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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 26 2011 04:17 Champ24 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:04 Trealador wrote:On August 26 2011 04:01 AWOT wrote:
I still believe the 5 seconds isn't such a big deal as everyone is talking about. Its not like mules don't exsist anymore. It is not like scans cost more energy. You have 5 seconds of micro. Enjoy it. You can still do a load of different things within the 5 seconds. As for the losing to 6pool thing...Thats just...Pathetic. Never use that as a arguement...Ever. What should I micro? Your mom? In all seriousness what do you want me to do with that time there is nothing happening? Maybe something similar to what a protoss does every time they 9 pylon? My nexus isn't doing anything and my probes all have actions!!! Unfortunately I can't spam control groups for apm speed anymore...guess I have to find something else to do.
Just because protoss have to wait doesn't make it any better, if you put your supply depot down at the perfect time, or pylon for that matter, you should be rewarded for being perfect on timings and be able to keep on creating SCVs almost seamlessly. If you are sacrificing placement for 2-3 seconds of no probe production that is working as intended imo. When I throw my supply depot down in my mineral line and still have to wait that is bullshit, cause im sacrificing its placement for a tiny bit better economy. Sorry if I want this game to have my decisions actually matter.
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best patch in history of blizzard
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tehee, I actually agree about what you say about statistics(my major was physics so I had my share of statistics) but really almost all the protoss you quoted have been eliminated.
yes, eliminated from a single season of gsl. but brosef... tassadar and puzzle (both toss) made it to code A finals (which is apparently FULL of terrans). someone explain THAT statistic... LOL.
Again more terrans means greater probabilty but is no guarentee. In fact that fact that 25% of final 8 are toss (genius and huk) is actually good given only a third of total players in gsl are toss.
this topic is great.
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I still think chain fungals are too strong. You can nerf the damage to high heaven, but all it takes is one fungal and any common sense to know that your units are already dead -_-
You shouldn't be able to build ONE unit and give it enough utility to deal with just about everything. Hell, at least give fungal growth friendly-fire like storm and EMP...
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You shouldn't be able to build ONE unit and give it enough utility to deal with just about everything. Hell, at least give fungal growth friendly-fire like storm and EMP...
TRUE. THAT.
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I know most people arent complaining about WP but for those of you who are saying its more useful then a medivac you are just wrong.
Terran are going to be making medivacs anyways, unless they are going strictly mech. So there is this unit you already have that can also drop units! oh it heals too. AND i can put the best dps for 8 supply in it! yep thats why its standard.
The Warp Prism takes up robo time, is kind of slow until researched (100/100). has no functionality except dropping and warping in. besides HT or DT (teir 3) there isnt too much worth dropping in toss arsenal. zealots in the mineral line is the fantasy, but workers are faster.
The best thing they can do is warp in 8-10 warpgate units(late game) into your base. so lets say 4+10 is 28 supply in your base immediately. they kill off two buildings warp in 10 more, 48 supply. your army gets back and annihilates toss cause it cant retreat (elevator play could be cool), you go crush toss cause two warpins is expensive.
Toss shouldnt do this and in reality this patch isnt breaking the the WP just making it a little hardier and giving toss some more options.
Its not losing the 200 minerals thats the scare it losing the 4 HT or DTs inside.
(theory)
What about putting a probe inside one warping cannons using power radius and then starting pylon as mini attacking route with cannon support. Seems very viable with blink stalker support.
3 stalkers + probe + 2 cannons +pylon +WP =1025 minerals 150 gas
warp in 4 more zealots (4 gate 1 robo +blink seems reasonable for a two base timing push)
move WP to another vulnerable spot scouted with observer. for any flanking needs possible inside there base.
This seems somewhat reasonable but completely ridiculous at the same time.
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On August 26 2011 04:14 Yaotzin wrote:
Haha 3gate robo. I wonder when the last time someone did that in a pro game was. Tyler probably.
k LOL YOU SO FUNNY MAN, you didn't sound like a classless prick at all!
Oh, and to answer your question, Liquid'Hero on his stream on ladder. He fucking steam rolled the other Korean guy doing 1-1-1.
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On August 26 2011 04:23 Thorrissey wrote:
I still think chain fungals are too strong. You can nerf the damage to high heaven, but all it takes is one fungal and any common sense to know that your units are already dead -_-
You shouldn't be able to build ONE unit and give it enough utility to deal with just about everything. Hell, at least give fungal growth friendly-fire like storm and EMP...
Infestors suck at dealing with drops.
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Dislike Immortal nerf but it was probably needed. Warp prism is underused not UP. Overlord I don't even understand the point. But w/e it's still usable.
I laugh at the terran nerfs. Always knew something is wrong with a 75 mineral that clears entire bases of drones faster than DTs.
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At least there is utllity for the terran's EMP. Such as in TvP ghosts can emp the thors so they don't take damage from feedback...And toss has storm to uh....Uh....>.>....It can.....Well, I guess they should start wearing rain coats or something.
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Forget PTR they should just implement this already, I'm dying to see how it turns out. Wait I guess they could wait until after MLG, but then update it and let's do this.
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On August 26 2011 04:28 R3N wrote:
Dislike Immortal nerf but it was probably needed. Warp prism is underused not UP. Overlord I don't even understand the point. But w/e it's still usable.
I laugh at the terran nerfs. Always knew something is wrong with a 75 mineral that clears entire bases of drones faster than DTs.
