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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 09 2011 14:08 desrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:06 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:06 ReignFayth wrote:On September 09 2011 14:04 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:01 Whitewing wrote:On September 09 2011 13:58 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 kheldorin wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:48 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:44 Nomad123 wrote:[quote] it's ok grimjim, i pointed out to him that he's wrong. feedback & fungal are same range.  i'll assume he'll conveniently be quiet now, and should start to learn how to use HT and feedback dood there's something wrong with you YES on paper they have the same range BUT the "AOE" of fungal hits further than feedback dont make me go in game and use paint WTF are u that dumb ? not as dumb as someone who equates forum posts with game understanding yes it's "AOE", so? you can't walk? your HT walk too slow? your HT so alone that opponent can walk the extra 2 range to fungal you? see my point now? it's same range, while you can argue that it adds 2 range cause its AOE, reality is, in battle HTs aren't alone, and infestors can't just walk up to HT straight up. learn to spread out your HT. all your arguments have been bullocks (broodlords, movement speed, etc.). fact is, if opponent got to fungal you, then you did something wrong cause you should be able to feedback him too. What are you talking about?? Infestors are not going to go forward to fungal HTs. They will be fungalling the main army and since the main army is usually faster than the HTs, they will be about 2 hexes infront. Which means in practice the infestors will be in range of the main army while the HTs will be out of range of the infestors. With 2 people of equal skill, infestors should never get feedbacked but Protoss players just have a lot more better micro than Zerg players. yup that's exactly my point. read it again (heck, read all the quotes, it's desrow that's pointing out the thing that you're pointing out against lol) Read what you just agreed with again. Here, I'll repost it for you: "With 2 people of equal skill, infestors should never get feedbacked but Protoss players just have a lot more better micro than Zerg players." Yeah. Play better and don't get hit by feedbacks. Fungal does actually outrange feedback by virtue of being an aoe. If you can't accept that, you're an idiot. Also, if the high templar are at the front of the army to feedback, you can fungal them. If they are in the back, you can cast your spells before feedback goes off. "but protoss players just have a lot more better micro than zerg players", then it won't be trouble for protoss players to feedback them. that's why i agree. and play better and don't get hit by fungals  why do you act all condescending, what league are you in? as condescending as "who the hell are you?" said by desrow? i can do better ReignFayth Joined TL.net Sunday, 25th of January 2004. kid learn your place -.-
nobody's asking reignfayth who he is. i was quoting you desrow, that you're the one that's condescending.
kid learn to read your post -.-
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If this gets through, i switch to Terran, Thor rushing every Zerg.
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Wow NP change. Though I guess this as indirect buff to carriers; every time I have seen high level toss experiment with air builds they get absolutely stomped by infestors (through fungal, NP and infested Terrans). Hopefully will see some more creativity late game from toss now.
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I think the Infestor nerf was needed but I do agree that Zerg will need some added strength somewhere else to make up for it. The infestor was too strong and made certain compositions and even units useless. If Zerg starts getting rolled and cannot come up with a solution then something will be done without making the Infestor back to pre-1.4 strength.
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On September 09 2011 14:08 Nomad123 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:07 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 14:06 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:05 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 14:04 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 14:03 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 13:59 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:55 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:53 NineteenSC2 wrote:
[quote]
I agree the other units (in comparison to the infestor) are not as good at all. In fact, no unit is when compared to the infestor. However, zerg already has a unit to deal (I'm only talking about zvp/pvz here) with collosi - the corrupter.
If anything, this is going to give zergs an easier transition into broodlords.
Corruptors are awful vs Colossi, have you ever actually tried using them? I'm not going back to that crap. I'd rather switch races then play every ZvP as a bloody tightrope walk hoping I have *exactly* the right number of Corrupors, not too many not too few, to actually not get roflstomped every game. ah well, you could always fungal and baneling carpet bomb. Ever hear of these funny little things called Blink Stalkers and Void Rays? Yeah. Fun stuff. Blink stalkers and uncharged void rays do have rather low DPS, if you notice in those battles, the overlords are always the last things left, it is very hard to kill them before they drop their cargo, which is why baneling bombing is so good. Don't knock it till you try it. You act like I haven't tried it before? I've tried it many, many times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it gets absolutely demolished by a player who knows how to micro. can't micro if you fungal can't fungal if you micro actually fungal is instant and can be used at 9 range with more radius than storm. If you miss with it it's your problem. actually feedback is instant and can be used at 9 range with obvious support from army. If you miss with it it's your problem.
stop trolling, it's obvious you can't miss with feedback, but fungals CAN prevent you from ever getting in range.
