• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:29
CEST 03:29
KST 10:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War385.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War Bot on ladder Repalyzer - replay analysis app for StarCraft: Rem Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9331 users

Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 102

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 100 101 102 103 104 453 Next
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
Girondelle
Profile Joined December 2010
France969 Posts
August 25 2011 09:16 GMT
#2021
I dont understand the reasoning behind the barrack building time increased
Geisterkarle
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Germany3257 Posts
August 25 2011 09:17 GMT
#2022
On August 25 2011 18:10 Brainiac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 18:08 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:05 Brainiac wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:01 Tristy wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:00 Snowbear wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:00 Brainiac wrote:
Blizzard keeps fixing terran leaving them less and less options early game. I wonder when they are gonna fix the real problem - late game.


Indeed. Terran lategame is HORRIBLE, yet there are 0 fixes.

So I take it you ignored the HUUGE HSM buff then? that will be amazing for lategame.


Dude, the problem is obviosly not some flashy HSM which is useless, but terran macro machanics. Protoss can insta warp xx units + can chrono gates, zergs can spawn xx units from larva, terran doesn't such things. That's why they just can't keep up late game.


Make more rax. The cooldown on warpgate means it should be around the same production wise.



LOL. You forget the fact that after max/max situation toss can insta warp 30 units into a battlefield (proxy pylons) while terran still has to wait for units to be trained. Please, don't make ignorant statements like "make moar rax", it's so stupid.

Actually, if you are T and 200 and about to engage a battle, just fill the production line before and the units will pop out while you can concentrate on the battle and micro like hell ... while the protoss player has to click for every unit he wants to produce and while he is doing this can't control his army reasonably! In this the Zerg is probably the worst!
There can only be one Geisterkarle
The Intensity
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom66 Posts
August 25 2011 09:17 GMT
#2023
Nice to know that Blizzard are nerfing Zerg's one good unit.

Wp Blizzard, wp.

User was temp banned for this post.
COCA!
Linkirvana
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands365 Posts
August 25 2011 09:18 GMT
#2024
"If a unit provides power, that power is temporarily transferred to a player using Neural Parasite."

What does this mean? If it was just about a warp prism I suppose they would've just said warp prism. And I think neuraling a mothership already caused the cloaking field to change sides as well.

So what "power"? Do they mean like, if P has researched storm, and Z neurals a templar, Z gets to storm with the templar? As far as I know that was already the case as well.

Gshield perhaps? Maybe if you used to neural a sentry, the gshield would not change sides as well?
namste
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland2292 Posts
August 25 2011 09:18 GMT
#2025
Also with this change:


Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes.

My APM will be around 6. This change doesn't exactly make sense to me, wasn't control group selections etc. counted as apm for Broodwar or what's the deal behind the change?
IM hwaitiing ~ IMMvp #1 | Bang Min Ah <3<3
ZaaaaaM
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1828 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 09:19:26
August 25 2011 09:18 GMT
#2026
Would like more changes to the hydra and ultra=(
But overal a pretty good patch

On August 25 2011 18:18 namste wrote:
Also with this change:


Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes.

My APM will be around 6. This change doesn't exactly make sense to me, wasn't control group selections etc. counted as apm for Broodwar or what's the deal behind the change?

Blizzard wants the APM tab in sc2 to be as close to being pure "helpfull" apm as possible I think.
no dude, the question
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
August 25 2011 09:18 GMT
#2027
On August 25 2011 18:17 The Intensity wrote:
Nice to know that Blizzard are nerfing Zerg's one good unit.

Wp Blizzard, wp.


The only games zerg wins are when they make nothing all game but infestors.
Hey! How you doin'?
maskseller
Profile Joined September 2010
96 Posts
August 25 2011 09:18 GMT
#2028
On August 25 2011 18:11 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no idea why people don't understand the rax changes. Terran is winning in both ZvT and ZvP, if it means one less win in 1000 games played it's helping to realign the balance between races.


That's not they way to balance races. It's like making all terran buildings self destruct 1 out of 1000 games and say you are helping to balance wins/losses...
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
August 25 2011 09:19 GMT
#2029
On August 25 2011 18:11 Talho wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 17:51 Elefanto wrote:
On August 25 2011 17:47 Deckkie wrote:
@ Any Protoss,

With the Blink nerf, is there a chance that we will be watching mostly 4 gate vs 4 gate again?


No, but the coin-flippy 4gate blink without detection build gets useless as you won't break a solid
2/3 gate robo into blink.

It makes the match-up more stable.


