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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 09 2011 21:53 EmilA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 21:48 Terkill wrote:
And what is up with the teamliquid reactions to this patch? How many percent of the users on this site are bronze players not having a clue about balancement in terms of games? A very low percent of the users are bronze. In fact, you can't be too highly ranked either, as there are very, very few danes at the top of ladder and I know all of them. I sure hope Blizzard won't cave in to the zerg whines this time, just because the Zerg community is by far the most vocal whiners  Blizzard is solving the mass infestor build. It's a support unit, intended for support, not as a "I have three spells, one kills all small units, one controls the bigger units and one kills buildings" unit.
This.Thors got a nerf hammer in TvP because of the same reason (and unlike the Infestors, they weren't good against everything by their own).
Also, almost everyone knows that zergs are the biggest hypocrites in the whole community, this is why I stopped giving a shit about their opinion on balance months ago.
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On September 09 2011 22:24 Liudo wrote:
I always thought having mind control was an ability that could potentially get way out of hand and create nasty balance issues. I have been surprised that Blizzard would allow such a strong ability to exist in the first place, especially given the range of the ability, the duration, and the fact that anything can be mind controlled.
It's a problematic ability to balance so I think it is a good thing Blizzard addresses this issue of mind control.
If there is a problem that zerg is too weak without it, I would prefer to see zerg buffed in other ways rather than having one unit that has super strong abilities that are game changing at any and all stages and points of the game.
You know in BW the Dark Archon had a mind control ability that was permanent and didn't require the DA to walk around with the mind controlled unit.
It was awesome. And underused as far as I saw.
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I wonder how they came up with the 2.953 number for seeker missile.
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On September 09 2011 22:24 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:23 R3demption wrote:On September 09 2011 22:20 aXa wrote:
The true story here is that Zerg lack of option against colossi. The designed-counter for terran (viking) works fine, but the designed-counter for zerg (corruptor) is just useless.
Why in the hell would they 1: Nerf the only "okay-ish" answer zerg got (NP)
Why in the hell would they not 2: Buff corruptor Because corruptors (buffed) + infestors would destroy any kind of viking defense. Then broodlords would dominate TvZ as Terran would have no air control. Nowadays I personally use ghosts as my main anti BL unit and only make a couple vikings just to sweeten the deal.
LOL i stand corrected. Buffing the corruptor would lead to NO viking use, further exploitation of the ghost and then even moree of an outrage. Then Blizzard would be really screwed because nerfing the ghost would lead to Collsus/HT dominance once again and the endless cycle goes on and onnn...
Then Heart of the swarm comes out and we get perfect balance.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 09 2011 22:26 MadNeSs wrote:
I wonder how they came up with the 2.953 number for seeker missile.
Slightly faster than units with a speed of 2.95.
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Meh. If neural is only going to control non-massive units I don't see the harm in making it permanent. This way it's just going to never be used.
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On September 09 2011 22:24 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 21:53 EmilA wrote:On September 09 2011 21:48 Terkill wrote:
And what is up with the teamliquid reactions to this patch? How many percent of the users on this site are bronze players not having a clue about balancement in terms of games? A very low percent of the users are bronze. In fact, you can't be too highly ranked either, as there are very, very few danes at the top of ladder and I know all of them. I sure hope Blizzard won't cave in to the zerg whines this time, just because the Zerg community is by far the most vocal whiners Blizzard is solving the mass infestor build. It's a support unit, intended for support, not as a "I have three spells, one kills all small units, one controls the bigger units and one kills buildings" unit. This.Thors got a nerf hammer in TvP because of the same reason (and unlike the Infestors, they weren't good against anything by their own). Also, almost everyone knows that zergs are the biggest hypocrites in the whole community, this is why I stopped giving a shit about their opinion on balance months ago.
Man i am so happy you said this. I knew that i couldn't be alone in thinking these things!
Almost anything posted by a zerg on the internet about balance makes me want to rip my eyes out  (not necessarily because it might be wrong or right but because of the attitude that it is their "god" given right to be correct over any T/P opinions, and also for zerg to be 100% win rate or else....)
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On September 09 2011 22:26 MadNeSs wrote:
I wonder how they came up with the 2.953 number for seeker missile.
Ever punch in random calculations into a calculator? That number is the speed of a cheetah (75 mph) divided by 25.3979004 and that is how they got that number sir.
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On September 09 2011 22:27 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:26 MadNeSs wrote:
I wonder how they came up with the 2.953 number for seeker missile. Slightly faster than units with a speed of 2.95.
ah makes sense
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I have 2 issues with the change to neural.
First of all, if you cannot neural massive units anymore then what the hell are you supposed to neural? The only two units worth doing that are immortals and tanks now. Tanks doesnt work because of the range and immortals are barely used as it is. Now neural becomes a 100% useless ability and it still only lasts for 12 secs...
Second issue is dealing with collo. Sure taking over all the collo and roflstomping protoss ball was ridiculous but also like the only way to actually deal with them since corruptors are so useless. Plus now if you will have to mass corruptors against collosi again ultras will become less used because the zerg will need to invest in spire tech and it wont be worth going ultras over bro-lords anymore. I cant say anything for sure but if this change goes through it will be reaaally tricky at first for zerg
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On September 09 2011 22:24 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 21:53 EmilA wrote:On September 09 2011 21:48 Terkill wrote:
And what is up with the teamliquid reactions to this patch? How many percent of the users on this site are bronze players not having a clue about balancement in terms of games? A very low percent of the users are bronze. In fact, you can't be too highly ranked either, as there are very, very few danes at the top of ladder and I know all of them. I sure hope Blizzard won't cave in to the zerg whines this time, just because the Zerg community is by far the most vocal whiners Blizzard is solving the mass infestor build. It's a support unit, intended for support, not as a "I have three spells, one kills all small units, one controls the bigger units and one kills buildings" unit. This.Thors got a nerf hammer in TvP because of the same reason (and unlike the Infestors, they weren't good against anything by their own).