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Honestly NP was one of the more intelligent balance precautions Blizz designed. If there's any unit in the game that is "OP", zerg can just neural it and it becomes theirs, thereby discouraging the other race from massing that unit and abusing it. If zergs want to QQ about some unit being OP, they should just neural it and the OP unit is now theirs.
Blizz is absolutely retarded to get rid of that.
While I see how it will fix zerg dominance over toss, it will force zerg to always go roach hydra corruptor, which is a horribly stale and fragile way to play.
The real problem is what it will do to ZvT. Already terrans are having a blast doing all these cute one-base timings and pressure to exploit early game zerg, and now terrans will have yet ANOTHER all-in they can throw at zerg with fast repair thor. Zerg loses so much against a terran who pushes with 3 thors and all his SCVs, only to get back on his feet right when terran comes back with 3 more thors and another base worth of SCVs. Survive that? He comes back with 4 more thors and another 20 SCVs.
Zerg needs to tech to hive to win a game apparently. Terran doesn't even need workers.
Definitely losing respect for blizz.
They definitely need to fix the infestor being OP. So nerf NP range. Nerf fungal more. Increase IT cast energy. But holy cow is this going too far.
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On September 09 2011 14:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:03 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 14:00 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:59 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:55 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:53 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:36 NineteenSC2 wrote:
Lol, this is how toss felt when khaydarian amulet was removed. Anyway, the infestor was just too good of a unit. Good against sentries, void rays, carriers, mothership, zealots, stalkers, pheonixes, archons, collosi, dts, observers, and probes. Good for defending, as well as attacking, as well as harrassing. In a strategy game when there's a unit that's good at everything the correct phrase to drescribe it is: overpowered
p.s. left the high templar out cause that's debatable.
Don't worry guys, the ghost is next. Sure I can kinda agree with that, Infestors fill too many roles. What you're failing to realize is that the Hydralisk and Corruptor [and to a lesser extent the Ultralisk] are almost entirely useless units. I'm all for this nerf if Blizzard wants to go ahead and fix some of the glaring problems Zerg has, but in the mean time this is ridiculous. I agree the other units (in comparison to the infestor) are not as good at all. In fact, no unit is when compared to the infestor. However, zerg already has a unit to deal (I'm only talking about zvp/pvz here) with collosi - the corrupter. If anything, this is going to give zergs an easier transition into broodlords. Corruptors are awful vs Colossi, have you ever actually tried using them? I'm not going back to that crap. I'd rather switch races then play every ZvP as a bloody tightrope walk hoping I have *exactly* the right number of Corrupors, not too many not too few, to actually not get roflstomped every game. ah well, you could always fungal and baneling carpet bomb. Ever hear of these funny little things called Blink Stalkers and Void Rays? Yeah. Fun stuff. Can't blink when you're fungal'd and infestors > void rays. What league are you? (genuine question, not being rude... sorry if it comes out that way) I'm in Masters, and the people I play against never get every single Stalker caught in a fungal. It's easy for Protoss to split units around when Infestors are in range, pick off Infestors and Overlords like it's nothing. Blinking blindly into infestors is the stupidest thing you could do.
