EPT
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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 208
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Esel
Germany151 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On August 29 2011 03:56 BeeNu wrote: rofl, "preemptive 5-6 spines" this is funny. Sure, you go ahead and do that then enjoy all those spines being 100% worthless because your Terran opponent scouted your spines and just sets Siege Tanks up or does a Medivac Drop or sends Banshees in. Right. You only need 3-4 spines, because you have 4 queens for anti-air. You get the money by waiting until 40 food (spending all your larva on drones except the two scoutlings) to throw down all 4 gases, at which point you lair before speed to have your overseer out in time for cloak. It's called the IceFisher (or Spanishiwa) build, and it's safe against next to everything with very little variation needed. | ||
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NightHawk929
79 Posts
Hellion nerf is very good, and that's coming from a terran player! TvT right now is just who can kill more workers. Barracks nerf i don't like. | ||
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Vapaach
Finland994 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
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NATO
United States459 Posts
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
On August 29 2011 07:43 NATO wrote: From a Terran player's perspective, I think the hellion nerf is VERY bad. It ruins that matchup. Does anyone know why Blizzard actually did this? Seems like it's not actually that good against the other races. For instance, greedy zerg with no defenses, and terrible control when defending still ends up ahead in workers right after the harass is over - and then since terran has no army to push, they can just drone 10 times right after. Probably because blue flame hellions as is require a perfect defence all game long, usually with considerably higher cost of units or static defence than the amount of hellions sent, where if 1 or 2 hellions get through they can completely eradicate the economy and win the game. I don't think it won't be a hit to terrans but I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to have a unit with the ability to do that much damage at once that's also that cheap, fast and small. If it proves that it makes terran too weak against all in lings or zealots or something I imagine they'll look at buffs in different areas but given previous it's unlikely Blizzard would turn around on something like this (see void rays, infestors). | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On August 29 2011 07:43 NATO wrote: From a Terran player's perspective, I think the hellion nerf is VERY bad. It ruins that matchup. Does anyone know why Blizzard actually did this? Seems like it's not actually that good against the other races. For instance, greedy zerg with no defenses, and terrible control when defending still ends up ahead in workers right after the harass is over - and then since terran has no army to push, they can just drone 10 times right after. Blue flame hellions destroy mineral lines and zerglings, its very hard to defend unless you have roaches out or somehow catch the hellions off guard. how so the terran has no army? you should macro while harrassing ofc, and when zerg get a crapload of drones killed how do you expect them to make an army to defend the next push and droning up? | ||
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NATO
United States459 Posts
On August 29 2011 07:51 leakingpear wrote: Probably because blue flame hellions as is require a perfect defence all game long, usually with considerably higher cost of units or static defence than the amount of hellions sent, where if 1 or 2 hellions get through they can completely eradicate the economy and win the game. I don't think it won't be a hit to terrans but I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to have a unit with the ability to do that much damage at once that's also that cheap, fast and small. If it proves that it makes terran too weak against all in lings or zealots or something I imagine they'll look at buffs in different areas but given previous it's unlikely Blizzard would turn around on something like this (see void rays, infestors). 4 hellions cost 400 minerals. One spine or canon costs 150. Compare this to the defense a terran needs against a zerg to just stay alive from lings, and it seems pretty cheap. Lings are faster, and kill workers faster, but Blizzard isn't nerfing them. (They're also very cheap!) Also hellions have to be microed precisely to be effective, whereas you basically 1a the lings to kill worker lines. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On August 29 2011 07:55 NATO wrote: 4 hellions cost 400 minerals. One spine or canon costs 150. Compare this to the defense a terran needs against a zerg to just stay alive from lings, and it seems pretty cheap. You mean build one salvageable bunker? Yeah, seems pretty expensive for a terran. | ||
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Disastorm
United States922 Posts
On August 29 2011 02:27 envisioN . wrote: But banelings smash marines, zerglings and mutas smash tanks, and infestors smash everything BUT ghosts. So really it all comes down to how you engage and how you micro your units so you get the highest cost efficiency possible. While that is kind of true, the Tanks have longer range than banelings, zerglings, and infestors, and marines have longer range than mutas, so Zerg doesn't really have any direct counters to them (until tier 3 where they get Brood Lords which can finally take down tanks), they just have to get a bunch of shit to defeat a Terran army. | ||
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TheTurk
United States732 Posts
Ultra buff is AWESOME. Infestor buff is ok. Lovin the Terran nerfs. I like the Immortal buff. My roaches cry when they see them anyway, and this isn't reassuring them any. But I like that they might be used most centrally in PvP and PvT, as well as PvZ I suppose. Vision up ramps will help a LOT with ridiculous early pressure. Very hopefully we will see more Mothership, Warp Prism, and Seeker Missle use in the proscene at least. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On August 29 2011 07:55 NATO wrote: 4 hellions cost 400 minerals. One spine or canon costs 150. Compare this to the defense a terran needs against a zerg to just stay alive from lings, and it seems pretty cheap. Lings are faster, and kill workers faster, but Blizzard isn't nerfing them. (They're also very cheap!) Also hellions have to be microed precisely to be effective, whereas you basically 1a the lings to kill worker lines. Good luck defending 4 blue flame hellions with 1 cannon or spine crawler you will lose every worker. | ||
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dbddbddb
Singapore969 Posts
LINE SPLASH DAMAGE. 100% damage range. if you clump up your workers while running away, its over no other unit in the game has such harass potential to kill workers so easily. there is no reason why this isnt getting nerfed. | ||
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Coopa826
Germany161 Posts
pls dont nerf them =/ | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
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Bonham
Canada655 Posts
On August 29 2011 07:55 NATO wrote: 4 hellions cost 400 minerals. One spine or canon costs 150. Compare this to the defense a terran needs against a zerg to just stay alive from lings, and it seems pretty cheap. Lings are faster, and kill workers faster, but Blizzard isn't nerfing them. (They're also very cheap!) Also hellions have to be microed precisely to be effective, whereas you basically 1a the lings to kill worker lines. Um, what? Have you seen someone try to run workers from a pack of hellions? If you clump them, the blueflame splash damage can destroy virtually any number of workers in two shots. The two most recent MLGs are chock full of terrans doing this. | ||
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NATO
United States459 Posts
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NATO
United States459 Posts
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NATO
United States459 Posts
On August 29 2011 07:58 Elefanto wrote: You mean build one salvageable bunker? Yeah, seems pretty expensive for a terran. I mean at least 3 turrets for mutas, PF, and at least two tanks. The rest can be filled with buildings you need anyway. | ||
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