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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 257

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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
Stress
Profile Joined February 2011
United States980 Posts
September 09 2011 03:53 GMT
#5121
As a Protoss player I don't really agree with the Neural Parasite change. I don't believe Neural is what currently makes the Infestor strong and therefore isn't what should be changed. Blizzard should buff the HT by equalizing the ranges of the spells so feedback has a chance before any spells go off and also give a speed buff to the HT so they aren't lagging behind your main army quite as much.
"Touch my gosu hands." - Tastosis | | fOrGG // MC // Jaedong
FryktSkyene
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1327 Posts
September 09 2011 03:53 GMT
#5122
LOL zerg just got fucked hardcore. (keeping in mind it's only the ptr)

Sadly for us protoss you can still neural our immortals which we will make more of because of the buff to them, but you cant get our colssi or archons. Thank god.

^_^
Snitches get stiches
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
September 09 2011 03:54 GMT
#5123
"And then BC's and Carriers (as rare as they show up) are ridiculously hard to deal with without NP. And motherships are a huge pain too without NP."

THIS! They nerfed them so that carriers and motherships could actually be used in the game!
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
Toads
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1795 Posts
September 09 2011 03:54 GMT
#5124
On September 09 2011 12:51 DensitY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 12:48 Empirimancer wrote:
On September 09 2011 12:47 Legend` wrote:
About time for the neural change. Now PvZ might actually be possible lol


... it actually became impossible, for Zerg.



?!?

As a Protoss player, if this change goes ahead.. all I have to worry about is how to deal with early game zerg (runaway economy that zergs can get right now) and not worry about that and how the hell I'm going to deal with infesters. Both issues together has given us a pvz match-up where the protoss is fighting an uphill battle the entire game, and it sucks.


If I understand what you are saying, if you are able to deal with the early game you win? Because you don't have to worry about anything anymore ?
(。◕ ω ◕。) Beer Time !!!! (。◕ ω ◕。)
Angelbelow
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3728 Posts
September 09 2011 03:55 GMT
#5125
my god... thats f-ing horrible... hopefully the change doesnt go through. i mean an increase of energy or increase the upgrade the time or perhaps something else..
You may delay, but time will not. Current Music obsession: Opeth
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
September 09 2011 03:55 GMT
#5126
See it from the bright side, they are nerfing everything that gets obviously abused / is too strong the last couple patches.

If the Colossus becomes to hardcore now, maybe they are going to nerf it as well.
And on top of it they are going to nerf Ghosts and Marines as well.

And every major problem i have right now would vanish
wat
MrDudeMan
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada973 Posts
September 09 2011 03:56 GMT
#5127
Kind of silly to take away massive units from NP. It basically serves no purpose anymore, unless you are up against mass stalker immortal play. Does the mothership count as a massive unit? Because if so, it might be extremely good in late game PvZ now.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
September 09 2011 03:56 GMT
#5128
On September 09 2011 12:51 Belial88 wrote:
I swear to god, if Blizzard makes it so you can't NP massive units, I will switch to Terran. I just fucking hit #1 Master with Zerg too.

Because of this change, I will also be only playing on the PTR.

NP is the only counter Zerg has to archons until broodlords, which is impossible to get even against 3 base timing pushes. Mass roach is okay, but has it's own problems against immortals and doesn't cut it against archons forever.

And Zerg has no counter to fucking colossi, it was hard enough trying to make NP work. Corruptors just don't kill Colossi fast enough, they are weaker, just as slow, lower range, and more expensive than Vikings, yet Zerg ground units die much faster than marauders. Baneling rain is lol against stalkers or air play.

And then BC's and Carriers (as rare as they show up) are ridiculously hard to deal with without NP. And motherships are a huge pain too without NP.

I don't think NP is that great against mech, you're better off with mass muta (especially if siege tank count is high, which any decent mech will do, and mass roach is better against mass thor), since BL is a better investment in gas than infestors, but it's still obnoxious.

And in ZvZ is was necessary to NP broodlords, as an option to making Corruptors, instead of games being a stupid fucking mass spine wall to broodlord/roach on 3 base.

I'm not even kidding. I will switch to terran if this change goes through.


Roaches and hydras both do very well vs. archons. You can neural the immortals. Zerg does have a counter to colossi: spam fungal the army while keeping your army at range and make brood lords. Broods do pretty damn well vs. units that don't shoot up like colossi last time I checked. Carriers get roflstomped by hydras (and you can fungal the interceptors, lawl). Mothership might be a decent point, but at the same time, with neural on the mothership, the ship does nothing at all in the matchup in protoss's favor. Making one was basically giving the zerg a vortex on your own army. Oh, and baneling drops are fantastic on stalker balls, very cost effective if you can get the baneling to hit more than 3 stalkers, and remember, you're ahead on resources anyway so you don't even need to be cost effective.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
September 09 2011 03:57 GMT
#5129
On September 09 2011 12:55 Elefanto wrote:
See it from the bright side, they are nerfing everything that gets obviously abused / is too strong the last couple patches.

If the Colossus becomes to hardcore now, maybe they are going to nerf it as well.
And on top of it they are going to nerf Ghosts and Marines as well.

And every major problem i have right now would vanish

We can only hope!
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
FryktSkyene
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1327 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 03:57:34
September 09 2011 03:57 GMT
#5130
Allow NP to affect massive units.