If it does go to 2gate/robo only, wont voidray rush ruin the matchup again ?

The voidray rush wasn't really viable in 1.3 cause 4gate & blink stalkers were common, unless you knew from your opponent he almost always goes robo.


I think phoenix openings might become more popular again, but with the new Ramp Vision change, you could force field your ramp off while dealing with the void-rays.
But that's something that will maybe pop up lol
wat
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
August 25 2011 09:19 GMT
#2030
On August 25 2011 18:16 Girondelle wrote:
I dont understand the reasoning behind the barrack building time increased


Very easy, the very early bunkerrushes were quite hard to hold off and too easy too execute.
Now it comes 5 seconds later :p
Bertis
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia11 Posts
August 25 2011 09:20 GMT
#2031
The barracks build time is going to disrupt the perfect orbital command/marine timing.
Linkirvana
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands365 Posts
August 25 2011 09:20 GMT
#2032
On August 25 2011 18:16 Girondelle wrote:
I dont understand the reasoning behind the barrack building time increased


I would guess they want to nerf terran early agression a little, perhaps on ultra high level of play those 5 seconds change some sort of 'imba' timing.
AntiGrav1ty
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2310 Posts
August 25 2011 09:20 GMT
#2033
On August 25 2011 18:08 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 18:05 Brainiac wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:01 Tristy wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:00 Snowbear wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:00 Brainiac wrote:
Blizzard keeps fixing terran leaving them less and less options early game. I wonder when they are gonna fix the real problem - late game.


Indeed. Terran lategame is HORRIBLE, yet there are 0 fixes.

So I take it you ignored the HUUGE HSM buff then? that will be amazing for lategame.


Dude, the problem is obviosly not some flashy HSM which is useless, but terran macro machanics. Protoss can insta warp xx units + can chrono gates, zergs can spawn xx units from larva, terran doesn't such things. That's why they just can't keep up late game.


Make more rax. The cooldown on warpgate means it should be around the same production wise.



If you are maxed you can instantly remax in 3 seconds after losing units and they are instantly on the field to fight. No matter how many raxes you have, you cant do that with terra.

If you lose 30 supply it takes at least 30 seconds for a unit to get built and u need to rally it across half the map. So in TvP i gotta have 15 barracks with reactors and then I have to wait 50 seconds till my units are where I need them but since gateways have cooldown it's the same...?

Zerg on the other hand can tank up larvae when maxed and instantly rebuild ~ 80 supply if needed. To keep up with that after an even engagement Terra needs 40 Barracks with reactors for marines or 20 Factories for tanks... That's such a huge investment and seriously, who has the room to build that...

I'm not even saying that it is necessarily imba but it is definitely a disadvantage in lategame. There definitely is a reason why Terrans prefer early or midgame pushes and timing attacks. If eventually every single one of those pushes get nerfed Terran needs some lategame buffs to compensate.

www.twitch.tv/antigrav1ty
namste
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland2292 Posts
August 25 2011 09:20 GMT
#2034
On August 25 2011 18:13 Rataplan wrote:
It looks like a great patch.
Although the time changes for Blink and Ultralisk looks like they are pretty big.

But we will see how it works out when the patch is live.


Well Ultra does take forever to make so no one really goes for them atm. I'd say the change is good, maybe tweak the time a bit but that's what PTR is for.
IM hwaitiing ~ IMMvp #1 | Bang Min Ah <3<3
Brainiac
Profile Joined May 2011
Poland641 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 09:21:34
August 25 2011 09:20 GMT
#2035
On August 25 2011 18:17 Geisterkarle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 18:10 Brainiac wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:08 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:05 Brainiac wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:01 Tristy wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:00 Snowbear wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:00 Brainiac wrote:
Blizzard keeps fixing terran leaving them less and less options early game. I wonder when they are gonna fix the real problem - late game.


Indeed. Terran lategame is HORRIBLE, yet there are 0 fixes.

So I take it you ignored the HUUGE HSM buff then? that will be amazing for lategame.


Dude, the problem is obviosly not some flashy HSM which is useless, but terran macro machanics. Protoss can insta warp xx units + can chrono gates, zergs can spawn xx units from larva, terran doesn't such things. That's why they just can't keep up late game.


Make more rax. The cooldown on warpgate means it should be around the same production wise.



LOL. You forget the fact that after max/max situation toss can insta warp 30 units into a battlefield (proxy pylons) while terran still has to wait for units to be trained. Please, don't make ignorant statements like "make moar rax", it's so stupid.