Stop making straw men. He never said anything about blinking into infestors. Ever heard of using blink to dodge fg? Or not blinking at all and just spreading ur units? ( notice how he never mentioned blink.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 09 2011 13:57 desrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:55 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:52 -_- wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:48 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:44 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:43 Grimjim wrote:On September 09 2011 13:37 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:33 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:29 desrow wrote:
[quote]
you can feedback 4times if your templar has 200 energy fungal has slightly better range just like emp has slightly longer range than feedback blaming toss users on feedback for the nerf is ridiculous oh one more fact our templar are retardly slow like baby steps and ur infestors actually have a decent movement speed both templars & infestors wait to regenerate energy. that part is fair. if you have 200 energy templars, then infestors will have high energy as well. now you remove broodlord from your argument. thank you. you obviously were too short sighted with your examples. templars are ridiculously slow for their own good. infestor movement speed was reduced also last patch, for their own good. this helps players not have their spellcasters die cause they move so fast and go in front of battle. reality is, if opponent can fungal you, you can feedback them as well. movement speed is not a factor in your argument. I don't know why I'm spending so much time arguing with someone with such a low post count but FUNGAL has LONGER range than FEEDBACK because the circle thingy GOES further THAN the range of feedback going to bed have fun cryin zergs Oh look, someone with no major tournament wins is acting superior to a forum poster. Why don't you win some tournaments before you talk down to those on this forum? You have to earn your superiority first. it's ok grimjim, i pointed out to him that he's wrong. feedback & fungal are same range. i'll assume he'll conveniently be quiet now, and should start to learn how to use HT and feedback dood there's something wrong with you YES on paper they have the same range BUT the "AOE" of fungal hits further than feedback dont make me go in game and use paint WTF are u that dumb ? not as dumb as someone who equates forum posts with game understanding yes it's "AOE", so? you can't walk? your HT walk too slow? your HT so alone that opponent can walk the extra 2 range to fungal you? see my point now? it's same range, while you can argue that it adds 2 range cause its AOE, reality is, in battle HTs aren't alone, and infestors can't just walk up to HT straight up. learn to spread out your HT. all your arguments have been bullocks (broodlords, movement speed, etc.). fact is, if opponent got to fungal you, then you did something wrong cause you should be able to feedback him too. You're obviously wrong, and you're just digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole. good job not pointing where "wrong" was in that post who ever saw HT so alone in battle? lol i guess desrow was too busy looking at opponent's "6-10" broodlords. i dunno. we'll have to ask him. the reason i mention your 34 posts is because your arguments have no legitimacy because...who the hell are you? you're probably a diamond league dood who's flipping tables about neural parasite and having an argument with me when all your doing is theorycrafting while i spend my day playing zergs like stephano sheth destiny machine idra (rarely) now I'm not saying im a big shot or i'm a top protoss but i have a way better experience of the situtiation than you will ever have. i know this is a cool thing to do to QQ and theory craft when ur stuck in diamond but comon man..
He actually doesn't play. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2277952/1/Nomad/
Apparently he used to be platinum if his old post is to be believed: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195219#15
Oh, and here's how he reacted to the kaydarin amulet nerf:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196393¤tpage=61#1206
So yeah, just ignore the troll.
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On September 09 2011 14:09 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:27 Plexa wrote:On September 09 2011 13:19 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Mech! Rollin' out!
NP is going to seem a little pointless now. The Terran part of me is happy...the Starcraft part of me is not really. But it is just PTR. We'll see how it goes! Can still NP the following units: - Tanks - Immortals - Templar - Ghosts (and I guess, ravens) - Void Rays All of which can be influential on a battle. Albeit, this is a significant nerf but there are still possibilities. Funny that they nerf the only infestor spell that really isn't good...
Wow, are you bronze or have you come back from a hiatus since beta? Have you been paying attention to modern ZvP in progames?
