming communities is just silly, talking shit is pointless when done in public, its shameful.
On December 05 2011 15:01 Kimaker wrote: The word "Nerd" has very different connotations from the way in which I've been using it for years if these guys are nerds...
Indeed. They seem more like video game jocks lol.
I'm a video game jock (not the same connotation as the American one). Got beef? ;o
On December 05 2011 14:40 Zerksys wrote: I've browsed through several pages of this thread and it strikes me as so odd how much hate there is for League of Legends there is in this forum with arguments that LoL takes less skill than other MOBA games. The reason it strikes me as odd is because these people are the same people that are arguing that sc2 is better than BW. Don't you realize that your arguments don't go both ways?
The amount of double standards I see in the SC2 forums is out of hand. I'll give you that.
On December 05 2011 12:53 Swwww wrote: Console gamers getting butthurt cuz pc games require skill :/ That being said bashing other games and communities does not promote a good image for either parties..
You know, of all the things to say about console games, this is probably the most ignorant. I may be in the minority here, but there are plenty of console games, particularly fighting games, with a long history of high level competitive play. Are shooters/RTS games less good on consoles than PC? Obviously. Does that mean that every console game is just some terrible casualfest that any retard can pick up and win at in 20 minutes? No. Christ, PC elitism is annoying as fuck.
To be honest the apology video seemed a lot worse than the original video. I get really tired of hearing "Halo players are more likely to have hobbies outside of gaming." It sounds really similar to me to the guy that you beat in a game who upon realizing he's lost says "I bet you're a fat nerd who plays all day and etc....". I don't give a crap about what IdrA does on his day off, or NaDa's secret modelling career outside of SC.
This apology video is less of an "apology" and more of a "we're not gonna apologize" video. Which makes it seems less like what may have started as a joke is now maybe just a little more of a middle finger to the SC2 community.
Everything they say is understandable. I'm just glad to be in the right community. I was with the sc community when it wasn't as popular. Everyone was for the most part respectful and kept to themselves.
Regardless, sc takes a much higher skill level to be professional, ergo the number of hours played by our pros, vs the halo pros and their apparent free time. I think every community have their trolls and shit talkers, but when it comes down to it, I believe sc has a more mature level of gamers(This is from my experience with both communities, and yeah they both have their immature folk).
What I got from this video is that the halo pros wished their community was as proactive and as productive as ours.
On December 05 2011 15:28 slicknav wrote: Its seems like Halo guys are a little bit jealous. They were the center of MLG for a while, but then they just got completely overrun by starcraft.
It's in some ways to be expected though. When you're a pro gamer and your game isn't getting the attention that it used to and is beginning to fall off while another bigger and greener giant rises in it's place with it's own set of delicious vegetables(players) that receive loads more attention (from sponsors and fans) than you are obviously going to be worried. Their future financially is at stake, as well as their ability to continue playing the game they love for a job.
Halo kids have to get their shots in, I mean they are completely made fun of in the genre relentlessly by the fans of games that actually take skill like Quake and Counter-strike, to the point where NOBODY takes these kids seriously. They are literally too stupid and ignorant to insult, they're an irrelevant branch of a bad game, on a console, who cares?
These people are absolutely the difference between our communities. Just listen to them.
-We in teamliquid get worried that the game is too easy. The halo players are bragging about how they don't have to spend that much time(their game is based on reaction time and some strategy that really doesn't change) and that they have other hobbies(which really is bullshit I don't believe sc2 pros have no lives).
-Quote "I'm not hating on the starcraft community. I'm just saying we dress better than yall." That is such a stupid statement, it's pure contradiction. What's the word? oxymoron. I mean, they're just on camera talking about how they may not be as popular but they are cooler than us. And then they try to justify it with "look, from our point of view we were at the top of mlg, and now we're not." It's just unintelligent people being unintelligent.
-they invent things about starcraft "if they say they're not nerds, they're wrong." We never said that. Then they say that we have no extra activities because we don't have time. Just.....go to hell, it's not even your place to talk about this.
-This reinforces my prejudice against the halo community and fps communities in general. It's like an evolution of the kind of people that jocks, bandos, and rappers would be if they were gamers. It's the kind of person I don't like to listen to. You know how people complain about casters saying one swear word? They swear all the time to the point of excess.
Edit found a post to sum up my opinion:
On December 05 2011 15:04 NuclearJudas wrote: Just a couple of guys having fun and talking shit. I've listened to a couple minutes. They are a bit obnoxious, but I don't think they're all that serious. Haven't heard anything that makes me go for the pitchforks.
And just saying, Starcraft players are pretty fucking stylish. Just look at motherfucking NaDa, for one example.
And on the off-chance they hate SC2 and want it to die hard, it's their opinion and they're entitled to theirs. The majority of the community probably think it's sweet that MLG is getting huge numbers, and Halo is most likely not going anywhere.
I found a bunch of nerds calling other guys nerd funny. It was in jest at the SC2 community but they have one underlying point that is great to hear a pro on their side say. You don't have to practice much to be good at halo but you do for SC2. That says it all, one is a casual game for screwing around, one is a pro level game.
The other thing I found hilarious, they have "25 years" between the 3 of them in gaming. Well I can get with my budy and we have ...... 56 years of gaming between the two of us. I have over 28 year of gaming on my own. Yes though, they are soo experienced lol.
Ah, the current crop of kids in todays gaming world.
On December 05 2011 15:11 BoomNasty wrote: meh this video is kind of dumb, an OP is very misleading
Agreed. I watched the first ten minutes and I can't discern any meaning at all from these eggheads. I would actually respect them more if they voiced a strong opinion instead of prefacing every comment with "I dont wanna hate on the sc community...but...but ..but..."
And to answer the question, yes I am prejudiced. I hate MOBA games, I hate WOW, actually I hate any MMORPG. I don't mind fps so much, some of the pc fps's do require skill, even if that skill is biased on the side of fast reactions and motor skills rather than tactical decision-making. But some of the dickheads who represent the fps community I feel give first person shooters a bad rep.
My biggest raging point though is the prejudice in society against gamers. Being put in the same stereotypical box as people who play facebook games and mmos enrages me to the point of breaking things. I am not some idiot bashing buttons all day, I play xanatu speed chess against humanity's best and brightest.
I love starcraft 2 because it requires more than just quick hands and lighting fast reflexes, it requires you to think. It makes you think hard based on the information you got, and rewards the cunning.
I am actually starting to dislike bw and sc1 though. The complaints about sc2 being inferior to bw are wearing thin for me. I know we don't have a bonjwa yet, but that doesn't make our game inferior. It's only been a year and a few months, the game is still young. The fact that there is no single dominant player in the sc2 community is a sign that our players as a whole are highly adaptive and that the winner will always be the player with the smartest builds and the better improvisation, not purely the person with the highest apm. Stop bitching about the elephant in the room; you are neglecting all the other animals and making Losiracat, Leenocktopus, Puma and MurloC et al sad.
On December 05 2011 12:53 Swwww wrote: Console gamers getting butthurt cuz pc games require skill :/ That being said bashing other games and communities does not promote a good image for either parties..
You know, of all the things to say about console games, this is probably the most ignorant. I may be in the minority here, but there are plenty of console games, particularly fighting games, with a long history of high level competitive play. Are shooters/RTS games less good on consoles than PC? Obviously. Does that mean that every console game is just some terrible casualfest that any retard can pick up and win at in 20 minutes? No. Christ, PC elitism is annoying as fuck.
Well, you must consider where the pc elitism comes from. They brag about how they have to spend less time on their game and so they have more hobbies and wear better clothes/are cooler than starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 is highly strategic, way more so than rts games or fighting games. Are they worse? of course not. But yeah if they are gonna brag about free time then we can tell them their game requires no skill.
Why are three not too good looking, and poorly dressed, men harassing the fashion sense of Starcraft players? Even if, hypothetically, Starcraft players have poor fashion 'sense' it would still be like the pimple faced kid making fun of some guy who has back acne.
On December 05 2011 15:18 Spaceneil8 wrote: Everybody watch the apology video in the OP.
This is so epic. I was laughing the entire time.
This is supposed to be less serious than the first video, right? Literally everything they say, they take back in the next sentence.
Well played.
Yeah, these guys are remarkably inarticulate. One moment a guy says that he was making jokes to make a bigger serious point. Then the other guys says they were completely joking....then the third guy says that he wasn't joking and has resentment for SC2 people that shit on Halo... then the other guy says it's all a joke and out of context.
judging from the comments, I, and the many others here, should all watch the whole video. Apparently the OP forgot to tell us that beyond the first 10 minutes they actually respect us, kind of makes me think the OP either didn't watch all of it and just doesn't care or did watch all of it and is trolling us into hating them back.
I'm gonna have to watch it all and judge for myself, brb in an hour
On December 05 2011 15:38 Bippzy wrote: You know how people complain about casters saying one swear word? They swear all the time to the point of excess.
Just wanted to point out that this is one of the most bollocks things to complain about a caster. Even though broadcasted casters are supposed to present a (mostly) family-friendly experience to the viewers because people of all ages watch SC2 I think it's absolutely ridiculous that swearing is considered bad form from a caster. Is it something that I think needs to be used to make good casting? Absolutely not. Is it something that makes a caster bad? Again, no.
I'm glad that our casts are presented in a way that is family-friendly because I think little Starcraft fans grow up to be big Starcraft fans and their exposure to the game is important, but if someone slips up or says hell/damn/shit/the very occassional fuck (I've heard it maybe twice from Tasteless in GSL) every now and again like Tasteless/Artosis then there is no reason to whine about it.
On December 05 2011 12:53 Swwww wrote: Console gamers getting butthurt cuz pc games require skill :/ That being said bashing other games and communities does not promote a good image for either parties..
You know, of all the things to say about console games, this is probably the most ignorant. I may be in the minority here, but there are plenty of console games, particularly fighting games, with a long history of high level competitive play. Are shooters/RTS games less good on consoles than PC? Obviously. Does that mean that every console game is just some terrible casualfest that any retard can pick up and win at in 20 minutes? No. Christ, PC elitism is annoying as fuck.
Choose some better examples. I don't consider fighting games to be from consoles. They will and forever stem from arcades. Heck everyone still plays with a fight stick to be the best.
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
Counter-Strike 1.5/1.6 defined eSports and coined the very term. Not only that, but Counter-Strike is arguably the all-time most dominant eSport game. Not so much anymore, but for many years it was at the top around the globe. To say something like you did, you obviously weren't involved in the CS scene.
On December 05 2011 12:53 Swwww wrote: Console gamers getting butthurt cuz pc games require skill :/ That being said bashing other games and communities does not promote a good image for either parties..
You know, of all the things to say about console games, this is probably the most ignorant. I may be in the minority here, but there are plenty of console games, particularly fighting games, with a long history of high level competitive play. Are shooters/RTS games less good on consoles than PC? Obviously. Does that mean that every console game is just some terrible casualfest that any retard can pick up and win at in 20 minutes? No. Christ, PC elitism is annoying as fuck.
Well, you must consider where the pc elitism comes from. They brag about how they have to spend less time on their game and so they have more hobbies and wear better clothes/are cooler than starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 is highly strategic, way more so than rts games or fighting games. Are they worse? of course not. But yeah if they are gonna brag about free time then we can tell them their game requires no skill.
Except for the part where the post I was responding to paints every console game as shit compared to any PC game. Did you not read it? If he wanted to say that Halo doesn't require as much skill as SC2, I'd probably not have any problem with it. It's the blanket statements/elitism that are both insulting and idiotic.
On December 05 2011 12:53 Swwww wrote: Console gamers getting butthurt cuz pc games require skill :/ That being said bashing other games and communities does not promote a good image for either parties..
You know, of all the things to say about console games, this is probably the most ignorant. I may be in the minority here, but there are plenty of console games, particularly fighting games, with a long history of high level competitive play. Are shooters/RTS games less good on consoles than PC? Obviously. Does that mean that every console game is just some terrible casualfest that any retard can pick up and win at in 20 minutes? No. Christ, PC elitism is annoying as fuck.
Choose some better examples. I don't consider fighting games to be from consoles. They will and forever stem from arcades. Heck everyone still plays with a fight stick to be the best.
On December 05 2011 15:38 Marconos wrote: I found a bunch of nerds calling other guys nerd funny. It was in jest at the SC2 community but they have one underlying point that is great to hear a pro on their side say. You don't have to practice much to be good at halo but you do for SC2. That says it all, one is a casual game for screwing around, one is a pro level game.
The other thing I found hilarious, they have "25 years" between the 3 of them in gaming. Well I can get with my budy and we have ...... 56 years of gaming between the two of us. I have over 28 year of gaming on my own. Yes though, they are soo experienced lol.
Ah, the current crop of kids in todays gaming world.
Long live SC2, RIP BW.
in MLG. Only possible because the league hasn't been around that long. I guarantee you that they're all not like 15 lol, which they'd have to be assuming they started gaming at a decent age (and the one far left is a former pro at 15 so i KNOW he's been gaming for longer).
On December 05 2011 15:49 T3tra wrote: I feel bad for Halo players who also enjoy SC2 who will get painted the same color as these guys because of this video.
Yeah, sad thing is that one's a caster, one's high level MLG shit (forget what he does), and one works in production and used to cast parttime. They're not random trolls, they're actually deep in the MLG organization.
I don't take issue with what they said (obviously a joke, as anyone who made it past 3 minutes could tell), it's that it's so unprofesisonal looking compared to other esports broadcasts.
I can't stress enough that IT'S A JOKE, something that half the people here seem to be missing.
On December 05 2011 15:31 ExO_ wrote: To be honest the apology video seemed a lot worse than the original video. I get really tired of hearing "Halo players are more likely to have hobbies outside of gaming." It sounds really similar to me to the guy that you beat in a game who upon realizing he's lost says "I bet you're a fat nerd who plays all day and etc....". I don't give a crap about what IdrA does on his day off, or NaDa's secret modelling career outside of SC.
This apology video is less of an "apology" and more of a "we're not gonna apologize" video. Which makes it seems less like what may have started as a joke is now maybe just a little more of a middle finger to the SC2 community.
On the otherhand, they do have a point though. We always bash console games and Halo in general. It's a dying community that constantly get's hated on by us. But the one time they make a joke in passing against us, we all get up in arms. And one of the points that that they gave- if we really think so low of Halo, why do we even care? Why do we deign to respond?
Also something I noticed. The Halo community seems to be leaving him out in the cold now. Thats whats he has been saying anyways. He has metioned that the gow community wouldn't leave him out in the cold but the Halo community did. ITs funny now he is getting punished by the Halo community too. I don't think he'll have a job by the end of this.
Seems like the style comment hit a nerve with people I pretty much agree, except for the korean starcraft community (includes Jinro) there is not a lot of style going around. Most players look like they just do not give a fuck when it comes to what they wear, like Naniwa and his sweat pants at MLG.
About relationship with other games: To be honest I will not spend an ounce of energy trying to help other games grow. I feel no responsibility for ESPORTS, if a game is good and I like it I will watch it and support it, but I will not care about other games just to help ESPORTS. That is just stupid.
Is it just me or was their apology video not an apology. They say they were not joking, but they really need to work on their joking. Also, I feel like this would have been a lot better if their personalities were not like they were. They acknowledged they don't have the best personalities and they are not helping their case by making videos like this. I can't take them serious for what they are and how they act. I will continue to have respect for players in the Halo community and other console games, but as for these guys I cannot really have respect for them.
Also, they should have realized that video would have this type of response.
edit: also if they want to get more respect for their community they should not be the ones who do it with videos like this. they clearly need to work on how they talk. not trying to be mean but thats my observation
In all seriousness, I think these are just some guys who are sad and jealous about the fall of halo and rise of sc2 and expressed this very poorly. None of their points make much sense at all.
On December 05 2011 15:31 ExO_ wrote: To be honest the apology video seemed a lot worse than the original video. I get really tired of hearing "Halo players are more likely to have hobbies outside of gaming." It sounds really similar to me to the guy that you beat in a game who upon realizing he's lost says "I bet you're a fat nerd who plays all day and etc....". I don't give a crap about what IdrA does on his day off, or NaDa's secret modelling career outside of SC.
This apology video is less of an "apology" and more of a "we're not gonna apologize" video. Which makes it seems less like what may have started as a joke is now maybe just a little more of a middle finger to the SC2 community.
On the otherhand, they do have a point though. We always bash console games and Halo in general. It's a dying community that constantly get's hated on by us. But the one time they make a joke in passing against us, we all get up in arms. And one of the points that that they gave- if we really think so low of Halo, why do we even care? Why do we deign to respond?
Agreed it's a good point- we give them shit for this but how many MLG LR threads have been filled with Halo and console hate? Hypocritical on our part.
its not like the first person shooter community is getting less, its the same, its just that starcraft 2 much bigger..thus creating the impression the other scenes are dieing when in truth the other games are only being overshadowed .. If they want to complain about that, they have to go straight to the devs of their games and tell them what to do to make the esport scene better.
what makes a better esport scene? a less casual game aka starcraft.. It did a huge trade off for having less players but a bigger esport scene, compared to games like call of duty that bring in the most players but cause its so casual the esport scene is a joke. People say league of legends is doing well and they like to quote this "one time" where they had 300k viewers, but im yet to see a fucking live audience give a damn about that game. As a matter of fact if they want to quote there best viewing figures, starcraft 2 had 700K viewers when boxer debuted in the gsl , it crashed gomtv.
so it always makes me laugh when a scene complains that there esport scene is not doing well but they say " o look we have more players than you".. Thats the fucking trade off.
Are these the people that lead the Halo Community? I don't care if theyre joking around, because they will never be taken seriously. We should be aiming to make all gaming communities professional as to give every game credibility in the mainstream.
On December 05 2011 12:53 Swwww wrote: Console gamers getting butthurt cuz pc games require skill :/ That being said bashing other games and communities does not promote a good image for either parties..
You know, of all the things to say about console games, this is probably the most ignorant. I may be in the minority here, but there are plenty of console games, particularly fighting games, with a long history of high level competitive play. Are shooters/RTS games less good on consoles than PC? Obviously. Does that mean that every console game is just some terrible casualfest that any retard can pick up and win at in 20 minutes? No. Christ, PC elitism is annoying as fuck.
Choose some better examples. I don't consider fighting games to be from consoles. They will and forever stem from arcades. Heck everyone still plays with a fight stick to be the best.
No, there are quite a few pad players.
It's not about games like Street Fighter that can work perfectly on any system. PC elitism exists (in this context) because they are taking a genre that has evolved to be played with perfect keyboard+mouse controls and suddenly devolved to a control set that just doesn't work with it. FPS on consoles are laughable as competitive games because they rely heavily on aids for the players to overcome the lack of precision.
It would be like having a version of SC2 played with gamepads, where the cursor positions itself on the Colossi when you give the attack command to your Vikings.
There are so many games on consoles that could be considered for serious comptetitive professional play. Halo and CoD aren't them.
I say fuck it. E-sports is gonna collapse if it's fragmented like it is. We as a community need to be the bigger men here and start embracing things like Halo and Cod.
Yes I know, it's like a basefall fan telling a hockey fan he needs to watch baseball.
But at the same time... it totally isn't like that. Hockey and baseball are here to stay? Are e-sports? Only time will tell, but if we're ALL shitting on them from the get-go (and let's face it, we all shit on those other e-sports too), it's not gonna happen.
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
Counter-Strike 1.5/1.6 defined eSports and coined the very term. Not only that, but Counter-Strike is arguably the all-time most dominant eSport game. Not so much anymore, but for many years it was at the top around the globe. To say something like you did, you obviously weren't involved in the CS scene.
I'm pretty sure that Mity said that Quake and CS are much better than Halo, not that all three of them are laughable excuses. He was comparing Halo to other FPS games, and said that Halo doesn't measure up.
I think you agree with him, at least in the respect that CS is top-tier in e-sports history
Honestly why would anyone get upset about this? They were just having a little fun and apparently they like starcraft. I mean reading any of the LR threads makes me more upset than this...
Starcraft community is shitting on console gamers every chance they get and then get butthurt when they say something back...
and no i don't even own any gaming console People need to grow some balls
Nothing really to take seriously here they are just playing around ...
But just to play along... all the BW guys as stated, MKP, Bomber, MMA all look like fashion models and sport some cool styles... all the korean players in general seem to have amazing hairstyles. Even some foreigner have some cool fashion like Sase, stephano's funky urban look, jinro's frohawk, etc...
That "apology" video needs to go up there with all of Combat's as the worst apologies ever made. Essentially saying that they are allowed to talk shit but other people cannot. LOL. Dmaq's rage about destiny really made me laugh... how could you not know that destiny is the second biggest troll in the SC2 community.
In all seriousness, I almost feel bad for them. Their favorite game is declining pretty hard, and even if I don't like it at all I have to feel for them. It's also somewhat called for after some pretty bad BM at MLGs, but still pretty immature. Honestly I have to thank TL.net for forcing the community to be more mature, because I can't think of more than a couple of personalities in the SC community who would make videos like this. Granted, I don't know much about Halo's community so I can't say whether these guys are fringe or not. At least Dmaq seemed to try to ameliorate the situation, but the other guy was pretty bad. I really do hope that they can save their community, but this seemed to be a series of bad decisions where neither scene is going to come out on top. :C
EDIT: SaSe's hat???? Are you really going to talk about the hat? Have you seen the Koreans' keyboards for GSL? Holy shit those things are handsome.
All I got from this is that Halo fans/pros don't love Halo as much as Starcraft fans/pros love Starcraft. I followed the Halo scene before I followed Starcraft and lost interest because clearly pros don't put in the time they should. The fact I could go into the MLG playlist in Halo 3 and beat pros on a regular basis (whereas if I played even a "bad" SC pro 100 times I would probably lose all 100 times) just goes to show that the game is casual and never going to be on the level of more hardcore games like CS, SC, Quake, Lol, etc. SC is an actual profession whereas Halo seems like a hobby. You obviously put more time into a profession than a hobby.
Nexy is an unprofessional douche, so is dmac, and gandhi is a washed up pro/average caster that are all butthurt that SC has stolen the MLG spotlight. It is sad to see the Halo community die, but it is due to Bungie making each Halo game more and more casual. It was frustrating to watch as a fan of MLG and a fan of Halo.
Why would we sympathize we these people? A) the halo community is so small we gain nothing from it
B) they just come across as douche bags. I do NOT want these type of people in the sc2 community, they can stay put with their dying old game while we flourish with 100k tournaments every month.
Was anyone else in the chat at the MLG/redbull practice event? was just loads of halo players ripping on starcraft players, using generic insults like nerd etc.
Again, we shouldn't want these people in our community. I care 0.00000% about these generic "halo bros" and what they think of a real competitive game and it's community/better that is larger than theirs.
The only thing more painful to endure than the first video was their apology video..which was just a passive/aggressive way of reiterating what they had already said. Their logic is so flawed I don't even know where to start, if I didn't think that the Halo community was immature before I do now. It's easy to see the difference immediately when listening to how these guys talk/articulate their point (very poorly) and comparing it to intelligent adults like Day9, Tyler, Artosis, InControl, and DJwheat that our communities are vastly different. Why even give what these guys say 2 seconds of thought?
^missed the part where they were joking all the time.
On December 05 2011 16:40 AegiS_ wrote: Wow what derps.
