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The Falklands or las Malvinas? - Page 7

Forum Index > Closed
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FenneK
Profile Joined November 2010
France1231 Posts
June 17 2011 09:16 GMT
#121
might aswell be british, the argentinians hold no legitimate claim to the islands whatsoever
good luck have batman
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 17 2011 09:20 GMT
#122
While KwarK is arguing brilliantly, I believe the Argentinian poster to be correct. An election is approaching and all of this is just irresponsible saber rattling to appear strong before the Argentinian people. I hope the current PM loses the election, this kind of politicial maneuvering can cause wars.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
June 17 2011 09:22 GMT
#123
Whenever poiliticians bring up bullshit like this like the Argentinian President in this case they probably have major national problems that they try to divert from. Falklands are obviously British.
Deleuze
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom2102 Posts
June 17 2011 11:38 GMT
#124
Oh dear there are some proper crimes against Philosophy going on here!

OT: I had a very similar topic of discussion with an Argentinian friend. She explained to me that all her friends and family told her never to tell anyone she was Argentinian while she was in the UK because of the Falklands/las Malvinas. Having known her for nearly a year I had completely forgotten that our two countries were once at war!

I kind of felt that the Falklands/las Malvinas were in a very distant part of the national consciousness (whatever that may be...) and simply didn't matter to us. I felt that people in the UK probably don't really think/talk about them unless the Argentinian President brings it up or England play Argentinia (and then they're more likely to bring up Maradona I'm sure). Whereas in Argentinia I'm sure are a regular topic of discussion.

It was saddening to realise that a conflict where so many people lost their lives or were injured was so distant both conceptually and geographically.

But I agree was vierws expressed earlier in this thread, that this is clearly saber rattling and galvanising support through nationalistic sentiments in lieu of the forthcoming election. From what I hear Argentina isn't the greatest place to live - apparently they have run out or coins at the moment as there poor economy doesn't permit them to make any more.
“An image of thought called philosophy has been formed historically and it effectively stops people from thinking.” ― Gilles Deleuze, Dialogues II
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44027 Posts
June 17 2011 11:54 GMT
#125
On June 17 2011 15:29 Mephiztopheles1 wrote:
the island was under Spanish jurisdiction and according to this little small thing called "right of succession", I know, something the british never concerned themselves with (why would they, they were bound to be the next empire), this piece of land is inherited by that country which later claimed independence and was the closest to the island called Provincias del Río de la Plata, later to be named Argentina.

What's the geographic limit of the right of succession? Why is it that the Falklands (islands far, far outside Argentina's territorial waters) should naturally fall to Argentina after the defeat of Spain? At the time of the war of American independence Ireland was an English colony. America successfully defeated England, does that give her the right to claim ownership of the Republic of Ireland today against the wishes of the native inhabitants?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 17 2011 12:00 GMT
#126
That's the real message right at the end KwarK. "...the wishes of the native inhabitants.."

IF the Falklands wanted to be under the rule of Argentina or completely independent, they would voice it. Argentina needs to hush.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Madoga
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands471 Posts
June 17 2011 12:11 GMT
#127
Lots of nonsense and non issues in this thread.

The people want to stay part of the UK, so it stays part of the UK. Simple as that, just like the british prime minister said.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10896 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-17 12:28:55
June 17 2011 12:28 GMT
#128
Clearly these Islands should go to a Neutral country to stop all this back and fourth fighting.

I herebye declare them as Swiss property! Our navy (damn ) will take em as soon as we built the Ships to do so.
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
June 17 2011 13:39 GMT
#129
When there's an international land dispute, no better place to go than Teamliquid to solve it.

Next up: Tibet and Kashmir!
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Vinland
Profile Joined April 2011
Argentina136 Posts
June 17 2011 14:05 GMT
#130
On June 17 2011 21:28 Velr wrote:
Clearly these Islands should go to a Neutral country to stop all this back and fourth fighting.