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On September 09 2011 14:09 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:06 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:06 ReignFayth wrote:On September 09 2011 14:04 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:01 Whitewing wrote:On September 09 2011 13:58 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 kheldorin wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:48 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:44 Nomad123 wrote:[quote] it's ok grimjim, i pointed out to him that he's wrong. feedback & fungal are same range. i'll assume he'll conveniently be quiet now, and should start to learn how to use HT and feedback dood there's something wrong with you YES on paper they have the same range BUT the "AOE" of fungal hits further than feedback dont make me go in game and use paint WTF are u that dumb ? not as dumb as someone who equates forum posts with game understanding yes it's "AOE", so? you can't walk? your HT walk too slow? your HT so alone that opponent can walk the extra 2 range to fungal you? see my point now? it's same range, while you can argue that it adds 2 range cause its AOE, reality is, in battle HTs aren't alone, and infestors can't just walk up to HT straight up. learn to spread out your HT. all your arguments have been bullocks (broodlords, movement speed, etc.). fact is, if opponent got to fungal you, then you did something wrong cause you should be able to feedback him too. What are you talking about?? Infestors are not going to go forward to fungal HTs. They will be fungalling the main army and since the main army is usually faster than the HTs, they will be about 2 hexes infront. Which means in practice the infestors will be in range of the main army while the HTs will be out of range of the infestors. With 2 people of equal skill, infestors should never get feedbacked but Protoss players just have a lot more better micro than Zerg players. yup that's exactly my point. read it again (heck, read all the quotes, it's desrow that's pointing out the thing that you're pointing out against lol) Read what you just agreed with again. Here, I'll repost it for you: "With 2 people of equal skill, infestors should never get feedbacked but Protoss players just have a lot more better micro than Zerg players." Yeah. Play better and don't get hit by feedbacks. Fungal does actually outrange feedback by virtue of being an aoe. If you can't accept that, you're an idiot. Also, if the high templar are at the front of the army to feedback, you can fungal them. If they are in the back, you can cast your spells before feedback goes off. "but protoss players just have a lot more better micro than zerg players", then it won't be trouble for protoss players to feedback them. that's why i agree. and play better and don't get hit by fungals why do you act all condescending, what league are you in? as condescending as "who the hell are you?" said by desrow? i can do better Anyway I just think you shouldn't get into an argument if you don't really know what you're talking about, cuz thus far you have only been embarassing yourself.... so my advice to you is to just drop it
why i'm touched that you care so much about me.
thanks for your advice. i'll gladly ignore it though if i may.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 09 2011 14:08 NineteenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:03 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 14:00 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:59 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:55 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:53 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:36 NineteenSC2 wrote:
Lol, this is how toss felt when khaydarian amulet was removed. Anyway, the infestor was just too good of a unit. Good against sentries, void rays, carriers, mothership, zealots, stalkers, pheonixes, archons, collosi, dts, observers, and probes. Good for defending, as well as attacking, as well as harrassing. In a strategy game when there's a unit that's good at everything the correct phrase to drescribe it is: overpowered
p.s. left the high templar out cause that's debatable.
Don't worry guys, the ghost is next. Sure I can kinda agree with that, Infestors fill too many roles. What you're failing to realize is that the Hydralisk and Corruptor [and to a lesser extent the Ultralisk] are almost entirely useless units. I'm all for this nerf if Blizzard wants to go ahead and fix some of the glaring problems Zerg has, but in the mean time this is ridiculous. I agree the other units (in comparison to the infestor) are not as good at all. In fact, no unit is when compared to the infestor. However, zerg already has a unit to deal (I'm only talking about zvp/pvz here) with collosi - the corrupter. If anything, this is going to give zergs an easier transition into broodlords. Corruptors are awful vs Colossi, have you ever actually tried using them? I'm not going back to that crap. I'd rather switch races then play every ZvP as a bloody tightrope walk hoping I have *exactly* the right number of Corrupors, not too many not too few, to actually not get roflstomped every game. ah well, you could always fungal and baneling carpet bomb. Ever hear of these funny little things called Blink Stalkers and Void Rays? Yeah. Fun stuff. Can't blink when you're fungal'd and infestors > void rays. What league are you? (genuine question, not being rude... sorry if it comes out that way) I'm in Masters, and the people I play against never get every single Stalker caught in a fungal. It's easy for Protoss to split units around when Infestors are in range, pick off Infestors and Overlords like it's nothing. Also it takes an insane amount of fungals to actually kill a Void Ray, idk if you've ever tried it but in a real battle it's not an effective use of energy at all. No matter what your opponent does you'll fungal his collosi and the majority of his stalkers. I don't see the problem. If he decides to blink back he can say good bye to his collosi.
No you're missing the point. Protoss just use Blink to split their stalkers to minimize the Fungal damage and try picking off Infestors and/or Broodlords. Void Rays just kill everything. Sure you can go in Fungaling stuff but Colossus outrange Fungal and will just annihilate everything. Without Neural it's like "oh you are casting Fungal? Ok ZAAAAAAP" Colossus roast them.
