|
On October 26 2011 01:25 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 20:47 RevThirteen wrote:
There's a bias because SC1 is way more competetive and requires way higher skill then W3. Even Naniwa, who did play W3 competetivly for several years said that he doesn't think W3 deserves to be a sport. I love NaNiwa but he is also pretty sensational at times. Considering he was never very significant in War3 and is a top player in SC2 should speak to some difficulty. Maybe he's just bitter he never made it in war3.  <3 war3 <3 bw <3 sc2
He played Undead son...shit was tough.
|
Part of it is because in the WC3 community, progaming didn't matter as much to the casual gamer. I played WC3 Reign of Chaos and switched to TFT when it came out, but I also played Broodwar. I was barely aware of a competitive scene for WC3, but everyone talked about Boxer and other top Koreans in BW. Everyone wanted to watch replays of these famous top players, and they would talk about them in the clan channels, etc. When I was into WC3, I never really noticed anyone talking about progamers.
Then you also have to take into account iccup. If you were good enough in BW, you could play against Koreans on iccup. I remember one friend in particular, who was better than I was, showing me replays of his best games against some B+/A Koreans. I just never got the same feel from WC3, people were just on the ladder on BNET.
|
wc3 is a very difficult game to master to the highest levels. i am high masters right now in sc2 and i probably would not embarrass myself playing a pro but in WC3 you would have gotten wiped of the face of the earth when playing a pro.
starcraft 2 is a game of build orders, macro and strategy. In wc3 you can't win by macroing better or with a build order, there is no such thing.
There aren't any DT rushes, or blue flame hellion drops, proxy void rays etc. in wc3 you have to rely on unit & hero control coupled with proper map usage, creeping, item knowledge and great micro. as someone pointed out earlier a real pro could beat you with losing a single unit, because here are no extreme hardcounters in the game, collosus roflstomp marine etc.
|
On October 26 2011 01:44 Kahlgar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 01:36 Condor Hero wrote:On October 26 2011 01:33 Kahlgar wrote:
people underestimating how huge wc3 was in China itt
that being said, there is no discernable skill gap between ex wc3 and ex bw players in sc2 so wether bw was the most challenging game or not (and it prolly was) becomes irrelevent Yeah MVP, MC, Nestea and most of the other Koreans played WC3, oh wait.... might have something to do with bw being a lot bigger than war3 in Korea ya know for similar reasons the european scene is dominated by wc3 players and i have no doubt that if/when the chinese get really good at sc2, their scene will be mostly dominated by ex war3 players aswell
Dominated is a strong word. There are a lot of very strong players from both games in Europe. Neither ex-bw nor ex-wc3 players dominate the European scene.
|
I dont see any hate anymore on wc3 players. Maybe like a year ago? O_O
|
On October 25 2011 20:44 blackbrrd wrote:
In my eyes there is no hate, maybe a bit of bias, but not that much. Good micro, but bad macro is something often attributed to wc3 players.
This. I think it is often wrongly assumed that WC3 players have good micro, bad macro, when this really isn't the case.
Anyways it doesn't matter. All the pros are SC2 players now
|
OP, you're completely overreacting. The hate of which you describe is nonexisting.
|
On October 26 2011 01:26 Nawe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 23:30 ToguRo wrote:
there is no coincidence that MVP the best BW player that switched is the best SC2 player in the world What about Boxer,July,Nada?
Boxer, July, Nada get alot of Hype because they're BW legends with many Starleague titles among them, but towards the end of their BW career (around 2009-2010) they were all pretty bad. July's skill went downhill after he won his golden mouse in 2008, Nada was the only one doing ok, but still not good enough to be consistently fielded in the proleague.
