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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Moralez
Portugal1857 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:48 0c3LoT wrote: I expect to see Ultras getting nerfed in the future if their buff actually goes through. Im sorry to tell you but you have no clue. WIth the change you just get a expensive useless unit, faster. | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:48 0c3LoT wrote: I expect to see Ultras getting nerfed in the future if their buff actually goes through. On August 26 2011 04:49 Yaotzin wrote: Ultras still suck though, you just get a sucky unit earlier  Ultras aren't bad units. The problem is that lowish level zerg players and above treat the Ultra/Crackling combo as an a-move army. This is simply not true and not usable. The Ultralisk is the backbone of an army, designed to rip through clusters of armored units and soak up fucktons of damage. It does REALLY well against stalkers, as stalkers are relatively slow and can't kite Ultras (afaik). The best way to use Ultra ling is to have the brunt of your army a-move and pull the zerglings in from behind and flank, cutting off the escape routes of the opposing army and simultaneously crushing them. Having ultras step over zerglings would just be too powerful. To clarify, Ultras aren't UP at all. Zergs are just using them at the wrong times and in the wrong way. | ||
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SnetteL
Belgium473 Posts
Ultras finally viable on small maps. | ||
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RusHXceL
United States1004 Posts
General Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1. This is going to *** for PvP | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:52 Flanagan wrote: When you group every single one of your infestors in one control group, then you deserve to die to multi prong drops, especially if you see it coming. Put like 2-3 infestors in 1-2-3 along with a pack of lings. You will never be successfully harassed when you go infestor ever again. You'll also never leave your base while the Terran takes the map Ultras aren't bad units. The problem is that lowish level zerg players and above treat the Ultra/Crackling combo as an a-move army. This is simply not true and not usable. The Ultralisk is the backbone of an army, designed to rip through clusters of armored units and soak up fucktons of damage. It does REALLY well against stalkers, as stalkers are relatively slow and can't kite Ultras (afaik). I think combined with blink they can kinda kite them. More importantly, ultras are already godawful against immortals, and now immortals got a buff and will get used more for it. | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:36 Loodah wrote: What have you been smoking? 1 base blink sucks It's almost an automatic victory vs 1 rax no gas expo terrs. Bunkers and marines simply cannot stop blink stalkers. | ||
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features
Ireland160 Posts
So happy with the +1 immortal range. Roach players generally cant effectively snipe immortals when theres 3+ of them within the army, but now that they can be easily used along with Stalkers without having to micro them to the front, I'll be laughing! Im happy, but I do have a feeling that it'll be a little unfair for the zerg player, immortals are probably gonna rape a little too hard just because Terran was way too good against them. From a balance point of view, I feel Bliz should have just tweaked how Hardened shield worked to stop heavy units focus firing them. | ||
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VeraTheGun
United States40 Posts
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:57 features wrote: HT, Immortal is a much saver composition than stalker, Collosus in PvZ in my opinion. So happy with the +1 immortal range. Roach players generally cant effectively snipe immortals when theres 3+ of them within the army, but now that they can be easily used along with Stalkers without having to micro them to the front, I'll be laughing! Im happy, but I do have a feeling that it'll be a little unfair for the zerg player, immortals are probably gonna rape a little too hard just because Terran was way too good against them. From a balance point of view, I feel Bliz should have just tweaked how Hardened shield worked to stop heavy units focus firing them. I think the +1 range on the immortals was intended to alleviate PvP. I am a zerg player and I do NOT look forward to playing roach vs protoss. I might actually switch to a crackling Ultra hydra style now that roach is so vulnerable. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:56 -_- wrote: It's almost an automatic victory vs 1 rax no gas expo terrs. Bunkers and marines simply cannot stop blink stalkers. 1 Base Blink annihilates 1 Rax no Gas CC. | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:48 Lamphead wrote: I feel like Blizzard just made the warp prism buff to remind Protoss players that the unit still exists.. It worked for the BFH icon change  | ||
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Poopfeast
160 Posts
And it will take 3 hellions instead of 2 hellions to 1shot workers. Who does Hellion drops with less than 3 hellions at a time? | ||
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Moralez
Portugal1857 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:54 Kinetik_Inferno wrote: Ultras aren't bad units. The problem is that lowish level zerg players and above treat the Ultra/Crackling combo as an a-move army. This is simply not true and not usable. The Ultralisk is the backbone of an army, designed to rip through clusters of armored units and soak up fucktons of damage. It does REALLY well against stalkers, as stalkers are relatively slow and can't kite Ultras (afaik). The best way to use Ultra ling is to have the brunt of your army a-move and pull the zerglings in from behind and flank, cutting off the escape routes of the opposing army and simultaneously crushing them. Having ultras step over zerglings would just be too powerful. To clarify, Ultras aren't UP at all. Zergs are just using them at the wrong times and in the wrong way. They are awful units, its the second most expensive unit ingame takes a long time to tech to em and by the time you get em every race can easily and QUICKLY counter em with lower tier units. So when you get ultras you must finish the game, or they will remain useless. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
I feel like this is very map dependent. For instance, I would never 1 base Blink against Terran on Shakuras or Antiga Shipyard, or even Shattered Temple. | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
On August 26 2011 05:03 Unfeared wrote: Ok, so now it still takes 2 blue flame hellions to 1shot a zerglings. And it will take 3 hellions instead of 2 hellions to 1shot workers. Who does Hellion drops with less than 3 hellions at a time? It's not necessarily the drops that are a problem, but run-bys are also quite common. often times terran players who just got a few hellions out will send them down the map (particularly open maps such as XNC) and simply have the hellions sit in the expo's backdoor, and wait until the infernal pre-igniter finishes. Usually only about 1-3 hellions are ready by that time, depending on the map. Yes drops are largely unaffected, but run-bys are seriously changed. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 05:07 Toadvine wrote: I feel like this is very map dependent. For instance, I would never 1 base Blink against Terran on Shakuras or Antiga Shipyard, or even Shattered Temple. There are other 1base blink builds that can work on those maps eg PvP style robo+obs+blink. | ||
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features
Ireland160 Posts
On August 26 2011 05:00 Kinetik_Inferno wrote: I think the +1 range on the immortals was intended to alleviate PvP. I am a zerg player and I do NOT look forward to playing roach vs protoss. I might actually switch to a crackling Ultra hydra style now that roach is so vulnerable. With good scouting, a solid zealot, immortal, HT, Archon ball should rape. Archons and Ultra are made to battle each other, they are perfectly balanced to tank eachothers damage, however now that immortals have 6 range, focus firing from the back will be much easier. HTs can kill any number of lings and hydra even with bad storms....... however the new fast build time may screw the Protoss enough that theres no time to get out those crucial archons with bad scouting. As for PvP your probably right, with the warp prism buff, dropping Immortals to snipe collosus may become popular Man, I do hate the Collosus and Im a Protoss player! | ||
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B0nes
United States16 Posts
They are going to rip through a tank line like no ones business. | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On August 26 2011 05:03 Unfeared wrote: the change is bad because all it will do is reduce strategic variance, opting for reactored hellions kills probes/drones in 3 hits regardlessOk, so now it still takes 2 blue flame hellions to 1shot a zerglings. And it will take 3 hellions instead of 2 hellions to 1shot workers. Who does Hellion drops with less than 3 hellions at a time? so blue flame is now only useful vs combat shield marines, zerglings, and scvs so this change won't mess up tvt too badly but bfh openers aren't very good vs zerg now if they paired it up with a change to the vehicle weapon upgrade for hellions to +2/lvl this change would make sense, but now it's just stupid | ||
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