What? Thors are cost effect against pretty much any unit in the game which is used ( I add used, as they aren't that good against BC / Carriers ). Never been on the receiving end of a thor push with scvs it would seem. Their weakness is their speed, but that's a whole other discussion.
I think nerfing NP is really stupid, because it's a researched ability which is useful in very special circumstances ( for example against thor heavy compositions ). NP has always been very high risk / high reward. What they should do is remove the bonus damage to armored from fungal, if anything it should do less damage to armored. As it is now fungal is the problem, and the problem with fungal is that it's pretty much a good investment against any composition. I don't really see the logic behind messing with NP at all.
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On September 09 2011 22:28 Rampoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:24 Huragius wrote:On September 09 2011 21:53 EmilA wrote:On September 09 2011 21:48 Terkill wrote:
And what is up with the teamliquid reactions to this patch? How many percent of the users on this site are bronze players not having a clue about balancement in terms of games? A very low percent of the users are bronze. In fact, you can't be too highly ranked either, as there are very, very few danes at the top of ladder and I know all of them. I sure hope Blizzard won't cave in to the zerg whines this time, just because the Zerg community is by far the most vocal whiners Blizzard is solving the mass infestor build. It's a support unit, intended for support, not as a "I have three spells, one kills all small units, one controls the bigger units and one kills buildings" unit. This.Thors got a nerf hammer in TvP because of the same reason (and unlike the Infestors, they weren't good against anything by their own). Also, almost everyone knows that zergs are the biggest hypocrites in the whole community, this is why I stopped giving a shit about their opinion on balance months ago. Man i am so happy you said this. I knew that i couldn't be alone in thinking these things! Almost anything posted by a zerg on the internet about balance makes me want to rip my eyes out (not necessarily because it might be wrong or right but because of the attitude that it is their "god" given right to be correct over any T/P opinions, and also for zerg to be 100% win rate or else....)
You reall think you are any different?
Just stop this, it's the same thing that is addressed in the header of the thread. It doesn't lead to anything else but more flames.
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On September 09 2011 22:30 Genovi wrote:
I have 2 issues with the change to neural.
First of all, if you cannot neural massive units anymore then what the hell are you supposed to neural? The only two units worth doing that are immortals and tanks now. Tanks doesnt work because of the range and immortals are barely used as it is. Now neural becomes a 100% useless ability and it still only lasts for 12 secs...
Second issue is dealing with collo. Sure taking over all the collo and roflstomping protoss ball was ridiculous but also like the only way to actually deal with them since corruptors are so useless. Plus now if you will have to mass corruptors against collosi again ultras will become less used because the zerg will need to invest in spire tech and it wont be worth going ultras over bro-lords anymore. I cant say anything for sure but if this change goes through it will be reaaally tricky at first for zerg
Lets just wait and see this one out. We can speculate all you want but from what we know Infestors were seeing a MASSIVE use in this patch version, like idk wouldn't you rather have some other useful units? Infestors were good at way too many roles IMO. Imagine if you could only build 1 infestor every minute and that infestor is the KEY to survival and that unit then becomes useless because it gets my controlled. That is what it's like right now for P.
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On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
Mod edit: Infestors' neural parasite ability no longer works on massive units. Before you make an angry post talking about how stupid you think this change is, look around at all the already existing angry posts. Perhaps your particular angry post is unnecessary.
This is great news! Infestors were good against everything and that shouldn't be the case. If protoss has a lot of collosi, you can't just mass infestors to counter collosi and stalkers, you'll actually have to get a proper counter unit, corruptors!
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i'm really confused about neural not being usable on massive units... i mean, that leaves immortals as the only key target that i can think of off the top of my head
it's probably not going to be used at all anymore, but maybe that is their intention
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On September 09 2011 22:30 Genovi wrote:
I have 2 issues with the change to neural.
First of all, if you cannot neural massive units anymore then what the hell are you supposed to neural? The only two units worth doing that are immortals and tanks now. Tanks doesnt work because of the range and immortals are barely used as it is. Now neural becomes a 100% useless ability and it still only lasts for 12 secs...
Second issue is dealing with collo. Sure taking over all the collo and roflstomping protoss ball was ridiculous but also like the only way to actually deal with them since corruptors are so useless. Plus now if you will have to mass corruptors against collosi again ultras will become less used because the zerg will need to invest in spire tech and it wont be worth going ultras over bro-lords anymore. I cant say anything for sure but if this change goes through it will be reaaally tricky at first for zerg
I would like to query the bolded part. It kind of irritates me when people say that things simply cannot be done or don't work because on paper there is a problem with it; in this case that tanks outrange NP. And yet I see tanks getting neuraled all the time. Not only can it happen, it does.
Although I agree with the broad point that NP's usefulness is decreased to basically fuck all after this patch.
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On September 09 2011 22:18 SeriouR wrote:
Can anybody enlight me in the reasoning behind not beign able to neurla massive unitS? I'm a protoss player and i'm glad to hear it but i think neural's main aim is to take down the "big guys".
Because Blizz's balancers are bunch of morons.
Giving immune to massive units against neural is just wrong.
It will ruin so much of game concept, and fun.
As a protoss player, my only problem about neural is mothership.
Mothership is supposed to be hero unit, and its vulnerability against neural doesn't make any sense, and it's one of the reasons the unit is never used.
Perhaps giving immune to psionic units makes more sense, though perhaps some zerg players won't like it.
At least it doesn't hurt concept, and TvsZ balance, and it might mitigate current ZvsP balance.
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EPT