Why would we sympathize we these people? A) the halo community is so small we gain nothing from it
B) they just come across as douche bags. I do NOT want these type of people in the sc2 community, they can stay put with their dying old game while we flourish with 100k tournaments every month.
Was anyone else in the chat at the MLG/redbull practice event? was just loads of halo players ripping on starcraft players, using generic insults like nerd etc.
Again, we shouldn't want these people in our community. I care 0.00000% about these generic "halo bros" and what they think of a real competitive game and it's community/better that is larger than theirs.
Dmaq is a content worker for MLG and Nexy is the content director (head of all the shit that goes up) for MLG. I think you care about what they think.
On December 05 2011 16:40 AegiS_ wrote: Wow what derps.
Why would we sympathize we these people? A) the halo community is so small we gain nothing from it
B) they just come across as douche bags. I do NOT want these type of people in the sc2 community, they can stay put with their dying old game while we flourish with 100k tournaments every month.
Was anyone else in the chat at the MLG/redbull practice event? was just loads of halo players ripping on starcraft players, using generic insults like nerd etc.
Again, we shouldn't want these people in our community. I care 0.00000% about these generic "halo bros" and what they think of a real competitive game and it's community/better that is larger than theirs.
Jesus man, listen to yourself. When did the SC2 community become this hivemind that either has to absorb or reject other communities. Are you forgetting that 1 year ago SC2 was up and comer while Halo was the big dog at MLG? And they don't want to be part of the SC2 community, all they are trying to do is start a spark in their own community. If anything they look at starcraft for inspiration and are trying to emulate the success (creating more content/streaming). This mentality of we're the big dog so we can bully everyone else is disgusting. You don't have to accept these people, but don't shit all over there attempts to start their own community simply because yours is bigger.
On December 05 2011 16:40 AegiS_ wrote: Wow what derps.
Why would we sympathize we these people? A) the halo community is so small we gain nothing from it
B) they just come across as douche bags. I do NOT want these type of people in the sc2 community, they can stay put with their dying old game while we flourish with 100k tournaments every month.
Was anyone else in the chat at the MLG/redbull practice event? was just loads of halo players ripping on starcraft players, using generic insults like nerd etc.
Again, we shouldn't want these people in our community. I care 0.00000% about these generic "halo bros" and what they think of a real competitive game and it's community/better that is larger than theirs.
Dmaq is a content worker for MLG and Nexy is the content director (head of all the shit that goes up) for MLG. I think you care about what they think.
Nexy works on Black Ops at events. Dmaq works on Halo.
But anyway, the Redbull Lan was filled with people bashing Halo too. Way more so.
On December 05 2011 11:13 dAPhREAk wrote: im five minutes in and nothing they say seems to be even that controversial...
wow, very nice patience you got there. ^^" I turned off as soon as they started proclaiming that they were going to talk shit and hence not to be taking seriously.
edit: anyways, probably not just my type of humor, in fact, I don't like starcraft personalities either that are popular because of their antics like that.
Halo players just don't have the zealous attitude of starcraft players. They "have" no real community like Teamliquid or Blizzard forums(Blizzard forums can be quite silly at times...).
^MLG forums are all about Halo. That is their TL or B.net. But then again you seem to be more interested in putting down other communities you know nothing about rather than stating actual facts.
On December 05 2011 16:50 DystopiaX wrote: ^missed the part where they were joking all the time.
On December 05 2011 16:40 AegiS_ wrote: Wow what derps.
Why would we sympathize we these people? A) the halo community is so small we gain nothing from it
B) they just come across as douche bags. I do NOT want these type of people in the sc2 community, they can stay put with their dying old game while we flourish with 100k tournaments every month.
Was anyone else in the chat at the MLG/redbull practice event? was just loads of halo players ripping on starcraft players, using generic insults like nerd etc.
Again, we shouldn't want these people in our community. I care 0.00000% about these generic "halo bros" and what they think of a real competitive game and it's community/better that is larger than theirs.
Dmaq is a content worker for MLG and Nexy is the content director (head of all the shit that goes up) for MLG. I think you care about what they think.
Nexy works on Black Ops at events. Dmaq works on Halo.
But anyway, the Redbull Lan was filled with people bashing Halo too. Way more so.
Nexy works on much more than Black Ops. They make video content for MLG outside of events too. Nexy also works for Astro, one of the primary sponsors for MLG.
On December 05 2011 16:57 GnarKill wrote: hmmm... i mean... when i was at mlg me and my friends called everyone not play starcraft a halo fag ha. who really cares.
You're part of the problem, and just shows: Literally this is the first time anyone in the halo community has done something like this, but console bashing happens everyday on TL.
On December 05 2011 16:40 AegiS_ wrote: Wow what derps.
Why would we sympathize we these people? A) the halo community is so small we gain nothing from it
B) they just come across as douche bags. I do NOT want these type of people in the sc2 community, they can stay put with their dying old game while we flourish with 100k tournaments every month.
Was anyone else in the chat at the MLG/redbull practice event? was just loads of halo players ripping on starcraft players, using generic insults like nerd etc.
Again, we shouldn't want these people in our community. I care 0.00000% about these generic "halo bros" and what they think of a real competitive game and it's community/better that is larger than theirs.
Dmaq is a content worker for MLG and Nexy is the content director (head of all the shit that goes up) for MLG. I think you care about what they think.
why would we care what they think? many mlg workers have made it pretty clear that they dont like sc2, its purely a business thing. they are all halo fans and the fact that they would even appear on a video saying these things, joking or otherwise, its disrespectful to their largest business partners.
mlgs outside event content production, aparently this is dmaqs job? has been to buy state of the game and invent fuck slasher. a show where a guy who knows nothing about sc2 tells us who is going to win stuff and why, sick yo.
the funny thing is they arent even right. ive never seen any sc2 fan deny being a nerd, tastosis say "sick nerd baller" at least 10 times a day. and their comments on style are hilarious, they think a shitty pair of nike shoes = style? but whatever.
On December 05 2011 16:57 GnarKill wrote: hmmm... i mean... when i was at mlg me and my friends called everyone not play starcraft a halo fag ha. who really cares.
You're part of the problem, and just shows: Literally this is the first time anyone in the halo community has done something like this, but console bashing happens everyday on TL.
the first time the halo community does something like this? gaming gamism is full spectrum, halo players like to think sc2 players have no lives, and we like to think halo players are stupid.
Quote from some smart TLer: they just come across as douche bags. I do NOT want these type of people in the sc2 community, they can stay put with their dying old game while we flourish with 100k tournaments every month.
I think starcraft 2 had the same kind of effect as Halo 3 did (obviously not the same scale): A popular game that's mediocre brings in a lot of people better than a decent game that has no following. This is just the same recycled points over and over again.
On December 05 2011 17:01 sh4w wrote: Reading the responses, it's pretty clear most people only watched the first 5 minutes of the video :O
didnt want to watch more of a video where they are just being plain insulting. they give no clue they are joking, and the joke isnt funny. pretty much content production 101 to make it clear when you are joking, or people will just turn it off.
there is no problem here, can someone tell me what the problem is? who cares if there is crossbashing between games. Either way it shows loyal fans , NOTICE THE WORD LOYAL. You cant really call yourself loyal to a game if you support every game.
my loyalty lies within starcraft, so if i have to bash other games i will do so, Much like the guys of these "other games" will bash to get there own games attention.
In sports this stuff happens all the time, Americans are notorious for shitting on SOCCER , they so fucked up that they stole the word football to create their own game, when in truth there own game should be called soccer instead, because which sport has the hands on the ball 95% of the time? American football, why is it called FOOTBALL i have no idea, but they wanted to steal the word football ( only in america soccer is called football, everywhere else its known as football)
anyway, I SEE no problem and i not sure how this thread got this many replies.
On December 05 2011 17:01 sh4w wrote: Reading the responses, it's pretty clear most people only watched the first 5 minutes of the video :O
didnt want to watch more of a video where they are just being plain insulting. they give no clue they are joking, and the joke isnt funny. pretty much content production 101 to make it clear when you are joking, or people will just turn it off.
It's not 50 minutes of SC bashing, which would know if you watched the whole thing.
Also like they said it's dudes talking on skype, it's not a big official thing or anything.
On December 05 2011 17:01 sh4w wrote: Reading the responses, it's pretty clear most people only watched the first 5 minutes of the video :O
didnt want to watch more of a video where they are just being plain insulting. they give no clue they are joking, and the joke isnt funny. pretty much content production 101 to make it clear when you are joking, or people will just turn it off.
I saw no difference then this and some of the stuff said on SOTG or even LO3 sometimes. It was pretty obvious to me they were kind of joking...
They seem like pretty cool guys, I know I'd be way more upset than them if SC2 was taken off the main stage by some other game. They seem more upset at their own community for not being active and mature enough if anything.
I love these guys! Definitely will be watching them from now on. They aren't the most articulate, but they say what they want to say, have fun doing it, and actually want to grow their community. Props to them!
On December 05 2011 17:01 sh4w wrote: Reading the responses, it's pretty clear most people only watched the first 5 minutes of the video :O
didnt want to watch more of a video where they are just being plain insulting. they give no clue they are joking, and the joke isnt funny. pretty much content production 101 to make it clear when you are joking, or people will just turn it off.
I saw no difference then this and some of the stuff said on SOTG or even LO3 sometimes. It was pretty obvious to me they were kind of joking...
The difference is that this time we were being insulted instead of us insulting other communities.
On December 05 2011 17:04 jinixxx123 wrote: there is no problem here, can someone tell me what the problem is? who cares if there is crossbashing between games. Either way it shows loyal fans , NOTICE THE WORD LOYAL. You cant really call yourself loyal to a game if you support every game.
my loyalty lies within starcraft, so if i have to bash other games i will do so, Much like the guys of these "other games" will bash to get there own games attention.
This is my sentiment as well.
Every community has their own standards, their own criteria for skill, behaviour, what's good and what isn't etc. These guys are doing a Halo podcast for Halo community, and that is the ONLY game and community that is relevant to what they have to say.
The podcast isn't made for us and we're not even meant to hear any of this - and most of us wouldn't if it wasn't brought up to our attention by the few people that did.
We act the same way in our community and that's fine as well, because we have different history and different standards.
Let everyone do what they want in their own little corner of the internets. When they bring their trash talk to TL or a Starcraft related show, THEN you can be upset.
Honestly Slasher pisses me off way more than anything these guys said.
first impression: typical halo douchebags but as i watched more, you know, you can't really argue with what they're saying. the top sc2 pros don't do anything outside play sc2 (can be a good thing depending on the way you look at it). The whole "style" thing is a joke. It's really more that they seem a little jealous that sc2 is getting more attention than halo nowadays at MLG
On December 05 2011 17:19 blabber wrote: first impression: typical halo douchebags but as i watched more, you know, you can't really argue with what they're saying. the top sc2 pros don't do anything outside play sc2 (can be a good thing depending on the way you look at it). The whole "style" thing is a joke. It's really more that they seem a little jealous that sc2 is getting more attention than halo nowadays at MLG
And they're more jealous of the amount of time SC2 pros spend on the game than insulting; they even state that they wish that the community, especially the pros, take the game more seriously because the way it is right now it does seem much more casual.
if halo was competative enough and had enough money involved, the players would be less stylish cos they'd wear whatever the sponsors wanted them to and they wouldnt care.
you cant hate on a community just because its a much much much much much much harder game to play and requires more time to get good at.
also style wise, the host looked like a tool so its all good
in my personal opinion there is has never been any real esport beside SC1/2, WC3, quake, maaaaybe counterstrike (if camping on the floor and headshotting everything can be considered esport). I don't know about Dota2/HoN/Lol really anything so I won't say much about them, but it looks like it could be played competively. But Halo, Cod and stuff like that as an esports is just laughable (again: my opinion)
On December 05 2011 10:52 firehand101 wrote: This is the video that has inspired this thread. If you can't view it, it is basically 3 notable identities in the halo community discussing their thoughts on starcraft in general, and most are just plain offensive and cheap shots at our game (most are in the first 10 minutes so that is all you have to watch to get the general idea).
EDIT: There seems to be a misconception on how serious this video actually was. Although they are taking a poke at SC2, they are just having fun, and have even made an apology located here: http://www.twitch.tv/thehalocouncil/b/301735446
Gee OP, I wonder how people could have gotten that impression? Could it be because of the overstated tl;dr of the video that you typed out?
I didn't see anything offensive at all about Starcraft, they said multiple times that they liked the game, but they were upset that their own fans were bailing while Starcraft was doing so well, and were just trying to get a reaction out of people. Even if they hadn't pointed that out, nothing they said was really that bad. Halo players have better senses of fashion than Starcraft players? Better fucking send in the internet cavalry on that one, sounds pretty serious to me.
BW is huge, mostly because of its spectacular influence in Korea, and that inspiring a relatively smaller Foreign scene, and people played the game for the sake of the competition, not to set up competitions for the sake of the game, a la CoD or Halo. I think that's where the difference lies between the established ESPORTS like BW, CS, Dota, Quake, SF, and others like Halo and CoD which are more of a popular game that of course necessarily spawns a competitive scene for the duration of the popularity of the game itself.
I hope SC2 is the former, it surely feels like that now, with the competitive scene often driving people to play (or just watch) the game rather than the game driving the top players to be competitive.
But in the end, I don't really care what other gamers think, and I don't think other gamers should care that much about us either. If you enjoy a game, play it, if you enjoy its competitive scene, watch it/join it, if you don't enjoy any, ignore it.
I seriously dont understand how people can feel THAT offended by this lol. It seriously wasnt that bad. I guess people must of been sharpening their pitch forks and torches....
Dmaq was on F slasher and he made very solid points. I don't think what they said about the starcraft community really came off as they meant it to during the video. Dmaq has great respect for the game and the pro gamers from starcraft.
Halo is what introduced me to competetive gaming, but the halo community right now is not doing well. Anyone who browses the halo section of the MLG forum can see, it's just not doing well. There is very little fan support and the vast majority of forum posts are complaints about the state of the game. There's little effort from the fans to make change, instead the majority of good posts either get ignored in the flood of "trash game" posts or are downvoted for disagreeing with the majority. Halo needs more fan involvement, and I think these guys are just trying to get their community pumped.
People also seem to forget that halo was boo'd by starcraft fans some time ago at MLG, and that really hurts a community already struggling. This just seems like friendly banter to me.
On December 05 2011 17:01 sh4w wrote: Reading the responses, it's pretty clear most people only watched the first 5 minutes of the video :O
didnt want to watch more of a video where they are just being plain insulting. they give no clue they are joking, and the joke isnt funny. pretty much content production 101 to make it clear when you are joking, or people will just turn it off.
I saw no difference then this and some of the stuff said on SOTG or even LO3 sometimes. It was pretty obvious to me they were kind of joking...
incontrol is known in the sc2 community, and his voices changes blah blah blah. he doesnt shit on a different game, where they dont know him then after go "hurr joking". if you are going to shit on a community that doesnt know you, you have to be damn sure they know your joking. you cant fill in the caveats or the explanations at the end.
I actually really liked what they had to say. They were correct on every point, and they were not dicks about it at all. What is everyone pissed about? Like, you don't even need thicker skins, you just need skins in general.
I think this is completely stupid? Over reaction much? Being in a dying eSport really sucks, how would boxer feel if in his prime all of the tournaments just closed down? i think we would have inControl or destiny or any of some of those players would be doing things like this. The death of a community is a awful thing.
SC2 player for 2 years, and a Halo player since 4 years old btw
Who ever said we aren't nerds? I mean they talked for 5 minutes about how we say we aren't nerds. I think in general the community acknowledges that we are nerds.
its just a bad opinion that aired on a very popular stream. it isn't something they will reform from just because TL.net makes a fuss. They might apologize but we all know they will still think like that. Why try to accept them? let us form our own negative prejudices against halo and be done with that
If these ppl represent the halo community then I'm glad im a part of the starcraft community. Seriously some moronic, gangsta wannab kids who are basically parroting two things: a) to be a pro at halo you don't have to be as smart or hardworking as a starcraft pro and b) sc pros have no 'style' (ie we dont dress up unless paid... wtf?).
First of all, I think it's awesome sc pros have to work so hard to become the best. It makes being a champion a much more prideful thing. It's true that if you don't practice hard your skills won't be as refined and this leaves the pros with little other time to do anything else but play, but how can they seriously believe that the pros dont have any other hobbies, ffs.
Second of all. No style? Look at a picture of Demuslim. that fucker's got style that doesn't require you to wear your boxers over your head and look instead like a complete buffoon.
I know nothing of the FPS community... absolutely 0. But I refuse to believe they are actually as retarded as these ppl make them appear.. >.<
On December 05 2011 17:44 Sultan.P wrote: If these ppl represent the halo community then I'm glad im a part of the starcraft community. Seriously some moronic, gangsta wannab kids who are basically parroting two things: a) to be a pro at halo you don't have to be as smart or hardworking as a starcraft pro and b) sc pros have no 'style' (ie we dont dress up unless paid... wtf?).
First of all, I think it's awesome sc pros have to work so hard to become the best. It makes being a champion a much more prideful thing. It's true that if you don't practice hard your skills won't be as refined and this leaves the pros with little other time to do anything else but play, but how can they seriously believe that the pros dont have any other hobbies, ffs.
Second of all. No style? Look at a picture of Demuslim. that fucker's got style that doesn't require you to wear your boxers over your head and look instead like a complete buffoon.
I know nothing of the FPS community... absolutely 0. But I refuse to believe they are actually as retarded as these ppl make them appear.. >.<
+1, and they were right about 1 thing, WHITE-RA IS THE MAN
These ignorant dolts clearly show their pathetic level of intelligence(and possibly the entire community's) and the laughable amount of effort it takes to be good at Halo compared to Starcraft.
FPS communities are so trash, except for the CS1.6 which is pretty much dead.
On December 05 2011 11:20 Fionn wrote: I'm pretty sure if League of Legends came into MLG next season and took the main stage from SC2, we would have something like SotG calling a call to arms the same way the Halo community is trying to. They were the top dog at MLG forever, then SC2 came in and dwarfed them in no time. Now Halo is in the back corner and totally ignored while SC2 dominates all the coverage, fans and money.
No the situation is different. SC 2 is still getting bigger so even if LoL took the 'main stage' they'd just get another stage that's just as big and there would still be a lot of SC 2 streams, but LoL would have the equivalent. Soo having a major LoL tournament at MLG would be only good for SC 2 it would give a lot of exposure to SC 2 and maybe fuel the community with a few more fans and the same with lol, but I think pretty much every sc 2 fan knows lol, but not the other way around.
On December 05 2011 17:49 MassacrisM wrote: These ignorant dolts clearly show their pathetic level of intelligence(and possibly the entire community's) and the laughable amount of effort it takes to be good at Halo compared to Starcraft.
FPS communities are so trash, except for the CS1.6 which is pretty much dead.
Quake? I'm not a fan, but it looked pretty competative when I was watching DH
Toolbags with late-highschool/early-college mentality, trying to act like they aren't 'just another nerd for their game'.
Is there some sort of meme with these 'thick skin' comments? The negative reactions are justified, when people come across as bigots they are going to recieve flak over it. You don't see anyone posting photos of their wrists slit over this or how their day was ruined.
I dont know, maybe its the fact that i dont have any sand in my vagina like a select few of you fine gentlemen, but it seemed to me like these guys were just having fun. They dont seem to be angry, or to genuinely hate sc2. Yeah they threw out some stereotypes about the SC2 community, but we shit on their community WAAAY more. I've seen sotg hosts say way more offensive shit.
If you listen to the show, it's less than 5 minutes of poking fun at SC players, and they are just having fun saying they dress better than them. They then go on to pre-emptively apologise and say they are just trying to put some passion in to their own communities.
I see no problem with this at all and I feel sorry that their game is less exciting and interesting to the general population of people that watch e-sports. I wish they did have more followers, they are passionate, they are actually pretty intelligent, and I wish them massive success.
On December 05 2011 17:49 MassacrisM wrote: These ignorant dolts clearly show their pathetic level of intelligence(and possibly the entire community's) and the laughable amount of effort it takes to be good at Halo compared to Starcraft.
FPS communities are so trash, except for the CS1.6 which is pretty much dead.
Honestly, I think your post makes OUR community look worse than their video does, because you've clearly missed the sarcasm and irony inherent in their video.
Also, way to grossly generalize by insulting FPS communities en masse.
I think a more accurate statement is most of the pros have no style, which I agree with (except many of the koreans, but that's because in Korea style is part of their culture), but the casual players that play for fun (ladder or team games or whatever) probably are more like the halo community in that we have more time to enjoy other activities and hobbies, but probably not as douchebag. Most foreign professionals have pretty poor fashion tastes, but I'm not hating on them, if they don't want to put time into that who cares, it makes no one better or worse. I enjoy watching the foreigners because I'm apart of that demographic, and I support them, I love their passion for the game, and I definitely enjoy watching their display of skill, I don't watch them for their style and would probably never take any style cues from them. When I go to MLG, Blizzcon and other events though in general it's quite a geek fest (seems like a lot of people just don't care their attire) lol, please don't be offended it's just my observation. But hey to each his own, I have utmost respect for whoever has passion, if your passion is purely SC2 and you give a rats ass about your style, I really don't give a flying fuck and do not hate whatsoever, just be you. To flat out defend the pros just because you're passionate about the SC2 community is wrong as well, because from my opinion they have poor tastes.
Things I love to do: - Play sports (bball, tennis, USfootball, volleyball) - Hiking/Camping - Play Starcraft 2!! (almost into masters, fighting my way there one step at a time) - Go Shopping - Gymming
I bet if everyone here listed their hobbies, it would be VERY diverse, like myself I wish I had more creative hobbies, but I'm lacking in that area, unless I explore my creative side with some weed =D They also made an accurate statement that professional SC2 leaves less (again less, not no time) time for other hobbies, but that's no reason to hate either, it can be fairly accurate to some degree, but again the point is PASSION!! If fulltime SC2 is that, then I'm happy for those individuals.
At first I thought these guys were totally douchebags for saying such ignorant, overgeneralized, stereotypical things about our community, but then I realized they were poking fun, so it wasn't so bad it was actually quite funny haha. I think there's a lot of people blowing this outta proportion, seriously lighten up.
On December 05 2011 17:49 MassacrisM wrote: These ignorant dolts clearly show their pathetic level of intelligence(and possibly the entire community's) and the laughable amount of effort it takes to be good at Halo compared to Starcraft.
FPS communities are so trash, except for the CS1.6 which is pretty much dead.
Honestly, I think your post makes OUR community look worse than their video does, because you've clearly missed the sarcasm and irony inherent in their video.
Also, way to grossly generalize by insulting FPS communities en masse.
I must agree with you here, you make our community look absolutely NO better with those kinds of remarks.
P.S. I made very OVERGENERALIZED statements about foreigner pro style, but I certainly don't think it represents them all whatsoever. Need I remind who gives a flying crap about their style, I watch them for their skill.
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
Word.
I played Halo semi-competitively from 2006 to 2009 and I agree with you. Even while I was playing and competing hardcore, I was bored when watching the MLG streams... It's so bland, boring and just not exciting... When I watch Quake pros play I'm amazed like every time, I look at what they do and I'm like damn, I would never be able to do that! Halo is just so easy to aim, control, etc. It has so munch variance, it's horrible as an esport.
I should precise that I was talking about Halo 3 and Halo:Reach, 1 and 2 were actually legit competitive games.
