EPTOn September 10 2011 05:42 Treemonkeys wrote:
List some high level games that feature mass infestor then.
List some high level games that feature mass infestor then.
Coca vs Huk last mlg.
Just to name one.
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 347
| Forum Index > Closed |
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
|
Bashion
Cook Islands2612 Posts
Coca vs Huk last mlg. Just to name one. | ||
|
mFour
United States25 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:35 Moa wrote: Of course it shouldn't be but I feel that nerfing them is not the option with how unexplored HTs are in PvZ. That said I don't mind the fungal nerf, it was probably needed (not an infestor user myself) but neural is a big lynchpin in zerg play to deal with fast collo or mass thors. Mass infestor should not be a go-to strategy but having neural as a reactive option is absolutely necessary with how prominent heavy tier 3 strats are from the other races. Usable NP =! mass infestor I can't speak much for it, since I play Terran and it is definitely more of a ZvP change. I just don't understand why Blizzard hesitates to buff Hydras (or at least lower their cost). | ||
|
polysciguy
United States488 Posts
any destiny game | ||
|
Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:24 spicyredcurry wrote: KA + Warp in mechanic is pretty obnoxious but NP is no where near as obnoxious. The results werent heavily protoss favored back then because relevant protoss players didn't abuse the KA style. Look at SanZeniths games. The only reason he was relevant was because of KA. Also the stats were protoss favored during that time in PvT, even a 2% increase in win% is a large margin so i don't see how that matters. The reason that there is a huge disparity in ZvP is not because of NP, it is because of Fungal Growth not allowing anything to move while affect. I'm pretty sure any protoss would take a -1/2 damage on storm if it rooted. be on the receiving end of it and then tell me its not obnoxious.... | ||
|
Raid
United States398 Posts
On September 10 2011 04:30 hotwings wrote: What am I going to NP in a protoss deathball. zealots? Maybe the new shiny immortal that has 6 range and does 50 damage to a collosi? And evaporates stalkers... Less risky to NP a immortal since they will be closer to the front. Pretty sure toss players are gonna figure out that immortals are pretty frkn sick especially since they don't die to fungal + roaches easily. | ||
|
Eps
Canada240 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:38 Belial88 wrote: Show me a game where Zerg won against VR/Colossi or Stalker/colossi using Corruptors, and when the Zerg didn't take a fast third or Protoss didn't fall behind with their opening (like MC's stargate doing nothing to deny the third on XelNagaFortress). Infestors are an every-tool just like stalkers and marines. If you think infestors are too versatile, then nerf marines and stalkers. Stupid, right? And then there's ghosts and HT, which immediately kill infestors, where ghosts and HT can still attack/Archon. And dont tell me FG counters HT, because unless you ball them up + leave them out of position, they always kill. And FG/NP have to chained/channeled to work, so losing 10 infestors to 2 HT just to get one FG off on an army is riduclous. Not to mention HT are cheaper, come out faster, are faster to tech to, then infestors. Whoever said Protoss should play more reactionary than massing up some rigid build order for a timing attac, sounds great. Whoa now. HT come out faster and are easier to tech to than Infestors? With HT, you have to branch out to a new Tech path and are committed to it if you're on 2-Base. Infestors are on the way for Hive Tech. It's needed anyways if Z wants Hive Units. And Ghosts do not Kill Infestors. It takes 3 Snipes for most people, and they don't often have the luxury of standing there and Chain-Sniping. Infestors are a Support Caster. Their versatility in almost every situation is part of their problem. | ||
|
phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
| ||
|
solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:15 EdSlyB wrote: Actually in the last balance patch the Immortal received the 'Massive Unit' designation. The archon not the immortal. | ||
|
Crisium
United States1618 Posts
| ||
|
froGGifyre
United States213 Posts
| ||
|
solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:46 phodacbiet wrote: I am confused why are people crying about death ball? When can u ever neural a colossus? Blink/forcefield destroy any infestors that tries to get close and it is better (in my opinion) to get down fungals and infested terrans. I dont think this change will affect ZvP much (maybe it will who knows). What i do know is that Thors are gonna have fun with my base. Infestors nerf is gonna affect zvt more than zvp because marines takes longer to die and mech is fun. If it's already not good is it necessary to nerf it? I do completely disagree with this change. The only units worth neural parasiting are the massive units, like collosi and archons and thors. Then they buff neural parasite with units retaining all their upgrades, and then they decide to just take neural parasite out of the game? Let's face it, if this change goes through neural parasite is completely useless. | ||
|
Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On September 10 2011 04:45 Treble557 wrote: Wait, you mean you might have to use something other then stalker colossus to beat zerg?!?! WTFS MANG!! WTFS!! :> You just seem to be trolling the whole thread but this post is the worst.. I'm not saying that stalker and colossi should be the only thing that we will have to make and it isn't and won't be either. But what you're saying is that zerg should only have to make infestors to beat protoss. | ||
