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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 258

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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
Haplo_33
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden383 Posts
September 09 2011 03:59 GMT
#5141
What are worthwhile targets to NP now that massive is not allowed? Immortals? Is that it?
Ensuring the security and efficacy of America's Cherry Coke supply system.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
September 09 2011 04:00 GMT
#5142
Cant NP thors either now ><

That's gonna make ZvT a bitch
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Treble557
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
September 09 2011 04:00 GMT
#5143
On September 09 2011 12:59 Haplo_33 wrote:
What are worthwhile targets to NP now that massive is not allowed? Immortals? Is that it?


Immortals, Tanks, and Void Rays are just about it.
Deltablazy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada580 Posts
September 09 2011 04:00 GMT
#5144
On September 09 2011 12:58 pallad wrote:
LOL WHAT ? Now terran mech will own zerg.. NP no longer on thor's ? lol its a joke..
Then what zerg must now build vs thors + tanks ? hydras ? , or def totier 3 and make BL or ultras , its stupid

I don't know about you but zergs have been always going BL against my mech. And NPing the tanks instead of the thors.
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
September 09 2011 04:00 GMT
#5145
Lol... why would you keep NP as a spell in the game if it doesn't work on massive? Why would anyone NP a stalker?
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10673 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 04:01:40
September 09 2011 04:00 GMT
#5146
On September 09 2011 12:59 Haplo_33 wrote:
What are worthwhile targets to NP now that massive is not allowed? Immortals? Is that it?


Bassically your best bet is to Neural Parasite a Probe , build a nexus, and then eventually build an army of colossi yourself.

EDIT :
That's gonna make ZvT a bitch
As if it isn't already.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
DensitY
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand74 Posts
September 09 2011 04:00 GMT
#5147
On September 09 2011 12:54 StoLiVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 12:51 DensitY wrote:
On September 09 2011 12:48 Empirimancer wrote:
On September 09 2011 12:47 Legend` wrote:
About time for the neural change. Now PvZ might actually be possible lol


... it actually became impossible, for Zerg.



?!?

As a Protoss player, if this change goes ahead.. all I have to worry about is how to deal with early game zerg (runaway economy that zergs can get right now) and not worry about that and how the hell I'm going to deal with infesters. Both issues together has given us a pvz match-up where the protoss is fighting an uphill battle the entire game, and it sucks.


If I understand what you are saying, if you are able to deal with the early game you win? Because you don't have to worry about anything anymore ?


no, not quite what I'm saying. Of course I'll have to worry, but what I'm saying is that I won't be in this "I lose unless he screws up, regardless of how well I play" that it feels like right now.
Snickersnee
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States241 Posts
September 09 2011 04:01 GMT
#5148
On September 09 2011 12:59 desrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 12:57 On_Slaught wrote:
I'm in the camp that leans towards the infestor being able to do too much, BUT I think not being able to NP massive units is a step too far. For starters, almost no units are worth NPing other than massive units. On top of that, it takes away a legitimate strat for stopping certain powerful armies and forces zerg to rely, once again, on BLs to do anything late game..


immortals and voids is still a pretty big deal, same for tanks

tanks have a range of 10 in siege. trying to get close to them is a death trap.
I agree immortals and voids are still good but the protoss will simply not bring them into the army comp so they can't do anything.
Had an idea that combines the intimate moment of delivering babies with Crazy Taxi last night. Can emotional arcade style gaming work?
Lomak
Profile Joined June 2010
United States311 Posts
September 09 2011 04:01 GMT
#5149
This is such a joke. Why is it a problem when infestors are one of the only 'good' units zerg has?! Sometimes I see one get almost half as many kills as every siege tank / collosus that has ever been made.
Some see the glass half full, others half empty. I think the glass is just too big.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 04:02:28
September 09 2011 04:01 GMT
#5150
On September 09 2011 12:58 Treble557 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 12:56 Whitewing wrote:
On September 09 2011 12:51 Belial88 wrote:
I swear to god, if Blizzard makes it so you can't NP massive units, I will switch to Terran. I just fucking hit #1 Master with Zerg too.

Because of this change, I will also be only playing on the PTR.

NP is the only counter Zerg has to archons until broodlords, which is impossible to get even against 3 base timing pushes. Mass roach is okay, but has it's own problems against immortals and doesn't cut it against archons forever.

And Zerg has no counter to fucking colossi, it was hard enough trying to make NP work. Corruptors just don't kill Colossi fast enough, they are weaker, just as slow, lower range, and more expensive than Vikings, yet Zerg ground units die much faster than marauders. Baneling rain is lol against stalkers or air play.

And then BC's and Carriers (as rare as they show up) are ridiculously hard to deal with without NP. And motherships are a huge pain too without NP.