On December 05 2011 17:42 riverkim09 wrote: its just a bad opinion that aired on a very popular stream. it isn't something they will reform from just because TL.net makes a fuss. They might apologize but we all know they will still think like that. Why try to accept them? let us form our own negative prejudices against halo and be done with that
Just wanted to quote you. Good insight as to why the cycle of racism/discrimination is ongoing, this type of logic and thought process will advance society no where.
If you actually watch it, those just basing opinions on comments, ghandi, dmaq, and the other guy are talking about style. If you look at both there is no argument which community has style. There should be no shame in being a nerd.When you look at the systems, you can have friends over and play on the xbox, while starcraft can only be played on one computer(unless there is a lot of laptops or computers). This is there opinion and they repeat over and over again that they are not bashing starcraft 2, they are just joking around. They go on and talk about the halo community problems.
This is what the entire thing started with. They are just trying to get the Halo community fired up. They are only praising SC2.
That trash talking video was just unprofessional and random. This video is what it's actually about.
This video should be added to the OP. This adds the context (you know destiny and niggers) to the whole swagger video.
I feel bad for them, they have a community falling apart, 2011 seems to have been a fiasco for Halo and the pros are not doing anything to keep the game alive.
at one point they even say that maybe the halo community needs to stop being so stylish and start being nerdy, organizing barcrafts, making shows, etc.
The big fear is not that the community will die, its the fact that the game might not be picked up my mlg if it is not popular enough to justify a cut of the budget.
Found the cast really interesting, listened to all of it.
On December 05 2011 17:22 CuSToM wrote: I don't care about Halo, or Call of Duty, or Street Fighter, or this whole "e-sports" movement or whatever the hell it is.
I like to play and watch Starcraft and that is all. I don't care what "our relationship with other games" is like.
fair enough
alot of people have this opinion, as long as you arn't being disrespectful to other communities. watching hundreds of people cry every time sc2 isn't on is so annoying especially when it isn't schedualed to be on, and ontop of that people with your opinion don't have to spew shit about how X game is super easy etc.
Hmmm... well first off I hope everyone treats fans of other games with a degree of respect.... though that doesn't seem to be what the video is about (I'm not going to watch the whole thing), but at the same time I can't help but feel Halo just doesn't have what it takes (imo) to be a very competitive FPS that will continue on. As people already have, if you compare it to games like CS and Quake... they are just in a different league.
Honestly if I had a Halo team, I would look into a new game like Tribes since that is a team game that is guaranteed to at least have moderate success based on the games business plan, and it also seems to be a game that will be more appealing as the fights will (again, imo) be more interesting to watch (though I have my concerns about how interesting the fights will be) the strategy will be more in depth, and the individual skill cap will be higher.
Also of course they keep mentioning the game may not get picked up, so that would also be a reason to switch over. I know at least one of them works for MLG, and they are talking about Halo like it is really up in the air for the next season. Then again maybe it is a way to get people motivated.
lol, Kennigt posted this on his twitter. I dono bad move on kenigits part I dont wana bash these guys or kennigit but we could really show how good the community is by giving the opposite responses I think Kenngit should be flamed slightyl or at least frowned at for twittering this and sending people ina negative way torwards these guys. Also Here are the pictures of the guys talking.
This is what the entire thing started with. They are just trying to get the Halo community fired up. They are only praising SC2.
That trash talking video was just unprofessional and random. This video is what it's actually about.
This video should be added to the OP. This adds the context (you know destiny and niggers) to the whole swagger video.
I feel bad for them, they have a community falling apart, 2011 seems to have been a fiasco for Halo and the pros are not doing anything to keep the game alive.
Desperate times for a Halo fan.
Yup, I PM'd the OP about it. This video is the actual show. They are reasonably talking about the state of halo and what needs to happen. Numerous times they point to the SC2 community to show the Halo community what they need to do. I believe when they were streaming they had 1k viewers which is pretty sad.
My favorite part:
"We were the king of the pawn league, and now we are the pawn of the king league, what's the big deal? Everyone is just so discouraged" - DMAQ
To be honest, the "style" part of the video in the OP shouldn't have even be there. They were just hasty and started talking shit for fun. Oh well.
On December 05 2011 17:49 MassacrisM wrote: These ignorant dolts clearly show their pathetic level of intelligence(and possibly the entire community's) and the laughable amount of effort it takes to be good at Halo compared to Starcraft.
FPS communities are so trash, except for the CS1.6 which is pretty much dead.
Quake? I'm not a fan, but it looked pretty competative when I was watching DH
On December 05 2011 15:39 Selendis wrote: I am actually starting to dislike bw and sc1 though. The complaints about sc2 being inferior to bw are wearing thin for me. I know we don't have a bonjwa yet, but that doesn't make our game inferior. It's only been a year and a few months, the game is still young.
The game will still be young in 4 years because of expansions and wtf is your point with bonjwa? It will never exist in sc2 if blizzard don't make the game harder.
Do we as a community helping e sports forward, encourage all games or our game?
Yes and no.
While we are a community, we are not centralized institution. We are one group with many different views and opinions. You can't ask these kind of questsions. Well, you can, but you won't get any satisfying answer.
I watched both videos and it's really sad to see a community dying. I think the things that really keep these games alive is having a good community website to spread around and report to. Seriously starcraft has grown so fast to what it is now because of Teamliquid and Reddit. I don't follow Halo much but is there an equivalent to TL with as many Stats/forum/strats to discuss the game and having the calender and stuff like that? Same goes for Fighting games I get all that info off TL. TL is my central for everything esports I heard about these videos and these people because of TL.
So I think it's fine that we can help them out or try to understand their game. Also they really weren't smack talking starcraft that much I mean if anything they are threatened by the success and the strength of our community more than anything.
EDIT: though to be honest it is funny that these guys are saying how hard it is to shoot in Halo... Man Shooting in quake is way more difficult. Though it is very fun to play Halo.
I'm really surprised people reacted so badly to this, it's really not a big deal, they were pretty light hearted about it and harsher on their own fans.
Only thing I don't understand is where they got the idea that Starcraft players don't consider themselves nerds, Tasteless and Artosis in particular have (in my opinion) helped us all become more comfortable with our inner (and outer) nerd.
On December 05 2011 19:06 Myrddraal wrote: I'm really surprised people reacted so badly to this, it's really not a big deal, they were pretty light hearted about it and harsher on their own fans.
Only thing I don't understand is where they got the idea that Starcraft players don't consider themselves nerds, Tasteless and Artosis in particular have (in my opinion) helped us all become more comfortable with our inner (and outer) nerd.
To be honest the stuff at the beginning was pretty useless. He argued that it was just to fire up his community, but if it even is successful it just seems like it will add to more condescending comments between communities in the future.
Later on they mentioned SC2 fans going through with their own projects/ideas like barcraft, and essentially said "Look at what they are doing... we need to do more of that. If you have an idea, just do it." That, in my opinion, is much better advice and it doesn't come across as a condescending remark towards SC2 fans, therefore decreasing the likeliness of Halo fans talking down on SC2.
I see nothing controversial or offensive about this video. I would think they're probably right in their generalization that the Halo community has better style than the SC2 community. And yes they're right that SC2 pro-gamers live and die for the game, while Halo players don't practice nearly as much and they do more stuff outside of the game. I don't see how that is an insult though, it just shows how much dedication SC2 pro-gamers have.
It's just a group of guys who are trying to rally their community together and get some support for Halo. They're trying to be a bit controversial.
LOL :D These guys are pretty good laugh to be honest. I don't feel offended as a SC2 player/fan.
In terms of hostility towards other communities, as a regular online racer (rFactor mostly), there isn't much negative I can't say towards any game out there that's trying to be as big as SC2. Maybe only LoL ? Coz I like "denying" creeps mainly :D
in the apologise video, the two guys on the right were really on fire lol. No wonder the sc2 community flames the video, especially with their attitude like that, joking or not. There is a fine line between jokes and stupid comparison.
That was group of guys sharing some frustration about their game going from center stage to sidelines and it was not productive and will probably help to hurt the image of their community. If not, it will hurt the image of their little show.
wait, i dont get any of your points about style or not doing anything outside the game. the only picture that had any style in it was the 1st, and that was only because those glasses were cool.
and that video makes it look like qxc is taking the piss rather than something he seriously does.
This is blown way bigger that it needs to be, they are way friendlier to us than we are to them and they are not bashing sc at all.At the start they were just joking around, completely normal and NOT offensive.
P.S. Many people in this thead really need to appreciate jokes here and there.
On December 05 2011 19:24 Shodanss wrote: This is blown way bigger that it needs to be, they are way friendlier to us than we are to them and they are not bashing sc at all.At the start they were just joking around, completely normal and NOT offensive.
P.S. Many people in this thead really need to appreciate jokes here and there.
This, just this because we are way meaner towards them than they are to us, defending a dying eSport is nothing to be blamed for.
I can honestly assume the first part of their video was meant to start something like this. They seem intelligent enough to realize what they are saying and when something sounds stupid.
The rest of the video is them being worried about Halo in the coming years and trying to figure out ways for them to be able to sustain everything, you might say I'm giving them more credit than they deserve about this but I can honestly assume that they did their initial part to gain a lot of attention from this community--be it good or bad, as long as they get some attention, regardless of how little, it helps them stay relevant
if any community is hard on other games and genres its ours imo... dunno why it is but it seems like our community is the ones that look like douche bags most of the time. Alot of comments in this thread are prime examples of that lol....
On December 05 2011 19:24 Shodanss wrote: This is blown way bigger that it needs to be, they are way friendlier to us than we are to them and they are not bashing sc at all.At the start they were just joking around, completely normal and NOT offensive.
P.S. Many people in this thead really need to appreciate jokes here and there.
Maybe people just didn't get what was suppose to be funny in that video. (of course I know they're joking and at least one of them is clearly drunk, but it's seriously not even a little bit funny)
I dont care bout the h8in' on the starcraft community, but why the hell do these people get attention in the Halo community? They seem like horrible figures, at least compared to like SOTG cast etc. They seem really douchy ^_^
On December 05 2011 19:24 Shodanss wrote: This is blown way bigger that it needs to be, they are way friendlier to us than we are to them and they are not bashing sc at all.At the start they were just joking around, completely normal and NOT offensive.
P.S. Many people in this thead really need to appreciate jokes here and there.
Maybe people just didn't get what was suppose to be funny in that video. (of course I know they're joking and at least one of them is clearly drunk, but it's seriously not even a little bit funny)
Its not meant to be funny for us, we're the butt of the joke. They clearly said it was to get their community to feel passionate about something. Making fun of us is like saying "we're better then these guys, come on!" which is what they were going for. Personally im not offended at all and can clearly see what they're trying to do for their own game, I dont mind it much at all seeing how it was all in fun.
Some of their points are valid, some of them are not. Style, i agree that a lot of people just don't have personality.
And i laughed at the part where these guys are complaining that sc2 players don't do anything except training. Bro, in this game you don't need to just press 4 buttons, you need to think at 20 things at the same time. This is why it takes a lot of time to master it. These guys don't have any clue on what they are talking about.
There is one basic tenet of video gaming: if someone is worse then you he is a noob; if he is better then he is a nerd. It applies here as well. SC2 is a larger and more serious esport than Halo. From our perspective they are noobs and from theirs we are nerds. There's no need to get mad at any of it. This system keeps everyone proud of themselves instead of realizing what noobs and nerds they are.
On December 05 2011 20:05 Superouman wrote: Some of their points are valid, some of them are not. Style, i agree that a lot of people just don't have personality.
And i laughed at the part where these guys are complaining that sc2 players don't do anything except training. Bro, in this game you don't need to just press 4 buttons, you need to think at 20 things at the same time. This is why it takes a lot of time to master it. These guys don't have any clue on what they are talking about.
So you respond to ignorance with more ignorance?
People really need to stop bashing Halo just because it's a console FPS. If you haven't ever tried competitive halo, you don't really know what it's like. Actually, a lot of people have just played a match or two of one of the standard playlists, without realizing that competitive halo is nothing like it. It's like a new player playing a match of monobattles, and then bashing starcraft for being bad.
As for the hosts, Ghandhi (the guy on the left), if an ex-pro. During his playing career, he was known for his funny thrash talk. The other two are also ex pros, but not that we'll known.
Finally for someone who has never followed Halo, I recommend you watch this:
How do you guys react to a video like this, what does it mean to you, what would you like to see done?
I honestly don't care what anyone from the halo community says. I understand that they were trying to fuel their own community but really..? Why take any shots at another community? Especially one that is far superior than theirs one that theirs should strive to become. I mean I look at the actual professional scene for ANYTHING hockey, football, soccer, ect, all those players don't have any extra time to do much outside their sport they're always on the road they're always thinking about how they can improve and thrive in their own scene, I'm terribly sorry that halo only has 1 major tournament scene and that only goes for the 8 or 9 events per year, and I'm terribly sorry that your community even at the highest level don't play for 12 hours a day to become the best in the scene. I'm also VERY VERY sad that the halo competitive scene is quite lazy, as stated by them they need a fucking coach behind them to call out timings for weapons and ect, I don't see that in quake, a game that is quite similar if you think about it. I'm sorry a stronger longer lasting community came in and took the spotlight from the Halo scene but unfortunately our community deserves it more and halo's time is coming to a close. Maybe, just maybe if the console scene was smart and didn't think that newer means better, MAYBE your scene would've thrived a lot better by staying with halo 2 instead of ditching it the second a newer "better" version came out, the same goes for the COD scene, everyone knows that COD4 and MW2 were superior games to the rest but EVERYONE jump shipped and left the gems to rot.
There are so many communities that deserve the spot that Halo has in MLG right now far more than halo does. Halo is a competitive console shooter with a low skill cap and players who want the most without putting much in. Sadly to say if MLG died tonight, Halo would be a community that died with it, starcraft wouldn't. I just don't see the need to bash on ANY community specially if yours is slacking, bashing on someones community doesn't get people excited for your game, as a matter of fact I'm less inclined to watch and support halo a game I ALSO grew up with just because of the simple fact that the halo community is butt hurt when a game that is more deserving and a community that is more enthusiastic about their game takes the spotlight. What happens when MLG picks up CS:GO and any one of the MOBA games and they draw crowds that are 2 to 3 times bigger than the Halo crowed?
TL;DR get rid of the 12 year olds in your game, make your pro's have to play 10 hours a day and be unstylish, get rid of the standard halo "coaches" because they honestly don't do fuck all for the competitive scene, and lose the we were here first so we deserve it more attitude. If this community was opposite and the sc2 community was where the halo community is at we wouldn't even have that bottom position. Appreciate what MLG did for Halo AKA created its competitive scene, and try and fucking improve on it instead of bashing another community, that can actually sustain itself outside of MLG. Shitting on someone else's community doesn't do anything but boost your ego and thats pretty fucking arrogant especially since you're on the bottom of the food chain. Who cares who is more stylish? We're all fucking nerds as you said, nerds aren't stylish, I'm glad that a lot of your pro's can afford to have a life outside of halo, but thats why you're on the fucking bottom. No one takes the game as serious as a career even if there isn't the money to have a career off of it, THAT IS WHERE YOUR GAME SLACKS THAT IS WHERE YOUR COMMUNITY IS BROKEN. If one player played for 10 hours a day every day and got everything perfect or close to perfect it would push the skill cap up, once that happens everyone has to get better and the only way they can do that is play for 10 hours a day, once you have a pro scene playing for 10 hours a day every day you can go look for SERIOUS fucking coaches and serious teams that will sponsor you, house you, and feed you. THEY WILL GIVE YOU A PROFESSION. But that's ok if you want to look "stylish" and get shitfaced every night and have a heavy social life outside of your game then 2nd place is where you're going to stay until some other community does exactly what I just said. I would've thought a group with 22 or however many years worth of gaming would understand that but I suppose all 22 years are spent on a console and you guys have never had any of that shit. :/
Where's MasterChiefs custom Nikes yo? Oh right I forgot, he can't wear Nikes because he's too busy prancing around in his green metallic onesie.
Probrem? Come at me Halo Community.
Someone fly me to MLG and I'll win a rap battle too. Only 7k, I heard the Starcraft community likes to give money away. I'll even pretend to be a girl if needs be.
i hope that appeal to the halo community wasn't sincere. especially since they know a lot of sc2 players would get referred to that video. kind of embarrassing if it was sincere for sure.
How do you guys react to a video like this, what does it mean to you, what would you like to see done?
I honestly don't care what anyone from the halo community says. I understand that they were trying to fuel their own community but really..? Why take any shots at another community? Especially one that is far superior than theirs one that theirs should strive to become. I mean I look at the actual professional scene for ANYTHING hockey, football, soccer, ect, all those players don't have any extra time to do much outside their sport they're always on the road they're always thinking about how they can improve and thrive in their own scene, I'm terribly sorry that halo only has 1 major tournament scene and that only goes for the 8 or 9 events per year, and I'm terribly sorry that your community even at the highest level don't play for 12 hours a day to become the best in the scene. I'm also VERY VERY sad that the halo competitive scene is quite lazy, as stated by them they need a fucking coach behind them to call out timings for weapons and ect, I don't see that in quake, a game that is quite similar if you think about it. I'm sorry a stronger longer lasting community came in and took the spotlight from the Halo scene but unfortunately our community deserves it more and halo's time is coming to a close. Maybe, just maybe if the console scene was smart and didn't think that newer means better, MAYBE your scene would've thrived a lot better by staying with halo 2 instead of ditching it the second a newer "better" version came out, the same goes for the COD scene, everyone knows that COD4 and MW2 were superior games to the rest but EVERYONE jump shipped and left the gems to rot.
There are so many communities that deserve the spot that Halo has in MLG right now far more than halo does. Halo is a competitive console shooter with a low skill cap and players who want the most without putting much in. Sadly to say if MLG died tonight, Halo would be a community that died with it, starcraft wouldn't. I just don't see the need to bash on ANY community specially if yours is slacking, bashing on someones community doesn't get people excited for your game, as a matter of fact I'm less inclined to watch and support halo a game I ALSO grew up with just because of the simple fact that the halo community is butt hurt when a game that is more deserving and a community that is more enthusiastic about their game takes the spotlight. What happens when MLG picks up CS:GO and any one of the MOBA games and they draw crowds that are 2 to 3 times bigger than the Halo crowed?
TL;DR get rid of the 12 year olds in your game, make your pro's have to play 10 hours a day and be unstylish, get rid of the standard halo "coaches" because they honestly don't do fuck all for the competitive scene, and lose the we were here first so we deserve it more attitude. If this community was opposite and the sc2 community was where the halo community is at we wouldn't even have that bottom position. Appreciate what MLG did for Halo AKA created its competitive scene, and try and fucking improve on it instead of bashing another community, that can actually sustain itself outside of MLG. Shitting on someone else's community doesn't do anything but boost your ego and thats pretty fucking arrogant especially since you're on the bottom of the food chain. Who cares who is more stylish? We're all fucking nerds as you said, nerds aren't stylish, I'm glad that a lot of your pro's can afford to have a life outside of halo, but thats why you're on the fucking bottom. No one takes the game as serious as a career even if there isn't the money to have a career off of it, THAT IS WHERE YOUR GAME SLACKS THAT IS WHERE YOUR COMMUNITY IS BROKEN. If one player played for 10 hours a day every day and got everything perfect or close to perfect it would push the skill cap up, once that happens everyone has to get better and the only way they can do that is play for 10 hours a day, once you have a pro scene playing for 10 hours a day every day you can go look for SERIOUS fucking coaches and serious teams that will sponsor you, house you, and feed you. THEY WILL GIVE YOU A PROFESSION. But that's ok if you want to look "stylish" and get shitfaced every night and have a heavy social life outside of your game then 2nd place is where you're going to stay until some other community does exactly what I just said. I would've thought a group with 22 or however many years worth of gaming would understand that but I suppose all 22 years are spent on a console and you guys have never had any of that shit. :/
lol, calm down. They were joking around. If you don't care what they have to say, then why are you typing up a storm about it? They only took a little poke at style. They praised the SC2 community throughout the rest of the video.
I don't get it. They (and some people here) say that their being respectful and just have a passion for their own game. Then why did they pull SC2 to the conversation? Is it because it's taking their space in MLG? Well boohoo, claiming that people who practically have nothing to do with these guys, are not stylish has dick to do with anything. Yeah their trying to pump their own community up to try and breath some life into Halo but seriously, saying that another community is less STYLISH than they are and people agreeing with that it's a good point just makes them look like huge douches.
On December 05 2011 20:37 joopajoo wrote: I don't get it. They (and some people here) say that their being respectful and just have a passion for their own game. Then why did they pull SC2 to the conversation? Is it because it's taking their space in MLG? Well boohoo, claiming that people who practically have nothing to do with these guys, are not stylish has dick to do with anything. Yeah their trying to pump their own community up to try and breath some life into Halo but seriously, saying that another community is less STYLISH than they are and people agreeing with that it's a good point just makes them look like huge douches.
disregard their message. it doesn't mean anything. they just want your eyes did you even know these 3 existed before you saw this vid? i know i didn't
On December 05 2011 20:35 Spaceneil8 wrote: lol, calm down. They were joking around. If you don't care what they have to say, then why are you typing up a storm about it? They only took a little poke at style. They praised the SC2 community throughout the rest of the video.
They don't have the rights to poke at anything. I loved halo when halo was at it's peak. Its just shitty that people are so fucking sour that they have to go on a talk show to express their feelings about having a bad community. But they go off about telling their community to just go do things. Well starting up a talk show to be sour isn't really the best thing to do if you want a good community. It's just funny because any time I go on halo its a bunch of trash talking children, and now I understand where they get it from. The "pro" scene and the hardcore fans, no wonder the rest of their scene is stuck in a rut because they're ALL like this and its just a joke. I honestly wish halo had higher stature its just sad that it doesn't because of childish things such as that video.
No problem. I don't really mind that the SC-scene is more about the actual gameplay, than what shoes the players wear or if they went fishing over the weekend.
This is what the entire thing started with. They are just trying to get the Halo community fired up. They are only praising SC2.
That trash talking video was just unprofessional and random. This video is what it's actually about.
Please add this to the OP. Context is important. They're not lying when they say that they don't want to bash the Starcraft 2 community, but only want to get Halo motivated. They don't hate Starcraft (or its fans).
I don't actually care about other games. This means that i don't support other games but I don't bash them either. For Esports all I care is StarCraft.
I think not only should we let Halo die, but we should encourage it's death and replace it with a good FPS game like CS or Quake.
Can you imagine the dominance MLG will have over other eSports events with a line-up of Starcraft 2, League of Legends, Quake Live, CS:GO? A man can dream.....
The fact that they had to apologize is ridiculous. They say in the original video that they were 1) joking around and 2) didn't even mean half of what they said. This is beyond silly.
If you watch the apology, he mentions Destiny shitting on Halo comparing elementary --> college and Halo ---> SC2. We don't sit there yelling at Destiny for it, and if Halo bit back like the community did here we'd laugh at Halo and say that they were overreacting.
Seriously...they weren't even shitting on us. This is another one of those situations where I don't even begin to understand what's going on with the Reddit hivemind.
On December 05 2011 21:10 Mauldo wrote: The fact that they had to apologize is ridiculous. They say in the original video that they were 1) joking around and 2) didn't even mean half of what they said. This is beyond silly.
