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Korea (South)1740 Posts
Although I'm a mostly terran user, I like to pick P against T. One of the most annoying strats that I always do poorly against when I'm playing a decent terran is the so-called "yangachi terran" (in Korean yangachi means something like "punk") and in English, I'm not sure if there is a term, but I'm sure you gosus know what I'm talking about.
The strat is to play normally until early/mid-game until the T safely secures natural, turtles with a few tank, turret mine then goes dropship + goli/tank to tank the expo on LT or any map with a cliff. Eventually three to four dropships (sometimes more) go around the map with vulture support to deny toss expos and in the meanwhile the Terran powers massively. Once he has 1/1 ups, he pushes out with a big blob.
Against newbies who just don't have confidence in their vulture micro, I can see how this is beat easily by expanding to mains, etc. However, against a good Terran I just am so annoyed by this strat (so annoyed that I never use it myself).
So...
What are the best counters?
And for terrans who like to use this strat, what is your biggest worry about counters by the toss?
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i generally dont include gols in drops and generally not more than 2-3 ships, but the same general style. biggest problem is if you cant get your harass to do anything. put obs absolutely everywhere, cannon all your minlines, and keep a decent amount of units on your cliffs. usually want 2 + shuttles with speed upgrade to reinforce cliffs as well. if you stop his harass you have a normal pvt, with a bit of an advantage because he'll be investing units in harass and will get his 2nd nat later.
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Yang a chi terran is counter by just countering his dropships. If he is not successful with those drops the protoss can exp safely. Just keep counting his dropships by scouting with obs and using 3+ shuttles. +_+. Go carriers. 케리어는 양아치테란한테 쥐약 ㅡㅡ;
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This is why I always go speed shuttle.
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ya basically u have to see it coming.
lots of obs all around terran, and if possible inside too, so u can see him massing dropships.
either pick off dropships before they get to cliffs or have units rdy to ferry up and try and have an ht at every expo.
mains are easier, just 2 cannons, 2 on either side of minerals, and units closeby.
if u catch one 2 shuttle drop u have a huge adv...
this strat might be annoying but its risky for the terran.
sometimes i even cover his dropship exit route with 2 cannons.
for example
hes 6 im 12 on LT
he has nat, i have nat and 3 main
i have units in the center to pick off dropships flying though. I have units pumping at 3 main, and if hes making a few dropships and i can afford it i make a few cannons in the 9 main to catch any break out drops.
spreading units across the map is key but u gotta be able to remass in the center again quickly if he tries to push.
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I find this annoying as well. Hopefully you can scout him building more than one dropship ahead of time. From there, you should be able to see when he leaves base, get speed/range obs (as discussed in a recent thread) to monitor dropship movements and move army to cut them off ahead of time. Get closest expansions first because I think taking distant expansions (like basing at 12 when you're 6 o clock protoss vs 9 o clock terran) is playing into his hands. Many dropships, especially with goliaths are a large gas investment, which means he won't have as many tanks or generally as many fighting units as is possible. So you can afford to put units on your natural's cliff not to let him take it. Losing it is a huge set back. Teching to storm and getting archon/zeal/temp shuttles is a good counter.
The ultimate answer is high tech air units like carriers and arbiters which really rape drops. While his coping abilities are more limited because the gas cost of many dropships will restrict his upgrading and goli/tank numbers... quite noticeably I think.
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High Templar with Psi Storm, control cliffs, deny expansions, mass, overwhelm.
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I call it the load and go toss. Its a strange but working style of toss who constanly makes shutlles en has 4+ every time a batlle took place. You can basicly play like this it will not fail if you use your units and units in the shuttles in the right way and location. This kinda style doesn't work against a slow pusher with turets all over the place (you could still try but it's way too hard). But it will counter the kind of terran you describe.
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Make sure your obs will see the drops coming, and have an equal number of shuttles, and preferably shuttle speed. Have storm, and a couple units reasy on your cliff(s) so that you buy yourself time to drops stuff. You could cannon your cliffs (I mean put cannons physically on the cliff, but that would be expensive).
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I wish I had the multitasking ability to play that way. 
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Yeah, this build is really fucking annoying.
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obs everywhere and 4-5 speed shuttles while expanding all over
eventually carriers but don't make the switch too early, you'll lose your expands and get overrun right after
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United States2766 Posts
Good map control, a few shuttles, and storm are the keys here. Storm is ridiculously effective against Terrans who don't space their units properly, and a dropship Terran is going to have all of his units in one blob when dropping. Beyond that, a few units and a couple of high templar can defend an expansion from a pretty damn big drop while still allowing you to keep your main army in good position to combat a push.
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storm is good but watch out that you're not overteching, many shuttles + speed + storm is alot of units missing, always keep an eye on his army somehow with your observers and make sure you have the units to beat it straight up if he ever decided to move out
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first of all see it coming so you can remember this thread and follow the (unusually high quality!) advice posted in it.. maybe observer sight range after you expand and use the observer in his base so you can see him building a starport/dropships or lots of turrets (if there are so many turrets that you can't manoeuver your observer, assume starport+ships, even if you are wrong the turrets hurt him so bad that you are still ahead)
some info from the terran point of view because i have nothing to add from the P side:
mind that you can get away with this tech (4 speed shuttles if you're gonna follow naz) because the terran's macro is getting hurt bad by building a starport / dropships possibly even goliaths
also any terran who is playing this style will be willing to sacrifice units to kill probes (i'm thinking vulture raids, dropped tanks killing some probes and dying right after)
these 2 reasons also mean you can get away with cannons, as your army size will still be good enough
I also kind of like the psy storm way because it's impossible to multitask terran so hard that you could slowpush and harass everywhere at the same time, which means that the terran will only start pushing much later. This means that he'll have to ignore slow pushing alltogether and attack the nada way (unsiege everything, attack move, siege everything, repeat) and the nada way is very weak against storm
however, I don't know if it's possible to secure your cliffs if you don't get multiple shuttles.. maybe you can get away with it by putting some goons on your cliff in advance and leaving your filled shuttle hovering over your cliff?
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Rofl I always thought of Yangachi as the equivalent of ' fag ' [ Not in the gay sense ] or ' annoying ' in English.
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Agreed, but DO not make the mistake of going to quickly with the speed shuttle upgrade, make sure you get leg speed first. Even if you go more than 1 shuttle and use zeals in the shuttles, you will be at a severe disadvantage if he starts pushing out.
Many players will only go 2 dropship nada style, I don't believe this warrants getting speed shuttle becuase the major threat also includes vultures (he has so many options like ferry 8 vults + 4 tanks onto cliff, use tanks to take out cannons, use vultures to kill probes, double pronged attack on two expos, etc).
Don't get frustrated and waste all your units in a counterattack - you will die. Just try to keep 1-2 bases ahead of him and then make the switch (prefer arbiter becuase its less "timing" oriented [if you go say, 3 gate carrier without a CLEAR advantage the game is still for his taking [especially becuase he has ups + armory already, where he might have enough gas to build a sci facility and vessel]).
DO get Obs speed and monitor islands and his "half" side of the expansions (if you are 3 he is 6, patrol an obs between 9 main and top left island, etc).
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cliff terrans are the easiest to beat ;d i dont even play toss but ive never really had a problem with it at all, same with island pvt. Gols suck period, just keep a few units on your cliff like 4 goons 2-4 zeals and then drop with like 2-3 shuttles or more withs peed if you feel like you need to and have obs ;d
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
expand a lot to other mains that terran can't cliff drop and have storm and go arbiters
fuck carriers and shuttles, they will cause ur army to be way too small and leave u with weakpoints
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EPT
