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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:05 rysecake wrote: Why do zergs think it is their right to drone up 80 workers on 3 bases uncontested before making any units? wtf is this Because zerg is balanced with the expectation that they can gain a macro advantage... Terran still has great harass options, anyway. | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:10 3clipse wrote: Because zerg is balanced with the expectation that they can gain a macro advantage... Terran still has great harass options, anyway. A macro advantage yes. But an auto win through unlimited expoing and droning is not something i condone haha. | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:11 rysecake wrote: A macro advantage yes. But an auto win through unlimited expoing and droning is not something i condone haha. Why does terran think it's their right to be able to just nuke 20+ workers without needing any real risk to do it at any point in the game beyond the 8 minute mark, and completely nullify every T1 mineral dump unit by having a T1.5 mineral dump unit along side their T1 mineral unit that just MELTS them all without any real risk? Look at protoss and how they slow/stop droning, and how zerg does it in zvz. Everything has a risk to the reward. You have to make it a serious decision in the early game on if you wanna do it or not. But instead of being fair about it, terrans get to just throw money away like it's nothing and not have to fear any repercussions in the process. User was warned for this post | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:21 Treble557 wrote: Why does terran think it's their right to be able to just nuke 20+ workers without needing any real risk to do it at any point in the game beyond the 8 minute mark, and completely nullify every T1 mineral dump unit by having a T1.5 mineral dump unit along side their T1 mineral unit that just MELTS them all without any real risk? Look at protoss and how they slow/stop droning, and how zerg does it in zvz. Everything has a risk to the reward. You have to make it a serious decision in the early game on if you wanna do it or not. But instead of being fair about it, terrans get to just throw money away like it's nothing and not have to fear any repercussions in the process. I don't use bfh that much tbh. I was directing towards the 2 rax complaints. I early marine pressure often while expoing and get a lot of flak for it. If you're talking about the bfh play then sorry we're not on the same page. | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
I've learned to adapt to other forms of terran pressure, and feel that it's all pretty well balanced at the end of the day... with the exception of hellions. | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
Might work better than line/clump your workers to make hellion roast them even faster. | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:06 Mehukannu wrote: Has anyone of you people who have gotten their BQQ tried to select all your workers -> hit S -> hold F1 key -> spam click split your workers all over the screen? Might work better than line/clump your workers to make hellion roast them even faster. I split them the old fashion way. Comes from tons of marine vs baneling practice. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:10 3clipse wrote: Because zerg is balanced with the expectation that they can gain a macro advantage... Terran still has great harass options, anyway. No they aren't. The NR20 that you talk about = landslide victory for Zerg, not a 'balanced game'. | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:08 rysecake wrote: I split them the old fashion way. Comes from tons of marine vs baneling practice. Haha, sounds like the baller way to split workers. :D But I would say using the F1 method to split workers will allow to split them faster. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 03 2011 01:49 Qikz wrote: Making hellions cost gas would be horrible. Hellions are the only way to dump minerals if you're going full mech. Maybe make them cost 125 minerals or something. How is it horrible if Terrans where like zerg and protoss and had to spead gas on anything but their most basic unit? Or maybe you would be ok with Roaches and Stalkers only costing minerals? | ||
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:06 Mehukannu wrote: Has anyone of you people who have gotten their BQQ tried to select all your workers -> hit S -> hold F1 key -> spam click split your workers all over the screen? Might work better than line/clump your workers to make hellion roast them even faster. Your workers are going to be behind your Nexus/CC/Hatch when they are mining. The mineral line is always facing away from the ramp, or at the very least, the Nexus is going to be between your workers and the rest of your base. This is ignoring any other buildings you might have placed close to your minerals. What this means is that, whatever method of splitting you use, your workers are going to have to form a conga line to funnel between your Nexus/CC/Hatch and the farthest mineral patch in order to escape out in the open. This is the big "kill zone" where Hellions can score a lot of kills. Whatever method of splitting you use only starts mattering once your probes escape the minerals/Nexus choke, or if you, for some reason, have all your probes idling in the middle of your base. | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:18 RavenLoud wrote: Isn't the Mothership's speed the same as a Brood Lord? 1.40 something? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Mothership It seemed like the mothership was going WAY faster than a broodlord. May have just been a trick of my mind. Or, it could be that liquipedia is false and they recorded the speed of the mothership without letting it get up to speed. | ||
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stormchaser
Canada1009 Posts
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ExorArgus
Canada46 Posts
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:27 DarQraven wrote: Your workers are going to be behind your Nexus/CC/Hatch when they are mining. The mineral line is always facing away from the ramp, or at the very least, the Nexus is going to be between your workers and the rest of your base. This is ignoring any other buildings you might have placed close to your minerals. What this means is that, whatever method of splitting you use, your workers are going to have to form a conga line to funnel between your Nexus/CC/Hatch and the farthest mineral patch in order to escape out in the open. This is the big "kill zone" where Hellions can score a lot of kills. Whatever method of splitting you use only starts mattering once your probes escape the minerals/Nexus choke, or if you, for some reason, have all your probes idling in the middle of your base. You can actually go 5 paths with your workers; above your mineral line, above both refineries or past your main base structure on both sides. Then you can resplit the group being chased while your cleanup crew comes. But ye, if you let them drop in your base uncontested you are going to lose at least some workers, nerf or not; blueflame or not. The nerf should make the damage a bit less severe IF you respond properly. Seems like it will mainly effect tvt & tvp battlewise though, marines being 3 shotted after stim now (from 4) and zealots 9 (from 7). Lings will still be 2 shotted by bfh and 3 by normal hellion. | ||