Actually, if you are T and 200 and about to engage a battle, just fill the production line before and the units will pop out while you can concentrate on the battle and micro like hell ... while the protoss player has to click for every unit he wants to produce and while he is doing this can't control his army reasonably! In this the Zerg is probably the worst!


Zerg can be the best because of the obsurd amount of larva they can gather at hatcheries after being maxed. They can remax much faster than other races. I won't even comment about quequeing units in rax - just lol.
Si vis pacem para bellum
Reasonable
Profile Joined September 2010
Ukraine1432 Posts
August 25 2011 09:21 GMT
#2036
On the second thought, I kind of liked shorter barrack time build because it made terran attack hatchery first with marine/scvs, and I had such an excellent tactic to stop it ((
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
August 25 2011 09:21 GMT
#2037
On August 25 2011 18:17 Geisterkarle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 18:10 Brainiac wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:08 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:05 Brainiac wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:01 Tristy wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:00 Snowbear wrote:
On August 25 2011 18:00 Brainiac wrote:
Blizzard keeps fixing terran leaving them less and less options early game. I wonder when they are gonna fix the real problem - late game.


Indeed. Terran lategame is HORRIBLE, yet there are 0 fixes.

So I take it you ignored the HUUGE HSM buff then? that will be amazing for lategame.


Dude, the problem is obviosly not some flashy HSM which is useless, but terran macro machanics. Protoss can insta warp xx units + can chrono gates, zergs can spawn xx units from larva, terran doesn't such things. That's why they just can't keep up late game.


Make more rax. The cooldown on warpgate means it should be around the same production wise.



LOL. You forget the fact that after max/max situation toss can insta warp 30 units into a battlefield (proxy pylons) while terran still has to wait for units to be trained. Please, don't make ignorant statements like "make moar rax", it's so stupid.

Actually, if you are T and 200 and about to engage a battle, just fill the production line before and the units will pop out while you can concentrate on the battle and micro like hell ... while the protoss player has to click for every unit he wants to produce and while he is doing this can't control his army reasonably! In this the Zerg is probably the worst!

I don't think you have played T before did you?
You can't queue up units in production buildings when you're maxed. Hence you have to fill up production once you're not maxed anymore thus making your entire argument useless. So we can't micro like hell and concentrate on battle alone.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Severus_
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
759 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 09:22:46
August 25 2011 09:21 GMT
#2038
Not sure about some changes like the rax,hellion and immortal one. Others seems ok warp prism might be too strong now. They said how SC2 team spend months to perfect the hellion to have perfect dmg and perfect AoE and now they patched it ? Blizzard said how immortals had to be those buffy tanks (like zealots) and they will rework the unit now they buffed his range so its even far from that role lol. Also the blink change wtf I think PvP will become more 4gates and no more N-gate timing attacks vs Zerg or atleast not so fast. I don't see also why they nerf the rax timing really puzzles me I hope some of those don't make the live game.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
August 25 2011 09:22 GMT
#2039
On August 25 2011 18:21 Reasonable wrote:
On the second thought, I kind of liked shorter barrack time build because it made terran attack hatchery first with marine/scvs, and I had such an excellent tactic to stop it ((

Ukrainians and their tactics...

Merany
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France890 Posts
August 25 2011 09:22 GMT
#2040
Big patch, lots of changes so hard to predict anything without feedback from the PTR but at first sight, I really like the changes. Absolutely all of them make sense actually.

As for people saying the BFH is now useless, don't worry, you're still going to be able to rape mineral lines, it's just going to be slightly harder and it's a good thing.

Even if there was no direct nerf to 111, buff to Immortals and the nerf to barracks build time should help a bit.

Great job Blizzard.
Prev 1 100 101 102 103 104 453 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
08:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #21
CranKy Ducklings95
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE169
StarCraft: Brood War
Sharp 45
Bale 26
Dota 2
monkeys_forever548
NeuroSwarm209
League of Legends
Doublelift4022
Counter-Strike
taco 483
Other Games
summit1g7097
JimRising 497
C9.Mang0351
ToD87
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick715
BasetradeTV172
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 136
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP88
• poizon28 41
• davetesta27
• Adnapsc2 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra871
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
8h 31m
Rex vs INexorable
GgMaChine vs HeRoMaRinE
Reynor vs herO
Online Event
10h 31m
AI Arena Tournament
15h 31m
BSL: Ladder Tournament
17h 31m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 8h
Patches Events
1d 13h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 17h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 17h
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.