If you watch the apology, he mentions Destiny shitting on Halo comparing elementary --> college and Halo ---> SC2. We don't sit there yelling at Destiny for it, and if Halo bit back like the community did here we'd laugh at Halo and say that they were overreacting.
Seriously...they weren't even shitting on us. This is another one of those situations where I don't even begin to understand what's going on with the Reddit hivemind.
On December 05 2011 11:17 Fionn wrote: In all honesty, they don't seem very harsh. They're just playing around and joking. Some of their points are valid.
But hosting a Skype video blogcast about Halo is nerdy as well. E-sports in general are nerdy. Shit, sport fats are sport nerds.
They also identified themselves as nerds.. theres no way ppl are getting offended or even bothered by this right? They were kinda funny and i love the fact that they acknowledged WhiteRa as being a total boss.
This is what the entire thing started with. They are just trying to get the Halo community fired up. They are only praising SC2.
That trash talking video was just unprofessional and random. This video is what it's actually about.
Well that is a lot more eye opening than the original video, this should really be put in the first post--less stupid drama and actual opinions
Yeah, they bring on actual Halo Reach pros to talk about basically the "State of Halo". It's worth a listen if you want to give Halo a shot. Next season should be much better if it is there.
My name is Hammertime and I produce shows for Gandhi and The Halo Council. I just wanted to say that I'm extremely happy that a majority of you understand that the video where we poked fun at SC2 was not serious. I just wanted to say that for myself and many of the staff I work with on these shows, we all either play, watch or love StarCraft in some sense or another!
@4minutes: When did we as a starcraft community not say we're nerdy? We're nerdy to the max here, what's the issue?
I realise that the halo community feel like we ran them over with MLG. However, our game being more competitive, hence players putting more time into it isn't bad for it as an e-sport.
How we dress? What?
I dont understand why this is such a problem, also they having more class? Imo the halo community and FPS communities in general have a lot less class (aside from q3) because they're audience is in general less mature than the starcraft community. And yonger communities are more immature.
Sry but are they some kind of retarded? Ofc most people of a GAMING community are nerds...and it's ok if they care about stupid style (IMO his hat looks rly stupid)... I mean they talked about being absolutely nerdy and not doing anything else than playing SCII...does he rly want to tell us that "fishing" as a hobby outside of the game makes someone not-nerdy? I mean WTF they are just talking completely trash imo. By the way, he said that you have to invest so much time to play on a competetive level...which is a sign of how good a game is, as long as it doesn't involve just having to invest time, coz of stupid leveling or sth like this as we can find it in WoW.
On December 05 2011 21:43 GeOnoSis wrote: Sry but are they some kind of retarded? Ofc most people of a GAMING community are nerds...and it's ok if they care about stupid style (IMO his hat looks rly stupid)... I mean they talked about being absolutely nerdy and not doing anything else than playing SCII...does he rly want to tell us that "fishing" as a hobby outside of the game makes someone not-nerdy? I mean WTF they are just talking completely trash imo. By the way, he said that you have to invest so much time to play on a competetive level...which is a sign of how good a game is, as long as it doesn't involve just having to invest time, coz of stupid leveling or sth like this as we can find it in WoW.
You (and a lot of people) are thinking in black and white.
FPS/FGC fall into the gray area, whereas ARTS/RTS are just black.
Criticizing nerds for being more nerdy isn't so bad, the gray area is good.
On December 05 2011 21:43 Mantraz wrote: @4minutes: When did we as a starcraft community not say we're nerdy? We're nerdy to the max here, what's the issue?
I realise that the halo community feel like we ran them over with MLG. However, our game being more competitive, hence players putting more time into it isn't bad for it as an e-sport.
How we dress? What?
I dont understand why this is such a problem, also they having more class? Imo the halo community and FPS communities in general have a lot less class (aside from q3) because they're audience is in general less mature than the starcraft community. And yonger communities are more immature.
@15 mins
They say the Halo community needs to be more nerdy. They need to do stuff. They cite barcrafts, and sc2 community involvement etc etc.
It's all light hearted, just to prove a point to the Halo community.
i think the main problem is right at the beginning, people don't tend to watch the entire 1 hour video if they can see their point right away in the first 10 minutes, and what's in the first 10 minutes of the video? stupid jokes that sounds like coming from a 8 years old child. Man, seriously, they really need to learn how to be "funny" and constructing their points properly.
Why people throwing such a bitch-fit about this? Most of the pokes made at the starcraft community were made jokingly and out of frustration that there community is dying. The broodwar community on team liquid has made much worst comments about the starcraft 2 community than the comments made in this video and more serious at that. Seriously guys grow some thicker skin.
P.S. The commentary about the starcraft community were definitely not made by people who have:
@Hnnngg I'm not sure about your opinion.. I guess your right and I look at this very critical, but that kind of also decides, if there is an ESports-community or a Starcraft- and a Halo- and a LoL-....Community. So what are we talking about? Some casters mentioned we as SCII community shouldnt talk bad about other e-sports/games. But they can? That's still just stupid in my opinion, we need to decide whether there is a "All-together-Esports-Community" or not.
On December 05 2011 21:43 Mantraz wrote: @4minutes: When did we as a starcraft community not say we're nerdy? We're nerdy to the max here, what's the issue?
I realise that the halo community feel like we ran them over with MLG. However, our game being more competitive, hence players putting more time into it isn't bad for it as an e-sport.
How we dress? What?
I dont understand why this is such a problem, also they having more class? Imo the halo community and FPS communities in general have a lot less class (aside from q3) because they're audience is in general less mature than the starcraft community. And yonger communities are more immature.
@15 mins
They say the Halo community needs to be more nerdy. They need to do stuff. They cite barcrafts, and sc2 community involvement etc etc.
It's all light hearted, just to prove a point to the Halo community.
well thats probably never gonna happen. look at the "communities" of other games. lol and halo and all the rest, theres no community. sometimes theres a forum and a reddit page and an event, but thats not community. teamliquid for all of its pros and cons fosters real community. the BW importance of good manners has helped show the sc2 community a real way to play together, help each other and build a better scene through that.
charity events, helping out people stranded in hotels, flying mkp to mlg. all these things show that sc watchers give a shit. ive never heard of anything like this being done by anyone else. id love to stand corrected because then i would be hopeful that other games can join sc2 at the top of the table, showing that esports in general is a big deal, but from what ive seen sc2 is kinda out on its own atm.
On December 05 2011 21:56 GeOnoSis wrote: @Hnnngg I'm not sure about your opinion.. I guess your right and I look at this very critical, but that kind of also decides, if there is an ESports-community or a Starcraft- and a Halo- and a LoL-....Community. So what are we talking about? Some casters mentioned we as SCII community shouldnt talk bad about other e-sports/games. But they can? That's still just stupid in my opinion, we need to decide whether there is a "All-together-Esports-Community" or not.
They aren't talking about the game. They love the game.
Starcraft fans either 1.) Isolationist koreaboos who hate other games, 2.) Average (majority) joes who just flat-out don't care about other games and think that SC2 can stand alone, 3.) Super mega minority of eSports (not just SC2) fans who want everything to grow.
Starcraft fans also complain about other communities, especially FGC. But that's fine, knocking on each other isn't going to hurt the games/eSport. But saying Halo is for casuals and teenagers really shows how far the TL cesspool goes.
On December 05 2011 21:26 MLGHammertime wrote: Hello,
My name is Hammertime and I produce shows for Gandhi and The Halo Council. I just wanted to say that I'm extremely happy that a majority of you understand that the video where we poked fun at SC2 was not serious. I just wanted to say that for myself and many of the staff I work with on these shows, we all either play, watch or love StarCraft in some sense or another!
Thanks!
Thanks for visiting. And thank you for not escalating this any further. This was never worthy of a thread, it is hard to fathom that anyone would get upset about this. The fact that someone sees this video, or perhaps more likely just reads about it, then goes on to be shocked about some comment about a community having better dress sense, only to respond with comments about a game being inferior, hoping it would die and worse is just sad.
Anyone with a level head will just take note of this, perhaps shake their heads then move on.
On December 05 2011 21:43 Mantraz wrote: @4minutes: When did we as a starcraft community not say we're nerdy? We're nerdy to the max here, what's the issue?
I realise that the halo community feel like we ran them over with MLG. However, our game being more competitive, hence players putting more time into it isn't bad for it as an e-sport.
How we dress? What?
I dont understand why this is such a problem, also they having more class? Imo the halo community and FPS communities in general have a lot less class (aside from q3) because they're audience is in general less mature than the starcraft community. And yonger communities are more immature.
@15 mins
They say the Halo community needs to be more nerdy. They need to do stuff. They cite barcrafts, and sc2 community involvement etc etc.
It's all light hearted, just to prove a point to the Halo community.
well thats probably never gonna happen. look at the "communities" of other games. lol and halo and all the rest, theres no community. sometimes theres a forum and a reddit page and an event, but thats not community. teamliquid for all of its pros and cons fosters real community. the BW importance of good manners has helped show the sc2 community a real way to play together, help each other and build a better scene through that.
charity events, helping out people stranded in hotels, flying mkp to mlg. all these things show that sc watchers give a shit. ive never heard of anything like this being done by anyone else. id love to stand corrected because then i would be hopeful that other games can join sc2 at the top of the table, showing that esports in general is a big deal, but from what ive seen sc2 is kinda out on its own atm.
I mean Halo is dying. There's no way of getting around that. The SC2 community is booming. The LoL community is pretty big afaik. They are just trying to bring people back that used to support Halo. Rally the troops essentially.
On December 05 2011 16:19 ComaDose wrote: [*] No you definitely do not dress better than me. [*] Yeah wow.... shit that does suck that you were at the top now your at the bottom... sorry... [*] Thanks for agreeing we are cool [*] Bitch we've worn space suits, don't talk to me about style. [*] Any nerd worth their apm wont deny they are a nerd
Actually I think it DOES hurt eSports. We want to continue growing and ppl who see this, which are not really into eSports will quickly have a bad/worse opinion about it.
On December 05 2011 22:13 GeOnoSis wrote: Actually I think it DOES hurt eSports. We want to continue growing and ppl who see this, which are not really into eSports will quickly have a bad/worse opinion about it.
I don't know if you know, but the people who watch this are into eSports.
They kind of created MLG, you know probably the best tournament outside of GSL.
On December 05 2011 22:13 GeOnoSis wrote: Actually I think it DOES hurt eSports. We want to continue growing and ppl who see this, which are not really into eSports will quickly have a bad/worse opinion about it.
This needs to be added to the OP then, so people will have a better opinion.
This is just three failed halo pro gamers who miss the good old days when mlg was only about halo. Don't take them serious, they are all obviously drunk, and don't do the mistake to think that these guys represent everyone in the halo community. Plus halo community has a lot more immature kids in it (mainly because the game itself is pretty brainfree, given that it is a shooter) so don't take them to too serious.
Oh and at the people saying halo is a shitty shooter: Now I have played my fair share of cs (both), quake and halo. The issue with halo is that each new part is about 10x times worse than the previous one. The original halo is easily on level with cs 1.6, now quake is obviously far above halo, but you can say that about every shooter when you compare it to quake. Halo 2 got safed by a shit lot of glitches which added to the skill gap of the game, and given that source is a joke I'd even put it above that. Now Halo 3 and Halo Reach are just terrible shit games, both probably on par with cod 4-idon'tknowwheretheyarenow.
When these idiots actually say on camera that they need to shit on SC2's community just to get a shred of relevance for a day or two, I think not much more needs to be said.
Ofc I know that most of the ppl, watching this are into eSports, but I just think of ppl sharing this somewhere or sth and other guys watching it. Yea it's very far-thinking but that's how it is. If you care or not is your decision and being one of the funder of such a tournament is really really great, but it doesn't allow anybody to talk shit. But yea, I probably see this in a very serious light. (Sry for bad english btw, if there are many mistakes :D)
On December 05 2011 22:23 GeOnoSis wrote: Ofc I know that most of the ppl, watching this are into eSports, but I just think of ppl sharing this somewhere or sth and other guys watching it. Yea it's very far-thinking but that's how it is. If you care or not is your decision and being one of the funder of such a tournament is really really great, but it doesn't allow anybody to talk shit. But yea, I probably see this in a very serious light. (Sry for bad english btw, if there are many mistakes :D)
People watching this could only have a bad opinion about SC2 players (not the game, they said multiple times the game is good).
Which is not blasphemy, people can and should be critical of the SC2 community and players.
I think nowadays the community is a huge factor, especially when the games are getting more and more competetive. Because in such those games, the community IS the game. And Starcraft 2 and Halo are such those games.
Halo community has shrunk alot, and their pro scene is barely living, Modern Warfare 1 came out and kinda stole the thunder away from Halo in the minds of the casual console FPS gamer.
In the pro scene however SC2 has taken a huge chunk of MLGs time, MLG is the biggest Halo-esque esports event, outside of a few rare cases its the only thing they have.
So no wonder some of them may resent SC2, where MLG is "beneath" GSL, Dreamhack, IPL even and plenty of other tournaments. Make no mistake, they dont want to be us, they do not want to listen to SNSD or check out Nadas body, but they do envy how big SC2 is right now, and their own game is being shunned and basically forgotten about. Call of Duty stole the casuals while SC2 stole MLG, add to the fact that Bungie the creators behind Halo games are done with Halo, chances are that the franchise will severly diminish in quality.
i honestly think it's suicide to any E-Sport to have any kind of attack on SC2 and the community right now. i don't think it helped their case in anyway by doing so, they're trying to bring up their community by trash talking.
On December 05 2011 22:36 hahaimhenry wrote: i honestly think it's suicide to any E-Sport to have any kind of attack on SC2 and the community right now. i don't think it helped their case in anyway by doing so, they're trying to bring up their community by trash talking.
SC2 players thrive on trash talking btw
Competition breeds excellence.
Where's the desire to grow without the King to usurp?
Like they said, Halo community feels defeated that "their" league has been stolen and they've also been complacent with their massive dominance over MLG.
That's what they videos are for, they can dress better than us so they can also be the best game of MLG. That's the "message' they want to send to the Halo community.
On December 05 2011 22:36 hahaimhenry wrote: i honestly think it's suicide to any E-Sport to have any kind of attack on SC2 and the community right now. i don't think it helped their case in anyway by doing so, they're trying to bring up their community by trash talking.
SC2 players thrive on trash talking btw
Competition breeds excellence.
Where's the desire to grow without the King to usurp?
Like they said, Halo community feels defeated that "their" league has been stolen and they've also been complacent with their massive dominance over MLG.
That's what they videos are for, they can dress better than us so they can also be the best game of MLG. That's the "message' they want to send to the Halo community.
No, the videos is about how the Halo community needs to learn to stand on its own and not be controled by MLG. They talk about how they need to be as passionate, "nerdy" and creative as the SC2 community and start making content, forums etc. for the love of the game and not just sit and wait for what MLG will do.
The whole thing is about shaking up the community. In two videos with over 2 h of debate and constructive critism over its own community compared to SC2 and other gaming communitys, they joke around for 5-8 min about style and swagger compared to SC2.
This is apparently a deadly sin according to some. This time TL has even managed to be more drama llama than Reddit.
On December 05 2011 22:36 hahaimhenry wrote: i honestly think it's suicide to any E-Sport to have any kind of attack on SC2 and the community right now. i don't think it helped their case in anyway by doing so, they're trying to bring up their community by trash talking.
SC2 players thrive on trash talking btw
Competition breeds excellence.
Where's the desire to grow without the King to usurp?
Like they said, Halo community feels defeated that "their" league has been stolen and they've also been complacent with their massive dominance over MLG.
That's what they videos are for, they can dress better than us so they can also be the best game of MLG. That's the "message' they want to send to the Halo community.
No, the videos is about how the Halo community needs to learn to stand on its own and not be controled by MLG. They talk about how they need to be as passionate, "nerdy" and creative as the SC2 community and start making content, forums etc. for the love of the game and not just sit and wait for what MLG will do.
The whole thing is about shaking up the community. In two videos with over 2 h of debate and constructive critism over its own community compared to SC2 and other gaming communitys, they joke around for 5-8 min about style and swagger compared to SC2.
This is apparently a deadly sin according to some. This time TL has even managed to be more drama llama than Reddit.
There's a difference between waiting for MLG to make a move and forcing MLG to make a move.
Halo wouldn't have success outside of their own events/MLG because it is a console FPS. They do want to emulate SC2 community, but also want to maintain their own flavor. Being passionate, "nerdy" and creative isn't SC2 exclusive and SC2 shouldn't be credited for those ideas (despite using them successfully).
They talk about how Halo is shrinking, and the reasons for it. Essentially their community can't sustain itself without MLG supporting it, and they are trying to understand how to save the community.
PLEASE watch this whole video, looking at the comments it is quite clear that you all watched the first 5 minutes then stopped at that. The point of the video can be summed up with this comment by DMaq
We talk about Halo fans being stylish, maybe y'all motherfxckers are a little too stylish. You need to start seeing what is happening with the community and getting involved. Be a little more nerdy, because we need you.
I may be a bit biased because I grew up with Halo 1 & 2, playing and watching it religiously, but this doesn't sound to me like they are ripping on Starcraft at all, in fact this is stemming from them wanting to be even half as good as the Starcraft community. They want the Halo community to be better, they need to respect the people within the community and step up and try and do things like Barcraft.
Edit: Go to 39:47 on the video, Nexy has the Zerg symbol on his astro's, would someone who hates a game get that on his gear? I think not
From the way they make it sound, the Halo community needs to take some lessons from the fighting game community. Grassroots style growth from year to year even without any sponsors or new games. If you rely on MLG for your community, and something bigger comes along for MLG to support... this is where you find yourself.
I do like that they're going to actively try to do something about it. honestly, facebook is godlike for organizing local communities for this kind of stuff.
Because this is relevant to the topic of discussion, and there has been a lot of discussion about fighting games and their role in the "greater eSports scene" instead of being insular the way they are right now, a post was recently posted on Shoryuken (a site that some can consider to be the TeamLiquid of the FGC) about their involvement in eSports tournaments such as MLG, IPL, etc.
It's sparked a good amount of discussion on Twitter both among the SC2 community and the FGC. I was wondering what everyone has to say about it?
Personally, I don't know enough about MLG beforehand to know whether or not some of the claims they make are correct. I do follow EVO every year, and on a pure production quality and interest standpoint, there's nothing stopping the FGC from succeeding in eSports. Every time I go on Twitter these days, I see more SC2 people talking about fighting games, and I see more prominent fighting game players talking about SC2 events. There's bleeding between the scenes already, but something is stopping it from going the full length.
They talk about how Halo is shrinking, and the reasons for it. Essentially their community can't sustain itself without MLG supporting it, and they are trying to understand how to save the community.
The video in the OP is just for lols.
"Can't hate on Starcraft cause you know you're going to lose, that's a fact."
Haha, they may be not that much of idiots.
I understand they want to shake up their community but I don't think hatin' on other games is the way to do it. Comparison to other games is fine, I'm sure they could learn a thing or two from both the BW and SC2 scene.. but I understand that if it was the SC2 scene that was under threat I would be anxiously angry as well.
On December 05 2011 22:36 hahaimhenry wrote: i honestly think it's suicide to any E-Sport to have any kind of attack on SC2 and the community right now. i don't think it helped their case in anyway by doing so, they're trying to bring up their community by trash talking.
SC2 players thrive on trash talking btw
Competition breeds excellence.
Where's the desire to grow without the King to usurp?
Like they said, Halo community feels defeated that "their" league has been stolen and they've also been complacent with their massive dominance over MLG.
That's what they videos are for, they can dress better than us so they can also be the best game of MLG. That's the "message' they want to send to the Halo community.
No, the videos is about how the Halo community needs to learn to stand on its own and not be controled by MLG. They talk about how they need to be as passionate, "nerdy" and creative as the SC2 community and start making content, forums etc. for the love of the game and not just sit and wait for what MLG will do.
The whole thing is about shaking up the community. In two videos with over 2 h of debate and constructive critism over its own community compared to SC2 and other gaming communitys, they joke around for 5-8 min about style and swagger compared to SC2.
This is apparently a deadly sin according to some. This time TL has even managed to be more drama llama than Reddit.
There's a difference between waiting for MLG to make a move and forcing MLG to make a move.
Halo wouldn't have success outside of their own events/MLG because it is a console FPS. They do want to emulate SC2 community, but also want to maintain their own flavor. Being passionate, "nerdy" and creative isn't SC2 exclusive and SC2 shouldn't be credited for those ideas (despite using them successfully).
It's not because it is a console fps, it's because they've been babied by mlg for too long. If this was in the halo 2 or 1 days it wouldnt die if mlg dropped it.
Yeah, they don't really seem to be talking about anything at all. It's the definition of just running your mouth, and their opinion isn't really drawing from anything. They even go so far as to say they are just shitting on Starcraft in order to get Halo fans to step up (????), so this makes even less sense to me. Shouldn't you be celebrating the dedication of Starcraft players, whether they are nerdy or have style is irrelevant, instead of shitting on them and then saying that this will somehow inspire Halo fans?
In fact, my main take away is that they even know about our players seems like a win for me. If they want to troll, which this really seems to be, then go ahead. But, we're taking over their games and we're doing it because it is a better viewing experience and because our fanbase is larger and more passionate.
I don't even dislike Halo, I just love SC2 way more and find it way more enjoyable. I wish the best for them, I think they need to investigate their tactics for growth here.
On December 05 2011 22:36 hahaimhenry wrote: i honestly think it's suicide to any E-Sport to have any kind of attack on SC2 and the community right now. i don't think it helped their case in anyway by doing so, they're trying to bring up their community by trash talking.
SC2 players thrive on trash talking btw
Competition breeds excellence.
Where's the desire to grow without the King to usurp?
Like they said, Halo community feels defeated that "their" league has been stolen and they've also been complacent with their massive dominance over MLG.
That's what they videos are for, they can dress better than us so they can also be the best game of MLG. That's the "message' they want to send to the Halo community.
No, the videos is about how the Halo community needs to learn to stand on its own and not be controled by MLG. They talk about how they need to be as passionate, "nerdy" and creative as the SC2 community and start making content, forums etc. for the love of the game and not just sit and wait for what MLG will do.
The whole thing is about shaking up the community. In two videos with over 2 h of debate and constructive critism over its own community compared to SC2 and other gaming communitys, they joke around for 5-8 min about style and swagger compared to SC2.
This is apparently a deadly sin according to some. This time TL has even managed to be more drama llama than Reddit.
Making fun of a fanbase in order to encourage their own fanbase seems counter the idea of giving constructive criticism. They could have just skipped that segment entirely, or simply just talked about how cool Halo guys were without jabbing so much at Starcraft. Obviously they are just trying to stir the pot and get views, but its all a little silly and distracting from what are otherwise good points.
On December 05 2011 23:12 Jampackedeon wrote: Yeah, they don't really seem to be talking about anything at all. It's the definition of just running your mouth, and their opinion isn't really drawing from anything. They even go so far as to say they are just shitting on Starcraft in order to get Halo fans to step up (????), so this makes even less sense to me. Shouldn't you be celebrating the dedication of Starcraft players, whether they are nerdy or have style is irrelevant, instead of shitting on them and then saying that this will somehow inspire Halo fans?
In fact, my main take away is that they even know about our players seems like a win for me. If they want to troll, which this really seems to be, then go ahead. But, we're taking over their games and we're doing it because it is a better viewing experience and because our fanbase is larger and more passionate.
