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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 133

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9040 CommentsPost a Reply
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
andiCR
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2273 Posts
August 25 2011 14:07 GMT
#2641
Well, harrasing the scv building the barracks will be all that more succesful.

I think the blink nerf comes for pvp as well. Buffing inmortal and nerfin blink would give a better chance of going robo against blink builds.
Nightmare1795 wrote: I played a guy in bronze who said he was Japanese. That was the only game I ever dropped a nuke, which was purely coincidental.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
August 25 2011 14:07 GMT
#2642
I'm not sure I understand this ramp change correctly.

Does it mean I can place marines a bit lower on the ramp and incoming zerglings wont see them? Or if the zergling gets midway up the ramp, it'll see less?
s3183529
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia707 Posts
August 25 2011 14:08 GMT
#2643
On August 25 2011 23:02 ClueLessx3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 22:53 Moochlol wrote:
On August 25 2011 22:51 Heavenly wrote:
On August 25 2011 22:38 Moochlol wrote:
On August 25 2011 22:35 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 25 2011 22:32 Moochlol wrote:
As far as 1/1/1. Only morons belive that is that OP. 1 gate Robo, allows you to confirm that build very quickly, which in turn allows you to rush to HT. 4 storms+feedback RAPE that garbage.

Uh no, that's just not possible, sorry.


Oh really explain why, because I have seen that build get raped time and time again. Liquid tyler suggested 1 gate robo, and it works well. Are you better than liquid tyler? Explain why it doesnt work.


Lol, you expect to have one gate robo into twilight council into templar archives into storm into four high templar having storm by the time the attack hits? And lol LiquidTyler said "be safe with your scouting and progress into a normal midgame" which makes no sense in context of 1-1-1 because you have to be greedy to stop it and even when scouted it doesn't matter. If LiquidTyler played some PvT on the Korean server he would change his mind quickly. I remember watching him stream like a month ago and he seemed completely baffled about baneling drops on his army like he had never seen them before. He's just not up to date with the game anymore.


No infact you go 1 gate robo, nexus, gate gate twilight, and then as many gates as u can afford usually 1 or 2 more. you can have an archon or so a good amount of zealot 4 HT some stalker and an immortal. I dont see the problem.


So how do you get HT with just Twilight council? Besides i'm assuming you want storms unlocked for HT as well, that's another 110 sec to research + warping waiting time since KA was removed. We just don't have enough time to get all that while maintaining a healthy army.

I think he is trolling (or just trying to get attention) so i'm going to stop feeding him, after this post.

Ask Liquid Tyler v 111 against Bomber. Changes should be made for Koreans, not foreigners!
tRunXs
Profile Joined September 2010
United States8 Posts
August 25 2011 14:09 GMT
#2644
Maybe I just don't understand it but in regards to Hellions Blue flame - even if they are at 1/2 dmg per hellion having 4-6 would still one shot a worker line... So you just need to invest a little more in an additional hellion or two before attacking?
pallad
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland1958 Posts
August 25 2011 14:09 GMT
#2645
On August 25 2011 23:02 phodacbiet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 22:51 wo1fwood wrote:
On August 25 2011 22:48 Belial88 wrote:
So how exactly does the FG nerf work?

I know a lot of people are saying "LOL SEE INFESTOR OP ROFL" but according to a lot of people's analysis, the infestor still kills most units in the same shots (particularly Protoss units).

What is the reason behind the FG nerf? It seems they didn't think (and I agree) it was OP in ZvP, but I imagine this affects ZvT? In which case, infestors were never a problem in that match-up - yes, it's annoying to get your marines fungalled, but good Zerg's didn't rely on infestors in that match-up but still used ling/bane/muta.

Mentioned a little earlier in the thread, but in ZvZ, infestors no longer one shot lings


Infestors never did one shot lings


True but fungal was killing banelings by one shot , now banes will surwive :D
SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD
Heavenly
Profile Joined January 2011
2172 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 14:13:49
August 25 2011 14:11 GMT
#2646
On August 25 2011 23:07 Bagi wrote:
I'm not sure I understand this ramp change correctly.

Does it mean I can place marines a bit lower on the ramp and incoming zerglings wont see them? Or if the zergling gets midway up the ramp, it'll see less?