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On September 09 2011 14:09 Spectorials wrote:
A serious question:
What unit WOULD you neural after this change? Can only think of HT or Ghost?
Might as well remove the ability :S?
Siege tanks, voidrays and immortals. They're the next biggest ones to come to mind.
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On September 09 2011 14:00 Havefa1th wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:51 tuho12345 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:46 aquanda wrote:On September 09 2011 13:36 NineteenSC2 wrote:
Lol, this is how toss felt when khaydarian amulet was removed. Anyway, the infestor was just too good of a unit. Good against sentries, void rays, carriers, mothership, zealots, stalkers, pheonixes, archons, collosi, dts, observers, and probes. Good for defending, as well as attacking, as well as harrassing. In a strategy game when there's a unit that's good at everything the correct phrase to drescribe it is: overpowered
p.s. left the high templar out cause that's debatable.
Don't worry guys, the ghost is next. I would agree completely if we had other units that could handle the role the infestor has been filling. Corruptors and Hydras (our only other AA) are terrible units with a high cost. If a buff to either of those doesn't happen I don't see Zerg doing well in the future. Hydras destroy protoss gateway units in early game(not count HTs cuz we've all seen hydras/lings/creep highway strat already) and Corruptors rape colossus and carriers and mothership. So what else do you expect? You haven't count mutas yet cuz those things are the best units out there. Without roach support, Hydras, at around 14-15 stalkers, lose to less resource counts of pure stalkers. And let's not talk about Zealots. Corruptors don't have the range advantage that vikings do, are less versatile than vikings and take extra damage from Stalkers... corruptors die very easy and are very expensive. And are you serious about the mutas? Good lord. Mutas only work if they're a surprise. Otherwise you don't have the gas to support both mutas and supporting units, and pure ling doesn't work.
corrupters have 2 armour, a ton of hp, and are needed anyways for broodlord tech... don't think blizzard could have made it anymore easy
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On September 09 2011 14:09 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:08 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:07 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 14:06 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:05 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 14:04 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 14:03 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 13:59 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:55 BeeNu wrote:
[quote]
Corruptors are awful vs Colossi, have you ever actually tried using them? I'm not going back to that crap. I'd rather switch races then play every ZvP as a bloody tightrope walk hoping I have *exactly* the right number of Corrupors, not too many not too few, to actually not get roflstomped every game. ah well, you could always fungal and baneling carpet bomb. Ever hear of these funny little things called Blink Stalkers and Void Rays? Yeah. Fun stuff. Blink stalkers and uncharged void rays do have rather low DPS, if you notice in those battles, the overlords are always the last things left, it is very hard to kill them before they drop their cargo, which is why baneling bombing is so good. Don't knock it till you try it. You act like I haven't tried it before? I've tried it many, many times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it gets absolutely demolished by a player who knows how to micro. can't micro if you fungal can't fungal if you micro actually fungal is instant and can be used at 9 range with more radius than storm. If you miss with it it's your problem. actually feedback is instant and can be used at 9 range with obvious support from army. If you miss with it it's your problem. stop trolling, it's obvious you can't miss with feedback, but fungals CAN prevent you from ever getting in range.
stop trolling, it's obvious you can't miss with fungal, but feedback CAN prevent infestors from ever casting fungal.
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On September 09 2011 14:10 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:08 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:03 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 14:00 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:59 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:55 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:53 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:36 NineteenSC2 wrote:
Lol, this is how toss felt when khaydarian amulet was removed. Anyway, the infestor was just too good of a unit. Good against sentries, void rays, carriers, mothership, zealots, stalkers, pheonixes, archons, collosi, dts, observers, and probes. Good for defending, as well as attacking, as well as harrassing. In a strategy game when there's a unit that's good at everything the correct phrase to drescribe it is: overpowered
p.s. left the high templar out cause that's debatable.
