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On February 10 2012 09:56 KoveN- wrote:
Haha oh god..
You're meant to be a super community student right? I thought you guys didn't believe looks were everything? haha in fact in your minds, if some big fat ugly dude gets a hottie, because of his "super tight game" he's the man, right?
Oh looks definitely do matter. Are you crazy? People who say looks don't matter are bullshitting you. Its just a marketing scam. Now... it doesn't mean you cant make up for it with great game, but looks matters quite a bit.
On February 10 2012 09:56 KoveN- wrote:
For me. I get sex from a girl that I like
.
I stopped reading right here.
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On February 10 2012 09:56 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 17:54 KoveN- wrote:You know when girls say "just be yourself"? Yeh, that's not bullshit, it's true. The community says differently but that's just because they want to sell you products. "Be yourself" is absolutely bullshit. It's obviously fine if you're a natural or otherwise doing well already, but imagine how pointless it is to tell an awkward overweight nerd to be himself. Girls have a subconscious interest in telling you to "be yourself": they want to have an easier time discerning who the naturals are because those are the ones who they would like to reproduce with. Given how women rant and rave about how annoying it is that men are clueless when it comes to dating, you would think that they would appreciate PUAs giving awkward guys a clue. But in reality, many women feel very threatened by pick-up, which is bullshit given just how much women's magazines and other media effectively teach them "game" for girls. It's actually quite ironic vitriol that women (particularly feminists) spew against PUAs, given that make-up/push-up bras/heels/plastic surgery are all far more deceptive than actually changing yourself for the better. If someone was a Starcraft noob, would you tell him to be himself and keep playing like a noob? Or would you tell him to learn build orders, study the game, and improve? At first, yes, he'll be faking it, but eventually those new concepts will become second nature to him and he'll become a better gamer. In other words, "fake it 'til you make it" AKA learning.
Do I sense some frustration towards women?
Another thing that's rampant in the community.
If you asked a bunch of community guys what they really thought about women, you would quickly see why
1. they are in the community in the first place.
2. why they have trouble getting laid and;
3. why they have trouble finding a fulfilling relationship.
Sorry mate but women are nothing like starcraft
if they were this site would be getting laid like rockstars and everyone knows that's not that case.
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On February 10 2012 10:06 KoveN- wrote:
Sorry mate but women are nothing like starcraft
You're right. Starcraft is much harder. I played over 10,000 games of Starcraft and I'm only above average. Talking to 10,000 women, well you'll be a modern day Casanova.
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On February 10 2012 10:06 KoveN- wrote:Do I sense some frustration towards women?
Not at all. I love women quite a lot. :D However, I also have a keen sense for bullshit. And while I have nothing against makeup/heels/push-up bras/plastic surgery (and in fact, have quite some appreciation for them), I can easily point out the blatant hypocrisy of perpetuating that while hating on game.
On February 10 2012 10:06 KoveN- wrote:Sorry mate but women are nothing like starcraft
Are you trolling, or too stupid to understand what an analogy is?
Seduction is a skill. Like any other skill, some people naturally have some natural aptitude while others do not. However, just like any other skill, it can be developed through practice.
Also, good to know that you are incapable of actually arguing against my main point. If you have to resort to ad hominems, then it's pretty obvious that you don't have any substance to argue with.
