EPTPatch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 59
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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McDylan
Canada32 Posts
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iiifated
United States76 Posts
1. You can incorporate overseers earlier in your build. 2. You can incorporate more overseers in your build. They don't want you to have contaminate at an earlier timing, and they don't want you to be able to over mass contaminate. So the logic is If P -> then Q where P is the cost decrease and Q is energy increase. Q would probably not exist without P. | ||
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HinagikUx
United States178 Posts
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polysciguy
United States488 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
In BW, Science Vessels had a very interesting dynamic with Defilers, as Irradiate was a 1-click, inevitable death for any poor Defiler targeted by that green cloud. Consequently, clouds of Science Vessels would roam the map actively sniping Defilers with Irradiate. I hope that dynamic transfers over to SC2, as HSM's ability to snipe units, especially valuable spellcasters, seems to be buffed in this recent patch. Perhaps well-controlled Ravens will be able to snipe poorly-controlled clumps of Infestors now, thus allowing the Raven to possibly join the Ghost in becoming a key Terran spellcaster in fighting Infestor+Broodlord. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On August 25 2011 13:03 Dommk wrote: Seeker missle is now faster than Roaches off creep. You are forgetting about banelings, seeker missile now moves almost 0.5movespeed faster than banes, you could easily land a missile and detonate a ton of banes It's extremely unlikely that you'd encounter slow roaches by the time you have access to Seeker Missle. You are also insulting many pro zergs by saying that they lack the micro to pull out the targeted baneling the same way they microed against irradiate in BW. This is pointless theorycraft. I wish we'd just go play PTR instead of doing this. | ||
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lolFreedom
Canada21 Posts
1 Fungal will not be able to kill a group of stimmed marines anymore making drops a lot more troublesome. ;-; There are other things that will be more troublesome, but that's all I could think of so far. | ||
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EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
On August 25 2011 13:02 sylverfyre wrote: They'll need +2 mech upgrade to twoshot SCVs or 45 hp marines (unupgraded or combatshield+stim) I think we'll see a little less pure mech in TVT, at least not auto-winning against marine tank styles. Does this take into affect the Shield regen and HP regen on Protoss and Zerg units? If a +1 hellion does 20hp damage to a +1 armour Drone, as soon as the first flame hits, the Drone regens 1hp. So it could still be a 3-hitter if they're both upgraded +1 | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes. Am I the only one disliking this change? No more 250 APM players? It's really hard to hit 250 SC2 APM average without tapping your buildings/units. So basically the left hand's speed is now completely ignored by the game? | ||
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
On August 25 2011 13:07 eviltomahawk wrote: Thinking more about the HSM change... In BW, Science Vessels had a very interesting dynamic with Defilers, as Irradiate was a 1-click, inevitable death for any poor Defiler targeted by that green cloud. Consequently, clouds of Science Vessels would roam the map actively sniping Defilers with Irradiate. I hope that dynamic transfers over to SC2, as HSM's ability to snipe units, especially valuable spellcasters, seems to be buffed in this recent patch. Perhaps well-controlled Ravens will be able to snipe poorly-controlled clumps of Infestors now, thus allowing the Raven to possibly join the Ghost in becoming a key Terran spellcaster in fighting Infestor+Broodlord. Ravens are too expensive gas wise, they'll never be standard tvz when the gas is better spent on tanks. Hsm still isn't good enough to compete | ||
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Virtue
United States318 Posts
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_Search_
Canada180 Posts
(Rank 1 Master Terran perspective) General Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1. Defender's advantage!! Very necessary. This will stop Toss from saccing a unit up a ramp to warp stuff in past static defense. PROTOSS Immortal Attack range increased from 5 to 6. I first suggested this exact change a year ago. I knew back then that immortals were simply not effective enough for their cost, even if I was in gold league. Mothership Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375. The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online. I hope this promotes more Mothership play. It's such an interesting unit. At the same time though, Protoss late game definitely did NOT need any help. Colossus nerf please. Stalker Blink research time increased from 110 to 140. This is great because blink really should be a late game ability and not conducive to a timing attack. Terran is far too vulnerable to blink Stalkers on maps like Tal'Darim, though this change will likely have greater effect in the other matchups. Warp Prism Shields increased from 40 to 100. Not a particular fan of this one, mainly because Warp Prisms are such a powerful unit already, especially for such a cheap cost (no gas?!?!). The only reason tosses don't use them is because they're afraid of losing them, which speaks more to the lack of maturity in toss play than imbalance because, considering what the unit does, it's