I don't even dislike Halo, I just love SC2 way more and find it way more enjoyable. I wish the best for them, I think they need to investigate their tactics for growth here.
Later on in the video, 15 mins ish, they say halo fans should be more like the nerd ballers on the sc2 side and get involved. They praise sc2 for most of the 50 mins and use it as an example for success.
On December 05 2011 11:37 AhhBoxxah wrote: Epitome of ignorance -> good troll thanks for the video :D
eh the video gets boring after first 6ish minutes
That right here is the problem, if everyone is like this they are only seeing the first 5 minutes of the video where yes, they do rip on Starcraft, the other 45 minutes they are praising the players and the community and saying how they want Halo to be more like it
neither halo nor Cod should be considered an esport sadly, and the only reason Cod is is because Sony sponsors it i think (they play it on ps3, not 360 if i remember right)
On December 05 2011 23:52 Sackings wrote: neither halo nor Cod should be considered an esport sadly, and the only reason Cod is is because Sony sponsors it i think (they play it on ps3, not 360 if i remember right)
Opinions like this just annoy me, because it seems like you're saying that because they're not SC then they can't be an e-sport. You might not have this opinion, but I've seen many other comments in this thread about people not thinking that FPS's in general should be esports. This is just annoying because these types of games THRIVED for a very long time, everywhere from COD1 to Counterstrike 1.6, having prizepools larger than most today. They were staples of the CPL for a number of years and might still be alive today if not for the fucked up owner of the CPL not paying winning teams their prize money. When people say this, I don't think that they actually understand all of the little intricacies involved at actually taking your game to the next level.
These games (not sure about halo, and more recent versions of cod) involve just as much of the mind game as starcraft. It requires IMMENSE teamwork and communication.
I just don't really like these constant opinions of these kinds of games not being e-sports as they really could have been to this day if for more fortunate circumstances.
Watched like the first 10 minutes....they're not even talkin bad about sc2. They repetitively admit that sc2 takes a ton more work and practice to be any good at, freely admitting that the skill level of sc2 is just on a much much higher level than halo. It seems they're more trying to fire up the halo fans because they're Jelly of all the fantastically awesome and earth shatteringly loud fans that accompany sc2 to every MLG this year.
actually just got 16minutes in. They're barely bashing SC2 at all. They actually go on to compliment the fans and such. Any 'bashing' is them just having fun with us.
On December 05 2011 23:52 Sackings wrote: neither halo nor Cod should be considered an esport sadly, and the only reason Cod is is because Sony sponsors it i think (they play it on ps3, not 360 if i remember right)
Opinions like this just annoy me, because it seems like you're saying that because they're not SC then they can't be an e-sport. You might not have this opinion, but I've seen many other comments in this thread about people not thinking that FPS's in general should be esports. This is just annoying because these types of games THRIVED for a very long time, everywhere from COD1 to Counterstrike 1.6, having prizepools larger than most today. They were staples of the CPL for a number of years and might still be alive today if not for the fucked up owner of the CPL not paying winning teams their prize money. When people say this, I don't think that they actually understand all of the little intricacies involved at actually taking your game to the next level.
These games (not sure about halo, and more recent versions of cod) involve just as much of the mind game as starcraft. It requires IMMENSE teamwork and communication.
I just don't really like these constant opinions of these kinds of games not being e-sports as they really could have been to this day if for more fortunate circumstances.
maybe i should have been more specific, FPS are fine as an esport, just not on consoles. CS, quake, unreal tourny are all great games
Halo players looking down on SC2 players is like hockey players looking down on football players. They are different, and you are just upset that there's something else generating hype.
Haha, I know they are just messing around, but they are actually dissing SC2 for being a game you actually have to dedicate yourself to fully to master, pointing that out as something BAD, while they go on about how they can do other stuff as well while being competitive in HALO? Even though it's messing around and an attempt to diss, I don't see how that attempt worked in their favour. The legitimacy of an e-sport game in my eyes, just like with sports, is how many hours you have to put in to compete with the best. You don't see any up & coming soccer or american football player just practice a little here and there, they put in the hours, they work hard, because they have to, the skill cap and competition is that high. So.. if you can sustain being a progamer in HALO while putting in less hours compared to SC2, what does that tell you about the game?
All in all I think that games should work together to keep esports viable. We can't sustain the gaming scene with just one game like SC2, I believe we should cooperate with other games in organizing events, etc. Although we share venues in tournaments such as mlg, that seems to be the most interaction we have with other games. I think that it would be much more beneficial if we considered everyone as part of the "gaming community" instead of just eh "sc2 community" or "halo community".
My first impressions when I opened this thread were much like everyone else, that these guys were just bashing starcraft. Listening to the video later on I found that these guys arent big assholes or anything, and that it was all in good fun. I dont think that the OP shows this well enough, and I think it'll only bring in more angry people who dont bother to get themeslves informed about the whole situation.
On December 05 2011 23:52 Sackings wrote: neither halo nor Cod should be considered an esport sadly, and the only reason Cod is is because Sony sponsors it i think (they play it on ps3, not 360 if i remember right)
Opinions like this just annoy me, because it seems like you're saying that because they're not SC then they can't be an e-sport. You might not have this opinion, but I've seen many other comments in this thread about people not thinking that FPS's in general should be esports. This is just annoying because these types of games THRIVED for a very long time, everywhere from COD1 to Counterstrike 1.6, having prizepools larger than most today. They were staples of the CPL for a number of years and might still be alive today if not for the fucked up owner of the CPL not paying winning teams their prize money. When people say this, I don't think that they actually understand all of the little intricacies involved at actually taking your game to the next level.
These games (not sure about halo, and more recent versions of cod) involve just as much of the mind game as starcraft. It requires IMMENSE teamwork and communication.
I just don't really like these constant opinions of these kinds of games not being e-sports as they really could have been to this day if for more fortunate circumstances.
maybe i should have been more specific, FPS are fine as an esport, just not on consoles. CS, quake, unreal tourny are all great games
Yeah no I recognized that you specifically didn't say that , I should have been a teeny bit more clear on that too
If the worst people can say about the SC2 community is that pros have no style and are big nerds.. then I think we're doing pretty well
Nexy is a nice person and wasn't being entirely serious (I believe he even admitted that he was just creating some dialogue and playing devil's advocate). He cares a lot for the various gaming communities (Halo, especially) and has done a lot for them over the years.
And it's interesting that some of you are grouping together Halo players by the opinions of three just as they grouped all of the pros into a certain image.
How do you guys react to a video like this, what does it mean to you, what would you like to see done?
I'll be honest, whether they're serious or not didn't matter to me. I couldn't listen past around 4 minutes. They're basically just taking the usual cheap shots and it doesn't reflect well on -either- side. It was a terrible idea and if anything, them doing this makes me want them (Whoever they are within the Halo community) to lose their position. It's not tasteful.
While I didn't find the show funny it obviously wasn't something that got me worked up. It's all for luls and the starcraft communty is way harsher towards Halo players than they were towards us on that show anyway.
With that said I have no specific relation with any other game. I don't care about furthering E-sports as a whole as most games are horrible competetive titles. Mobas are a joke and console FPS games are too. There is no reason I should care about these games if I don't think they are worthy of being E-sport games.
On December 05 2011 11:53 Najda wrote: I think it was pretty obvious they were joking. When one of them could easily list the 4 pros that were interviewed during some meeting at IEM it made it pretty obvious he respects/pays attention to SC2. They were even saying that SC2 is a much harder game.
No, they got them wrong. They said something like, IdrA, Stephano, and some others who weren't. It was also at IPL3. I think it was MC, Stephano, Incontrol and Select.
Those guys are so... superficial... Talking about clothing style when talking about a video game... wtf is wrong with those guys ? "Starcraft is so hard and competitive that they basically have to play all day" Yeah, welcome to ESPORTS yo. Now Make fun of pro Football player training all week and wearing all the same clothes and you'll feel as ridiculous as you are right now. Why should we give a shit about that immature content ? No idea...
Actually I'm quite happy Halo community are doing this, that just prove my point that Starcraft community isn't as childish.
These guys aren't bashing SC2. In fact, they're bashing their own community more than the SC2 community. I think some of us here have been spoiled lately since SC2 is on top by FAR. So some of us are taking this video like it's all about us. It's not guys. It's about how the support for Halo has decreased over the past year(has nothing to do with SC2 by the way). They're just trying to get their community fired up.
I personally don't mind it. In fact, I respect these guys for doing what they did. They obviously knew that at least some of the SC2 community would have taken video seriously. They still did it because they felt it was necessary. If Halo was on top by far and we were at the bottom, the same thing should happen. So chill guys.
I just want to point out as well that Nexy has done more for e sports than you probably think he has. I don't follow what he does that much but I know he's done a lot for all types of games. Right now I believe he's doing the League of Legends stuff and I know he's done some SC2 stuff here and there.
EDIT:
"If you took the top 30 Koreans that play Starcraft 2 and put them on political affairs, we'd have world peace in like 6 hours" - DMAQ
This just goes to show the difference in mentality of many SC2 gamers vs. Halo gamers. The majority of the higher tier starcraft community is full of helpful, friendly, mannered individuals. It dissapoints me to see a video from players that gives all Esports a bad name, simply because Starcraft is sweeping the scene.
Starcraft is by FAR the best spectator sport that a video game has produced. Of course fans of other games are going to be jealous; it's perfectly natural.
On December 06 2011 04:11 Soldier92 wrote: This just goes to show the difference in mentality of many SC2 gamers vs. Halo gamers. The majority of the higher tier starcraft community is full of helpful, friendly, mannered individuals. It dissapoints me to see a video from players that gives all Esports a bad name, simply because Starcraft is sweeping the scene.
Judging the Halo community based off some JOKES that a few of the top guys in Halo said is more ignorant than anything they said.
On December 05 2011 11:53 Najda wrote: I think it was pretty obvious they were joking. When one of them could easily list the 4 pros that were interviewed during some meeting at IEM it made it pretty obvious he respects/pays attention to SC2. They were even saying that SC2 is a much harder game.
No, they got them wrong. They said something like, IdrA, Stephano, and some others who weren't. It was also at IPL3. I think it was MC, Stephano, Incontrol and Select.
How do you guys react to a video like this, what does it mean to you, what would you like to see done?
I'll be honest, whether they're serious or not didn't matter to me. I couldn't listen past around 4 minutes. They're basically just taking the usual cheap shots and it doesn't reflect well on -either- side. It was a terrible idea and if anything, them doing this makes me want them (Whoever they are within the Halo community) to lose their position. It's not tasteful.
* Doesn't watch entire video * * Makes over the top demands anyways *
On December 06 2011 04:11 Soldier92 wrote: This just goes to show the difference in mentality of many SC2 gamers vs. Halo gamers. The majority of the higher tier starcraft community is full of helpful, friendly, mannered individuals. It dissapoints me to see a video from players that gives all Esports a bad name, simply because Starcraft is sweeping the scene.
Judging the Halo community based off some JOKES that a few of the top guys in Halo said is more ignorant than anything they said.
I'm not bagging on the halo community, I play Halo myself. But I feel like this video reflects poorly on all Esports if viewed by someone outside the scene. I realise they were joking, but the big names should be constructive, and relatively professional if any non gamers are going to take the scene seriously.
On December 05 2011 11:53 Najda wrote: I think it was pretty obvious they were joking. When one of them could easily list the 4 pros that were interviewed during some meeting at IEM it made it pretty obvious he respects/pays attention to SC2. They were even saying that SC2 is a much harder game.
No, they got them wrong. They said something like, IdrA, Stephano, and some others who weren't. It was also at IPL3. I think it was MC, Stephano, Incontrol and Select.
Instead of watching the first 5 minutes. Please fast forward to minute 15.
These guys are tools but they aren't just trying to bash SC2. They know their game is dying and they need to try and bring their community together. Thats what the video is about. They are jealous of starcraft 2. This is what its about.
Honestly, I find this rather unprofessional, regardless if it was a joking or not. It is similar to the ads that some political campaigns run. Talk garbage about a competing organization to make one's self look better. In my eyes, that really just makes the trash talking organization look worse. It is much easier to catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Turning around and doing the same thing doesn't really help either. It just proves that the other side can say something to bother you enough to get you to retaliate.
The only thing in this video that bothered me was their statement on how to be a pro level player of star craft, you have to put in a huge amount of time. Oddly enough to be a pro level basketball player, politician, teacher, under-water basket weaver, you have to do the same thing. Turns out that is what anybody has to do to be a professional of anything. If you aren't spending a large chunk of time on your profession. Then you aren't a professional. But then again, I suppose if you really like what you do then you don't notice the amount of time you put in. Where as if you don't like what you do then, you probably will notice the amount of time you put in.
After the ridiculously stupid SC2 bashing/Halo's pro style or whatever the fuck that shit was about, the show was actually decent and pretty hilarious. If you turned it off when the first negative word about SC2 hit your ears turn it back on and be patient, you'll see the real reason for this video and it has very little to do with Starcraft - in fact they later praise Starcraft for several things.
Ehh little people are afraid of going out of business from the big dogs ;P
Just cause the one guy who uses linux insists its better than PC or mac doesnt mean thats the case PC being sc, mac being ... LoL? mac pro being dota 2 insisting there is a difference...
But in all seriousness, who cares if they are criticizing a game they know nothing about. Prior to starcraft I seriously followed Halo 2 and Halo 3 scene and its all good and fun but in all seriousness, shooting games will just keep shifting to the next "greatest thing" and if they want any hope of competition, survival or even respect, they first gotta at least TRY to refer to starcraft in a manner way even if they wanna criticize it and secondly, they really gotta bind together behind FPS games in general cause the fact that literally no one plays any of the previous Halos or CODs (save maybe nazi zombies) shows how quick each game is to become obsolete.
Though i guess i really really don't care about, how our players dress or their so called "Style".
That's pretty much the least of my worries when it comes to our community.
Btw as far as the players go, i think the TSL or the Slayers jackets are pretty good looking. Given this is just a simple Sc2 fans, biased opinion. Though I really don't see what they are complaining about.
Edit: Watched a bit more. Honestly seems like they just want to have some kind of moral victory over SC. Though In such a trivial and subjective category i'm perfectly fine with that.
Basic pillar that carries over to a lot of gaming communities and is not going away for a while, sometimes even carries over to real life as well. The video was really not a bash on the Starcraft community and more of a bash on the Halo Fanbase and how they need to be more like the Starcraft fans (Barcraft anyone?).
On a side note, White-Ra so awesome he brings special tactics to Halo.
Lol if you're taking that first video seriously you need to lighten up. They're just joking around and they preface the video with saying that they're talking shit.
LOL I really don't think those guys are really hating. Just having some fun. We give them shit about that game having a lack of skill. They hate on us for it taking too much time. Pretty funny actually. I guarantee you if a SC2 pro was saying that stuff about style and dedication in a funny way people would laugh. These guys do it and people flip.
edit: Did the op actually watch more than 10 minutes? They mock sc2 at first but around 15:30 they give huge props to the community. This video wasn't to piss off sc2 fans but get halo fans going.
Worst thing the OP could have done was saying you could just watch the first 10mins. They seem more negative about the Halo community than Starcraft one, they just tried to spark a little rivalry or something to bring some fire to their community, mostly joking. And now people watch 5mins and think they know what a 50mins video is about.
I hope this community realizes that the Halo community is starting base their entire format off us. They have a lot of respect for us and I think the biggest compliment they can give us is to take cues from the most passionate community. These shows they're doing now started up because SC has so much success with the fans. Take the jokes in stride. Seriously, because the more you bash these guys, the more you contradict your own statements about halo players being dumb by actually being the dumb ones.
Not very intelligent or thoughtful people but I give it that. They had some opinions and didn't sound like they want to hurt, but rather express their feelings about the community and promote something what they think is better in their community. :O I never thought about dressing.. Maybe it relates to polite acting of players, but it's another thing if you want crazy showpeople or not. e: I was expecting reallyl harsh stuff, too mild. =)
"We're not doing this for attention". Yeah right. And they have 8 YEARS OF GAMING under their belts. WHOAH! Thats like, A LOT, kind of. They are SO LEGIT. The pseudo black guy who taks all gansta like is so STYLISH. I'm gonna buy me some 200 € Nikes and a little woolly hat tomorrow and I still won't be half as cool as he is.
Seriosly, this sums it all up: "Starcraft requires dedication, it's for nerds. Halo is for consoles, it's for normal people." They do realize what they're saying. Doesn't this kind of mean that Halo doesn't even need a community. "Normal people" don't want any part in "gaming communities".
No problem here, stop overreacting. They were polite, and for the most part right. Starcraft does take a lot of time to go pro at and doesn't leave much time for other things. Though I don't really get what they're saying about the clothes.... They even gave respect to white-ra. This thread just makes us look all the more whiny to them.
idk if i should be posting this, since the thread turned into a discussion about the video, but since this is about another incident with another videogame community, i think it belongs here
So, what happened was this: As some of you may watched, the dreamhack street fighter finals were broadcasted in between semifinals of SC2. The crowd emptied the stadium for the SF2 finals, which was pretty rough on both the casters and the players, but this isn't necessarily our problem. One pretty bad thing that happened was that the chat was swarmed with people saying shit about the game, talking trash and demanding that SC2 be on air(though it was a scheduled time for SF2). This same treatment from the SC2 crowd happened this weekend when the NASL finals got delayed on the first day due to the LoL finals, though this time it is a bit more understandable since it was the SC2 timeslot. Another problem came when the host (Ryan Hart? Not sure about name) came onstage and said "let's give it up for those button mashing heroes". Not before long, a few fighting game cumminities exploded with rage, deservedly so. The bad point was that since SC2 was pretty much the main event there, people started bashingthe low knowledge of the host and production towards their games, and blaming it on the superproduction of the SC2 event.
There's a post on shoryuken that can be found here, and also a more positive note here. You can read some and take your own conclusions, so i'm gonna just jump to mine.
I think they are correct on many of their complaints, though they shouldn't be associating it with SC2 growth. The host which was unintendly offensive against fightning games can be blamed on his lack of knowledge of the genre, and a very similar story happened at WCG 2005, where tasteless began his casting career(for those that don't know the story, you can check some it here), also, if i was hiring for dreamhack and SC2 was my bigger audience, i would probably would hire someone who knows about it.
One thing they are profoundly correct of complaining about is the bashing of other games on stream chats. SC2 is good for other games, and other games bring more audience to SC2, generating rivalry amongst gaming communities with incidents such as the halo video, the shoryuken article, etc. is bad for eSports in general, and splits the public. Even if SC2 thrives, without a backing eSports scene, we maybe can never have another rts on the limelight(even a possible SC3).
Hope the post isn't too long, but i think this thread deserves more discussion.
On December 06 2011 04:44 Makura wrote: Ehh little people are afraid of going out of business from the big dogs ;P
Just cause the one guy who uses linux insists its better than PC or mac doesnt mean thats the case PC being sc, mac being ... LoL? mac pro being dota 2 insisting there is a difference...
But in all seriousness, who cares if they are criticizing a game they know nothing about. Prior to starcraft I seriously followed Halo 2 and Halo 3 scene and its all good and fun but in all seriousness, shooting games will just keep shifting to the next "greatest thing" and if they want any hope of competition, survival or even respect, they first gotta at least TRY to refer to starcraft in a manner way even if they wanna criticize it and secondly, they really gotta bind together behind FPS games in general cause the fact that literally no one plays any of the previous Halos or CODs (save maybe nazi zombies) shows how quick each game is to become obsolete.
On December 06 2011 04:44 Makura wrote: Ehh little people are afraid of going out of business from the big dogs ;P
Just cause the one guy who uses linux insists its better than PC or mac doesnt mean thats the case PC being sc, mac being ... LoL? mac pro being dota 2 insisting there is a difference...
But in all seriousness, who cares if they are criticizing a game they know nothing about. Prior to starcraft I seriously followed Halo 2 and Halo 3 scene and its all good and fun but in all seriousness, shooting games will just keep shifting to the next "greatest thing" and if they want any hope of competition, survival or even respect, they first gotta at least TRY to refer to starcraft in a manner way even if they wanna criticize it and secondly, they really gotta bind together behind FPS games in general cause the fact that literally no one plays any of the previous Halos or CODs (save maybe nazi zombies) shows how quick each game is to become obsolete.
i bet you wol will become obsolete after hots
HOTS is an expansion pack, not a separate game.
There were 12 years between BW and SC2, and for that entire time, and through this day, BW stood and stands as the most popular e-sport with the most financial support.
So I just watched their response to all this on twitch and its basically "woah bros, we were just kidding, but we would react the same way if you did it to us and we understand" and then later some more "sc2 community overreacted, it was just a joke". .... Uh, ok guys. This whole thing is just stupid.
On December 06 2011 05:34 gabapenteado wrote: idk if i should be posting this, since the thread turned into a discussion about the video, but since this is about another incident with another videogame community, i think it belongs here
So, what happened was this: As some of you may watched, the dreamhack street fighter finals were broadcasted in between semifinals of SC2. The crowd emptied the stadium for the SF2 finals, which was pretty rough on both the casters and the players, but this isn't necessarily our problem.
I know you say this isn't our problem - but i just want to emphasise you can't really hold it against people if they don't want to stay and watch a game they don't enjoy..
One pretty bad thing that happened was that the chat was swarmed with people saying shit about the game, talking trash and demanding that SC2 be on air(though it was a scheduled time for SF2). This same treatment from the SC2 crowd happened this weekend when the NASL finals got delayed on the first day due to the LoL finals, though this time it is a bit more understandable since it was the SC2 timeslot.
This is the internet - stream chats are renowned for being disgustingly BM and a massive troll fest; there is barely any accountability in a stream chat with that many people. Being a really big HoN fan it pains me when you call it LoL the main problem is that due to timezones people want to see SC2, and if something is preventing them from doing that before they have to go to sleep, work or school it can be frustrating - people are selfish?
Another problem came when the host (Ryan Hart? Not sure about name) came onstage and said "let's give it up for those button mashing heroes". Not before long, a few fighting game cumminities exploded with rage, deservedly so. The bad point was that since SC2 was pretty much the main event there, people started bashingthe low knowledge of the host and production towards their games, and blaming it on the superproduction of the SC2 event.
It has been well documented that the DHW host was poorly chosen - he knew very little about anything and was probably one of the only failures on the part of DHW. This has very little if anything to do with the SC2 audience
One thing they are profoundly correct of complaining about is the bashing of other games on stream chats. SC2 is good for other games, and other games bring more audience to SC2, generating rivalry amongst gaming communities with incidents such as the halo video, the shoryuken article, etc. is bad for eSports in general, and splits the public. Even if SC2 thrives, without a backing eSports scene, we maybe can never have another rts on the limelight(even a possible SC3).
Every stream chat has this problem and as long as streams are based on the internet, it will never go away. People are a lot braver online, they feel they can say whatever they want; unless we live in a Utopia where everyone loves each other then i doubt there will be much improvement. And again - this isn't unique to SC2, we just happen to be one of the biggest communities and therefore probably the loudest.