I herebye declare them as Swiss property! Our navy (damn ) will take em as soon as we built the Ships to do so.

I think no one would ever complain about having an island 200km close to your country full of fine swiss women.

(But then again, they always find a way :[ )
TossRage
Profile Joined October 2008
9 Posts
June 17 2011 15:18 GMT
#131
On June 17 2011 11:12 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 11:09 Carras wrote:
after defeating spain , there was an argentian mission that populated the islands ,in 1833 british invaded, and the argentinians there left becouse they were in no situation to hold the islands against a battle ship.

the islands are clos to argentina (480km , maybe its 300 miles) wich is close enough by international law standars, it is also geographically in continuity with the argentinian continental platform (wich is also imporrtant by international law) ,

Holding sth ilegaly for 200 years doesnt make it yours.

Brits were on the island long before that Argentine mission. They were on the island long before Argentina existed. When they found the island nobody lived there.

Territorial waters are 12 miles. Look it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters


read further
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters#Continental_shelf
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44027 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-17 15:22:18
June 17 2011 15:20 GMT
#132
On June 18 2011 00:18 TossRage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 11:12 KwarK wrote:
On June 17 2011 11:09 Carras wrote:
after defeating spain , there was an argentian mission that populated the islands ,in 1833 british invaded, and the argentinians there left becouse they were in no situation to hold the islands against a battle ship.

the islands are clos to argentina (480km , maybe its 300 miles) wich is close enough by international law standars, it is also geographically in continuity with the argentinian continental platform (wich is also imporrtant by international law) ,

Holding sth ilegaly for 200 years doesnt make it yours.

Brits were on the island long before that Argentine mission. They were on the island long before Argentina existed. When they found the island nobody lived there.

Territorial waters are 12 miles. Look it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters


read further
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters#Continental_shelf

Read further
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters#Continental_shelf

Countries were supposed to lodge their submissions to extend their continental shelf beyond 200 nautical miles within 10 years of UNCLOS coming into force in the country, or by 13 May 2009 for countries where the convention had come into force before 13 May 1999. As of 1 June 2009, 51 submissions have been lodged with the Commission, of which 8 have been deliberated by the Commission and have had recommendations issued. The 8 are (in the order of date of submission): Russian Federation; Brazil; Australia; Ireland; New Zealand; the joint submission by France, Ireland, Spain and the United Kingdom; Norway and Mexico.


They're not within 200 nautical miles either.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
TossRage
Profile Joined October 2008
9 Posts
June 17 2011 15:29 GMT
#133
On June 17 2011 11:43 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 11:41 Carras wrote:
Britain had no legitimate rigth to occupy the islands in 1766 in the first place. Spain had, hence when Argentina frees itself from spain , takes ALL their american territories (ilegally occuppied or not ^^ )

Why stop at American territories? Why not claim Spain? Why not the whole world?
You can't just claim places. Britain defeated Argentina in the Falklands War and you don't see us claiming the Argentinian mainland. Have the decency to treat us as respectfully as we treat you.


respect..... as in respectfully attack some country OUTSIDE the exclusion zone ?
Really easy to be respectfull that way, in a war the other side of the world, with a weak country, with nothing to lose.
Svetz
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia311 Posts
June 17 2011 15:53 GMT
#134
@Tossrage
Did you create a new account just to get owned by Kwark in one of the most humerous cases of reading the article your quoting so far today!

Also your second comment doesn't even make any sense? Argentina invaded the falklands not the other way around...