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On February 10 2012 10:06 KoveN- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 09:56 sunprince wrote:On February 09 2012 17:54 KoveN- wrote:You know when girls say "just be yourself"? Yeh, that's not bullshit, it's true. The community says differently but that's just because they want to sell you products. "Be yourself" is absolutely bullshit. It's obviously fine if you're a natural or otherwise doing well already, but imagine how pointless it is to tell an awkward overweight nerd to be himself. Girls have a subconscious interest in telling you to "be yourself": they want to have an easier time discerning who the naturals are because those are the ones who they would like to reproduce with. Given how women rant and rave about how annoying it is that men are clueless when it comes to dating, you would think that they would appreciate PUAs giving awkward guys a clue. But in reality, many women feel very threatened by pick-up, which is bullshit given just how much women's magazines and other media effectively teach them "game" for girls. It's actually quite ironic vitriol that women (particularly feminists) spew against PUAs, given that make-up/push-up bras/heels/plastic surgery are all far more deceptive than actually changing yourself for the better. If someone was a Starcraft noob, would you tell him to be himself and keep playing like a noob? Or would you tell him to learn build orders, study the game, and improve? At first, yes, he'll be faking it, but eventually those new concepts will become second nature to him and he'll become a better gamer. In other words, "fake it 'til you make it" AKA learning. Do I sense some frustration towards women? Another thing that's rampant in the community. If you asked a bunch of community guys what they really thought about women, you would quickly see why 1. they are in the community in the first place. 2. why they have trouble getting laid and; 3. why they have trouble finding a fulfilling relationship. Sorry mate but women are nothing like starcraft if they were this site would be getting laid like rockstars and everyone knows that's not that case.
For any socially awkward penguin, or asian (not trying to be racist, but I've seen asians have it a lot harder) who actually wants to be able to talk to women, PUA is totally worth it. Even for those who are good looking and are good naturally, it definitely refines the edges in your social ability. Being yourself won't work unless you are naturally good to begin with. Some women are the least bit encouraging and will blow certain guys off the minute they open their mouth, PUA will help you break this barrier.
Learning anything is exactly like learning Starcraft, this includes social skills. If have a lot of set knowledge that you can practise with in the beginning, you will achieve much better results to begin with and greatly boost your confidence. If you could mass 1-3 hours of pickup a day for a year you would be amazingly good no matter how bad you were to begin with.
Problem is most people don't have the motivation nor the confidence to "mass game" women. I don't see much value in PUA myself, but I can definitely see how useful it can be for other people.
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To Sunprince:
No need to get upset mate.
The reason I didn't answer your "point" was because I have already answered it twice in this thread and am not going to go over it again.
Being good with women is not a skill.
If it was, how did all the men before Pickup get laid?
Afterall it was pickup that started the whole trend about being good with women is a skill you must learn and refine.
Why is that do you think?
Could it be becuase they want you to buy their guide book?
and if you're gonna say "derp they just used natural game and taught themselves the same concepts that the community books teach" then you have no hope of ever getting abundance with women.
There is no skill. There is just you.
Girls fall in love with you. Not your "skill" with them.
Maybe I should get some girls in here to give their 2cents?
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Koven, I date elves, you mad?
![[image loading]](http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6107/6271593484_521854318e.jpg)
Post pics of you and your girlfriend holding a paper with the word "Koven". Pics or it didn't happen.
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You have your arm around a female.. is that impressive for you?
I hope you feel validated that you have a girl next to you.
Good for you!
Perfect example of the validation game I've been talking about.
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On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:If it was, how did all the men before Pickup get laid?
The PUA community was not the first to practice seduction. Seduction is as old as mankind. Just because the PUA community are the modern experts on it doesn't mean they're the only way to learn. You can just as easily learn on your own or from other people.
People knew how to play Starcraft before teamliquid came around. What teamliquid did was allow people to share and consolidate their ideas. Obviously, there were good Starcraft players before teamliquid.
On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Afterall it was pickup that started the whole trend about being good with women is a skill you must learn and refine.
No, it isn't. For thousands of years seduction has been taught as a skill. Aristocrats of various societies hired tutors to teach them or their children in the arts of love. For example, the courtesans of Europe frequently served in this capacity for young princes. Even within the modern context, dating advice is nothing new. Pickup is simply a more refined, less politically correct version of dating advice in the digital age. And as noted, women give each other dating advice all the time.
On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Could it be becuase they want you to buy their guide book?
I certainly don't sell a guide book, nor do most PUAs. What you say may be true for some, but it's a ridiculous assertion to apply to all when so much knowledge is available online for free.
On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:There is no skill. There is just you.