On December 06 2011 05:34 gabapenteado wrote: idk if i should be posting this, since the thread turned into a discussion about the video, but since this is about another incident with another videogame community, i think it belongs here
So, what happened was this: As some of you may watched, the dreamhack street fighter finals were broadcasted in between semifinals of SC2. The crowd emptied the stadium for the SF2 finals, which was pretty rough on both the casters and the players, but this isn't necessarily our problem. One pretty bad thing that happened was that the chat was swarmed with people saying shit about the game, talking trash and demanding that SC2 be on air(though it was a scheduled time for SF2). This same treatment from the SC2 crowd happened this weekend when the NASL finals got delayed on the first day due to the LoL finals, though this time it is a bit more understandable since it was the SC2 timeslot. Another problem came when the host (Ryan Hart? Not sure about name) came onstage and said "let's give it up for those button mashing heroes". Not before long, a few fighting game cumminities exploded with rage, deservedly so. The bad point was that since SC2 was pretty much the main event there, people started bashingthe low knowledge of the host and production towards their games, and blaming it on the superproduction of the SC2 event.
There's a post on shoryuken that can be found here, and also a more positive note here. You can read some and take your own conclusions, so i'm gonna just jump to mine.
I think they are correct on many of their complaints, though they shouldn't be associating it with SC2 growth. The host which was unintendly offensive against fightning games can be blamed on his lack of knowledge of the genre, and a very similar story happened at WCG 2005, where tasteless began his casting career(for those that don't know the story, you can check some it here), also, if i was hiring for dreamhack and SC2 was my bigger audience, i would probably would hire someone who knows about it.
One thing they are profoundly correct of complaining about is the bashing of other games on stream chats. SC2 is good for other games, and other games bring more audience to SC2, generating rivalry amongst gaming communities with incidents such as the halo video, the shoryuken article, etc. is bad for eSports in general, and splits the public. Even if SC2 thrives, without a backing eSports scene, we maybe can never have another rts on the limelight(even a possible SC3).
Hope the post isn't too long, but i think this thread deserves more discussion.
♥ you all
I think you mean "SF4" and "HoN" rather than "SF2" and "LoL"
i watched the original video posted and thought they were just being stupid and ignorant, but after watching the context (the whole stream session) its very clear multiple times they address that they need to look at the sc2 community to see what they are doing right to apply it to the halo community to help it grow, as for the whole style thing i don't think it's hard to see they are messing around, maybe they do feel that way but either way it is completely irrelevant and they know that.
One pretty bad thing that happened was that the chat was swarmed with people saying shit about the game, talking trash and demanding that SC2 be on air(though it was a scheduled time for SF2). This same treatment from the SC2 crowd happened this weekend when the NASL finals got delayed on the first day due to the LoL finals, though this time it is a bit more understandable since it was the SC2 timeslot.
This is the internet - stream chats are renowned for being disgustingly BM and a massive troll fest; there is barely any accountability in a stream chat with that many people. Being a really big HoN fan it pains me when you call it LoL the main problem is that due to timezones people want to see SC2, and if something is preventing them from doing that before they have to go to sleep, work or school it can be frustrating - people are selfish?
First of all, i'm really sorry, as pointed out, HoN was playing during the NASL finals and not LoL, and it's out of pure ignorance that i said it was LoL. I understand they are different games and i should have done my research (as you can see from the post, a lot of it was from memory, so i kind of messed up). Also, yeah it was SF4. SSF4:AE, actually. Again, sorry.
About the stream,
I just don't think it is fair when people complain about a game that is streaming on its own timeslot. If SF4 is scheduled to play from say, 7:00pm to 8:00pm, i can't really complain that SC2 is not on air. Also, the post also serves as a warning to people saying that the SC2 community can also be pretty annoying to other games viewers
I didn't see anything really offensive in the video (they seem to actually compliment SC2 more than bash it), but speaking to our interaction with other gaming communities, I've always found this to be a tricky issue. Despite the fact that we're all playing games on computer screens and television sets, the games themselves are vastly different as are the communities involved. It's one thing to hold tournaments together in gaming festival style (ie: MLG/Dreamhack), but it's another issue entirely to expect that these different communities are realistically going to get along. It's pretty much like taking MLB fans, NBA fans, Tennis fans, Soccer fans, and Hockey fans and throwing them into a room together. It's just a situation that's bound to spark conflicts between the involved parties on some level or another.
This is one of the key problems with the recent attempt to try to unite competitive gamers under the "eSports" banner. Starcraft doesn't bring more people to Halo. Halo doesn't bring more people to Starcraft. The same goes for Street Fighter, DoTA, or any other game out there. They are different games with different audiences, which is why at MLG, they are held on different stages. I feel Dreamhack and NASL made a bit of a mistake in trying to mash different genres together on the same stage despite the fact that there were good intentions behind it.
Hopefully we'll all be able to open up and respect each other one day, but I'm not going to be holding my breath waiting for that day to come.
We imbrace the inner nerd more fully. Of course I'm partial to SC2 the best game ever, but I respect the halo community and I hope they find a spot and continue to grow/be nourished somehow.
Sorry, but Slasher ain't the definition of starcraft. Look at savior. That guy knew how to roll(ex)... Flash has style. Bisu has style. Boxer has swag. Nada has style.
Video is pretty dumb. Aside from their terrible grammar and trying to sound "gangsta" behind a computer screen which in my mind takes away any credibility they may have ever had, they're trying to "get their community riled up" by shit talking ours, when they don't know anything about SC2 or the SC2 community.
Yes I get it, they're mad/sad/angry/whatever that their only real esport outlet MLG is putting them on the bottom because of SC2, but trying to vent that frustration by bashing the community that is taking their spot is not gonna help the problem, if anything it will make it worse by showing how immature console gamers really are. If they really want to try and save their game they need to go to the community in a positive way, show sponsors that the community is big enough to be worth investing money into, thus far all they're showing is that their community is immature hateful and bitter.
On December 06 2011 06:40 hunts wrote: Video is pretty dumb. Aside from their terrible grammar and trying to sound "gangsta" behind a computer screen which in my mind takes away any credibility they may have ever had, they're trying to "get their community riled up" by shit talking ours, when they don't know anything about SC2 or the SC2 community.
Yes I get it, they're mad/sad/angry/whatever that their only real esport outlet MLG is putting them on the bottom because of SC2, but trying to vent that frustration by bashing the community that is taking their spot is not gonna help the problem, if anything it will make it worse by showing how immature console gamers really are. If they really want to try and save their game they need to go to the community in a positive way, show sponsors that the community is big enough to be worth investing money into, thus far all they're showing is that their community is immature hateful and bitter.
They do know about SC2 and the community. They do content production for MLG, and are in touch with the tourney organizers who deal directly with the players and community, they know things.
Also it's a joke, which you seem to be missing. The shit-talking isn't real shit talking, they're just poking fun, and anyone who gets legitimately mad at it needs thicker skin.
while most of the stuff they said was pretty stupid, I do think they make a pretty solid point about the overall image/marketability of the SC2 community. As esports grows, we will need more players to step up and be the faces of the league, not just results wise, but personality wise. Be the Tiger Woods, the LeBron, the Derek Jeter, the Tom Brady of esports. Someone like incontrol is definitely marketable, but no offense to them, do you see stephano or naniwa being "superstars"? Sure we have some idras or huks or TLOs, but overall I would say the community isnt as marketable.
Maybe there are some players out there we don't know about that could have a great personality, we just haven't had the chance to see it. Hopefully some tournaments can do some more of those panels or other ways to try and develop some personalities amongst the players
On December 06 2011 06:40 hunts wrote: Video is pretty dumb. Aside from their terrible grammar and trying to sound "gangsta" behind a computer screen which in my mind takes away any credibility they may have ever had, they're trying to "get their community riled up" by shit talking ours, when they don't know anything about SC2 or the SC2 community.
Yes I get it, they're mad/sad/angry/whatever that their only real esport outlet MLG is putting them on the bottom because of SC2, but trying to vent that frustration by bashing the community that is taking their spot is not gonna help the problem, if anything it will make it worse by showing how immature console gamers really are. If they really want to try and save their game they need to go to the community in a positive way, show sponsors that the community is big enough to be worth investing money into, thus far all they're showing is that their community is immature hateful and bitter.
I would advise watching more than 5-10 minutes of the video.
On December 06 2011 06:40 hunts wrote: Video is pretty dumb. Aside from their terrible grammar and trying to sound "gangsta" behind a computer screen which in my mind takes away any credibility they may have ever had, they're trying to "get their community riled up" by shit talking ours, when they don't know anything about SC2 or the SC2 community.
Yes I get it, they're mad/sad/angry/whatever that their only real esport outlet MLG is putting them on the bottom because of SC2, but trying to vent that frustration by bashing the community that is taking their spot is not gonna help the problem, if anything it will make it worse by showing how immature console gamers really are. If they really want to try and save their game they need to go to the community in a positive way, show sponsors that the community is big enough to be worth investing money into, thus far all they're showing is that their community is immature hateful and bitter.
I would advise watching more than 5-10 minutes of the video.
pretty hard for most people who are fan of starcraft to get through the first 10 minutes of that 1 hour video, and i think it largely contributes to all the misunderstanding. Though they do need to reconstruct their point a little bit
It's kind of hard to figure out what the heck they are talking about. I don't think they know themselves really. First they talk about how "stylish" their "immature" community is, then they want them to be more like the SC2 community. I don't think they were serious with any of their trash-talk though and I'm sure they just want the Halo community to keep hanging in there but there should be much better representatives for the Halo scene than these guys.
Initially I thought this was going to all be about starcraft booing Street Fighter or whatever at DHW2011, but when I heard him elaborate on the dorky comment all I could think was how this is what those 12 year olds playing Halo on 360 will grow up to be. And then I was hit with the sudden realization that all those 12 year olds will be working-age soon. Shit.
I believe the best game should win. I think those guys were just sad their spray and pray hobby is out of the spotlight. Sc2 just broadcasts so much better then halo/fps. Watching a pro play from first person makes my head hurt.(Why I dont watch pro halo). I also think there is more variance in sc2 with different builds / strategies.
I realize it's not serious, but I'm surprised how often people who seem to have no interest in and no knowledge of style/fashion can be so quick to judge other people's looks. If you put very little effort/money into your clothing, it just seems embarrassing to criticize people who put even less effort/money into it.
I think SC2 could be more appealing with higher fashion standards, but SC2 or even video games in general are hardly the only communities/scenes/industries with this problem. So I don't see it as a very useful criticism of SC2 specifically.
As for relationship to other games, I don't really think as highly of most other competitive video games. I would never place them on the same level of importance as SC2, but I still enjoy watching competitive games of any type. I don't think SC2 community should be specifically linked to some other game in like a partnership, but I'd encourage individuals to still support other competitive games.
Ok, so there are a few problems I have with this whole situation... problems with the Halo guys AND with our own community.
Yeah sure, they said some stupid shit about StarCraft and the players/community of StarCraft. Like arguing about whether or not StarCraft players or Halo players have more hobbies and who has more style or whatever is just stupid... lol. Yeah I understand the style thing was a joke, that's fine. People on our own show, State of the Game, have made jokes like that about Halo before and that's fine. Their making a video for the Halo community, and they're going to say things to entertain the Halo community and I think that is good. Other things they said did come off as disrespectful and somewhat of a cheap shot at a huge group of people that they don't even know, which is what I think people got so pissed off about.
Also, they keep comparing the StarCraft community to people like Slasher and Destiny, and saying that we as a whole think the same way they do. THAT ISN'T EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE lol. Slasher and Destiny are kind of outliers in the community and you can't generalize literally hundreds of thousands of people based on them. Saying that we think Halo are like elementary school kids and StarCraft is like college kids is a huge generalization, and I think that it speaks only for the vocal minority. I personally have a lot of respect for these guys. Yeah sure, I don't find their game very interesting or hard or competitive or whatever, but that is what they love and want to do and they are trying hard to promote that and I think that is a lot more then what most StarCraft 2 fans are doing for SC2 and eSports. Respecting the people and respecting the game they play are very different things and it is sad that many people have a bad impression of people working towards the same goal as us, just because they play a different game. This kinda leads into my next point...
I understand that us SC2 players and fans are really passionate about the game and about our community and all that, but bashing them so damn hard over a stupid video is ridiculous. Like some response to it is perfectly fine and is completely warranted, because like I said they said some stupid shit, but being at their throats over some ignorant jokes they made is pretty immature.
Starcraft 2 is pretty much the only game I care about. Am I bad because of this? Firstly I dont really have time to follow every pro scene. Secondly, I dont even find other games very interesting. In my deeply subjective opinion, starcraft is the best game an I have chosen to follow it. Damn it, Halo might just have the best e sports scene in the universe, but I will never know that, for the game is not my cup of tea . But I dont force starcraft to anybody, therefore I expect the same from other gaming communities. Clearly, SC bashing wont help them in any shape or form.
They might as well talk about how better their fingernails are trimmed, because I don't care if they wasted $150 on shoes (poor souls who need approval based on what their feet wear). Also, some of us are actually busy and devote our leisure to starcraft. I think I stopped caring about being "cooler" when I left high school.
If they don't care about what the starcraft community thinks about them, then surely, we can respond (naturally) and bash their community with no remorse. You treat others the way you want to be treated. If they half-heartedly bashed the starcraft community, then I would feel free to half-heartedly bash their community. Why did they feel the need to make a video-long apology if they think that the situation is not that big and that we're the ones overreacting?
I don't really think this even needs a thread. they made some cheap shots against our players to help themselves feel better and even state that they are just kinda hazing our pros because they are not number 1 anymore at IPL. I think we need to ignore petty things like this.
Starcraft is global, from massive popularity in korea setting the benchmark, to North America, Europe, China, South east asia and south america. It's just much more accesible than a console shooter since consoles and halo is not availablo to anyone everywhere. There's a reason why PC games grow much more and has a much bigger potential
how these useless shit storm threads go: random people watch the first 30 seconds of the video, and post their first gut reaction thread gets bumped people read the knee jerk reactions of other people and explain that it wasn't serious knee jerk reaction people yell at others for sympathizing with halo players everyone quotes the page's Big Idiot thread gets bumped
On December 06 2011 08:04 julianto wrote: They might as well talk about how better their fingernails are trimmed, because I don't care if they wasted $150 on shoes (poor souls who need approval based on what their feet wear). Also, some of us are actually busy and devote our leisure to starcraft. I think I stopped caring about being "cooler" when I left high school.
If they don't care about what the starcraft community thinks about them, then surely, we can respond (naturally) and bash their community with no remorse. You treat others the way you want to be treated. If they half-heartedly bashed the starcraft community, then I would feel free to half-heartedly bash their community. Why did they feel the need to make a video-long apology if they think that the situation is not that big and that we're the ones overreacting?
Let's be honest, there's no such thing as half-heartedly bashing a community in response to another community half-heartedly bashing us. If you bash them because of this, it's because it is a big deal to you. So no, you would be bashing them in a serious manner.
Those guys were just poking fun at us. We should poke them back. But not with your mindset. In fact, most of the mindsets here are absolutely ridiculous. Some of this community are bashing their game when they didn't even say a word about SC2 itself. Then there's the "unintelligent" remarks which is a contradiction already considering you're an idiot if you take them seriously. That's why I'm so glad that the figure heads of this community are people like Day 9 who would probably just joke back at them. Instead of some of the people who personally attack them with the intention of hurting them.
From my point of view, these guys are goofballs and people need to just laugh. Humor > Everything else.
If Starcraft is full of dorks (which I can't entirely deny) it is because RTS is a thinking man's (or woman's) genre. These bros are the reason I mute voicechat whenever I'm playing a console game with anyone other than my RL friends.
I've played shooters for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more time in my life (as in time spent playing) than RTS games, but I certainly don't want to watch other people play shooters. They simply are not spectator friendly, which is a big factor in the success of a competitive game.
I do sympathize with them -- their game is dying. I'm sure horse and buggy makers got upset about the attention the model T was getting. Henry Ford was soooooo dorky.
Edit:
On December 06 2011 08:27 Alejandrisha wrote: how these useless shit storm threads go: random people watch the first 30 seconds of the video, and post their first gut reaction thread gets bumped people read the knee jerk reactions of other people and explain that it wasn't serious knee jerk reaction people yell at others for sympathizing with halo players everyone quotes the page's Big Idiot thread gets bumped
I think one of the big points they were poking at us for was the amount of time that we spend playing our game in order to be competitive, and honestly I have to agree with them - that DOES make us bigger computer nerds.
Halo used to be my primary game. I went to tournaments, played Halo on the weekends with my buddies at LAN parties, and would spend maybe a couple of hours every day playing on xbox live. And to be honest, I was capable of taking games off of pro players. I've been there, done that. I never could have won tournaments - teamwork is a huge factor in Halo, and the biggest challenge in their community is just finding the right people to play with. But the game itself doesn't require as much practice as ours. I used to watch Halo a lot, sometimes still do, and it is usually a big deal when the casters mention that so-and-so practiced 8 hours a day before a tournament. Basically, you can be a professional Halo player without putting in full-time practice.
Now think about Starcraft. If it were this way, the level of skill would probably be a lot lower, and the game might not be as interesting to watch. The reason SC has blown up around the globe is because it became such a big sporting event in Korea - and that's because the players there put in so much time and work into the game that it became a thing of wonder to spectate a pro match. Sc2 has just taken that and magnified it around the globe, but still, it's the Korean mindset that has made Sc2 such a competitive sport. Sc2 players put in a lot of time into practice. And as a result, our community has followed suit in many ways. We do put in more time/effort/passion into our game (you need look no further than TL itself to notice that, lol) and so I do think it's fair to say that we are the bigger nerds here.
Halo is for casual players. Sc2 is for the more dedicated. What's amazing to me is that Sc2 is doing better in viewers - and I guess it's because games played casually aren't as fun to watch as games played with heart. Which makes us all a bunch of sick nerd ballers :D
If Starcraft is full of dorks (which I can't entirely deny) it is because RTS is a thinking man's (or woman's) genre. These bros are the reason I mute voicechat whenever I'm playing a console game with anyone other than my RL friends.
I've played shooters for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more time in my life (as in time spent playing) than RTS games, but I certainly don't want to watch other people play shooters. They simply are not spectator friendly, which is a big factor in the success of a competitive game.
I do sympathize with them -- their game is dying. I'm sure horse and buggy makers got upset about the attention the model T was getting. Henry Ford was soooooo dorky.
On December 06 2011 08:27 Alejandrisha wrote: how these useless shit storm threads go: random people watch the first 30 seconds of the video, and post their first gut reaction thread gets bumped people read the knee jerk reactions of other people and explain that it wasn't serious knee jerk reaction people yell at others for sympathizing with halo players everyone quotes the page's Big Idiot thread gets bumped
Considering that the IQ of those three individuals combined seems to barely scratch the 100 mark, anything they say can hardly be relevant as to how we see ourselves in comparison to other scenes, espacially if they are build around a game as laughable as Halo. I mean, FPS on a gamepad. Really?
On December 06 2011 08:38 CakeSauc3 wrote: I think one of the big points they were poking at us for was the amount of time that we spend playing our game in order to be competitive, and honestly I have to agree with them - that DOES make us bigger computer nerds.
Halo used to be my primary game. I went to tournaments, played Halo on the weekends with my buddies at LAN parties, and would spend maybe a couple of hours every day playing on xbox live. And to be honest, I was capable of taking games off of pro players. I've been there, done that. I never could have won tournaments - teamwork is a huge factor in Halo, and the biggest challenge in their community is just finding the right people to play with. But the game itself doesn't require as much practice as ours. I used to watch Halo a lot, sometimes still do, and it is usually a big deal when the casters mention that so-and-so practiced 8 hours a day before a tournament. Basically, you can be a professional Halo player without putting in full-time practice.
Now think about Starcraft. If it were this way, the level of skill would probably be a lot lower, and the game might not be as interesting to watch. The reason SC has blown up around the globe is because it became such a big sporting event in Korea - and that's because the players there put in so much time and work into the game that it became a thing of wonder to spectate a pro match. Sc2 has just taken that and magnified it around the globe, but still, it's the Korean mindset that has made Sc2 such a competitive sport. Sc2 players put in a lot of time into practice. And as a result, our community has followed suit in many ways. We do put in more time/effort/passion into our game (you need look no further than TL itself to notice that, lol) and so I do think it's fair to say that we are the bigger nerds here.
Halo is for casual players. Sc2 is for the more dedicated. What's amazing to me is that Sc2 is doing better in viewers - and I guess it's because games played casually aren't as fun to watch as games played with heart. Which makes us all a bunch of sick nerd ballers :D
Even though overall Halo takes much less practice than SC2, I think the top Halo teams can still benefit from more practice. If they were the underdog like the foriengers are with korea, we would see stricter practice schedule tbh.
People are just taking them too literally. Starcraft right now has the best gaming community in the world. They realize that and are sad about it. Therefore they say stupid shit to get our attention and now they have it.
On December 06 2011 09:44 zJayy962 wrote: People are just taking them too literally. Starcraft right now has the best gaming community in the world. They realize that and are sad about it. Therefore they say stupid shit to get our attention and now they have it.
I agree. This video actually seems like a cry for help. They literally called out their ENTIRE community after dissing sc2. You know what happens when you dis sc2? You get a 1000 page thread on TL and EVERYONE watches the video (well, some people will only listen to 15 seconds of it). They EMBARRASSED their fans if what they said was serious about their community. I think we should accept them and just coexist with them and actually act like adults instead of a bunch of mudslinging neanderthals
I can't emphasise this enough, watch more than the first 5 minutes of the video, they PRAISE the Starcraft community and this is the rallying cry from them to try and mold the Halo community to be more like this one. Look at the whole picture before running in and sounding like an idiot
On December 06 2011 09:49 paradoxOO9 wrote: I can't emphasise this enough, watch more than the first 5 minutes of the video, they PRAISE the Starcraft community and this is the rallying cry from them to try and mold the Halo community to be more like this one. Look at the whole picture before running in and sounding like an idiot
This reminds me of Milkis' post on reddit about BW's history.... ;/
Sounds like a bunch of angry Halo players venting about something they don't fully understand. Nothing new.
Also, they rip on their own community a whole lot, to try and balance the ripping on the Starcraft community. Honestly though, from a "too cool for Starcraft" perspective, you'll point at players who live in a team house and train their asses off and then basically say "Herp derp, no life. I can relate better to a Halo progamer."
It's not the Starcraft community's fault that our franchise is older and has better pro-gaming infrastructure and more serious, long-term appeal, due to the game's almost infinite skill cap. It's not our community's fault that RTS happens to have a crown jewel, whereas FPS is the most saturated genre around.
Like sitting at your computer is any different from melting into your couch... Gimme a fucking break. Douchebags.
EDIT: I sound like I'm mad at anybody who agrees with these dudes, or really likes Halo. I'm just trying to point out that they're just like we are. We all love video games, and have probably played trillions of games between all of us. They just need to not hurt e-sports. Precious e-sports...
I don't care if they were poking fun at us, and I don't care if they were only trying to motivate the halo community. Halo sucks, replace it with Quake.
Of course the other games are going to be jealous, we are dominating them. Just let them bitch and moan, when they die off we will never have to listen to them ever again.
On December 06 2011 09:59 dUTtrOACh wrote: Sounds like a bunch of angry Halo players venting about something they don't fully understand. Nothing new.
Also, they rip on their own community a whole lot, to try and balance the ripping on the Starcraft community. Honestly though, from a "too cool for Starcraft" perspective, you'll point at players who live in a team house and train their asses off and then basically say "Herp derp, no life. I can relate better to a Halo progamer."