I don't think NP is that great against mech, you're better off with mass muta (especially if siege tank count is high, which any decent mech will do, and mass roach is better against mass thor), since BL is a better investment in gas than infestors, but it's still obnoxious.

And in ZvZ is was necessary to NP broodlords, as an option to making Corruptors, instead of games being a stupid fucking mass spine wall to broodlord/roach on 3 base.

I'm not even kidding. I will switch to terran if this change goes through.


Roaches and hydras both do very well vs. archons. You can neural the immortals. Zerg does have a counter to colossi: spam fungal the army while keeping your army at range and make brood lords. Broods do pretty damn well vs. units that don't shoot up like colossi last time I checked. Carriers get roflstomped by hydras (and you can fungal the interceptors, lawl). Mothership might be a decent point, but at the same time, with neural on the mothership, the ship does nothing at all in the matchup in protoss's favor. Making one was basically giving the zerg a vortex on your own army. Oh, and baneling drops are fantastic on stalker balls, very cost effective if you can get the baneling to hit more than 3 stalkers, and remember, you're ahead on resources anyway so you don't even need to be cost effective.



Is this a joke post? None of that is true.


You're saying you can't spam fungal the army while staying away from the protoss units that literally can't move? Are you saying you can't neural parasite immortals? Oh, are you saying colossi are good against brood lords? Oh, perhaps you think baneling drops aren't cost effective on stalker balls, but the math proves you wrong, search it. Oh, maybe you meant that zerg isn't ahead on resources normally? Your post is possibly the most idiotic thing that occurs on this forum: not reading and just denying everything flat out.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Resistentialism
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada688 Posts
September 09 2011 04:01 GMT
#5151
Immortal, tank, void ray, viking maybe, HT, Ghost (if you can see them), raven

so not so much
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
September 09 2011 04:02 GMT
#5152
what? a 2 food unit cant neural parasite a 6 food, much more expensive unit? Totally imba, right?
So glad ^_^ Keeping colossus alive nowadays is hard enough but having them stolen (and unable to blink and kill the infestors due to fungal root) was too good against our tech.
Inno pls...
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
September 09 2011 04:02 GMT
#5153
When I read this I immediatly thought this change is linked to the corruptor (HotS change, or a futur patch).

Make my idea happen Blizzard, corruption should decrease the rate of fire 50%

I've always thought neural parasite was terrible, and I never relied on it so it won't affect me that much if it really happens.

But I wonder if the change will go through because the whole spell is utterly pointless, other than for maybe vikings I have no idea why I would even research it.

Why put this in the PTR if they aren't really going to change it though?



Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
September 09 2011 04:03 GMT
#5154
it seems like the PTR isn't up yet.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 09 2011 04:03 GMT
#5155
On September 09 2011 13:00 GGzerG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 12:59 Haplo_33 wrote:
What are worthwhile targets to NP now that massive is not allowed? Immortals? Is that it?


Bassically your best bet is to Neural Parasite a Probe , build a nexus, and then eventually build an army of colossi yourself.

Something similar to this happened in a WC3 pro-game before, lol. So anything is possible, really ...
eugalp
Profile Joined August 2011
United States203 Posts
September 09 2011 04:03 GMT
#5156
As a toss player, I think this might be a bit too drastic. I'd rather Blizz buff HT a bit (movement speed and/or feedback range) and nerf infested terrans slightly (tone down their dps or reduce spawn range).
"More GG more skill" - White-Ra
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 04:06:13
September 09 2011 04:04 GMT
#5157
On September 09 2011 12:52 azka wrote:
Neural not being able to target Massive units equals to remove NP from the game. You won't use it on a stalker or a zelot.


Immortal, Void Ray, High Templar, Siege Tank, Sentry, Ghost, Raven, Probe..?

I feel it might be a little strong of a change, but it might give Protoss a chance against Zerg. Seems a little unelegant though.

edit: Viking is also a good one, you see that a lot
I am the Town Medic.
Ravar
Profile Joined June 2011
United States447 Posts
September 09 2011 04:04 GMT
#5158
I think the NP change is too much, nerfs infestors and indirectly buffs colossus, archons, and thors


On September 09 2011 12:59 Haplo_33 wrote:
What are worthwhile targets to NP now that massive is not allowed? Immortals? Is that it?


Vikings

Yeah bitch, magnets
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 04:04:44
September 09 2011 04:04 GMT
#5159
i think this change would be good only if NP was reduced to 50 energy cost and had no research cost
zJayy962
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1363 Posts
September 09 2011 04:04 GMT
#5160
On September 09 2011 12:59 Whitewing wrote:
Look: infestors countered everything. Everything. Now they don't beat the entire protoss army by themselves.


Doesn't change the fact on how you made a post filled with bullshit.
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