|
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 25 2011 23:48 Doz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 23:35 Shotgun2 wrote:
wow now actually combat shield is useless in marine vs helion fights O.o Will take 3 shots to kill a marine with or without combat shield Best double check your math. BFH do 15vs light now. Marines have 45 hp out of the box, combat shield raises this to 55 hp. Without combat shield, 45/15=3 shots to kill with BFH. With CS, 55/15=4 shots to kill with the last shot doing 5 damage overkill
???
bfh = 19 post patch, 24 prepatch
non blue flame = 14
|
On August 25 2011 23:37 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 23:24 Keyz1 wrote:
4 - Banelings can no longer be 2 shotted.
Why does everyone think Banes are light?
Because they come from zergling i guess.
Never knew why people think that.
Btw, 3 fungal don't kill viking anymore.
|
As a zerg player, I'm afraid they over buffed ultras :/
|
|
|
So Ive lurked for a long time but thought I'd chime in.
BFH change means hellion rushes actually *MAY* happen sooner - since red flame and blue flame both take 3 shots to kill non-scv workers you may see 3 pop out and attack. (14*3 = 42, 19*2 = 38)
Also: the BFH upgrade will reduce the shots required to kill an SCV from 4 to 30 (19*3 > 45) so you may still see it in TVT.
I hope this doesn't really hurt the presence of mech - I rather enjoyed watching mech play develop more and more as a viable alternative. the BFH upgrade will also stay useful in large mech balls (especially if they're the support unit responsible for thinning chargelot ranks and whatnot)
So the BFH change - while odd for terran to come to grips with won't be tooo terribly painful and may *actually* result in earlier rushes.
Barracks build time also just puts it in line with the other races buildings (gateway and spawning pool both take 65 seconds) and while the spawning pool now "reigns supreme" as the only building that doesn't technically (gateway) or directly (barracks) have a precursor building it shouldn't be too great of an overall detriment.
Also: apologies if this info on BFH is a repeat - but no one seemed to really spell out the simple numbers of the BFH change.
Cheers
Ash
|
On August 25 2011 23:51 Toxi78 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 23:48 Doz wrote:On August 25 2011 23:35 Shotgun2 wrote:
wow now actually combat shield is useless in marine vs helion fights O.o Will take 3 shots to kill a marine with or without combat shield Best double check your math. BFH do 15vs light now. Marines have 45 hp out of the box, combat shield raises this to 55 hp. Without combat shield, 45/15=3 shots to kill with BFH. With CS, 55/15=4 shots to kill with the last shot doing 5 damage overkill ??? bfh = 19 post patch, 24 prepatch non blue flame = 14
Doesn't really matter though, people keep forgetting to take stim into the equation.
Stim:
Before:
Non-CS(35): 3 hellion shots, 2 BFH
CS(45) 4 hellion shots, 2 BFH
Now:
Non-CS(35): 3 hellion shots, 2 BFH
CS(45) 4 hellion shots, 3 BFH
So yeah, atleast if you are stimming, against BFH, it will help.
|
On August 25 2011 22:26 AmericanUmlaut wrote:One of the more minor changes that I think is kind of interesting: Show nested quote +Resources spent repairing are now reported as resources lost when the repaired unit dies. Doesn't change gameplay in any way, but it makes the resources lost tab slightly more accurate in terms of showing how much investment has been lost. Also Show nested quote +Fixed an issue where Colossus thermal lance beams would track a unit much further than the range of the weapon. This makes me very sad. I love the blink/infinite lance visual.
Does anyone know if that display glitch actually dealt splash damage while the beam trailed off so far?
|
I like & understand pretty much this entire patch.
The one thing I don't get, though, is the blink nerf. Why was it necessary? I can't see the problem in PvZ anymore, seeing as it can be held off easily, as was showcased multiple times.
It makes me think it's for PvP purposes, but if it is, that's just stupid, PvP is evolving without changes and this would kinda fuck that up ;/.
if anyone knows something about the blink thing, please enlighten me  !
Do like howthey finally added the chat functions as well!
|
@ ausbox
The blink time increase is not necessarily a nerf, it will just affect players who rush to blink stalkers.