Don't worry guys, the ghost is next. Sure I can kinda agree with that, Infestors fill too many roles. What you're failing to realize is that the Hydralisk and Corruptor [and to a lesser extent the Ultralisk] are almost entirely useless units. I'm all for this nerf if Blizzard wants to go ahead and fix some of the glaring problems Zerg has, but in the mean time this is ridiculous. I agree the other units (in comparison to the infestor) are not as good at all. In fact, no unit is when compared to the infestor. However, zerg already has a unit to deal (I'm only talking about zvp/pvz here) with collosi - the corrupter. If anything, this is going to give zergs an easier transition into broodlords. Corruptors are awful vs Colossi, have you ever actually tried using them? I'm not going back to that crap. I'd rather switch races then play every ZvP as a bloody tightrope walk hoping I have *exactly* the right number of Corrupors, not too many not too few, to actually not get roflstomped every game. ah well, you could always fungal and baneling carpet bomb. Ever hear of these funny little things called Blink Stalkers and Void Rays? Yeah. Fun stuff. Can't blink when you're fungal'd and infestors > void rays. What league are you? (genuine question, not being rude... sorry if it comes out that way) I'm in Masters, and the people I play against never get every single Stalker caught in a fungal. It's easy for Protoss to split units around when Infestors are in range, pick off Infestors and Overlords like it's nothing. Also it takes an insane amount of fungals to actually kill a Void Ray, idk if you've ever tried it but in a real battle it's not an effective use of energy at all. No matter what your opponent does you'll fungal his collosi and the majority of his stalkers. I don't see the problem. If he decides to blink back he can say good bye to his collosi. No you're missing the point. Protoss just use Blink to split their stalkers to minimize the Fungal damage and try picking off Infestors and/or Broodlords. Void Rays just kill everything. Sure you can go in Fungaling stuff but Colossus outrange Fungal and will just annihilate everything. Without Neural it's like "oh you are casting Fungal? Ok ZAAAAAAP" Colossus roast them.
Ehh maybe I am missing the point but in all the games I play, the infestors pull their weight just by fungals.
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On September 09 2011 14:04 Nomad123 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:01 Whitewing wrote:On September 09 2011 13:58 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 kheldorin wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:48 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:44 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:43 Grimjim wrote:On September 09 2011 13:37 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:33 Nomad123 wrote:
[quote]
both templars & infestors wait to regenerate energy. that part is fair. if you have 200 energy templars, then infestors will have high energy as well.
now you remove broodlord from your argument. thank you. you obviously were too short sighted with your examples.
templars are ridiculously slow for their own good. infestor movement speed was reduced also last patch, for their own good. this helps players not have their spellcasters die cause they move so fast and go in front of battle.
reality is, if opponent can fungal you, you can feedback them as well. movement speed is not a factor in your argument.
I don't know why I'm spending so much time arguing with someone with such a low post count but FUNGAL has LONGER range than FEEDBACK because the circle thingy GOES further THAN the range of feedback going to bed have fun cryin zergs Oh look, someone with no major tournament wins is acting superior to a forum poster. Why don't you win some tournaments before you talk down to those on this forum? You have to earn your superiority first. it's ok grimjim, i pointed out to him that he's wrong. feedback & fungal are same range. i'll assume he'll conveniently be quiet now, and should start to learn how to use HT and feedback dood there's something wrong with you YES on paper they have the same range BUT the "AOE" of fungal hits further than feedback dont make me go in game and use paint WTF are u that dumb ? not as dumb as someone who equates forum posts with game understanding yes it's "AOE", so? you can't walk? your HT walk too slow? your HT so alone that opponent can walk the extra 2 range to fungal you? see my point now? it's same range, while you can argue that it adds 2 range cause its AOE, reality is, in battle HTs aren't alone, and infestors can't just walk up to HT straight up. learn to spread out your HT. all your arguments have been bullocks (broodlords, movement speed, etc.). fact is, if opponent got to fungal you, then you did something wrong cause you should be able to feedback him too. What are you talking about?? Infestors are not going to go forward to fungal HTs. They will be fungalling the main army and since the main army is usually faster than the HTs, they will be about 2 hexes infront. Which means in practice the infestors will be in range of the main army while the HTs will be out of range of the infestors. With 2 people of equal skill, infestors should never get feedbacked but Protoss players just have a lot more better micro than Zerg players. yup that's exactly my point. read it again (heck, read all the quotes, it's desrow that's pointing out the thing that you're pointing out against lol) Read what you just agreed with again. Here, I'll repost it for you: "With 2 people of equal skill, infestors should never get feedbacked but Protoss players just have a lot more better micro than Zerg players." Yeah. Play better and don't get hit by feedbacks. Fungal does actually outrange feedback by virtue of being an aoe. If you can't accept that, you're an idiot. Also, if the high templar are at the front of the army to feedback, you can fungal them. If they are in the back, you can cast your spells before feedback goes off. "but protoss players just have a lot more better micro than zerg players", then it won't be trouble for protoss players to feedback them. that's why i agree. and play better and don't get hit by fungals
"and play better and don't get hit by fungals "
ROFL, do you actually play this game?