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Kortex22
France28 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:42 ExorArgus wrote: I've already posted in the thread once but HOLY DOUBLE DOUBLE CRAP BATMAN people need to calm down. I guess no one here remembers SC1 pre BW days. Everything was broken and retarded like how mutas just won (what could terran do marine medic, wait no medics until BW, there were no goliath w/ range, protoss could what? get coursairs, not until BW). Period. Or in WC3 pre TFT days were nightelf could get a hero and 6 archers and win. It took years for broodwar to become the beautiful game that it is today. There are still things to be discovered. It took something like 6 years for people to realize you could stack mutas in sc1 and that changed so much. Also anyone who says blizzard doesn't care about their games is just butthurt, if blizzard really didn't care they would just stop patching. People need to calm them selves and play some custom maps if the ladder is making them to angry. +1 User was warned for this post | ||
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laharl23
United States582 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:42 ExorArgus wrote: I've already posted in the thread once but HOLY DOUBLE DOUBLE CRAP BATMAN people need to calm down. I guess no one here remembers SC1 pre BW days. Everything was broken and retarded like how mutas just won (what could terran do marine medic, wait no medics until BW, there were no goliath w/ range, protoss could what? get coursairs, not until BW). Period. Or in WC3 pre TFT days were nightelf could get a hero and 6 archers and win. It took years for broodwar to become the beautiful game that it is today. There are still things to be discovered. It took something like 6 years for people to realize you could stack mutas in sc1 and that changed so much. Also anyone who says blizzard doesn't care about their games is just butthurt, if blizzard really didn't care they would just stop patching. People need to calm them selves and play some custom maps if the ladder is making them to angry. most people that play sc2 are first time rts players and expect the game to be balanced 1 year after release, which just isn't possible. | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
On September 02 2011 20:29 Shade_CsT wrote: Then how would you fix the 2 barracks TvZ imbalance ? It's the only way without nerfing terran too much late game (a change to marine would change the entiere game) IMO the best way to fix 2rax is the following change whenever a constructing building takes damage, the scv building it takes the same amount of damage. do that, and dont nerf barracks time by 5 seconds this way you dont have to have insane drone micro to stop bunker rushes, terrans have an advantage in being able to build anywhere but they damn sure better build things behind their wall or with troop support guarding the building or else enemies will harass the building to kill the scv. also, this actually makes it more likely for terrans to have to build their expansion in their base and fly it out instead of being greedy and making it at the nat sometimes | ||
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
On September 03 2011 04:20 roymarthyup wrote: IMO the best way to fix 2rax is the following change whenever a constructing building takes damage, the scv building it takes the same amount of damage. do that, and dont nerf barracks time by 5 seconds this way you dont have to have insane drone micro to stop bunker rushes, terrans have an advantage in being able to build anywhere but they damn sure better build things behind their wall or with troop support guarding the building or else enemies will harass the building to kill the scv. also, this actually makes it more likely for terrans to have to build their expansion in their base and fly it out instead of being greedy and making it at the nat sometimes This change would make it impossible for Terrans to build a wall in the first place ... or anything at all, really. All it would take was a single scouting worker to stall Terran's entire build indefinitely. Here's what happens: An SCV starts building a barracks at the wall, probe comes in, zaps it a few times, and the SCV building it is now dead. Bring a new SCV, probe zaps the building, SCV dead. Repeat until Terran has no SCV's left. At least think this through a bit before you post. | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
On September 03 2011 04:45 DarQraven wrote: This change would make it impossible for Terrans to build a wall in the first place. Honestly, an SCV starts building a barracks at the wall, probe comes in, zaps it a few times, and the SCV building it is now dead. Bring a new SCV, probe zaps the building, SCV dead. Repeat until Terran has no SCV's left. At least think this through a bit before you post. hows that different from the current game? besides putting bunkers between minerals which is what the hard2stop bunker rushes do, workers can easily kill the building scv already i seriously think my change does nothing that the current game doesnt already do if you are building something out in the open, a zergling on a-move will automatically target the scv anyway so your scv dies no matter what if you are building stuff inside your base and a zergling drop happens, zerglings on a-move will auto target scv's building the buildings first. so your building scv's die no matter what. same thing applies to mutalisks in your base. they auto-target the building scv's already my change doesnt change early game or lategame for terrans that are playing for a long macro game, it only nerfs bunker rushes it doesnt change early game either because normally your scv that is making the barracks is always in a location where it can be attacked anyway. i guess if you make a FAST 2depot/1rax wall that makes the 2nd depot before the rax is done then thats the only scenario where this change will cause a protected scv to become unprotected | ||
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