Bullshit. People who don't understand math (e.g. plenty of Americans) also say that math skills are something you're either born with or not. There was a study that showed this was why Asians do so much better at math, because they're socialized to understand that it's a learned skill. Same principle applies here: you don't think it's a skill because you don't understand it. Seduction is a type of social skill, so unless you're insisting that social skills don't exist either, you're not making any sense.
On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Girls fall in love with you. Not your "skill" with them.
Look, if you're seriously confused by terminology, then just think of pick-up skills as social skills (they're actually a subset, but that's close enough for our purposes). Girls don't fall in love with your social skills, but having social skills make it easier to find love. Get it?
On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Just out of curiosity, do you get much sex or have a girlfriend? You can PM me if you like.
Try actually reading some of my damn posts in the thread. Regardless, this is an ad hominem trap. If the answer is "no", then you're gonna claim that someone doesn't know what they're talking about. If the answer is "yes", then you're gonna claim that someone is seeking validation. Nice try, but no.
On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Maybe I should get some girls in here to give their 2cents?
Why exactly do you think a girl would know anything about how men seduce women? Are you seriously that naive?
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Hey as long as your happy go for it mate!
Wish you all the best ay 
I've spent too much energy on this thread already and it's not goin' anywhere so
glhf. peace 
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On February 10 2012 11:03 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:If it was, how did all the men before Pickup get laid? The PUA community was not the first to practice seduction. Seduction is as old as mankind. Just because the PUA community are the modern experts on it doesn't mean they're the only way to learn. You can just as easily learn on your own or from other people. People knew how to play Starcraft before teamliquid came around. What teamliquid did was allow people to share and consolidate their ideas. Obviously, there were good Starcraft players before teamliquid. Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Afterall it was pickup that started the whole trend about being good with women is a skill you must learn and refine. No, it isn't. For thousands of years seduction has been taught as a skill. Aristocrats of various societies hired tutors to teach them or their children in the arts of love. For example, the courtesans of Europe frequently served in this capacity for young princes. Even within the modern context, dating advice is nothing new. Pickup is simply a more refined, less politically correct version of dating advice in the digital age. And as noted, women give each other dating advice all the time. Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Could it be becuase they want you to buy their guide book? I certainly don't sell a guide book, nor do most PUAs. What you say may be true for some, but it's a ridiculous assertion to apply to all when so much knowledge is available online for free. Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:There is no skill. There is just you. Bullshit. People who don't understand math (e.g. plenty of Americans) also say that math skills are something you're either born with or not. There was a study that showed this was why Asians do so much better at math, because they're socialized to understand that it's a learned skill. Same principle applies here: you don't think it's a skill because you don't understand it. Seduction is a type of social skill, so unless you're insisting that social skills don't exist either, you're not making any sense. Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Girls fall in love with you. Not your "skill" with them. Look, if you're seriously confused by terminology, then just think of pick-up skills as social skills (they're actually a subset, but that's close enough for our purposes). Girls don't fall in love with your social skills, but having social skills make it easier to find love. Get it? Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Just out of curiosity, do you get much sex or have a girlfriend? You can PM me if you like. Try actually reading some of my damn posts in the thread. Regardless, this is an ad hominem trap. If the answer is "no", then you're gonna claim that someone doesn't know what they're talking about. If the answer is "yes", then you're gonna claim that someone is seeking validation. Nice try, but no. Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 10:44 KoveN- wrote:Maybe I should get some girls in here to give their 2cents? Why exactly do you think a girl would know anything about how men seduce women? Are you seriously that naive?
Really intelligent responses.
I'm not part of any PUA community of lair or anything, but I certainly give my friends social and lady seducing advice and I'm sure men of been teaching each other how to get laid for ever.
Really this thread is my only experience with the PUA community. I really like the aspects that involve improving self confidence and learning social skills. But I really dislike the almost caricature like alpha male persona some of you apparently embrace (I seriously must have read " I have a body like thor" a hundred times in this thread.... from the same person. Is there nothing else you have to be proud of?)
