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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
regarding the infestor changes
1) Fungal: i don't mind the damage it outputted before, or the fact it stops spellcasting, but the thing that's broken about it is the fact its a snare and not a slow
2) NP: i like some of the arguements that massive units cost alot, and 100 energy on 100/150 resources is very cost efficient, yes i acknowledge that NP is a research, colossus range is pretty much mandatory too. i don't know if there's a cost difference between the researches.
at the same time i honestly think NP could be fine the way it was IF fungal was a slow and not a snare.
meh i dont care though, destiny's mass-infestor build was getting a little out of hand.
i read someone post here
"I sure hope Blizzard won't cave in to the zerg whines this time, just because the Zerg community is by far the most vocal whiners  Blizzard is solving the mass infestor build. It's a support unit, intended for support, not as a "I have three spells, one kills all small units, one controls the bigger units and one kills buildings" unit."
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On September 09 2011 22:49 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote:
Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op?
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own?
And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus.
Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well.
You're point is completely useless. You're not thinking about this within the context of the game. Protoss almost always needs to go Colossi and then tech switch to High Templar once multiple bases are up. Zerg, on the other hand, can get Infestors right away. It isn't simply HT vs. Infestor, its Infestors being more effective vs. the Protoss army than HT's are vs. Zerg and the fact that Infestors are more accessible.
infestors are no where near close to being as good as HT against the base army of the opponant, i tested this out, while fungal takes just over half the shield of a stalker away, storm(if left inhindered) takes all but 1HP of a hydra, and alot of roachs aswell. They also have feedback for the infestors, what does infestors have to take HT's? 4 FG?
its so fucking stupid how this has been done, zerg struggled for a year with the deathball, and finally overcame it with the infestor usage, now blizzard nerf it after 2 months of solid complaing from protoss, despite no attempt to innovate, or get around the problem like zerg where left to do for a whole fucking year
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Thank god NP change was so needed not even funny, 2.5 tier units mindcontroling massive units like motherships lol
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On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote:
Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op?
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own?
And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus.
Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well.
Can't we need it vs Ghosts. Try and neural parasite an HT and feedback all the other HTs. The hotkey is F., Don't hit T though because it doesn't do much. This could be a cool micro battle situation might i add..
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SoCal8910 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:49 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote:
Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op?
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own?
And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus.
Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well.
You're point is completely useless. You're not thinking about this within the context of the game. Protoss almost always needs to go Colossi and then tech switch to High Templar once multiple bases are up. Zerg, on the other hand, can get Infestors right away. It isn't simply HT vs. Infestor, its Infestors being more effective vs. the Protoss army than HT's are vs. Zerg and the fact that Infestors are more accessible.
lolwut.
no offense, but he's right. why would you blindly build colossus vs infestor ling? lings go down to storms so hard, on top of getting eaten by archons and zealots. HTs' feedback makes infestors absolutely useless. literally. they can't even throw IT's.
if im building something and you scout it, why would you build a unit composition thats bad against what im building. that's just bad game-play.
EDIT: or are you not scouting :X
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I used neural on collosi so I can crush forcefeilds. I use neural on thor hellion armies. What am I supposed to do now ? Woe is me..
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NP is an obvious counter to Colossus. Making bunch of Corruptors has shown to give victories to the Protoss armies. You get to much supply tied up in a useless unit. Tech switches becomes to strong. The fact that they now nerfed it on the PTR makes me wonder where Blizzard wants to go with the Infestor.
If the Protoss player scouts Infestors, they should go down the templar route. I think its weird that they nerf a unit so that Protoss can go whatever tech path they want, whenever they want.
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On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote:
Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op?
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own?
And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus.
Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well.
The HT can only do damage to the Infestor while the Infestor hasn't spent its energy. Typically, it is impossible to click all the individual infestors before at least a couple of them cast Fungal/Neural. At that point, the damage is already done and no amount of HT is going to save you.
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On September 09 2011 22:56 immortlone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:49 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote:
Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op?
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own?
And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus.
Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well.
You're point is completely useless. You're not thinking about this within the context of the game. Protoss almost always needs to go Colossi and then tech switch to High Templar once multiple bases are up. Zerg, on the other hand, can get Infestors right away. It isn't simply HT vs. Infestor, its Infestors being more effective vs. the Protoss army than HT's are vs. Zerg and the fact that Infestors are more accessible. lolwut. no offense, but he's right. why would you blindly build colossus vs infestor ling? lings go down to storms so hard, on top of getting eaten by archons and zealots. HTs' feedback makes infestors absolutely useless. literally. they can't even throw IT's. if im building something and you scout it, why would you build a unit composition thats bad against what im building. that's just bad game-play.