Stops above ramp warp-ins and being able to blink up over forcefields near the bottom of the map I believe. Huge nerf to 4gate and a big one to blink. I think this and the 30 seconds nerf will completely kill blink openers in PvP, especially with the immortal buff. Looks like it's good old colossi wars from here on in. Maybe immortal/phoenix will become popular but 6 colossi still destroy anything on the ground.
"thx for all my fans i'm many lost but cheer for me .. i lost but so happy my power is fans i will good play this is promise my fans" - oGsMC
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
August 25 2011 14:13 GMT
#2647
Oh no.... has goody seen this patch yet ;_;
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
ravemir
Profile Joined April 2011
Portugal595 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 14:14:01
August 25 2011 14:13 GMT
#2648
"Units with movement suppressed can now issue an order to board a transport instead of just follow it."

Wait, does this mean that fungalled units can board medivacs now?
"more gg, more skill"
Gobbles
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 14:15:29
August 25 2011 14:14 GMT
#2649
On August 25 2011 23:11 Heavenly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 23:07 Bagi wrote:
I'm not sure I understand this ramp change correctly.

Does it mean I can place marines a bit lower on the ramp and incoming zerglings wont see them? Or if the zergling gets midway up the ramp, it'll see less?


Stops above ramp warp-ins and being able to blink up over forcefields near the bottom of the map I believe. Huge nerf to 4gate and a big one to blink. I think this and the 30 seconds nerf will completely kill blink openers in PvP, especially with the immortal buff. Looks like it's good old colossi wars from here on in.


I think you missed the big picture here. They BUFFED warp Prism and they BUFFED Immortal, ever seen an immortal vs a colossus? This means toss's will have positional battle dropping immortals to kill col's. Thus LOWERING the colossus battles.

Quick edit: There has been attempts at dropping immortals to kill col's already but the prism's were SOOO weak it made it impossible (or way to risky).
You already said spite
Heavenly
Profile Joined January 2011
2172 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 14:18:31
August 25 2011 14:17 GMT
#2650
On August 25 2011 23:14 Gobbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 23:11 Heavenly wrote:
On August 25 2011 23:07 Bagi wrote:
I'm not sure I understand this ramp change correctly.

Does it mean I can place marines a bit lower on the ramp and incoming zerglings wont see them? Or if the zergling gets midway up the ramp, it'll see less?


Stops above ramp warp-ins and being able to blink up over forcefields near the bottom of the map I believe. Huge nerf to 4gate and a big one to blink. I think this and the 30 seconds nerf will completely kill blink openers in PvP, especially with the immortal buff. Looks like it's good old colossi wars from here on in.


I think you missed the big picture here. They BUFFED warp Prism and they BUFFED Immortal, ever seen an immortal vs a colossus? This means toss's will have positional battle dropping immortals to kill col's. Thus LOWERING the colossus battles.

Quick edit: There has been attempts at dropping immortals to kill col's already but the prism's were SOOO weak it made it impossible (or way to risky).


That sounds very viable versus one base colossi but I think it'll start shifting into something like 1gate robo into 3gate robo into expand into colossi tech with blink stalker support. There will be more expansions in PvP probably which is cool but I think it'll still be colossi-focused since in high numbers they take out anything on the ground quickly, maybe double robo colossi even. I edited to say that phoenix/immortal might become a popular strategy but I'm not certain. As a side note I think hallucination will become more common to use hallu phoenixes to scout since its almost impossible to scout with an obs if they have an obs waiting
"thx for all my fans i'm many lost but cheer for me .. i lost but so happy my power is fans i will good play this is promise my fans" - oGsMC
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
August 25 2011 14:17 GMT
#2651

Attack upgrades are now retained by units controlled by Neural Parasite.