Make all casters the same speed (with infestors being slightly slower because they get speed from creep or don't allow then a speed bonus from creep and keep all the 'big' casters an equal speed.

Make fungal not root units but slow them down say maybe 75%? Keep it so you can't blink or seige while fungaled.

Nerf fungal dmg output ever so slightly.

Fixed the game. Your all welcome.


Edit: Toss player.
Snitches get stiches
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
September 09 2011 03:57 GMT
#5131
I'm in the camp that leans towards the infestor being able to do too much, BUT I think not being able to NP massive units is a step too far. For starters, almost no units are worth NPing other than massive units. On top of that, it takes away a legitimate strat for stopping certain powerful armies and forces zerg to rely, once again, on BLs to do anything late game..
ReseT
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States273 Posts
September 09 2011 03:57 GMT
#5132
Does anyone know when the patch will be working?
vVv Gaming
norterrible
Profile Joined October 2009
United States618 Posts
September 09 2011 03:58 GMT
#5133
On September 09 2011 12:44 Beardedclam wrote:
What the hell are infestors going to parasite now? They should have made FUNGAL not root massive, not fuck with parasite.


I was just thinkin this. NP doesn't really seem overpowered to me.
kekeke
Toads
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1795 Posts
September 09 2011 03:58 GMT
#5134
On September 09 2011 12:55 Elefanto wrote:
See it from the bright side, they are nerfing everything that gets obviously abused / is too strong the last couple patches.

If the Colossus becomes to hardcore now, maybe they are going to nerf it as well.
And on top of it they are going to nerf Ghosts and Marines as well.

And every major problem i have right now would vanish

The problem is if they nerf every thing what getting good. the game will be so boring some day. This is the op side of broodwar what make it nice and entertaining. I mean don't get me wrong, BW was perfectly balance but each race had something really good who make the opness balance.
(。◕ ω ◕。) Beer Time !!!! (。◕ ω ◕。)
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
September 09 2011 03:58 GMT
#5135
Having neural parasite on massive was really freaking dumb, archons > zealots collosus > everything now zergs have to kite with fungal/flank with corruptor now it actually takes skills to have a late game battle =)
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
pallad
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland1958 Posts
September 09 2011 03:58 GMT
#5136
LOL WHAT ? Now terran mech will own zerg.. NP no longer on thor's ? lol its a joke..
Then what zerg must now build vs thors + tanks ? hydras ? , or def totier 3 and make BL or ultras , its stupid
SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD
Treble557
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
September 09 2011 03:58 GMT
#5137
On September 09 2011 12:56 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 12:51 Belial88 wrote:
I swear to god, if Blizzard makes it so you can't NP massive units, I will switch to Terran. I just fucking hit #1 Master with Zerg too.

Because of this change, I will also be only playing on the PTR.

NP is the only counter Zerg has to archons until broodlords, which is impossible to get even against 3 base timing pushes. Mass roach is okay, but has it's own problems against immortals and doesn't cut it against archons forever.

And Zerg has no counter to fucking colossi, it was hard enough trying to make NP work. Corruptors just don't kill Colossi fast enough, they are weaker, just as slow, lower range, and more expensive than Vikings, yet Zerg ground units die much faster than marauders. Baneling rain is lol against stalkers or air play.

And then BC's and Carriers (as rare as they show up) are ridiculously hard to deal with without NP. And motherships are a huge pain too without NP.

I don't think NP is that great against mech, you're better off with mass muta (especially if siege tank count is high, which any decent mech will do, and mass roach is better against mass thor), since BL is a better investment in gas than infestors, but it's still obnoxious.

And in ZvZ is was necessary to NP broodlords, as an option to making Corruptors, instead of games being a stupid fucking mass spine wall to broodlord/roach on 3 base.

I'm not even kidding. I will switch to terran if this change goes through.


Roaches and hydras both do very well vs. archons. You can neural the immortals. Zerg does have a counter to colossi: spam fungal the army while keeping your army at range and make brood lords. Broods do pretty damn well vs. units that don't shoot up like colossi last time I checked. Carriers get roflstomped by hydras (and you can fungal the interceptors, lawl). Mothership might be a decent point, but at the same time, with neural on the mothership, the ship does nothing at all in the matchup in protoss's favor. Making one was basically giving the zerg a vortex on your own army. Oh, and baneling drops are fantastic on stalker balls, very cost effective if you can get the baneling to hit more than 3 stalkers, and remember, you're ahead on resources anyway so you don't even need to be cost effective.



Is this a joke post? None of that is true.
Seiber
Profile Joined June 2011
Singapore35 Posts
September 09 2011 03:59 GMT
#5138
The NP nerf is baffling. it costs such a huge amount of energy + research and you can't use it on massive (basically t3) units? Might as well remove it from the game geez.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
September 09 2011 03:59 GMT
#5139
Look: infestors countered everything. Everything. Now they don't beat the entire protoss army by themselves.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
September 09 2011 03:59 GMT
#5140
On September 09 2011 12:57 On_Slaught wrote:
I'm in the camp that leans towards the infestor being able to do too much, BUT I think not being able to NP massive units is a step too far. For starters, almost no units are worth NPing other than massive units. On top of that, it takes away a legitimate strat for stopping certain powerful armies and forces zerg to rely, once again, on BLs to do anything late game..


immortals and voids is still a pretty big deal, same for tanks
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
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