|
Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
This change will allow robo builds to resurface, and it's needed. Lets be honest and say colossus never went anywhere close to obscure, they are still used as much or more than infestors in ZvP. This is just going to bring it back to colossus every game crap. Infestors were never even a good counter to colossus, they only buy zerg time. What they do is allow zerg to trade cost effectively vs. a protoss army with a small number of colossus that is caught out of position. If toss continues to build colossus and zerg hasn't teched to brood lord, ultra, or corruptor, NP will not cut it anymore because whichever infestors use NP will instantly be sniped be the remaining colussi while good positioning of the toss army will prevent instant NP of all colossi. | ||
|
amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
| ||
|
Arisen
United States2382 Posts
| ||
|
atavus
France60 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:38 Belial88 wrote: Show me a game where Zerg won against VR/Colossi or Stalker/colossi using Corruptors, and when the Zerg didn't take a fast third or Protoss didn't fall behind with their opening (like MC's stargate doing nothing to deny the third on XelNagaFortress). Infestors are an every-tool just like stalkers and marines. If you think infestors are too versatile, then nerf marines and stalkers. Stupid, right? And then there's ghosts and HT, which immediately kill infestors, where ghosts and HT can still attack/Archon. And dont tell me FG counters HT, because unless you ball them up + leave them out of position, they always kill. And FG/NP have to chained/channeled to work, so losing 10 infestors to 2 HT just to get one FG off on an army is riduclous. Not to mention HT are cheaper, come out faster, are faster to tech to, then infestors. Whoever said Protoss should play more reactionary than massing up some rigid build order for a timing attac, sounds great. By the way in order for voidray to effectively kill corrupter before they kill the colossi, the toss must focus fire all the corrupter with the voidray. To sums up: you can already root all toss unit with fungal denying any micro, meaning you can focus fire the colossi without letting the voidray reogarnize themselve to crush the corrupter.& if the voidray do clan up during the focus fire they will be taken down by consecutive fungal. WoW that hard. HT cheaper than infestor well by 50 mineral how a tremendous amout of ressources, when zerg have the better economy of the game thw to overdronage. Come faster let's compare how fast u can have a lair + infestor pit & concil + templar archive. Strangely i feel like this swill be almost the same. | ||
|
Coutcha
Canada519 Posts
| ||
|
Treble557
United States221 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:49 Darneck wrote: You just seem to be trolling the whole thread but this post is the worst.. I'm not saying that stalker and colossi should be the only thing that we will have to make and it isn't and won't be either. But what you're saying is that zerg should only have to make infestors to beat protoss. Just like with terran and toss casters, infestors will wind up needed in any long end game unit mix regardless of centering your build around them or not. It's far from all we need to make to win tho, even now with the infestor in it's current state. The infestor, if anything, is simply a mid game tool that allows us to make it into the late game and continue to survive, also allowing us to finally explore our stupidly time consuming/expensive T3 options! Infestors pick up the slack where all other zerg units manage to drop the ball. In the words of Idra a few minutes ago (via his stream), "infestors may be OP, but they have to be since the rest of our units are garbage". When someone brought that little "they're nerfing fungal even more!" scare to him, he said they HAVE to be buffing hydras or something then to compensate, because it wouldn't make sense to just destroy the zerg as a whole once more. So yeah.. Infestors are needed as they are, because our other units are indeed crap. Mostly due to amazingly poor design choices by the devs back in late alpha, all the way through beta. | ||
|
dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:31 mFour wrote: I can't believe how many Zerg players believe that mass Infestor should be viable. I'm happy about the NP nerf and hope it goes through..BUT Blizz needs to buff Hydras to give Zerg more options. Not zerg, but it makes sense if you think about all the other units they have. None of them are viable. Infestors need to be, because there are really no other options. It all goes back to poor design of the race. | ||
|
Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:46 phodacbiet wrote: I am confused why are people crying about death ball? When can u ever neural a colossus? Blink/forcefield destroy any infestors that tries to get close and it is better (in my opinion) to get down fungals and infested terrans. I dont think this change will affect ZvP much (maybe it will who knows). What i do know is that Thors are gonna have fun with my base. Infestors nerf is gonna affect zvt more than zvp because marines takes longer to die and mech is fun. See, NP was never actually used outside of bronze because it's so easy to avoid it and kill the infestors. It totally was not a super powerful spell and is easily mitigated if you aren't a 1 control group a-mover. Regardless, it's still going to break the game for zerg and make PvZ totally unwinnable. /shrugface? | ||
| ||
