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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
What LOL, NP not being able to target massive units. I can't even fathom. Just take the spell out of the fucking game, in that case. Id rather have something deleted than be completely useless.
Also delete hydras while your at it.
User was warned for this post
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United States1114 Posts
On September 10 2011 04:24 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 03:55 dogabutila wrote:On September 10 2011 03:48 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 03:35 urashimakt wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. I don't see it as a question of whether or not the Infestor is an imbalanced unit so much as what is the point of Neural Parasite if it can't be used on units worth being used on. Anyone can comment on that, so why not a TL featured streamer? Because anyone can come up with a reason why something shouldn't be nerfed. Every terran could rightfully argue that blue flame hellions against workers can be solved by careful sim city - it'd be correct, but it wouldn't change the glaringly obvious fact that BF hellions are broken. Likewise, infestors can theoretically be handled by feedback, but in reality it just doesn't happen. Infestors are in a state where they're freaking ridiculous against pretty much everything but their intended counter units (that happen to be branched out specialist units) and even then, they're not being dominated by said units at all. If banelings did 45 damage, it would be still be possible for terran to trade cost effectively by splitting each marine individually, but banelings would still just be too good. Destiny just points out that there is a unit that can do alright against the infestor, which he thinks justifies the infestor being rather imbalanced against everything else. The funny thing is that everybody acts like NP is the reason infestors are so so OP but nobody ever complained about it before. It was just fungal, infested terran, chain fungals. People are so emotionally invested into hating infestors that they cheer for a nerf that breaks the game without examining why they really think infestors are OP and adjusting those issues. That's exactly the reason that zergs should not complain about infestors being useless after the patch. It's bad design yeah, because they could just remove the spell or buff another angle of it. But after that you say that the nerf is "breaking the game", so I don't know what to think anymore.
LOL nobody every complained about amulet before it got REMOVED from the game... careful what you wish for.
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On September 10 2011 04:20 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:19 Rorschach wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. quoted for truth... i really thought the days of zerg whine were behind us..... I guess they should nerf Cannon Rushes then.
because people are winning tournaments with them?
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Someone needs to make a troll comic about this change. It's too funny if it goes live.
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i assume that the infestor will gain a anti caster ability and also a ability to morph into a ass kicking massive unit in the near future.
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On September 10 2011 04:25 Cyanocyst wrote:
What LOL, NP not being able to target massive units. I can't even fathom. Just take the spell out of the fucking game, in that case. Id rather have something deleted than be completely useless.
Theres still plenty of things to NP, just NPing all of some guys Collosus or Mothership is a bit OP...
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On September 10 2011 04:26 boblzer0 wrote:
i assume that the infestor will gain a anti caster ability and also a ability to morph into a ass kicking massive unit in the near future.
they don't need an anti caster ability because currently they are anti everything protoss can make....
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On September 10 2011 04:27 Benjef wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:25 Cyanocyst wrote:
What LOL, NP not being able to target massive units. I can't even fathom. Just take the spell out of the fucking game, in that case. Id rather have something deleted than be completely useless. Theres still plenty of things to NP, just NPing all of some guys Collosus or Mothership is a bit OP...
What am I going to NP in a protoss deathball. zealots?
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United States1114 Posts
On September 10 2011 04:27 Benjef wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:25 Cyanocyst wrote:
What LOL, NP not being able to target massive units. I can't even fathom. Just take the spell out of the fucking game, in that case. Id rather have something deleted than be completely useless. Theres still plenty of things to NP, just NPing all of some guys Collosus or Mothership is a bit OP...
ZvT you can NP casters, ghosts are going to dominate so much of the TvZ metagame that people will start NPing them.
you can still NP tanks as well.
ZvP, you can neural void rays and you know units that at least cost as much as an infestor... not the ones that cost two or three times more... which is perfectly fine.
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On September 10 2011 04:27 Benjef wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:25 Cyanocyst wrote:
What LOL, NP not being able to target massive units. I can't even fathom. Just take the spell out of the fucking game, in that case. Id rather have something deleted than be completely useless. Theres still plenty of things to NP, just NPing all of some guys Collosus or Mothership is a bit OP...
yes because infestor isnt huge and hard 2 target down....