By that logic we shouldn't build anything because the infestor is good against EVERYTHING we have. Seriously, how does that make any sense?
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On September 09 2011 22:54 WarrickHunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:49 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote:
Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op?
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own?
And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus.
Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well.
You're point is completely useless. You're not thinking about this within the context of the game. Protoss almost always needs to go Colossi and then tech switch to High Templar once multiple bases are up. Zerg, on the other hand, can get Infestors right away. It isn't simply HT vs. Infestor, its Infestors being more effective vs. the Protoss army than HT's are vs. Zerg and the fact that Infestors are more accessible. infestors are no where near close to being as good as HT against the base army of the opponant, i tested this out, while fungal takes just over half the shield of a stalker away, storm(if left inhindered) takes all but 1HP of a hydra, and alot of roachs aswell. They also have feedback for the infestors, what does infestors have to take HT's? 4 FG? its so fucking stupid how this has been done, zerg struggled for a year with the deathball, and finally overcame it with the infestor usage, now blizzard nerf it after 2 months of solid complaing from protoss, despite no attempt to innovate, or get around the problem like zerg where left to do for a whole fucking year
I'm a Terran player, but... really ? Did you just said that?...
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If the NP change goes through, I'm taking a break from StarCraft until they fix Zerg in general.
Blizzard doesn't know what the hell they want to do with that race and they are showing it more and more every patch.
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finally! NP was too much OP! It was lol to see motherships get NPed, however non practical that is. But seriously, it was too strong of a spell caster to begin with.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:59 R3demption wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:56 immortlone wrote:On September 09 2011 22:49 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote:
Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op?
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own?
And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus.
Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well.
You're point is completely useless. You're not thinking about this within the context of the game. Protoss almost always needs to go Colossi and then tech switch to High Templar once multiple bases are up. Zerg, on the other hand, can get Infestors right away. It isn't simply HT vs. Infestor, its Infestors being more effective vs. the Protoss army than HT's are vs. Zerg and the fact that Infestors are more accessible. lolwut. no offense, but he's right. why would you blindly build colossus vs infestor ling? lings go down to storms so hard, on top of getting eaten by archons and zealots. HTs' feedback makes infestors absolutely useless. literally. they can't even throw IT's. if im building something and you scout it, why would you build a unit composition thats bad against what im building. that's just bad game-play. By that logic we shouldn't build anything because the infestor is good against EVERYTHING we have. Seriously, how does that make any sense?
how on earth did you extract that from what i said?
its quite simple: scout my tech, build stuff that is better against what i'm doing.
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On September 09 2011 22:39 ZAiNs wrote:
I like the Neural change, and although a lot of people Zergs are unhappy with it, I think everyone in the world can agree that Neural at least should not work on Motherships.
I'm a Protoss player too, but still don't like this Neural change, because it's simply wrong.
I agree with you on one thing, Neural on Motherships is lame.
But then just give immune to ONLY Mothership, why give it to ALL massive units and make the spell completely useless?
Why hurt variety of game and make it less entertaining?
It seems the game is less interesting and more imblanced after multiple patches over last couple of months.
That makes me seriously think Blizz's balancers truly are bunch of idiots.
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On September 09 2011 22:59 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:54 WarrickHunt wrote:On September 09 2011 22:49 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote:
Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op?
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own?
And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus.
Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well.
You're point is completely useless. You're not thinking about this within the context of the game. Protoss almost always needs to go Colossi and then tech switch to High Templar once multiple bases are up. Zerg, on the other hand, can get Infestors right away. It isn't simply HT vs. Infestor, its Infestors being more effective vs. the Protoss army than HT's are vs. Zerg and the fact that Infestors are more accessible. infestors are no where near close to being as good as HT against the base army of the opponant, i tested this out, while fungal takes just over half the shield of a stalker away, storm(if left inhindered) takes all but 1HP of a hydra, and alot of roachs aswell. They also have feedback for the infestors, what does infestors have to take HT's? 4 FG? its so fucking stupid how this has been done, zerg struggled for a year with the deathball, and finally overcame it with the infestor usage, now blizzard nerf it after 2 months of solid complaing from protoss, despite no attempt to innovate, or get around the problem like zerg where left to do for a whole fucking year I'm a Terran player, but... really ? Did you just said that?...