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On September 09 2011 13:57 desrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:55 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:52 -_- wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:48 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:44 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:43 Grimjim wrote:On September 09 2011 13:37 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:33 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:29 desrow wrote:
[quote]
you can feedback 4times if your templar has 200 energy fungal has slightly better range just like emp has slightly longer range than feedback blaming toss users on feedback for the nerf is ridiculous oh one more fact our templar are retardly slow like baby steps and ur infestors actually have a decent movement speed both templars & infestors wait to regenerate energy. that part is fair. if you have 200 energy templars, then infestors will have high energy as well. now you remove broodlord from your argument. thank you. you obviously were too short sighted with your examples. templars are ridiculously slow for their own good. infestor movement speed was reduced also last patch, for their own good. this helps players not have their spellcasters die cause they move so fast and go in front of battle. reality is, if opponent can fungal you, you can feedback them as well. movement speed is not a factor in your argument. I don't know why I'm spending so much time arguing with someone with such a low post count but FUNGAL has LONGER range than FEEDBACK because the circle thingy GOES further THAN the range of feedback going to bed have fun cryin zergs Oh look, someone with no major tournament wins is acting superior to a forum poster. Why don't you win some tournaments before you talk down to those on this forum? You have to earn your superiority first. it's ok grimjim, i pointed out to him that he's wrong. feedback & fungal are same range. i'll assume he'll conveniently be quiet now, and should start to learn how to use HT and feedback dood there's something wrong with you YES on paper they have the same range BUT the "AOE" of fungal hits further than feedback dont make me go in game and use paint WTF are u that dumb ? not as dumb as someone who equates forum posts with game understanding yes it's "AOE", so? you can't walk? your HT walk too slow? your HT so alone that opponent can walk the extra 2 range to fungal you? see my point now? it's same range, while you can argue that it adds 2 range cause its AOE, reality is, in battle HTs aren't alone, and infestors can't just walk up to HT straight up. learn to spread out your HT. all your arguments have been bullocks (broodlords, movement speed, etc.). fact is, if opponent got to fungal you, then you did something wrong cause you should be able to feedback him too. You're obviously wrong, and you're just digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole. good job not pointing where "wrong" was in that post who ever saw HT so alone in battle? lol i guess desrow was too busy looking at opponent's "6-10" broodlords. i dunno. we'll have to ask him. the reason i mention your 34 posts is because your arguments have no legitimacy because...who the hell are you? you're probably a diamond league dood who's flipping tables about neural parasite and having an argument with me when all your doing is theorycrafting while i spend my day playing zergs like stephano sheth destiny machine idra (rarely) now I'm not saying im a big shot or i'm a top protoss but i have a way better experience of the situtiation than you will ever have. i know this is a cool thing to do to QQ and theory craft when ur stuck in diamond but comon man..
Or you could just ignore people and have a mature adult discussion about balance like most of us. Personal attacks are pointless.
On topic though, it is a bit silly that zerg has come to pretty much 100% depend infestors to stay in the game in every match up. I feel like infestors are a somewhat boring unit overall and I would hope that with this nerf (if it goes through) comes something decent at least in HoTS to make zerg more interesting. At least things like defilers had interesting synergy with other units, infestor broodlord just feels clunky and neural was just kind of a band-aid to a bigger issue.
Edit: Can't we all just get along and talk about balance without saying stupid blanket statements like "Well my race has better players!"