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I think blizzard made mistake, why don't just remove NP then? Protoss don't make immortals, they have colossus which is good against every single unit, and thats why we use Neural parasite on them.
Now zerg is back into the old, dark age of Z v P, Roach Corruptor, and even more, Immortal buff will make that play unviable, thanks blizzard! I always wanted zerg to fail against deathball and dies to every massive unit.
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On September 10 2011 04:30 Theeakoz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:27 Benjef wrote:On September 10 2011 04:25 Cyanocyst wrote:
What LOL, NP not being able to target massive units. I can't even fathom. Just take the spell out of the fucking game, in that case. Id rather have something deleted than be completely useless. Theres still plenty of things to NP, just NPing all of some guys Collosus or Mothership is a bit OP... ZvT you can NP casters, ghosts are going to dominate so much of the TvZ metagame that people will start NPing them. you can still NP tanks as well.
Because nural totally out ranges emp, snipe,and tanks
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On September 10 2011 04:26 Theeakoz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:24 MrCon wrote:On September 10 2011 03:55 dogabutila wrote:On September 10 2011 03:48 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 03:35 urashimakt wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. I don't see it as a question of whether or not the Infestor is an imbalanced unit so much as what is the point of Neural Parasite if it can't be used on units worth being used on. Anyone can comment on that, so why not a TL featured streamer? Because anyone can come up with a reason why something shouldn't be nerfed. Every terran could rightfully argue that blue flame hellions against workers can be solved by careful sim city - it'd be correct, but it wouldn't change the glaringly obvious fact that BF hellions are broken. Likewise, infestors can theoretically be handled by feedback, but in reality it just doesn't happen. Infestors are in a state where they're freaking ridiculous against pretty much everything but their intended counter units (that happen to be branched out specialist units) and even then, they're not being dominated by said units at all. If banelings did 45 damage, it would be still be possible for terran to trade cost effectively by splitting each marine individually, but banelings would still just be too good. Destiny just points out that there is a unit that can do alright against the infestor, which he thinks justifies the infestor being rather imbalanced against everything else. The funny thing is that everybody acts like NP is the reason infestors are so so OP but nobody ever complained about it before. It was just fungal, infested terran, chain fungals. People are so emotionally invested into hating infestors that they cheer for a nerf that breaks the game without examining why they really think infestors are OP and adjusting those issues. That's exactly the reason that zergs should not complain about infestors being useless after the patch. It's bad design yeah, because they could just remove the spell or buff another angle of it. But after that you say that the nerf is "breaking the game", so I don't know what to think anymore. LOL nobody every complained about amulet before it got REMOVED from the game... careful what you wish for.
EXPLAIN to me your thought process on how the removal of KA is anything remotely comparable to completely changing how the spell 'Neural parasite" functions. I'm genuinely curious how so many people seem to make this ignorant correlation.
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On September 10 2011 04:33 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:31 Primal666 wrote:On September 10 2011 04:27 Benjef wrote:On September 10 2011 04:25 Cyanocyst wrote:
What LOL, NP not being able to target massive units. I can't even fathom. Just take the spell out of the fucking game, in that case. Id rather have something deleted than be completely useless. Theres still plenty of things to NP, just NPing all of some guys Collosus or Mothership is a bit OP... yes because infestor isnt huge and hard 2 target down.... You'd be surprised...range 9(?) np hiding behind roaches is pretty hard to prevent without suicide blinking
Then reduce the range thenif you want, just dont make it useless.