It's not the Starcraft community's fault that our franchise is older and has better pro-gaming infrastructure and more serious, long-term appeal, due to the game's almost infinite skill cap. It's not our community's fault that RTS happens to have a crown jewel, whereas FPS is the most saturated genre around.
Like sitting at your computer is any different from melting into your couch... Gimme a fucking break. Douchebags.
EDIT: I sound like I'm mad at anybody who agrees with these dudes, or really likes Halo. I'm just trying to point out that they're just like we are. We all love video games, and have probably played trillions of games between all of us. They just need to not hurt e-sports. Precious e-sports...
They were just joking around about style, that doesn't hurt esports nearly as much as messages like "Halo sucks" or "Console FPS shouldn't be considered esports"
Who cares? Do them making fun of Starcraft affects your enjoyment of the game?
Of all non issues that get brought up all the time this is probably one of the worst. And don´t even act as if some of the Starcraft community hasn´t done this same of crap to other games.
Those guys said their opinion, some agree some don´t agree. Don´t think they represent all Halo players and move on with your life.
Acting as reasonable humans is(not) hurting e sports
Oh wow, really? Just watched the video wow talk about sensationalizing LMAO. Those guys were obviously joking around poking fun at the SC2 community oh wow guys. Watch beyond the first few minutes and you may stop looking like fools.
Hahaha this is hilarious, so many people bashing without knowing. They even praise the SC2 community and wanted the Halo community to be more like the SC2 community.
On December 06 2011 10:17 windsupernova wrote: Oh wow, really? Just watched the video wow talk about sensationalizing LMAO. Those guys were obviously joking around poking fun at the SC2 community oh wow guys. Watch beyond the first few minutes and you may stop looking like fools.
Hahaha this is hilarious, so many people bashing without knowing. They even praise the SC2 community and wanted the Halo community to be more like the SC2 community.
Jeeez, learn to have some fun. Wow
Thank you. The people that are getting all butt hurt over this are just ridiculous. They are fucking around everyone, relax.
On December 06 2011 10:34 Peterblue wrote: It's shit like this that makes me hate the SC2 community. The game's fun, but holy fuckare you people fucking nuts.
Meh, as much as I hate to defend lolworthy stuff. Its kinda the nature of the internet, angry people looking for stuff to get angry about. Not everybody is like that(I'd even say its a minority but meh)
Just laugh about them looking like complete fools and move on
I just hope SC2 doesn't lose momentum to LoL or something because I don't think other communities are going to be very willing to cooperate with us rofl
Also to anyone who is curious about the whole show(I am listening almost done with it) its pretty interesting(this chapter I mean, I never watched this) and has a pretty good message for the Halo community that can even apply to some of the SC2 community.
Hahaha, so weird that a 50 minute show with an overall positive message and more praise than bash for the SC2 community is taken this way.
On December 06 2011 10:34 Peterblue wrote: It's shit like this that makes me hate the SC2 community. The game's fun, but holy fuckare you people fucking nuts.
its the visible minority, but unfortunately because its more visible than normal sc2 gamers it pisses me off too ._.
On December 06 2011 10:06 TheLOLas wrote: Of course the other games are going to be jealous, we are dominating them. Just let them bitch and moan, when they die off we will never have to listen to them ever again.
The video is taken out of context. They are joking. I.E. like someone reading huks twitter and thinking he's biologically related to MC.
Man these guys make my ears bleed. I have no problems with their message and agree with them on some point's, but these really need to learn to speak well. How are people supposed to respect your community when the guys that represent it don't know how to use words with more then 2 syllables, say ummmm every 15 seconds, and insert at least 1 shit/fuck into every sentence. God job looking like hoodrats with a grade 10 education guys. Props.
People need to chill out. It was all just joking around. Its like people thinking State of the Game actually hates Europe or something. Its not entirely true, just mostly true. White-Ra is in Europe and no one could hate him.
I'm pretty sure their just in a crisis mode right now to fired up their community, because Sc2 is killing pretty much any other Esports at this moment. I don't believe that shitting and bringing down a different game will bring fame to Halo, au contraire. Plus, their excuses in the second video are just dumb, telling everything was a joke, why make a video in the first place, and after making excuses for 15 min ?
I was always keeping a eye on Halo on MLG's because it was different and entertain to watch. I liked especially Dmaq casting. But now, bragging how good they look because the dude have shoes with Nike on it, it's just sad. I thought some guys who works at MLG will be less biased and try to spread Esports, not only their not famous anymore Halo. Can you see DjWheat or Day[9] bashing on Halo like this ? No, it was poor professionalism from these three.
On December 06 2011 10:06 TheLOLas wrote: Of course the other games are going to be jealous, we are dominating them. Just let them bitch and moan, when they die off we will never have to listen to them ever again.
The video is taken out of context. They are joking. I.E. like someone reading huks twitter and thinking he's biologically related to MC.
Who cares if the video is taken out of context, Halo is bad and will die soon. If they want to poke fun at Starcraft, then let them. They won't be around much longer.
On December 06 2011 10:06 TheLOLas wrote: Of course the other games are going to be jealous, we are dominating them. Just let them bitch and moan, when they die off we will never have to listen to them ever again.
The video is taken out of context. They are joking. I.E. like someone reading huks twitter and thinking he's biologically related to MC.
Who cares if the video is taken out of context, Halo is bad and will die soon. If they want to poke fun at Starcraft, then let them. They won't be around much longer.
Eh....... Manner please. I don't have any particular love for Halo but community is not supposed to mean elitist fucks that hate all other games. That's not the intent of the video posted here and you should not respond in kind.
In fact, please edit that out >_< all you're doing is being inflammatory.
Edit- actually I think that's exactly the intent of the thread being made here. This seriously is a case of someone taking a joke literally and a wave of offended posters that didn't watch the video for context but posted in retribution anyway.
On December 06 2011 10:06 TheLOLas wrote: Of course the other games are going to be jealous, we are dominating them. Just let them bitch and moan, when they die off we will never have to listen to them ever again.
The video is taken out of context. They are joking. I.E. like someone reading huks twitter and thinking he's biologically related to MC.
Who cares if the video is taken out of context, Halo is bad and will die soon. If they want to poke fun at Starcraft, then let them. They won't be around much longer.
Lol, comments like this are genuinely funny.
E: "Don't let common sense and facts interfere with my raging"
Yeah I swore these guys said they were joking after, even if they aren't let them have their opinions of the sc2 community why do you care? Just like we have probably some misconceptions about their community they have some about ours. What does it really matter we keep to ourselves and same to them.
Judging by the responses to the OP, there are individuals in our community just like theirs, lots of Halo hate in here. I for one don't give a shit about Halo or any console game, but please if you guys really think so much better of our community, don't stoop to a lower level. Anyway, they were just poking fun at the pros style and fashion sense (BIG WHOOP), and the SC2 community in general, it's fairly accurate perception of the majority and anyway who cares it's just a shallow characteristic to look at anyway. That's like gradeschool highschool stuff, and it was a good laugh. I really don't think that deep down they believe that because they dress better that they think they're really any better, again this is an assumption based on how we grow up into adulthood, gradually people care less and less about such material things.
Seriously kids in here blowing this way outta proportion, their community is tiny anyway, like what they say makes any impact on us. They are clearly jealous of what our community has produced, they're try trying to rile up theirs. RELAX my fellow nerds.
On December 06 2011 14:02 Vei wrote: also who the fuck is saying "they're not nerdy?" anyone into gaming enough to realize there is even competitive levels of it is a nerd, get the fuck over it... "we're not hating on you..." as they just (seemingly drunkenly) trashtalk vague sc players saying they dress better?
also i like how you can tell 5 minutes into this rant they realize, without anyone arguing against them, that they can't shittalk sc2. this seems to be more just a misguided vent of "i'm sad my game is dying and someone else's game that seems to intimidating for me to get into is getting SO huge, i can only dream that i ever play a game that will be as popular as sc"
Too many people making a big deal over nothing. Watch the whole video
So, first of all there is a lot to this. There is the video posted in the OP's post, then there is the original video that talked about the issues that Halo's community and the game itself is facing(I believe they called the original video "The Great Debate"). Now if you guys actually want to see what they are talking about, then at least watch part of "The Great Debate" where they are actually putting out their view on Halo's problems and giving out possible solutions.
In both videos(minus the first 5 minutes of the video posted in the OP), these guys are talking about how no one in the Halo community is backing up the competitive scene and how the pro players of Halo are refusing to come together to try to save their game. That is what these videos are about. They are about trying to get their community to back Halo and their Pro players to work together to make it past this next year to when Halo 4 is supposed to come out.
I feel that the OP did a terrible job with this thread, not because they said you only had to watch the first 10 minutes of the second not as important video, but because they put their voice completely against the video in the very first sentence.
On December 05 2011 10:52 firehand101 wrote: This is the video that has inspired this thread. If you can't view it, it is basically 3 notable identities in the halo community discussing their thoughts on starcraft in general, and most are just plain offensive and cheap shots at our game (most are in the first 10 minutes so that is all you have to watch to get the general idea).
As you all know, if you do that on the internet there WILL be people who grab onto that as the truth and run with it. Now the OP didn't mention that in the other video, "The Great Debate", two of the people in the OP's posted video are praising SC2 pretty much the whole time. Not only that, but in "The Great Debate" they talk about things that they can take from other gaming communities to try to save Halo's community. In the OP's video(I won't deny that it starts off sounding like it is against SC2) they are just joking around about stereotypes of SC2 players. Granted this doesn't help their message, but if you watched the video it would be obvious that they were joking around about it in the beginning since for the rest of the video they keep going back to SC2's amazing community as an example.
I can see how people could take the first 5 minutes of the OP's posted video the wrong way, and I am fine with that. What embarrasses me is that they felt so much pressure from our community running away with the idea of them flaming us that they took down their video with the comments in it and made an apology video. Are we that paranoid about people saying things about our community that we can't even take a few jokes about us(some of them were even things we say about ourselves, like calling ourselves nerds)?
If group of people should be making an apology, it should be the SC2 community that jumped on their backs without even trying to listen to more than 5 minutes of over 2 hours of video they have made about the subject(note that in the other 115 minutes there is only good comments about SC2 and the community aside from a comical jest every once and a while...).
(Yes I do know that the apology they made was really not an apology at all, but it is just the fact that they felt the need to make it that upsets me.)
I've been to a couple MLG events and I'm always non-plussed at the amount of dbaggery inherent in most of the FPS communities. I realize there are exceptions to the rule but I've never been prouder to be a part of the SC community than when I'm at these events.
You just can't imagine the asshats playing these games. Faux thugs and Abercrombie dbags abound. I love esports but there are elements I don't want to touch with a ten foot pole.
At MLG Providence I could point out every FPS console person their, they all wore the same stuff it was hilarious. Some kind of sports hat, maybe a sports jeresy/shirt, ghetto shoes, baggy jeans, and chains or some kind of jewelry.
That being said, who cares? SC2 and computer gaming is slowly taking over the eSport's community, we already took MLG away from Halo. After the Halo finals finished and they switched to SC2 their STILL wasn't enough seats for the SC2 community to all sit down. We had more standing people watching SC2 then Halo had sitting + playing.
these guys were a lot more knowledgeable than i expected. they seem like nice dudes but i'm really surprised people still hate on 'nerds' these days. oh well, whatever. i liked that one of them said he'd say things he didn't really believe about sc order in to keep halo alive. in his situation, i'd probably do the same. actually i guess i already have, about brood war to sc2 LOL!
You guys forget that MLG, a league based around Halo, is by far the most stable gaming league for a number of years. Sure, the merging with the SC2 scene has grown it extremely quickly, but it built itself on the halo community and was dishing out 50k prizes in America well before SC2 came around. I heard of MLG long before I heard of the GSL, OSL, PSL (or whatever that other BW league is called).
I was a part of the Halo scene before I got into Starcraft 2, following MLG Halo since late Halo 2. These three guys are a huge part of the Halo community, one of which being a current commentator for the events. I must say I am kind of surprised about the way they acted, nothing about what they said was really harsh in any way, I mean all they really said was SC2 was full of nerds without style, which for the most part is true. I just think the way they presented it and voiced their opinion was in a really bad way. I visit the MLG forums regular due to my past connection with Halo, and the talk about SC2 on there from the Halo scene is more or less like that as well, not everyone obviously, but there is a huge ignorance towards SC2 and a bias towards Halo. This is of course going to be the case, Starcraft 2 basically came in and in one year has taken MLG by the reigns and became the star while Halo is falling to the side, the Halo community will be upset. There is definitely bias and ignorance on these forums as well when it comes to SC2 / Halo, it's just one communities perspective compared to another.
All they are trying to do is get their game back to where it used to be. Halo Reach was a huge flop for the competitive scene, the changes introduced with the release of the game did not go well for MLG at all, and it lost a lot of that fire it once had with Halo CE/2/3. I just think the way they tried to motivate their community by trash talking SC2 players and its community was in bad taste. Which if you look at it, what they said about how the SC2 players have no life outside their game, what they are basically saying is that the SC2 Pros are just more dedicated to the game, to their job than the Halo community. I mean you didn't hate on Wayne Gretzky for playing too much hockey, because that's what he was passionate about, that's what he did.
Overall I understand what those three guys were trying to get done with that whole episode, but they did it in the dumbest way possible.
Writing this quick and sloppy - on my way to work.
The conversation, I felt, was intended to be more like a football vs baseball conversation that a couple of friends at the bar would have. At least that was my mindset. If I ever imagined the exposure this would've gotten (thanks Kennigit), I'm sure most of us would've chose different language. I thought it was light-hearted and held no real merit. The topic is obviously fluff but it seems to have struck a nerve with a lot of Redditor's.
Actually, this stemmed from a conversation that Starcraft players are more dedicated, putting in countless hours where Halo players are not and therefor have more time to do other things.
I'm fully aware of the godly Korean fashion sense. Koreans playing soccer with other houses. EG dudes hitting the gym together. Again, the first five minutes of our conversation holds no weight -- as we were hamming up our obnoxious characters.
I do understand why some would get defensive. I'm not as hardcore as many of the people out there. More like a birds-eye-view. I get that this is a way of life for some, so any sort of criticism is taken pretty personally. In all honesty though, I don't think I would ever get upset if someone outside of my community compared the wardrobe of players. Regardless, the entire point is worthless and it's a shame you had to see those 5 minutes over some of the other content we've produced.
I appreciate most of the TL dudes dismissing the importance of this video. Just wanted to let you know where this came from.
Regardless,
I never considered myself a leader of the Halo community. I'm certainly not speaking on there behalf. I'm hardly speaking on my own behalf.
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
Totally agree with this statement since it is, according to me, the truth.
The way they apologized was that they were correct and didn't expect to get so much flak for insulting an entire community. "because ya'll got so upset we must have struck a nerve." He just basically said I am sorry, but you are in the wrong.
Shouldn't really call the second video an apology because it seems passive aggressive but whatever, I only was upset initially because I don't like my community being insulted.
That being said, I don't have a problem with the halo community or their game, I don't like watching halo but I don't mind it.
I really hope this whole thing is just a joke and trolling. No offence for the Halo players but Halo is by far the midget of FPS eSports. Maybe in USA its more hyped but, CS, Quake, CoD series are way way way ahead !
Even more disappointing than the video itself is the poor judgment of these icons in the Halo community. Their intent may have been to generate pride within the Halo community, but obviously their decision had the opposite effect. If any figure of the SC2 community came out to bash another gaming community, I would feel shame and anger for being part of such a group.
If you truly want to better your community, fully own up to your mistakes and show a model of responsibility. Be it console or PC, professional or casual, gamers support other gamers, simple as that.
On December 07 2011 02:47 Zion9 wrote: I really hope this whole thing is just a joke and trolling. No offence for the Halo players but Halo is by far the midget of FPS eSports. Maybe in USA its more hyped but, CS, Quake, CoD series are way way way ahead !
CoD may sell a billion copies but it will never be successful long term as an Esport because the game has no competitive merit
On December 07 2011 02:47 Zion9 wrote: I really hope this whole thing is just a joke and trolling. No offence for the Halo players but Halo is by far the midget of FPS eSports. Maybe in USA its more hyped but, CS, Quake, CoD series are way way way ahead !
CoD may sell a billion copies but it will never be successful long term as an Esport because the game has no competitive merit
I can absolutely agree here with you. But as a community it is way bigger then Halo or any console community. In my opinion (as a past Cod player) CoD requires less skill then CS or Quake mostly because of one single fact. Crosshair was removed. And this goes for every new FPS game. The game may look fancy but its not that good without a crosshair. And yes, Activision is the one who killed the CoD series by focusing more on sales and casual players instead of pro/competitive gaming.
I don't post here but I would like to say that I have 100% converted to SC2 and I think its the greatest game I have ever played even surpassing Halo 2. With that said I have been a mainstay in the Halo forum community since 2005, with maxed out forum reputation with a couple montages etc. I got by Acklete over at the MLG forums.
I would like to point out one thing clearly, you keep talking about these guys as like icons of Halo and faces of halo and that is 100% not true what so ever. Ghandi is the only person up there that I even associate Halo with, Nexy has been a good member of the MLG community for a long time, Dmaq on the other hand while working for MLG I have never seen him really do anything note worthy and I honestly think every time he opens his mouth that MLG could easily find someone better to do what he does. Now with that said these people are not the face and voice of Halo AT ALL! You are talking about them as if they were Day 9, Tastetosis, Idra, MVP, Nestea, HuK etc. When these guys besides Ghandi are more like Rotterdam, and VVV Titan. Yes some people may know them but they are not faces of SC and unless you really focus and watch all the tournaments and all the streams you wouldn't even know who these people are.
OGRE 1, OGRE 2, Walshy, T2, Roy, Shockwav3, Lunchbox, Pistola, Legit, Naded these are people who have been around forever these are players with success, some of them now work for MLG and commentate like Shockwav3. Do not associate Halo with these people. Halo has dropped off quick, Halo 3 and Halo Reach are terrible games that brought out a terrible community, but Halo: CE and Halo 2 were great games that a lot of us joined MLG with, and when no one else was playing Halo MLG took it and blew it up into something that was covered by ESPN 3 with tons and tons of viewers, Halo had a show on G4, and USA network before that. You can dismiss Halo all you want because most people on this site are PC players, but Halo used to take a ridiculous amount of skill and teamwork and to dismiss this game and say its nothing compared to Quake or CS or the likes well that just ignorant. Those games may have big followings in Europe and what not, but none of them were played on network television in the United States like Halo was, none of those games were covered by ESPN and were on the ESPN ticker.
What these people said was not that bad, its not something to bow your chest out over and draw a line in the sand and say "We will not take this Halo community" it is not a big deal they often, often talk about the good things about SC and the community. Yes they said a stupid statement but don't just say well thats Halo kids for you because these are not the face of Halo, and they have a game that is dying, and a piss poor community so you need to sympathize with them a little bit. They are trying to keep Halo alive and make it sustainable again, they didn't realize what they did was going to backfire and hurt the game more then it helped, because honestly it was such a small jab it shouldn't even be taken that way.
TLDR: These are not the faces of Halo, besides Ghandi they are no bigger then SC semi pro or Rotterdam or some other small caster. They took a jab at SC in a joking manner, and everyone took it the wrong way and blew it out of proportion. Halo is dying they are trying to keep it alive and they want to model it after SC. SC community needs to grow up and forget this even happened because its irrelevant.
This just seems silly. They should be happy Halo got any recognition AT ALL as a competitive sport, since it, and console games in general, are a farce. If we compare it to CS, Quake, UT2k... Halo looks like barbie pony adventures.
On December 07 2011 04:48 Twistacles wrote: This just seems silly. They should be happy Halo got any recognition AT ALL as a competitive sport, since it, and console games in general, are a farce. If we compare it to CS, Quake, UT2k... Halo looks like barbie pony adventures.
you should try to be more ignorant the next time you post, I bet you cant do it
In all seriousness as Acklete said Halo CE and Halo 2 were the peak of competitive halo and if you have never played them at a remotely high level then you cannot speak of its competitive merit when compared to PC shooters
On December 07 2011 04:01 ETAnomaly wrote: You can dismiss Halo all you want because most people on this site are PC players, but Halo used to take a ridiculous amount of skill and teamwork and to dismiss this game and say its nothing compared to Quake or CS or the likes well that just ignorant. Those games may have big followings in Europe and what not, but none of them were played on network television in the United States like Halo was, none of those games were covered by ESPN and were on the ESPN ticker.
The success that the Halo franchise once had in the United States isn't related to how it compares to other competitive shooters. The fact remains that Halo skill is "capped" FAR lower than Quake or Counter-Strike. That can't be argued. It's simple mechanics. It's like comparing Starcraft PC and Starcraft N64. Just like no one can have 300 meaningful APM with a game pad, the Quake and Counter-Strike players will always have developed their aim and movement more because the hardware and interface allows for it to happen.
Was Halo a great game? Yes. Was it fun to watch? At times, yes. Will it ever be in the same league as Quake and Counter-Strike as far as esports goes? No. And as you mentioned, now the franchise is going in the wrong direction and attracting the wrong crowd.
EDIT: No, I haven't played Halo competitively besides local tournaments with friends when Halo / Halo 2 were big. The main point of this post was to comment on the skill ranges of each game and why Halo matches will never be as exciting as Quake, Counter-Strike, or SC2.
The success that the Halo franchise once had in the United States isn't related to how it compares to other competitive shooters. The fact remains that Halo skill is "capped" FAR lower than Quake or Counter-Strike. That can't be argued. It's simple mechanics. It's like comparing Starcraft PC and Starcraft N64. Just like no one can have 300 meaningful APM with a game pad, the Quake and Counter-Strike players will always have developed their aim and movement more because the hardware and interface allows for it to happen.
Was Halo a great game? Yes. Was it fun to watch? At times, yes. Will it ever be in the same league as Quake and Counter-Strike as far as esports goes? No. And as you mentioned, now the franchise is going in the wrong direction and attracting the wrong crowd.
EDIT: No, I haven't played Halo competitively besides local tournaments with friends when Halo / Halo 2 were big. The main point of this post was to comment on the skill ranges of each game and why Halo matches will never be as exciting as Quake, Counter-Strike, or SC2.
I understand where you are coming from, but there was no 'limit' to how good you could be in halo CE or H2, and as far as it being as exciting to watch, reach and h3 are very dull and i would much rather watch SC2 but you saying they are more fun to watch is really just your opinion
I haven't read every single post here, but my two cents.
I played Halo 2 a lot when MLG went through its first boom with that game. I played local tournaments and online games with MLG pros, but I didn't stay in the community for a very long time. From what I personally saw, the Halo players (mainly the big name pros) in the MLG scene didn't do a whole lot themselves to promote competitive gaming in general. I have seen videos (you may be able to find them) of players (who were largely at the time considered the best in the game) on the top teams at the time losing games in the Halo2 matchmaking system, and talking trash to their opponents the whole time about how they are MLG pros, and their opponents are garbage and should quit. When their opponents were winning.
Sure, the SC2 scene has plenty of players like this. But when professionals in a game that draws as many casual players at high levels as Halo or CoD act like this, it turns people off to that scene. I know plenty of people considered MLG players to be stuck up, and have a "holier-than-thou" attitude when it game to the games for no reason other than that they played in the MLG because one or two people they met online acted like this.