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On September 09 2011 14:10 Sajaki wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:09 Spectorials wrote:
A serious question:
What unit WOULD you neural after this change? Can only think of HT or Ghost?
Might as well remove the ability :S? Siege tanks, voidrays and immortals. They're the next biggest ones to come to mind.
But you don't build Infestors for 2 out of 3 of those...
Also Voidrays its more energy efficient to use fungal and infested terran.
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On September 09 2011 14:12 NineteenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:10 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 14:08 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:03 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 14:00 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:59 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:55 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:53 NineteenSC2 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:51 BeeNu wrote:
[quote]
Sure I can kinda agree with that, Infestors fill too many roles.
What you're failing to realize is that the Hydralisk and Corruptor [and to a lesser extent the Ultralisk] are almost entirely useless units.
I'm all for this nerf if Blizzard wants to go ahead and fix some of the glaring problems Zerg has, but in the mean time this is ridiculous. I agree the other units (in comparison to the infestor) are not as good at all. In fact, no unit is when compared to the infestor. However, zerg already has a unit to deal (I'm only talking about zvp/pvz here) with collosi - the corrupter. If anything, this is going to give zergs an easier transition into broodlords. Corruptors are awful vs Colossi, have you ever actually tried using them? I'm not going back to that crap. I'd rather switch races then play every ZvP as a bloody tightrope walk hoping I have *exactly* the right number of Corrupors, not too many not too few, to actually not get roflstomped every game. ah well, you could always fungal and baneling carpet bomb. Ever hear of these funny little things called Blink Stalkers and Void Rays? Yeah. Fun stuff. Can't blink when you're fungal'd and infestors > void rays. What league are you? (genuine question, not being rude... sorry if it comes out that way) I'm in Masters, and the people I play against never get every single Stalker caught in a fungal. It's easy for Protoss to split units around when Infestors are in range, pick off Infestors and Overlords like it's nothing. Also it takes an insane amount of fungals to actually kill a Void Ray, idk if you've ever tried it but in a real battle it's not an effective use of energy at all. No matter what your opponent does you'll fungal his collosi and the majority of his stalkers. I don't see the problem. If he decides to blink back he can say good bye to his collosi. No you're missing the point. Protoss just use Blink to split their stalkers to minimize the Fungal damage and try picking off Infestors and/or Broodlords. Void Rays just kill everything. Sure you can go in Fungaling stuff but Colossus outrange Fungal and will just annihilate everything. Without Neural it's like "oh you are casting Fungal? Ok ZAAAAAAP" Colossus roast them. Ehh maybe I am missing the point but in all the games I play, the infestors pull their weight just by fungals.
Well in the games I play in any sort of serious engagement if I have infestors and have forgotten to research Neural Parasite I'm like "oh...ok...gg"
Whatever. If this ridiculous change actually makes it to patch I'm switching races.
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On September 09 2011 14:11 Nomad123 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:09 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 14:08 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:07 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 14:06 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 14:05 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 14:04 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 14:03 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 13:59 BeeNu wrote:On September 09 2011 13:56 NineteenSC2 wrote:
[quote]
ah well, you could always fungal and baneling carpet bomb. Ever hear of these funny little things called Blink Stalkers and Void Rays? Yeah. Fun stuff. Blink stalkers and uncharged void rays do have rather low DPS, if you notice in those battles, the overlords are always the last things left, it is very hard to kill them before they drop their cargo, which is why baneling bombing is so good. Don't knock it till you try it. You act like I haven't tried it before? I've tried it many, many times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it gets absolutely demolished by a player who knows how to micro. can't micro if you fungal can't fungal if you micro actually fungal is instant and can be used at 9 range with more radius than storm. If you miss with it it's your problem. actually feedback is instant and can be used at 9 range with obvious support from army. If you miss with it it's your problem. stop trolling, it's obvious you can't miss with feedback, but fungals CAN prevent you from ever getting in range. stop trolling, it's obvious you can't miss with fungal, but feedback CAN prevent infestors from ever casting fungal.
Hey this is about neural parasite, fungal has already been buffed and nerfed. I already made my point about neural, so if you want to continue talking about fungal, go ahead, but I'm not gonna follow along.
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EPT