This is a pretty sweet buff.. colossus do more etc.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
s3183529
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia707 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 14:18:40
August 25 2011 14:18 GMT
#2652
After seeing This
Sentry Guardian Shield now correctly reduces damage from Hellion, Void ray, and Colossus attacks as well as the Siege Tank’s sieged attack. + Immortal range. I think Protoss can probably deal with 111 now, since Immortal now is more useful vs tank, and guardian shield can protect immortal, zealot and stalkers better from tank shots. Anyway, we gotta see how it actually turns out in GSL though.
Any thought?
LilClinkin
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Australia667 Posts
August 25 2011 14:20 GMT
#2653
On August 25 2011 23:04 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 22:52 LilClinkin wrote:
Hellion nerf is woeful, why are so many people complaining about BFH? Compare to bw, you had reavers, storm drops, lurker spines, all of which decimated worker lines at all stages of the game. With a little bit of sim-city and map awareness, BFH carnage on workers is largely negated.

I can just imagine the rage of players in sc2 if the lurker were present. "Zerg has a unit which can be invisible and 2-shot workers with a range twice as long as the hellion attack? NERF THAT **** ASAP!!!"


AHM.....

The Reaver
Was fucking expensive and basically not useable whiteout a Shuttle (which did nothing expect transporting) a 2 Reaver drop, with slow shuttles, cost you 600/200 (whiteout Buildings/Tech) and when killed was a HUGE loss.. And you probably would like to have shuttlespeed and ideally scarab damage upgraded.
He came from a building that produced only shuttles (and with an extra building observers) and needed also extra building.
Oh, the Shuttle did actually nothing more than "shuttle" units...
Oh, there were also Terrors that could kill that thing in a second when you did not watch for a sec.

The Hellion
Is a friggin cheap mineral sink thats blazing fast.
He does not need a dropship to work (but it helps) and the Dropship can heal Biounits.
Is pretty early in the standard Techtree that you want in basically every game except when your cheesing heavy.


Ahem

The hellion with BF upgrade is a significant cost to terran. Requires techlab and research time which could have instead been spent on siege tech or getting a starport. Hellions suck in a straight-up fight against most units. Even a sentry beats a hellion 1v1. Their saving grace is the fact they can be upgraded to own light units. The problem with BFH nerf against workers is now 3 are required to 1shot them after BFH...but 3 shots will kill a worker even without BFH. So why would any one upgrade BFH? If you imagine 3 hellions trying to stack their damage onto a single overlapping point, their potency is greatly reduced compared to the overlap of 2 hellions.

As for the performance of hellions against other light units (zealots, marines, zealots): Marines rape hellions in a straight up fight, good micro is required to get marines into a bad formation to 1shot them with BFH. This effect will be greatly reduced due to nerfed BFH. Zerglings vs hellions: Zerglings hold their own against BFH on creep if microed to surround correctly. Zerglings own non BFH hellion and with nerfed BFH they will still own. Zealots...with charge, pretty much the same as zerglings. Slightly slower, but much tankier. They will cost-effectively own nerfed BFH hellions, and require no micro to do so.

If blizzard were truly so concerned about the hellion owning workers, why not change worker armor from light to normal? It would interfere with baneling and reaper damage...I wouldn't be happy, but it's better than destroying the identity of the hellion.
Iroh
Profile Joined February 2011
England48 Posts
August 25 2011 14:20 GMT
#2654
On August 25 2011 23:14 Gobbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 23:11 Heavenly wrote:
On August 25 2011 23:07 Bagi wrote:
I'm not sure I understand this ramp change correctly.

Does it mean I can place marines a bit lower on the ramp and incoming zerglings wont see them? Or if the zergling gets midway up the ramp, it'll see less?


Stops above ramp warp-ins and being able to blink up over forcefields near the bottom of the map I believe. Huge nerf to 4gate and a big one to blink. I think this and the 30 seconds nerf will completely kill blink openers in PvP, especially with the immortal buff. Looks like it's good old colossi wars from here on in.


I think you missed the big picture here. They BUFFED warp Prism and they BUFFED Immortal, ever seen an immortal vs a colossus? This means toss's will have positional battle dropping immortals to kill col's. Thus LOWERING the colossus battles.

Quick edit: There has been attempts at dropping immortals to kill col's already but the prism's were SOOO weak it made it impossible (or way to risky).