Things like that don't promote the pro scene, and they certainly don't encourage other people to watch something like the MLG in their free time. And unfortunately, the players that we see bashing the SC2 and professional PC gaming scene in general are wondering why SC2 is getting the major spotlight, and why their game isn't that big, but instead of looking for answers, they just continue to bash. Maybe my viewpoint is wrong here, and I am certainly aware that not all console pros have this mindset, but the ones that do unfortunately out-voice the ones that don't.
On December 07 2011 04:01 ETAnomaly wrote: You can dismiss Halo all you want because most people on this site are PC players, but Halo used to take a ridiculous amount of skill and teamwork and to dismiss this game and say its nothing compared to Quake or CS or the likes well that just ignorant. Those games may have big followings in Europe and what not, but none of them were played on network television in the United States like Halo was, none of those games were covered by ESPN and were on the ESPN ticker.
The success that the Halo franchise once had in the United States isn't related to how it compares to other competitive shooters. The fact remains that Halo skill is "capped" FAR lower than Quake or Counter-Strike. That can't be argued. It's simple mechanics. It's like comparing Starcraft PC and Starcraft N64. Just like no one can have 300 meaningful APM with a game pad, the Quake and Counter-Strike players will always have developed their aim and movement more because the hardware and interface allows for it to happen.
Was Halo a great game? Yes. Was it fun to watch? At times, yes. Will it ever be in the same league as Quake and Counter-Strike as far as esports goes? No. And as you mentioned, now the franchise is going in the wrong direction and attracting the wrong crowd.
EDIT: No, I haven't played Halo competitively besides local tournaments with friends when Halo / Halo 2 were big. The main point of this post was to comment on the skill ranges of each game and why Halo matches will never be as exciting as Quake, Counter-Strike, or SC2.
That is hear say, as you said you have never played at that level so how would you know the level of skill that the game possessed and where the skill was capped? I can tell you that even 3 years of Halo 2 evolving at the professional level the game still had an evolving meta game and the skill level was still going up when they switched to Halo 3. Again this is PC dominated forum because we all play SC2 which is the PC platform. If you never played CS or Quake or Halo at the professional level its impossible to compare the skill that is required, with that said this is not the point of my post at all, my post was not about the skill required in halo
My point of the entire post is that Dmaq and Nexy are the not faces of Halo, they are not spokesmen of halo and they should not be treated as such. Some people that work for MLG took a small jab at SC that was blown way out of proportion they praise the game far more then they put it down and we should all move past this because its stupid.
We as an Esports community should support Halo and help them get back to what they were even if the game is not at the level it used to be. I am not going back to Halo but I support the community and I hope halo can resurrect itself and come back. The Halo community around today mostly came around with Halo 3 and Halo Reach and they are younger people and yes they can look ignorant, but they have a game they are passionate about like we are SC. Bungie ruined Halo that is not MLG or Halo communities fault?
Esports needs all games to be successful, that is the only way we can set ourselves up long term, Esports needs to be recognized as real as professional sports are and we need all games for that, not just DOTA LoL and SC
The success that the Halo franchise once had in the United States isn't related to how it compares to other competitive shooters. The fact remains that Halo skill is "capped" FAR lower than Quake or Counter-Strike. That can't be argued. It's simple mechanics. It's like comparing Starcraft PC and Starcraft N64. Just like no one can have 300 meaningful APM with a game pad, the Quake and Counter-Strike players will always have developed their aim and movement more because the hardware and interface allows for it to happen.
Was Halo a great game? Yes. Was it fun to watch? At times, yes. Will it ever be in the same league as Quake and Counter-Strike as far as esports goes? No. And as you mentioned, now the franchise is going in the wrong direction and attracting the wrong crowd.
EDIT: No, I haven't played Halo competitively besides local tournaments with friends when Halo / Halo 2 were big. The main point of this post was to comment on the skill ranges of each game and why Halo matches will never be as exciting as Quake, Counter-Strike, or SC2.
I understand where you are coming from, but there was no 'limit' to how good you could be in halo CE or H2, and as far as it being as exciting to watch, reach and h3 are very dull and i would much rather watch SC2 but you saying they are more fun to watch is really just your opinion
Not sure whether I came across clearly in the first post. I'm saying that any console game inherently has a lower skill ceiling than a game played using a mouse and keyboard. It's not anything about Halo specifically, but rather the platform.
Sure, some people are REALLY good at Halo, but there's little to no room for innovation comparatively. Other games, specifically stuff like Quake, CS, and SC (the "legends" of esports if you will) will always be more fun to watch because you get to see surprise results. There's more room for innovation and (legal) exploitation of in game events. It's difficult to explain unless you have enough background in each game to really understand what you're watching.
EDIT: Maybe it is just me... I dunno... it's the same reason I can't enjoy watching basketball. When watching Halo, the only explanation the commentators could offer as to why an engagement played out a certain way was "because player A had bad aim". It's not because "player B outplayed him because he was able to do A, B, C, and D and player A thought he was doing E"
The success that the Halo franchise once had in the United States isn't related to how it compares to other competitive shooters. The fact remains that Halo skill is "capped" FAR lower than Quake or Counter-Strike. That can't be argued. It's simple mechanics. It's like comparing Starcraft PC and Starcraft N64. Just like no one can have 300 meaningful APM with a game pad, the Quake and Counter-Strike players will always have developed their aim and movement more because the hardware and interface allows for it to happen.
Was Halo a great game? Yes. Was it fun to watch? At times, yes. Will it ever be in the same league as Quake and Counter-Strike as far as esports goes? No. And as you mentioned, now the franchise is going in the wrong direction and attracting the wrong crowd.
EDIT: No, I haven't played Halo competitively besides local tournaments with friends when Halo / Halo 2 were big. The main point of this post was to comment on the skill ranges of each game and why Halo matches will never be as exciting as Quake, Counter-Strike, or SC2.
I understand where you are coming from, but there was no 'limit' to how good you could be in halo CE or H2, and as far as it being as exciting to watch, reach and h3 are very dull and i would much rather watch SC2 but you saying they are more fun to watch is really just your opinion
Not sure whether I came across clearly in the first post. I'm saying that any console game inherently has a lower skill ceiling than a game played using a mouse and keyboard. It's not anything about Halo specifically, but rather the platform.
Sure, some people are REALLY good at Halo, but there's little to no room for innovation comparatively. Other games, specifically stuff like Quake, CS, and SC (the "legends" of esports if you will) will always be more fun to watch because you get to see surprise results. There's more room for innovation and (legal) exploitation of in game events. It's difficult to explain unless you have enough background in each game to really understand what you're watching.
Why do these games have inherently higher skill gaps? and the exploitation of (legal) events in games have happened always in Halo such as the Backpack reload in Halo CE, and the BXR, RRX, and grenade reloading of Halo 2.
If you took the top Quake player who only plays on PC and put him into an MLG match against a top Pro halo player they won't get a frag. If you put the top Halo player who never plays Quake he won't get a frag either. Just because you have bias towards PC games and claim they have higher skill ceilings does not mean that they do. This is something that simply can not be proved or even debated because you have nothing close to facts to support your claim.
I think if anything can prove the skill gap of Halo its that the best Halo player of all time has 5 MLG national championships across 3 different halo games. He also is undefeated with his twin brother in 2v2 tournaments, I am talking about OGRE 2. Even though he pioneered competitive Halo he still not only competes but dominates against new players who got to grow up with competitive halo and watch him for years. He still dominates because Halo has a high skill ceiling.
On December 07 2011 04:48 Twistacles wrote: This just seems silly. They should be happy Halo got any recognition AT ALL as a competitive sport, since it, and console games in general, are a farce. If we compare it to CS, Quake, UT2k... Halo looks like barbie pony adventures.
you should try to be more ignorant the next time you post, I bet you cant do it
In all seriousness as Acklete said Halo CE and Halo 2 were the peak of competitive halo and if you have never played them at a remotely high level then you cannot speak of its competitive merit when compared to PC shooters
Okay, calling it a farce is harsh.
Let me reword it.
There is definitely a lot of skill involved. I won't dispute this. Perhaps it's my biased CS-competitive days, but I believe that the skill cap is inherently lower because of the physical limitations of a controller. It's a different KIND of skill-set, but I believe there's more room to GROW with the PC-model. It's not by some gargantuan margin like I made it seem, and I apologize, but it's still significant.
The success that the Halo franchise once had in the United States isn't related to how it compares to other competitive shooters. The fact remains that Halo skill is "capped" FAR lower than Quake or Counter-Strike. That can't be argued. It's simple mechanics. It's like comparing Starcraft PC and Starcraft N64. Just like no one can have 300 meaningful APM with a game pad, the Quake and Counter-Strike players will always have developed their aim and movement more because the hardware and interface allows for it to happen.
Was Halo a great game? Yes. Was it fun to watch? At times, yes. Will it ever be in the same league as Quake and Counter-Strike as far as esports goes? No. And as you mentioned, now the franchise is going in the wrong direction and attracting the wrong crowd.
EDIT: No, I haven't played Halo competitively besides local tournaments with friends when Halo / Halo 2 were big. The main point of this post was to comment on the skill ranges of each game and why Halo matches will never be as exciting as Quake, Counter-Strike, or SC2.
I understand where you are coming from, but there was no 'limit' to how good you could be in halo CE or H2, and as far as it being as exciting to watch, reach and h3 are very dull and i would much rather watch SC2 but you saying they are more fun to watch is really just your opinion
Not sure whether I came across clearly in the first post. I'm saying that any console game inherently has a lower skill ceiling than a game played using a mouse and keyboard. It's not anything about Halo specifically, but rather the platform.
Sure, some people are REALLY good at Halo, but there's little to no room for innovation comparatively. Other games, specifically stuff like Quake, CS, and SC (the "legends" of esports if you will) will always be more fun to watch because you get to see surprise results. There's more room for innovation and (legal) exploitation of in game events. It's difficult to explain unless you have enough background in each game to really understand what you're watching.
Why do these games have inherently higher skill gaps? and the exploitation of (legal) events in games have happened always in Halo such as the Backpack reload in Halo CE, and the BXR, RRX, and grenade reloading of Halo 2.
If you took the top Quake player who only plays on PC and put him into an MLG match against a top Pro halo player they won't get a frag. If you put the top Halo player who never plays Quake he won't get a frag either. Just because you have bias towards PC games and claim they have higher skill ceilings does not mean that they do. This is something that simply can not be proved or even debated because you have nothing close to facts to support your claim.
I think if anything can prove the skill gap of Halo its that the best Halo player of all time has 5 MLG national championships across 3 different halo games. He also is undefeated with his twin brother in 2v2 tournaments, I am talking about OGRE 2. Even though he pioneered competitive Halo he still not only competes but dominates against new players who got to grow up with competitive halo and watch him for years. He still dominates because Halo has a high skill ceiling.
I still don't think you understand what I'm getting at. I'm saying that in any console game, you'll never have the room for the reaction that you do with a mouse and keyboard. Even if Quake started next year in MLG on the Xbox 360... I'd love to see someone try to strafejump with an Xbox controller. Or hit a flick rail shot.
I think that one player dominating, especially in different releases of the game, shows its shallow nature. It shows how little you really have to master before you are able to compete at a high level. Has there been dominance in PC based games? Sure. Team 3D, SK Gaming, NoA in CS to name a few were THE teams to beat at times. Are any of them a force in Source? Not really, comparatively speaking. In Quake I can't really think of the "guy to beat". There are so many people at the top, each with significantly different playstyles because the game allows it. However, you didn't see the top Q3 players dominating Q4, because it was a DIFFERENT game that rewarded different playstyles. vo0 dominated the Painkiller scene for the majority of the games life, then fatal1ty came back to uncover a flaw in his gameplay to win the grand finals coming back from the losers bracket. Naniwa dominated MLG Providence, embarrassing many favorites, but relied too heavily on his FFE build iirc. Leenock took advantage of that and was able to rattle off 4 wins in a row. SC2 doesn't require high APM as much as BW and cheesing is looked down upon instead of being an amazing feat to pull off.
Really, if you could aim with the joystick, you were good at Halo. Whether it was a pistol, BR, whatever the hell they're using now. Sniper, etc, whatever. Maybe I'll talk with my buddy about it tonight. He played Halo at a higher level than I did.
Sorry if this is all over the place... I'm at work.
EDIT: Also I don't necessarily mean exploits of game mechanics... I mean player A did this wrong so this opens all of these options for player B. A simple example would be the chain kills you could get in Q4 if you knew the spawn points... a kill could turn into 6 or 7 pretty quickly especially on small maps.
oh man. i hope sc2 fans don't do the same thing the halo guys did in this video to us to them. holy shit what a crazy sentence. anyhow guys it's all for the same cause, competitive gaming, how about everyone just relax! have a great day!
If this is Halo's equivalent to SoTG or LoT or Day9's show, then holy shit, no wonder Halo's community and popularity is beginning to dwindle. I've watched the whole thing and even beyond the initial bashing of Starcraft (our players aren't "stylish"? What the hell does that even mean?) they just complain for the rest of the video about their community and their game. The whole time the tone of the second guy is angry and they have some kind of "plan" for the future that they never actually state.
Excuse me while I go buy some nicer looking clothes *cry*
I've personally experienced that other gaming communities seem to think of Starcraft in a VERY negative way. Mostly they revolve around that argument that Halo is a casual game, and is therefore a less, "Nerdy," game.
1. I play console and Starcraft equally, so I hope that my bias is minimal when I say this (I like em all rather equally): The Starcraft community is by far the best that I know of. No other group/forum/teams have EVER treated me as kindly and well as any Starcraft community has. Real Life friends of mine that I play Halo with aren't as generally kind as some random Starcraft players that I find on a daily basis. 2 Halo/Console Gaming as a whole is definitely a more casual game. That's not deniable, nor is it a good thing. These guys are saying that it makes them more desirable/"Normal," but to me, it sounds less competitive/more random. Any asshole can (and does...) jump on Halo on xbox live and be , but that level of commitment of legitimate interest in the game is what separates the casuals and dicks from Starcraft.
TL;DR: Starcraft Community is the best I know, and Halo being "Casual"/"Normal," = Assholes.
EDIT: On the topic of E-Sports, I think that a game is judged based on its merit, not its community. I honestly think that Halo has taken a SERIOUS competitive downturn since Halo 2, and within the first two weeks of release, I lost almost all interest in Reach. I would be surprised if Halo isn't at MLG next time, but I wouldn't consider it a loss.
2nd EDIT: The more I listen to this video, the more I remember why I hate console-based communities. This is easily the dumbest video I've seen in weeks. "Halo Dudes," vs. "Starcraft Nerds"? This is fucking disgusting and I'd be ashamed if they were the representatives of my game...
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
Totally agree with this statement since it is, according to me, the truth.
Halo guys joke around about style, and everybody gets mad. PC guys cut to the chase and call Halo a joke, and bash it constantly, yet that's completely fine apparently. The hate here is a one way street I see.
They aren't shitting on SC2 that much (at least in the first 10 mins that I watched). Basically all they've said is SC2 pros have no lives (which is true).
After that they go on and bash their own community.
Seriously this seems like drama for the sake of drama.
On December 05 2011 11:01 Mity wrote: Don't really care what they think? Halo compared to Quake, Counter-Strike and other FPS games is a laughable excuse for an eSport. (Just personal opinion, dont bother flaming me.)
Totally agree with this statement since it is, according to me, the truth.
Halo guys joke around about style, and everybody gets mad. PC guys cut to the chase and call Halo a joke, and bash it constantly, yet that's completely fine apparently. The hate here is a one way street I see.
Exactly. It's fucking ridiculous how much communities hate on each other.
If there's a market for a particular esport, who the fuck is anyone to shit on it?
I'm so sick and tired of seeing this sort of nonsense.
On December 07 2011 06:39 DoomsVille wrote: I don't see what the big deal is here.
They aren't shitting on SC2 that much (at least in the first 10 mins that I watched). Basically all they've said is SC2 pros have no lives (which is true).
After that they go on and bash their own community.
Seriously this seems like drama for the sake of drama.
Well I guess we could be more specific and say that members of Korean pro teams have no lives. *psst, Greg, that's your chance to chime in on team houses in Korea*
The audacity of these kids to cite impulse as an excuse for their actions... They tell us to calm the fuck down because their video was a joke "out-of-context", but second later they declare that they'll continue to bash the SC2 community to help themselves.
Starcraft 2 didn't grow huge because we bashed other games on the way to the top. We had strong leaders, a great game, and fans willing to work hard for progress. For the time being, it seems that Halo has none of that.
There is definitely a lot of skill involved. I won't dispute this. Perhaps it's my biased CS-competitive days, but I believe that the skill cap is inherently lower because of the physical limitations of a controller. It's a different KIND of skill-set, but I believe there's more room to GROW with the PC-model. It's not by some gargantuan margin like I made it seem, and I apologize, but it's still significant.
sounds good, maybe I took your post a little too literally, regardless of the skill gap involved just like Acklete said those guys do not speak for all of us halo players, and most any halo player who appreciates Esports have become huge fans of starcraft because we enjoy people playing at a high level regardless of the game. I was blown away by the Quake 1v1 finals at Dreamhack and I really enjoyed them, but that didnt detract from my love for halo. We all need to support each other and I think Nexy may have went about things the wrong way but he is just trying to fire up the community and calling out the SC community may not have been the right way to do that. Regardless.....
Halo is a shit game. Halo is a fun time. It's for the casual gamer and will never have a "real" competitive scene. The fact that it is an FPS played with a controller should make this obvious. The one time I watched an MLG match of Halo it was a constant barrage of grenade spam. I could not handle it for more than a minute. I have over 10 years of FPS experience so please do not try to tell me I do not understand what is going on. Games like Counter-Strike are head and shoulders above Halo at a competetive level.
Just let these Halo "pros" pretend they are competing in the real world and just ignore them. There is a reason their presence at MLG is suffering. It is because the game does not deserve to be there. At the very least, they will draw new people to real games that are being broad-casted alongside them.
I think a point needs to be made about games like SC and CS. These are games that have huge skill ceilings are not meant for casual gamers to be competitive in. However, they are awesome for casual gamers to watch. Halo does not fit into that category.
On December 07 2011 06:39 DoomsVille wrote: I don't see what the big deal is here.
They aren't shitting on SC2 that much (at least in the first 10 mins that I watched). Basically all they've said is SC2 pros have no lives (which is true).
After that they go on and bash their own community.
Seriously this seems like drama for the sake of drama.
Well I guess we could be more specific and say that members of Korean pro teams have no lives. *psst, Greg, that's your chance to chime in on team houses in Korea*
no lives? are you guys serious? they have plenty of friends and they have social lives, the only issue is girlfriends but I guess thats a sacrifice. And their job is way more fun than working 9-5 5days a week. If working your ass off in a boring office is what having a life is, that sucks. No life, thats probably the worst term ever created. Playing a computer all day is having no life but working in a office all day is having a life lol. Id rather have no life. And both options have friends, one of them just sucks.
I'm fine with having Halo etc. less competitive games in tournaments in order to get more people to the event and more viewers for streams. And by less competitive I mean non fully committed players like Starcraft players are.
I'd love to watch Quakeworld/Quakelive/Team Fortress 2 matches played on stage though.
On December 07 2011 06:39 DoomsVille wrote: I don't see what the big deal is here.
They aren't shitting on SC2 that much (at least in the first 10 mins that I watched). Basically all they've said is SC2 pros have no lives (which is true).
After that they go on and bash their own community.
Seriously this seems like drama for the sake of drama.
Well I guess we could be more specific and say that members of Korean pro teams have no lives. *psst, Greg, that's your chance to chime in on team houses in Korea*
no lives? are you guys serious? they have plenty of friends and they have social lives, the only issue is girlfriends but I guess thats a sacrifice. And their job is way more fun than working 9-5 5days a week. If working your ass off in a boring office is what having a life is, that sucks. No life, thats probably the worst term ever created. Playing a computer all day is having no life but working in a office all day is having a life lol. Id rather have no life. And both options have friends, one of them just sucks.
Well I think we're all speaking in a traditional sense... having a life = time spent away from the game.
The thing that really gets on my nerves is that they first admit to not know anything about the starcraft community, and not to follow the scene.Then proceed to make some outrageous generalizations about how everyone who enjoys starcraft must be, and what they look like.
Also i hope i don't have to point out that it is a guy with a sports tshirt/hat with glasses, a chubby guy in a hoodie and someone who lost their trimmer who's talking shit here, i bet they get mad strange.
Furthermore it is a bit ironic that 3 people whose living depends on the success of Esports as a franchise, is judging the people who work the hardest to be the best at what the love, but also not slow to point out how Halo is more of a hobby than anything. Nice going boys!
I don't know why they say we claim we're not nerdy. We are nerds and we are proud to be nerds. What we aren't are all the stigma associated with nerds (i.e. forever alone, no friends, no social skills, etc.). SCII people tend to have a lot of friends who also play SCII, do they count as friends? We also go to Barcrafts. Does socializing with other SCII people count as socializing?
The thing about Starcraft is that it tends to be seen as "just another game" to those who don't actually play it. People who don't play Starcraft tend to see it on the same level as Halo, CoD, WoW, LoL, etc. But that is where they are wrong. Starcraft is a very intellectually demanding game (raise your hand if you have already compared SCII to chess). Of course, when we say that to "normal" people, that would just add to our "nerdiness" and their opinion of us would just worsen. (and generally that leads to an argument).
Personally, I think the best way to deal with these kind of people is to teach them how to play Starcraft. Show them that SCII is a lot of hard work, dedication, and is very intellectually demanding. It's not just infinite fun. So in general, you have to play SCII to enjoy it. And even those who don't end up sticking to the game show a lot of respect for it just because after their experience of SCII, they finally understand how uneasy a game it is. (My dad used to hate it, but now he understands because I taught him the game ^^)
Also, I never do this and I'm usually very respectful towards others, but to the producers of that show, if ever you read this: f*** y** for disrespecting White-Ra. You can think some players are cocky, some are cheesy, some have no style, you can even say toss is imba, but NO ONE disrespects White-Ra.
I know someone who watches Halo every MLG. He seems to really enjoy it, though I've never been able to get into watching FPS. It's reasonably interesting, but I just don't know enough or care enough for it to come off as much of anything other than someone running around shooting things and dieing every five seconds.
That being said, this kind of squabbling and name-calling between games is bad. The infrastructure and audience that each game creates indirectly and directly benefits other games. One game can forge the path and others follow in its footsteps. And even with one main dominant ESPORTS title, you can still have various smaller niche scenes under the umbrella of ESPORTS. Which is the main point I'm trying to make, I guess. We're all under the umbrella of ESPORTS, all nerds, and if there are divisions within that, they really NEED to be arranged in relationships of mutual benefit and aid, not mutual destruction. Having multiple games within ESPORTS helps to keep things fresh and draw in new audiences. It benefits all games and ESPORTS as a whole when a given game does well.
If these guys really apologized, let's see some reconciliation, and move on. No need to make this any bigger than it has to be.
In conclusion, in order to promote the cause of peace, I will post a happy, bouncy rainbow sheep.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JSOOk.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8wJBD.jpg)
The apology is hilarous.![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/issue/1319266279_2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://evolveent.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/starcraft-custom-sneakers-protoss.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/HawaiianPig/fashionseal.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/24Uc4.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/R1CH/Happy2.gif)