Immortals got buffed, and hellions are 100 minerals :0
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On August 26 2011 04:12 Trealador wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:09 Heavenly wrote:On August 26 2011 04:04 Trealador wrote:On August 26 2011 04:01 AWOT wrote:
I still believe the 5 seconds isn't such a big deal as everyone is talking about. Its not like mules don't exsist anymore. It is not like scans cost more energy. You have 5 seconds of micro. Enjoy it. You can still do a load of different things within the 5 seconds. As for the losing to 6pool thing...Thats just...Pathetic. Never use that as a arguement...Ever. What should I micro? Your mom? In all seriousness what do you want me to do with that time there is nothing happening? I told you to take a sip of water. It's 5 ingame seconds, you really can't wait a bit over 3 real game seconds? What do you do when you're making your first couple workers besides hit s when you get the minerals? Does the sight of the progress bar of the scv creation fill you with bliss or something? Some people go to church, others play sports, I watch SCVs build. And by god this is America and Blizzard cannot take my god given right to watch them build consistently and for all time. And if loving SCVs building is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
Most helpful post in this thread. I think this discussion was successfully solved by Trealador. I think other should accept this empirical proof.
Guys, the build time of the Barracks was originally 65 seconds. I don't remember anyone complaining about the Beta build time due to proxies or anything else. The only reason it was brought down because T was so underpowered at first and it was part of a whole host of attempts to get a rough balance.
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On August 26 2011 04:22 Trealador wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:17 Champ24 wrote:On August 26 2011 04:04 Trealador wrote:On August 26 2011 04:01 AWOT wrote:
I still believe the 5 seconds isn't such a big deal as everyone is talking about. Its not like mules don't exsist anymore. It is not like scans cost more energy. You have 5 seconds of micro. Enjoy it. You can still do a load of different things within the 5 seconds. As for the losing to 6pool thing...Thats just...Pathetic. Never use that as a arguement...Ever. What should I micro? Your mom? In all seriousness what do you want me to do with that time there is nothing happening? Maybe something similar to what a protoss does every time they 9 pylon? My nexus isn't doing anything and my probes all have actions!!! Unfortunately I can't spam control groups for apm speed anymore...guess I have to find something else to do. Just because protoss have to wait doesn't make it any better, if you put your supply depot down at the perfect time, or pylon for that matter, you should be rewarded for being perfect on timings and be able to keep on creating SCVs almost seamlessly. If you are sacrificing placement for 2-3 seconds of no probe production that is working as intended imo. When I throw my supply depot down in my mineral line and still have to wait that is bullshit, cause im sacrificing its placement for a tiny bit better economy. Sorry if I want this game to have my decisions actually matter.
So the game should be balanced on your irrational aesthetic desire to not have single short gap in the early game, rather than what actually results in balanced gameplay?
Your "reward" for "perfect timing" in the beginning 2 minutes of the game is now waiting 5 seconds, instead of 6 or 7.
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So what's the reasoning behind the blink nerf?? I had no idea it was OP
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On August 26 2011 04:27 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:23 Thorrissey wrote:
I still think chain fungals are too strong. You can nerf the damage to high heaven, but all it takes is one fungal and any common sense to know that your units are already dead -_-
You shouldn't be able to build ONE unit and give it enough utility to deal with just about everything. Hell, at least give fungal growth friendly-fire like storm and EMP... Infestors suck at dealing with drops.
That's negligible. If you're building a healthy amount of queens for macro hatches in your base then they will be able to deal with the transports and speedlings can rush back and clean up (and you should be spotting the drop early enough to recover).
Blizzard screwed up with the infestor nerf, I think. It's not the damage, but the chain fungals, as he already said. If you fungal a marine ball, you do significant damage and speedlings have an amazing opportunity to surround and kill the shit out of the ball. Or, even better, banelings.
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On August 26 2011 04:26 ShatterZer0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:14 Yaotzin wrote:
Haha 3gate robo. I wonder when the last time someone did that in a pro game was. Tyler probably. k LOL YOU SO FUNNY MAN, you didn't sound like a classless prick at all! Oh, and to answer your question, Liquid'Hero on his stream on ladder. He fucking steam rolled the other Korean guy doing 1-1-1.
You sound like a complete idiot
and he DOESNT sound like a "classless prick"
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As a Terran I've been thinking Overseers needed to be 50 gas for a while, so that's good. Nice to see a series of small buffs to things like the Overseer, Warp Prism, Seeker Missile, and Mothership to bring things more in line. Ditto on Immortal range. And I'm ecstatic about slightly weaker Infestors.
The only changes I guess I don't quite get are Blink increase, Rax increase, and Ultralisk HUGE decrease. I don't really worry about Blink timings much, but that's a big nerf for something that didn't seem broken (and may upset PVP as it disrupts Blink stalker's viability). And 5 seconds on Rax isn't a lot, but again it's something that didn't seem busted.
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On August 26 2011 04:31 Chocolate wrote:
So what's the reasoning behind the blink nerf?? I had no idea it was OP
To be clear blink is the same, it's just the research time. That generally indicates there's a specific timing attack that Blizzard thinks is too strong. I'm guessing 1base blink because it brings up the scouting issues that Zerg has. Not so much that this build is OP but difficult to scout in time. This gives a Zerg more time to scout it.
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On August 26 2011 04:28 R3N wrote:
Dislike Immortal nerf but it was probably needed. Warp prism is underused not UP. Overlord I don't even understand the point. But w/e it's still usable.
I laugh at the terran nerfs. Always knew something is wrong with a 75 mineral that clears entire bases of drones faster than DTs.
Uhm... There was no immortal nerf. It got buffed with +1 Range. 100 minerals for hellions as well 0.o
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EPT