When I grow up I want to be Harry Dresden ;(
jeppew
Profile Joined April 2009
Sweden471 Posts
June 17 2011 15:58 GMT
#135
I don't see how anyone can argue on behalf of the Argentinian claim when the people who live on the islands are, and wish to remain, Brittish. And this isn't a military occupation of foreign soil, they have lived there for centuries, so i'd say that the wishes of the people who actually live on the islands are the only thing that matters on this issue.
Aristodemus
Profile Joined January 2011
England2010 Posts
June 17 2011 16:00 GMT
#136
On June 18 2011 00:29 TossRage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 11:43 KwarK wrote:
On June 17 2011 11:41 Carras wrote:
Britain had no legitimate rigth to occupy the islands in 1766 in the first place. Spain had, hence when Argentina frees itself from spain , takes ALL their american territories (ilegally occuppied or not ^^ )

Why stop at American territories? Why not claim Spain? Why not the whole world?
You can't just claim places. Britain defeated Argentina in the Falklands War and you don't see us claiming the Argentinian mainland. Have the decency to treat us as respectfully as we treat you.


respect..... as in respectfully attack some country OUTSIDE the exclusion zone ?
Really easy to be respectfull that way, in a war the other side of the world, with a weak country, with nothing to lose.


You were already attacking us, and our submarines could not follow you any further. A decision had to be made, and we made the correct decision. Argentina were the aggressor in this war, do not forget that.
once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
TossRage
Profile Joined October 2008
9 Posts
June 17 2011 16:11 GMT
#137
On June 17 2011 15:44 Sanctimonius wrote:
That is a very detailed post with lots of historical details in it. Still doesn't do anything to deal with the situation of today - the islands are populated by people who have been there for nearly two centuries, who speak English and consider themselves British.

Any claim from Argentina has to take them into account, they can't just be ignored. As others have said if the situation changes and the islands vote to join Argentina, then fair enough. But they have chosen time and again to remain British.


You can only choose from options presented to you.
Who do you think shapes the options for the islanders? WTF, aren't we being a little naive?
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
June 17 2011 16:13 GMT
#138
Pretty sure this hasn't been mentioned yet.

I had some friends in college who debated this rather passionately. I personally feel that the island's residents should have their own self-determination, whatever that would be.

That said, here's my favorite thing about the conflict: on the islands, there is a massive British air force base, colloquially known as the "Death Star" on account of it's fucking huge. IMO, the US should control anything which people call a Death Star, otherwise we're not doing the Empire thing very well at all, are we?
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
TossRage
Profile Joined October 2008
9 Posts
June 17 2011 16:15 GMT
#139
On June 17 2011 20:38 Deleuze wrote:
Oh dear there are some proper crimes against Philosophy going on here!

OT: I had a very similar topic of discussion with an Argentinian friend. She explained to me that all her friends and family told her never to tell anyone she was Argentinian while she was in the UK because of the Falklands/las Malvinas. Having known her for nearly a year I had completely forgotten that our two countries were once at war!

I kind of felt that the Falklands/las Malvinas were in a very distant part of the national consciousness (whatever that may be...) and simply didn't matter to us. I felt that people in the UK probably don't really think/talk about them unless the Argentinian President brings it up or England play Argentinia (and then they're more likely to bring up Maradona I'm sure). Whereas in Argentinia I'm sure are a regular topic of discussion.

It was saddening to realise that a conflict where so many people lost their lives or were injured was so distant both conceptually and geographically.

But I agree was vierws expressed earlier in this thread, that this is clearly saber rattling and galvanising support through nationalistic sentiments in lieu of the forthcoming election. From what I hear Argentina isn't the greatest place to live - apparently they have run out or coins at the moment as there poor economy doesn't permit them to make any more.


Yeah, and there are dragons there too !!
TossRage
Profile Joined October 2008
9 Posts
June 17 2011 16:22 GMT
#140
On June 18 2011 00:53 Svetz wrote:
@Tossrage
Did you create a new account just to get owned by Kwark in one of the most humerous cases of reading the article your quoting so far today!

Also your second comment doesn't even make any sense? Argentina invaded the falklands not the other way around...



Of course, that little dirty detail finds its way to get lose.
When in a modern war conflict, there is this thing called "exclusion zone".
That is the only space where the war and agression will be displayed.

Being as UK uses de allmighty IMPERIAL unit system, one can understand why they would extend the agression outside these limits. Respect.
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