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The mechanics from BW translate better to SC2 than WC3.
Also the Korean BW players were miles better than the EU BW players. Also there were a lot more KR BW players (these guys play it like a national sport) than EU BW players. If you look at the scene now, the top players in KR are former BW pros, many of which were B-teamers, and many of which would have probably beaten EU BW players in BW.
Also the foreign BW scene was far less developed than the foreign WC3 scene, making it seem like the WC3 scene is dominating. Your argument ignores players like Morrow, Mana, Idra, Socke, Dimaga and WhiteRa, former BW pros who are also at the top tier of foreign SC2. It's just that there are far less notable foreign BW pros.
That is not to say that WC3 players (or other RTS players) can't become top players. You yourself have pointed out all the WC3 pros. Polt, a GSL champ, is also a former WC3 player (semi-pro I believe). Select, who had some pro WC3 experience but made his mark in DoW is also someone of note. It's a different game and anyone can be on top.
The fact remains though that it's easier for BW mechanics (particularly with the Korean BW training regimen) to translate to SC2 and BW players are more likely to be better than their WC3 counterparts.
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On October 25 2011 20:53 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 20:49 Fionn wrote:
Polt was a WC3 player and has won a GSL.
The main reason a lot of BW purists hate WC3 players is because a lot of them are more micro-oriented than playing long, macro-style games that a lot of Brood War players bring.
you are right on the macro-style, but the average wc3 game lasted longer than the average sc2 game....since many sc2 games are decided by 1-2 major battles after teching up / massing units the reason for that is actually quite simple: natural defense was insanely strong in wc3, there was literally no way you should ever lose a game early on
lol tower rush ?
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Don't hate on Moon, man . .
You do not diss the 5th race.
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This was BW forum for many years so it's completely normal that we hype transition from BW to WC3 because we watched some of these players for last couple of years just like you watched wc3 players. So.. we just don't care about wc3.
As for dominating the scene. BW scene was and currently still is the heighest competitive progaming scene. That's just a fact. Invested time and money into BW as esports can't be compared with anything else so yea, those who managed to be top10 in BW are just beasts. They have required talent, dedication and experience.
Just take a look at some of top players in korea now, they mostly played BW and they weren't even really really good at it.
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I don't think I've seen any hate towards wc3 players...
That said, the reason people think top bw players would dominate sc2 is that it's much much harder to compete and actually win a proleague title than it ever was to win any wc3 tournament. The community is a lot larger and the top players are a lot more professional (team houses, practice regimen) than players of any other esport.
wc3 was more professional in the foreign scene, that's why we see a lot of ex-wc3 players among the top sc2 foreigners, but the vast majority of the dominating koreans were former (mediocre) bw pros (MVP, Nestea, MC).
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I'd like to add that top 4 in TSL3 was from wc3.(also all from eu :p)
Haven't experienced any hate on wc3 tho, no.
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Btw .. contrary to popular belief .. in PC Bangs, WC3 is more played than BW.
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Whether is old or new debate I see often flame wars and wanted to know reason. Naniwa was anywhere near top level and he is not really man spoke man of wc3. If Grubby say that I will understand. I understand BW was slightly harder but many of you does not see some things in wc3 just like we dont see in BW.
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On October 25 2011 21:00 aimaimaim wrote:
Btw .. contrary to popular belief .. in PC Bangs, WC3 is more played than BW.
isn't that because of dota though
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On October 25 2011 20:54 aendi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 20:48 DrGreen wrote:
Maybe because "WC3 requires half or less skill which is required to play SC2" - Naniwa.
so funny how much shit Nani is talking about wc3 when he was never actually good at it. he still balancewhines every chance he can get. so no, Naniwa is no authority about whether sc2 is actually harder than wc3.
He never did WC3 fulltime. Also do u know any undead player winning something?
U can ask same question any ex-wc3 SC2 player and he will tell u exact same thing.
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The bias (not hate) against WC3 players and for SC1 players just stems from the fact that those who played BW were already well-established and well-known in the StarCraft community, so it's really amazing to see our heroes from the previous game move into the newer one. Boxer, Nada, July, etc.
On a sidenote, I never played WC3, but I fricking love Kiwikaki.
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On October 25 2011 20:54 aendi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 20:48 DrGreen wrote:
Maybe because "WC3 requires half or less skill which is required to play SC2" - Naniwa.
so funny how much shit Nani is talking about wc3 when he was never actually good at it. he still balancewhines every chance he can get. so no, Naniwa is no authority about whether sc2 is actually harder than wc3.
and he was a horrible kiddy and same in the early stages of sc2.
he was just normal player.
its like me talking about how easy sc2 is when i dont even play the game at the highest lvl.
and when you think that wc3 was is easy than thats OK
why should this matter at all?
its like saying soccer is easier then football
wtf who cares?
