EPTPatch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 311
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Timestreamer
Israel157 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
But even if it does banneling drops combined with Fungal will deal with the deathball. I dunno why people are saying they can no longer deal with the deathball. So as far as this change goes it doesn´t work on: -Thors -Archons -Colossus -Broodlords? Meh what makes me sad is that the achievement now will be harder to get, so I better hope I hit a colossi heavy Protoss  | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Annyway dont understand why they changed it, neuro is completely useless now for most players Only thing remotely worth neuroing are spellcasters but they are small and difficult to target , way easier to get a fungal off with probably a better expected outcome maybe its still worth it in zvz, to neuro the other guys infestors | ||
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cekkmt
United States352 Posts
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freewareplayer
Germany403 Posts
If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own? And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus. Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well. | ||
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TheMooseHeed
United Kingdom535 Posts
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:41 immortlone wrote: and i, personally, rarely see it happen. its all a matter of perspective. i suppose the correct phrase is "it isn't as viable" Well..it's not really a matter of perspective because the post said that neuraling tanks straight up doesn't work. In this case anecdotal evidence is acceptable because I know it can work. I'm not sure how it's any less viable that NPing thors. Usually when there are thors present, there are also tanks. So you'd have to come into tank range to NP them anyway. What usually happens is lings/whatever run in front and take the first volley, since the infestors are out of range the fact that they take target priority makes no difference, and tank firing rate is so slow that by the time they have 'reloaded' so to speak the infestors are in NP range. Not that you'd do that against a tank line of like 12 tanks. That'd be silly. But I'd argue that in games where the zerg went infestors and researched neural, you are pretty likely to see tanks getting NPed. | ||
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elis
Sweden69 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:37 Reborn8u wrote: But saying "ZvP is unwinnable now" unless you get a "giant buff to corrupters" is exactly the thinking that stops zergs from innovating. I remember when fungal was going to loose it's ability to hit air units, and this is the same kind of crap we heard which stopped the change from happening. 1 unit shouldn't hard counter literally every other unit of a race except 1, It's absurd. you mean like how protoss has been doing the same shit for months now, and when it seems to not work as well as it used to zerg gets nerfed to shit again. remember how zergs dealt with deathballs before people started using infestors? oh right they didnt deal with it because it was too fucking strong. infestors are as important if not more important zvp for zerg as ghosts are tvp | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
C'mon Dayvie, think NP through. | ||
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WarrickHunt
United Kingdom393 Posts
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
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Zahki
Australia61 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:44 Jenia6109 wrote: Now Blizzard should make Neural Parasite while burrowed and it will be perfect You realise now there is nothing to actually use NP on right? Here's the counter to NP now "Don't make Immortals" thats it. Don't make immortals and there is literally nothing the Zerg can use NP on that won't be a waste of 125 energy. There is only one other unit in the game worth using NP on, Siege Tanks. Not exactly worth the 150/150 price of admission, I doubt anyone will bother researching it now. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote: Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op? If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own? And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus. Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well. You're point is completely useless. You're not thinking about this within the context of the game. Protoss almost always needs to go Colossi and then tech switch to High Templar once multiple bases are up. Zerg, on the other hand, can get Infestors right away. It isn't simply HT vs. Infestor, its Infestors being more effective vs. the Protoss army than HT's are vs. Zerg and the fact that Infestors are more accessible. | ||
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RedHelix