The main thing in my opinion (about protoss) is the warp prism, it makes it a much better harass unit, much more worth the time on the robotics facility. Is it overpowered? We will see. It does get ridiculously fast with the speed increase. Tyler will definitely be happy though!
|
I'm guessing the barracks increased build time must be for one of 2 reasons:
I wonder if blizzard feels that 2rax bunker rushes vs zerg are affecting the metagame negatively, or if offsetting the tech of terran by a few seconds is needed to slow it down. Setting OC back by a few seconds means less mule money, slower factory, also in my builds currently, it seems like i could get 1 more scv out before making an OC due to this change.
just my 2 cents: I dont think i would want to pay 150/150 to add 5 damage to my hellions, dont even need a tech lab for hellion play now  nah i dont know, maybe it will still be okay.
|
On August 25 2011 23:57 Fyzar wrote:I like & understand pretty much this entire patch. The one thing I don't get, though, is the blink nerf. Why was it necessary? I can't see the problem in PvZ anymore, seeing as it can be held off easily, as was showcased multiple times. It makes me think it's for PvP purposes, but if it is, that's just stupid, PvP is evolving without changes and this would kinda fuck that up ;/. if anyone knows something about the blink thing, please enlighten me ! Do like howthey finally added the chat functions as well!
I just think PvP is fine they way it is, they never fixed ZvZ in broodwar, why bothers fixing PvP now?
And I think vulture x3 mines is more broken than BHF and Blizz never fixed it.
|
|
|
Unit vision up ramps has been reduced - makes terran a little harder to scout, they are already hard enough but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make.
Immortal change is weird, it was already a useful unit that was used in all matchups, I guess Blizz just wants them to be massed more?
Oh, they also want to see more motherships.
Blink time seems a little silly for me, less all-ins in pro games though I guess.
I am genuinely sad to see the warp prism buff, the speed of the unit allows for some insane micro and I was waiting for the day to see that happen. It will be even worse if people start using them now so then they decide to reduce the speed.
Barracks change is nice, it gets old seeing pro matches end so quickly and it is the only early game killing move that is still used consistently. Balance aside bunker rushing a zerg as often as it happens does not make for a good esport.
Hellion...well I have been scared to death of hellions, I just hope this isn't too much that people stop using them. I like how they made the blue flame upgrade limited to people going mech or large amounts of hellions and is no longer a rush to kill workers upgrade.
Seeker missile - fuck yes, I hope we start seeing a lot of these.
Fungal growth seems like a good change. The funny thing is that it was the first fungal change that made a lot of zergs realize the real power of infested terran and neural parasite, I don't think it was ever needed.
Overseer, nice change.
Ultralisks probably will still suck, but this will help.
|
On August 25 2011 23:57 wichenks wrote:
@ ausbox
The blink time increase is not necessarily a nerf, it will just affect players who rush to blink stalkers.
No, it's a nerf.
If what way will it ever be advantageous to have your research take longer?
|
holy shit, when did blizzard grow a pair of balls? trolling aside i think this patch sounds pretty amazing. i was not expecting anything like this until HOTS, but I have to say blizzard seems to be listening. at first look i am pretty ok with all the patch notes. as a terran player who hasnt been able to play for a bit the blue flame hellion change really wont affect me as i never actually got to start abusing them. all in all nice work bliz!
|
i dont understand why does the build time of ultra need to be so low.
|
As a terran, I don't mind the pre-igniter change - it was almost ubiquitous in every matchup, and too strong.
But the barracks change is stupid. Why muck up all my timings to help ZvT, which doesn't need any help? Bunker play is a solid part of the game, and one of the only interesting ways to open at the moment - it doesn't need another nerf.
If they're gonna do this they need to remove the supply depot requirement - we should have the option of taking a large eco hit for faster aggression.
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On August 26 2011 00:03 oikia wrote:
i dont understand why does the build time of ultra need to be so low.
To make them buildable faster, than Brood Lords.
|
|
|
Why are marines untouchable? Every time terran is considered overpowered by Blizzard, they try to find a way of doing it without changing the stats of marines. In fact, they've fooled around with barracks build time and requirements to slow down marines without having to touch the marine itself. I can't help but think the hellion change is partly due to TvT and not just solely because of TvZ.
Oh, and are we on a 2 balance patch streak without bunker or zealot build time changes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