|
On October 25 2011 23:11 RotterdaM wrote:Actually wonder where Johan/Nani said that cause tbh when I spoke with him in the past he always spoke very highly of wc3 oO, he loved the game and had a lot of passion for it from time to time  I could know since we were teammates for quite a while, he did pick a rather unfortunate race but then again, it was mostly about the maps. There's actually a lot of nonsense in this thread ;D wonder how many of you actually played Wc3 ;p. Saying Wc3 was easy is bullshit , if anything everybody who ever played and followed the pro scene closely knew that upsets did not happen _very_ often, just because there was an insane amount of skill and every single season you'd see the same guys (grubby/tod/creo/deadman) with the best win records in Wc3l since it was just _VERY_ hard for an inferior player to beat a guy thats actually better than you ( While as we all know, this happens quite often in SC2 , ask Greg!  ), Orc Vs UD was prolly the match-up where this happened the most, but even then, if the UD was really better he'd win most of the time. Just the simple fact that it was the same guys winning over and over again ( yet wc3 was INCREDIBLE competitive + a ton of guys REALLY tryed to be _that_ good ) shows there was a ton of skill in this game, I mean HuK and Stephano are really tearing it up lately, but its still absolutely nothing compared to what Grubby did in late 2004 till Summer 2005, it didn't matter which tournament he attended, everybody knew he was going to win, won like 4/5/6 massive tournaments on a row ;D if that ain't skill, I wonder what is , aa anyway to much text, to much passion when I'm writing bout Wc3 ;D, missing dem good old days <3 ;D hf with the discussion
Aaaah Rotti i know exactly what u mean ! Such an amazing game... sometimes i wish i could go back in time and play Warcraft 3 again and follow 4K owning everything again ! :D
Damn... BW and SC2 are amazing games too but... I don't know, warcraft 3 is so much funnier and magical... But i guess its good for esports that the two communities gather... Fuck im off topic
|
I never ever saw general hate aganist w3 players, just some haters like in any aspect of life.
|
On October 26 2011 02:03 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 01:44 Kahlgar wrote:On October 26 2011 01:36 Condor Hero wrote:On October 26 2011 01:33 Kahlgar wrote:
people underestimating how huge wc3 was in China itt
that being said, there is no discernable skill gap between ex wc3 and ex bw players in sc2 so wether bw was the most challenging game or not (and it prolly was) becomes irrelevent Yeah MVP, MC, Nestea and most of the other Koreans played WC3, oh wait.... might have something to do with bw being a lot bigger than war3 in Korea ya know for similar reasons the european scene is dominated by wc3 players and i have no doubt that if/when the chinese get really good at sc2, their scene will be mostly dominated by ex war3 players aswell Dominated is a strong word. There are a lot of very strong players from both games in Europe. Neither ex-bw nor ex-wc3 players dominate the European scene.
that's just plain wrong. looking at the numbers ex-WC3 players dominate the scene clearly, at least in europe.
it's easily over 50% ex-WC3 pros currently at the top in europe. i'd call that domination.
|
you forgot elfi as a player from WC3. also KiWiKaKi
and Maka was an amateur level WC3 player (A1.Townhall)
|
Because BW is the holy grail here and everything related to it is just better.
Personally I think players with WC3 background are doing better overall than those with a BW background, but what do I know.
|
Meh who cares, the people who are diehard BW fans are the minority yet they (from what I have observe) whine the most usually because they are diehard or reminis over ages past.
Most people don't care where you're from and I for one don't think grand BW players would dominate SC2, partly because the game is fundamentally flawed in it's design to make the best player ALWAYS win (depending on what you consider "best" though) since it's so labile that a worse player can take alot of games of a better player. However I still think they'd do great and be top 8 GSL etc. no problem.
|
WC3 was a game where the players who had better decision making and micro would win, not macro. So pro WC3 players who switched to SC2 and could macro properly are actually doing really well.
I hope a former WC3 pro wins the GSL to shut up all the people with biases
|
Many wc3pros that now play starcraft have said starcraft 2 pro scene makes wc3 look like a joke in terms of practicing and competing.
|
I think it comes down to in my opinion that WC3 is a less macro and more micro game and bw and sc2 are so macro heavy
|
On October 26 2011 02:33 dgwow wrote:WC3 was a game where the players who had better decision making and micro would win, not macro. So pro WC3 players who switched to SC2 and could macro properly are actually doing really well. I hope a former WC3 pro wins the GSL to shut up all the people with biases
Good news, it already happened (Polt). Bad news, it didn't change anything...
|
On October 26 2011 02:39 Nasradime wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 02:33 dgwow wrote:WC3 was a game where the players who had better decision making and micro would win, not macro. So pro WC3 players who switched to SC2 and could macro properly are actually doing really well. I hope a former WC3 pro wins the GSL to shut up all the people with biases Good news, it already happened (Polt). Bad news, it didn't change anything...
Well we all know your not allowed to talk about Polt!!!
|
On October 26 2011 02:28 EcstatiC wrote:
you forgot elfi as a player from WC3. also KiWiKaKi
and Maka was an amateur level WC3 player (A1.Townhall)
Well you cant make a list and not to forget someone I forgot about Phoenix_Gerrard etc
Btw what was Polts ID in wc3? Cant remember him
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