DEFINITELY worth the money. TERRAN Barracks Build time increased from 60 to 65. lolwut? Is this to help with 2 rax? I don't know how much effect it will have on that, but Terran has the hardest time producing units in the early game, especially against toss, and this will make Terran far too vulnerable to early pressure. I once suggested this very change, but coupled it with a marine time decrease and Orbital Command time decrease (5 secs). Terran is simply far too vulnerable in the early game to anything that can get around a bunker. Basically what this is doing is making any Terran non-bio build auto-lose to early pressure. Can this nerf not be accompanied by a reactor core build time buff? The Terran macro game already suffers as it is, without double-punishing Terrans for trying to tech. Hellion Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5. Defense against hellions was already getting figured out. This nerf is totally unnecessary. Zergs have long learned to defend against them, Protosses have no fear of them and Terrans were learning to cope. 19 damage is still enough to 2-shot lings, just not workers until +2 mech weapons. Even worse, now zealots and marines are even MORE effective against hellions, when hellions should totally own both. This is the type of nerf that will remove the unit from the game, just like reapers, and Blizzard needs to be making Terran units less specialized and more cohesive, not the opposite. Either remove Pre-igniter altogether and give hellions a +3 damage buff (11 +6 v light) or raise the hellion rate of fire and add a pre-attack pause, like in the alpha, like Thors currently have. This will force hellions to stay stationary before they fire, which will make hellion raids less effective, but allow them to gel more easily into a greater army mix. Really Blizzard should be changing the Hellion to make it more effective in a general army and less effective in a raid. A straight-up nerf like this one will only remove it from the game, which is tragic, since the Hellion had essentially just entered the game. Raven Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. FINALLY!!!! No more vikings escaping Seeker Missile scot-free! Options in the imba Brood Lord/Corruptor/Infestor v. Viking/Marine wars! And, most importantly, AOE FOR TERRANS!! (besides tanks, which were hardly the equivalent of psi storm, colossi, carriers and fungal growth, if not also banelings (no one's ever perfected a "tank bust")) ZERG Infestor Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored). This won't effect PvZ too greatly, unless units recharge shields while under FG (if they do then it's a big nerf as Zealots and Stalkers will each require an extra FG), but this is a welcome nerf in the Brood Lord/Corruptor/Infestor v. Viking marine match. Marines with combat shields and adequate medivacs will mostly survive 2 fungals and Vikings will require 4 FGs instead of 3 to die. We all knew FG was too powerful. This nerf is well-deserved. Overseer Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50. Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125. Still trying to help Zergs against cloaked units. This buff is unnecessary. Spore Crawler buff was enough. Ultralisk Build time decreased from 70 to 55. Interesting, but I think Ultras were fine. It's not like Zerg was ever hampered by unit build times anyways. They can mass anything they have the money and larva for. I feel this is Blizzard's desire to bring an underused unit into the game, but build time is not the way to do it. They just need to let Ultra pathing be uninhibited by lings. | ||
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taldarimAltar
973 Posts
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
Nicely done bnet | ||
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ChuCky.Ca
Canada2497 Posts
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
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Oceaniax
146 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:58 JoeAWESOME wrote: "Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125" ??? :D Overall I can see most of the changes being somewhat understandable. Reducing the gas cost by 50% is a good change, but it would also make it ALOT easier to mass them up to deny production via contaminate. It's not a big deal now since the cost is so high, but I could definitely see late game Z strategies incorporating that in a big way if it was twice as easy to mass, hence the bump up in the energy cost. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Added three privacy settings to the Options menu under the Battle.net section. Only allow friends to send me invites. Only allow friends to send me chat messages. Set status to Busy when playing a game. These weren't in the OP as significant non-balance changes - what gives!? These are pretty important! | ||
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Chicken Chaser
United States533 Posts
You are also insulting many pro zergs by saying that they lack the micro to pull out the targeted baneling the same way they microed against irradiate in BW. This is pointless theorycraft. I wish we'd just go play PTR instead of doing this. Honest question here: How do you micro away the targeted unit when your units are all together? At least with irradiate you can spot out which unit is diseased. (Well, idk what you'd do with a muta ball.) NOTE: I did not follow BW much. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:49 Bloody wrote: If I could balance the game I would: Nerf hellions health with from 90 to 80. (They are so fast so it's hard to get hits on them) Increase infestors infested terran spell to 30. (so they cant spawn 8 infested terrans per infestor) Yeah, not bad. | ||
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