True Story: Storm: you can move your units out of, its an AoE.
Fungal: Snare, DoT, Chainable (because its a snare), Stops Spellcasting
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i am a zerg player, and I am slightly upset about neural parasite no longer being able to target massive units. I really liked that I could push on a terran contain and NP the thors so that my mutas didn't immediately get romped. :/
NPing collosus was always fun as well. i don't really care about carriers/BCs/BLs/archons though
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i mean, zerg has no way to drain energy from spellcasters, so when another race has a spellcaster that is really strong there aren't as many options to counter that unit. however, terran has ghosts (AOE energy drain? cmon now that is a great counter to infestors) and protoss has high templar (feedback) which more often than not kill an infestor instantly on cast.
a slight damage reduction in fungal is OK, but taking away NP (on massive units) is too much, blizzard needs to just to the fungal change and then wait out the NP change.
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On September 09 2011 22:24 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 21:53 EmilA wrote:On September 09 2011 21:48 Terkill wrote:
And what is up with the teamliquid reactions to this patch? How many percent of the users on this site are bronze players not having a clue about balancement in terms of games? A very low percent of the users are bronze. In fact, you can't be too highly ranked either, as there are very, very few danes at the top of ladder and I know all of them. I sure hope Blizzard won't cave in to the zerg whines this time, just because the Zerg community is by far the most vocal whiners Blizzard is solving the mass infestor build. It's a support unit, intended for support, not as a "I have three spells, one kills all small units, one controls the bigger units and one kills buildings" unit. This.Thors got a nerf hammer in TvP because of the same reason (and unlike the Infestors, they weren't good against everything by their own). Also, almost everyone knows that zergs are the biggest hypocrites in the whole community, this is why I stopped giving a shit about their opinion on balance months ago.
What is this shit? Seriously? Go back to the bnet forums. No one is saying infestors shouldn't be nerfed. Most would agree that NP is not the spell that needs to be looked at. Seriously I've seen nothing but support from the Zerg community for Protoss balance complaints. Believe me, none of us want to HAVE to make infestors every damn game; but the rest of Zerg units just aren't good enough without them.
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Infestor: Great at infesting your opponents army, unless theres Thors, Colossi, Carrier, Motherships, Ultralisks, and Archons.
Seriously this really limits the Zerg against countering some of the big T3 units. Archons are so damaging late game if used properly the only way to really stop them is to fungal them. If this change is to balance out infestor use vs Colossi I think the change went in the completely wrong direction.
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On September 09 2011 23:03 soupchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:24 Huragius wrote:On September 09 2011 21:53 EmilA wrote:On September 09 2011 21:48 Terkill wrote:
And what is up with the teamliquid reactions to this patch? How many percent of the users on this site are bronze players not having a clue about balancement in terms of games? A very low percent of the users are bronze. In fact, you can't be too highly ranked either, as there are very, very few danes at the top of ladder and I know all of them. I sure hope Blizzard won't cave in to the zerg whines this time, just because the Zerg community is by far the most vocal whiners Blizzard is solving the mass infestor build. It's a support unit, intended for support, not as a "I have three spells, one kills all small units, one controls the bigger units and one kills buildings" unit. This.Thors got a nerf hammer in TvP because of the same reason (and unlike the Infestors, they weren't good against everything by their own). Also, almost everyone knows that zergs are the biggest hypocrites in the whole community, this is why I stopped giving a shit about their opinion on balance months ago. What is this shit? Seriously? Go back to the bnet forums. No one is saying infestors shouldn't be nerfed. Most would agree that NP is not the spell that needs to be looked at. Seriously I've seen nothing but support from the Zerg community for Protoss balance complaints. Believe me, none of us want to HAVE to make infestors every damn game; but the rest of Zerg units just aren't good enough without them.
i agree, leave NP ablity to target massive (minus mothership)
and change fungal from snare to slow.
done.
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NP was never necessary to beat collosi compositions (the DPS from FG was what truly fixed the matchup a few patches back).
I think the only thing that's gonna really be affected by this infestor neft is gonna be the Zealot/Archon composition. I feel without NP it will be too strong against all Zerg mid game compositions (pre-BL).
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EPT