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On September 10 2011 03:55 dogabutila wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 03:48 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 03:35 urashimakt wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. I don't see it as a question of whether or not the Infestor is an imbalanced unit so much as what is the point of Neural Parasite if it can't be used on units worth being used on. Anyone can comment on that, so why not a TL featured streamer? Because anyone can come up with a reason why something shouldn't be nerfed. Every terran could rightfully argue that blue flame hellions against workers can be solved by careful sim city - it'd be correct, but it wouldn't change the glaringly obvious fact that BF hellions are broken. Likewise, infestors can theoretically be handled by feedback, but in reality it just doesn't happen. Infestors are in a state where they're freaking ridiculous against pretty much everything but their intended counter units (that happen to be branched out specialist units) and even then, they're not being dominated by said units at all. If banelings did 45 damage, it would be still be possible for terran to trade cost effectively by splitting each marine individually, but banelings would still just be too good. Destiny just points out that there is a unit that can do alright against the infestor, which he thinks justifies the infestor being rather imbalanced against everything else. The funny thing is that everybody acts like NP is the reason infestors are so so OP but nobody ever complained about it before. It was just fungal, infested terran, chain fungals. People are so emotionally invested into hating infestors that they cheer for a nerf that breaks the game without examining why they really think infestors are OP and adjusting those issues.
That's not how things went, seriously.
Before Fungal Buff everyone was like : "Infestator are useless, fungal is useless & using NP on colossi is impossible because of the range of colossi being equal to NP range".
Then the fungal buff went live, zerg started to use Infestor a lot & to discover that :
- Infested marine is sick to harass, do crazy damage.
- That they can actually NP colossi & everything.
Add guy like destiny that have democratized full infe play & show that it was a viable strategie.
Well now what we have; zerg that have the best map control/the best eco/the best repop/ the one unit with full answer to everything.
No need to adapt, strangely zerg is supposed to be the adaptative, changing race that's not the case anymore.
NP nerf is necessary maybe not exactly like that but is indeed necessary.
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United States1114 Posts
On September 10 2011 04:32 Lomak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:26 Theeakoz wrote:On September 10 2011 04:24 MrCon wrote:On September 10 2011 03:55 dogabutila wrote:On September 10 2011 03:48 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 03:35 urashimakt wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. I don't see it as a question of whether or not the Infestor is an imbalanced unit so much as what is the point of Neural Parasite if it can't be used on units worth being used on. Anyone can comment on that, so why not a TL featured streamer? Because anyone can come up with a reason why something shouldn't be nerfed. Every terran could rightfully argue that blue flame hellions against workers can be solved by careful sim city - it'd be correct, but it wouldn't change the glaringly obvious fact that BF hellions are broken. Likewise, infestors can theoretically be handled by feedback, but in reality it just doesn't happen. Infestors are in a state where they're freaking ridiculous against pretty much everything but their intended counter units (that happen to be branched out specialist units) and even then, they're not being dominated by said units at all. If banelings did 45 damage, it would be still be possible for terran to trade cost effectively by splitting each marine individually, but banelings would still just be too good. Destiny just points out that there is a unit that can do alright against the infestor, which he thinks justifies the infestor being rather imbalanced against everything else. The funny thing is that everybody acts like NP is the reason infestors are so so OP but nobody ever complained about it before. It was just fungal, infested terran, chain fungals. People are so emotionally invested into hating infestors that they cheer for a nerf that breaks the game without examining why they really think infestors are OP and adjusting those issues. That's exactly the reason that zergs should not complain about infestors being useless after the patch. It's bad design yeah, because they could just remove the spell or buff another angle of it. But after that you say that the nerf is "breaking the game", so I don't know what to think anymore. LOL nobody every complained about amulet before it got REMOVED from the game... careful what you wish for. EXPLAIN to me your thought process on how the removal of KA is anything remotely comparable to completely changing how the spell 'Neural parasite" functions. I'm genuinely curious how so many people seem to make this ignorant correlation.
It's comparable in that it was a big deal, in both cases, the main casters of each race and getting weakened, the way that are getting nerfed is different because of the implication it might have on the other race (being terran). that's why they seem so different.
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Wait so what are we supposed to neural?
Immortals? Tanks?...Not so sure about this change at all. Hopefully it's like the fungal growth not hitting air units change and doesn't go live.
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On September 10 2011 04:33 Chocolate wrote:
because we all know motherships and collosi are in the front of the army.
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EPT