250 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:37 Reborn8u wrote: While I agree that it will be tough for zergs to deal with the death ball, you must realize it's not fair to have almost every unit hard countered by the infestor. Making it do this was their mistake, they are trying to fix it now. In a fight where 2 armies are worth about 5000 each, it's not exactly fair for a zerg to be able to take control of 5 units, that represent half of the opponents army value, and just roll them. Roach, corruptor, infestor will probably deal with the deathball if properly controlled, infestor ultra is very good against it also (double splash dmg, FF's don't work,ultras just got a huge buff, and if they made a bunch of colossus and not immortals they are in trouble), baneling drops smash the death ball also (see: Morrow) and I've also seen zergs doing roach hydra drops all over protoss's bases (once they are on 3) and stopping the death ball from ever occurring. It can be dealt with.... but having infestors counter every gateway/robo/air unit except HT's isn't balanced. Protoss's army costs many times more gas just to deal with roach balls, they simply can't afford the gas to match infestor production with HT's. When you also consider the higher cost to tech to HT's the long wait for them to charge energy, and the higher cost for all of protoss's other upgrades and tech. It should be obvious that this is a step in the right direction, zerg should not be able to just make roaches and infestors and deal with any composition. Which gives them a free ride into the late game. A lot of zergs don't even bother scouting after the 2 base point anymore. They don't need to, they just make infestors. Zergs REALLY need to start utilizing all of the other untapped potential they have. Drop play, nydus for harassing and expanding, ultras, contamination (imagine a protoss with 1 robo losing 2 minutes of production!) and tech switches. Their is so much we haven't seen yet in this match up, but going roach, hydra, corrupter for most of a year and calling imbalance was just lame on the part of some zerg players. Infestors got insane buffs, and then we saw a ton of just roach, infestor. It's zerg players like morrow that I really admire, he took a unit (baneling) every other zerg claimed was useless against protoss and owned with it. Players like spanishiwa owning with ultras, and destiny crushing with infested terrans. I really think there will be some serious innovation to come in this match up, as long as players start getting creative and using every tool at their disposal. But saying "ZvP is unwinnable now" unless you get a "giant buff to corrupters" is exactly the thinking that stops zergs from innovating. I remember when fungal was going to loose it's ability to hit air units, and this is the same kind of crap we heard which stopped the change from happening. 1 unit shouldn't hard counter literally every other unit of a race except 1, It's absurd. I also don't see why zergs complain about protoss so much, SINCE RELEASE, Terrans have had the best stats in SC2. TvZ stats are more Terran favored than PvZ is protoss favored, the PvZ matc hup has just been much more volatile. But this Death ball is unstoppable thinking is WAY outdated and flat out wrong. Really? Because this sounds exactly like a colossus. It's not fair to say "oh this race hasnt experimented with x things yet" well how do YOU know? maybe they have and it genuinely does not work? Look at spanishiwa for a while, he used nydus infestor harrass a LOT with INTENSE micro and all he was doing was gaining a little tiny bit of an advantage for all that APM, dont get me wrong, i think diversity is great, but something like nydus harrass is not a realible thing at all. There needs to be a way of stopping a colossus void ray army that doesnt involve losing to the second army because all you have are corruptors. By this logic all the protoss buffs should be revoked because obviously protoss weren't experimenting with those units like the warp prism and immortals. | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:10 aXa wrote: So what, are zerg supposed to NP marines now ? lolol I tried that the other day, wasn't so effective  Neural parasite yourself ! that way you can control your units in two different ways (what a bad joke, sorry guys, this kind of nerf makes me nervous) | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:46 freewareplayer wrote: Seriously 1 HT can onehit like 4 infestors, so how is the infestor op? If you refuse to build HTs vs Infestor thats your fault for not building a counter, so again how is a unit a problem that gets roflstomphardcountered by a unit of your own? And every protoss in here briefly neglects to comment on how hard hard HTs stomp infestor, and just keeps ranting about how hard NP counters colossus. Newsflash, NP doesnt counter colossus as hard as Feedback counters infestors, if NP gets nerfed, nerf Feedback as well. Honest question here: if you have so much trouble with HTs feedback why not keep your infestors burrowed, and keep a single overseer with your army to deny observers? People keep offering the same advice for using HTs versus ghosts, and burrow is way less tech then HT+robo+probably prism speed. Less micro intensive, too. | ||
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Hossinaut
United States453 Posts
All of the rest of the changes seem reasonable to me. The +5 seconds to rax build time is a little silly, but whatever | ||
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Drinc
Sweden98 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
now its like zerg mass ling and infestor try to neural the colossi and then just overrun the protoss without him having a chance to micro now it depends on overlord banedrops etc etc so i think it will be more balanced and more micro heavier z still have alot possibilities vs the protoss ball but now it need just more then 3 clicks and thats a good way still something to do in pvt | ||
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Andytaker
88 Posts
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