Watching White-ra try this made me nerdgasm. Drop/robo play will become massive, and hopefully a way of getting to 2 base will come out of this. If it does then I think PvP could become very interesting and in my eyes, make it fun!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Heavenly
Profile Joined January 2011
2172 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 14:22:19
August 25 2011 14:20 GMT
#2655
On August 25 2011 23:18 s3183529 wrote:
After seeing This
Sentry Guardian Shield now correctly reduces damage from Hellion, Void ray, and Colossus attacks as well as the Siege Tank’s sieged attack. + Immortal range. I think Protoss can probably deal with 111 now, since Immortal now is more useful vs tank, and guardian shield can protect immortal, zealot and stalkers better from tank shots. Anyway, we gotta see how it actually turns out in GSL though.
Any thought?


Not sure. I don't think that is a particularly noteworthy buff because guardian shield is best against rapid, low-damage attacks like marines and siege tanks are high damage, low firing rate. Immortal buff might help a good bit but it's not like marines don't slaughter them. Hard to say because +1 range is a lot, that + massive made archons so much better.
"thx for all my fans i'm many lost but cheer for me .. i lost but so happy my power is fans i will good play this is promise my fans" - oGsMC
CodECleaR
Profile Joined November 2010
United States395 Posts
August 25 2011 14:20 GMT
#2656
dayumn, loving the warp prism shields buff as well as the GShield fix and immortal +1 range. This will really help protoss deal with 1/1/1 imo, but personally, I think i'll stick to 1 gate expanding and just overpowering the army... :3
How do you beat a terran who's hardcore turtling off 3 base? Flip him on his back and walk away."
H0i
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands484 Posts
August 25 2011 14:21 GMT
#2657
On August 25 2011 23:05 Atrimex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 22:17 Doz wrote:
In case this hasn't been answered yet, the reason for the barracks change is due to the 11/11 rax and 12/14 rax builds in tvz.

As much as a I feel a zerg should be able to be punished for expanding before building any combat units, this change should decrease slightly the amount of pressure a terran can put on in the first 4 minutes


But now zerg can macro up without any disturbance. Terra will loose the early midgame advantage and dont get any late game buff for it.

Welcome to PvZ.
Gobbles
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada91 Posts
August 25 2011 14:21 GMT
#2658
On August 25 2011 23:20 Iroh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 23:14 Gobbles wrote:
On August 25 2011 23:11 Heavenly wrote:
On August 25 2011 23:07 Bagi wrote:
I'm not sure I understand this ramp change correctly.

Does it mean I can place marines a bit lower on the ramp and incoming zerglings wont see them? Or if the zergling gets midway up the ramp, it'll see less?


Stops above ramp warp-ins and being able to blink up over forcefields near the bottom of the map I believe. Huge nerf to 4gate and a big one to blink. I think this and the 30 seconds nerf will completely kill blink openers in PvP, especially with the immortal buff. Looks like it's good old colossi wars from here on in.


I think you missed the big picture here. They BUFFED warp Prism and they BUFFED Immortal, ever seen an immortal vs a colossus? This means toss's will have positional battle dropping immortals to kill col's. Thus LOWERING the colossus battles.

Quick edit: There has been attempts at dropping immortals to kill col's already but the prism's were SOOO weak it made it impossible (or way to risky).


Watching White-ra try this made me nerdgasm. Drop/robo play will become massive, and hopefully a way of getting to 2 base will come out of this. If it does then I think PvP could become very interesting and in my eyes, make it fun!


Yeah I loved it too, I tried it myself but losing immortals in a paper plane was wayyy to frustrating! White-Ra is the man!
You already said spite
R4TM
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil140 Posts
August 25 2011 14:21 GMT
#2659
Seriously i want to see how immortals will be now... i have a feeling it will be a bit overpowered now, for terrans and for Zerg, Ultras will be "useless" in TvZ, lets see, no change in the hidra? fail

The other changes are cool, this patch gives a lot of modifications though some major stuff was left aside.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
August 25 2011 14:22 GMT
#2660
On August 25 2011 23:21 R4TM wrote:
Seriously i want to see how immortals will be now... i have a feeling it will be a bit overpowered now, for terrans and for Zerg, Ultras will be "useless" in TvZ, lets see, no change in the hidra? fail

The other changes are cool, this patch gives a lot of modifications though some major stuff was left aside.

With nerfed anti-air infestor, hydra will be more usable.

Now it's need ONE more fungal to kill Vikings, mutalisks and many other units.
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