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On October 25 2011 21:06 DrGreen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 20:54 aendi wrote:On October 25 2011 20:48 DrGreen wrote:
Maybe because "WC3 requires half or less skill which is required to play SC2" - Naniwa.
so funny how much shit Nani is talking about wc3 when he was never actually good at it. he still balancewhines every chance he can get. so no, Naniwa is no authority about whether sc2 is actually harder than wc3. He never did WC3 fulltime. Also do u know any undead player winning something? U can ask same question any ex-wc3 SC2 player and he will tell u exact same thing.
Actually he ran from home to begin wc3 pro career. He wasnt that good as in sc2, just that. UD's won some tourneys like ESWC (FoV), Blizzard WWI (MaDFroG) but they were so weak. I know cuz i played them, that was broken as hell. Worse then zerg before roach range 
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On October 03 2011 13:35 Naniwa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:16 Valikyr wrote:
Thanks, great interview but I dont quite agree with his views on WC3. Feels like he is saying that partly because he was a failed progamer in that game (but yes ofc both BW and SC2 is more competetive).
Naniwa fighting though! was there any successful undead progamer ? xD also i never played wc3 fulltime ^^
running out of home != playing game non stop
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On October 25 2011 21:06 DrGreen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 20:54 aendi wrote:On October 25 2011 20:48 DrGreen wrote:
Maybe because "WC3 requires half or less skill which is required to play SC2" - Naniwa.
so funny how much shit Nani is talking about wc3 when he was never actually good at it. he still balancewhines every chance he can get. so no, Naniwa is no authority about whether sc2 is actually harder than wc3. He never did WC3 fulltime. Also do u know any undead player winning something? U can ask same question any ex-wc3 SC2 player and he will tell u exact same thing.
Nani was already team hopping way back then in WC3. He did play games in WC3L.
And yeah, there are undead players winning games. Fov winning wsvg, and Ted winning a truck ton of international tournaments before his retirement, and even all-killing MYM in NGL offline finals.
Playing the broken race doesn't give you a license to cry.
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On October 25 2011 20:47 RevThirteen wrote:
There's a bias because SC1 is way more competetive and requires way higher skill then W3. Even Naniwa, who did play W3 competetivly for several years said that he doesn't think W3 deserves to be a sport.
I think naniwa is bitter about his total lack of results in wc3.
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On October 25 2011 20:44 blackbrrd wrote:
In my eyes there is no hate, maybe a bit of bias, but not that much. Good micro, but bad macro is something often attributed to wc3 players.
Imo Stephano has some of the best macro I've seen...But I get your point.... the strength of most wc3 players is their micro (except SjoW  )
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well, that's teamliquid. sc:bw biased as hell.
i would agree that the BW pro scene in KOREA is ahead and every switching progamer will make a huge impact.
but for the foreign scene the same can be said about WC3. BW was non-existent compared to WC3 in europe. WC3 had a VERY competitive scene and many huge tournaments.
nowadays it's called ESPORTS and attributed solely to SC2 / SC:BW. a pretty big mistake since the foreign scene and tournaments mostly emerged out of the WC3 scene.
there were IEMs, ESWCs, WCGs, Zotac Cups, Go4WC3s, etc. before. they just played WC3 which was unnoticed and denounced on teamliquid.
not to forget the other big esports titles: CS 1.6, Quake, UT, even FIFA.
On October 03 2011 13:35 Naniwa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:16 Valikyr wrote:
Thanks, great interview but I dont quite agree with his views on WC3. Feels like he is saying that partly because he was a failed progamer in that game (but yes ofc both BW and SC2 is more competetive).
Naniwa fighting though! was there any successful undead progamer ? xD also i never played wc3 fulltime ^^
Sweet was a very successful undead pro. Ted was good too, but never really on the top.
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There isn't any hate?.. This is a Starcraft forum. It's only to be expected that most would be more excited if Flash and the like transitioned than we were when Grubby and Moon came over..
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On October 25 2011 21:24 Jeremyy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 20:47 RevThirteen wrote:
There's a bias because SC1 is way more competetive and requires way higher skill then W3. Even Naniwa, who did play W3 competetivly for several years said that he doesn't think W3 deserves to be a sport. I think naniwa is bitter about his total lack of results in wc3.
NaNiWa whines a lot.... YES....but a total lack of skill/result in wc3 for Naniwa is also bullshit.
NaNiWa was one of the most promissing players there was, but he indeed didn't fully commit to wc3, that's probably also the reason he didn't become top 10 world wide.
SC1 wasnt more competitive in europe then wc3, the playerfield for wc3 was way bigger. I do think SC1 needs MORE/different skills then wc3, but wc3 is far from skillless. Wc3 is a more then good game, but it has hero's who do have too big of an impact to the game.
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EPT