Overall I'm all for anything that gets guys talking to girls. Some of my friends basically refuse to do so and it drives me mad... idn I've always loved talking to girls in social settings, its always been like a game sorta for me, very fun.
just a random outside observers thoughts ^^
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On February 10 2012 09:56 sunprince wrote:
"Be yourself" is absolutely bullshit. It's obviously fine if you're a natural or otherwise doing well already, but imagine how pointless it is to tell an awkward overweight nerd to be himself.
Girls have a subconscious interest in telling you to "be yourself": they want to have an easier time discerning who the naturals are because those are the ones who they would like to reproduce with. Given how women rant and rave about how annoying it is that men are clueless when it comes to dating, you would think that they would appreciate PUAs giving awkward guys a clue. But in reality, many women feel very threatened by pick-up, which is bullshit given just how much women's magazines and other media effectively teach them "game" for girls. It's actually quite ironic vitriol that women (particularly feminists) spew against PUAs, given that make-up/push-up bras/heels/plastic surgery are all far more deceptive than actually changing yourself for the better.
If someone was a Starcraft noob, would you tell him to be himself and keep playing like a noob? Or would you tell him to learn build orders, study the game, and improve? At first, yes, he'll be faking it, but eventually those new concepts will become second nature to him and he'll become a better gamer. In other words, "fake it 'til you make it" AKA learning.
Being yourself isn't bullshit, it's the way it is phrased and what people do and don't take away from it. Be yourself, how it should be taken, is to develop yourself to the best of your ability. Don't be another damn person. Dare to fucking dream, instead of being stuck in a mediocre life. The problem with be yourself? Many people are at a mediocre life, or less. They are barely knowledgeable on their "passions" if it involves even an ounce of effort.
How many people do you know who claim they are passionate about say lifting, but don't know proper squat form, don't know the benefits of vitamin D or fish oil, and believe either carbs or fats are the devil?
How many people are really giving it their all to be something? Many gamers visit this forum. How many of them do you think have took steps to being more than just another gaming and getting involved; being a caster or something comes to mind. Those that do don't bug the shit out of Day9 to co-host or something to get their name on their plate. No, they're scared. Mediocre lives await those who sit.
Furthermore, be your best self requires introspection that many people just aren't fucking capable of. Too many people are unwilling to admit truths to themselves, they are stuck in a sunk cost fallacy (look it up) to the point where they can't better themselves as much as they try. Maybe that is why some people do nothing but approach; they are scared of opening themselves completely to another person. And that may be because they can't open themselves up to themselves.
I was stuck in this position for a long ass time; unwilling to admit truths to myself so I could protect myself. And when I finally started to, it completely destroyed my identity. There are three books (so far) that have been responsible for this, and I treasure them. Did those days when I came to this realization suck? Yeah. 20 years of what I perceived to be my identity gone in a few days. I was a mess man. Hell, I'd even say PUA was a part of it. But PUA was also the part that started this journey, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
It's been a few weeks since I had this happen, and I've only found one... what I think of as pillars to my identity that I've truly discovered (that being respect). There haven't really been any others so far, but they're being built brick by brick. If it took 20 years to build what I had, I don't expect this stuff to come back over night.
Being yourself takes more courage and energy than more people are willing to give, even think about giving.
That being said, I completely disagree with your statement about how girls say be yourself so they can discern the naturals. They say be yourself because they have your best interest at heart. They just don't say it right. If you believe otherwise, I think you have some beliefs that you really need to get checked out and fixed. Humans are such sympathetic creatures, and for the most part, we are looking out for each other. Just because we can't correctly articulate that doesn't make them some manipulative bitch.
I do agree with the fake it till you make to a certain extent. That is, as long as it suits your style. You don't want a zerg lover playing protoss, that's for sure. I, for one, was trying to fake it till I make it, and failed horribly. This is because I was adopting what PUA wanted me to be, what I thought people on forums would want me to be. I was seeking validation, and didn't even fucking know it man. All because I was told fake it till I make it, but not in my own style. It completely fucked me up for awhile, and I've started having a good time again.
----
My steps have been small, but these are steps I've been proud of.
- Was talking to a chick in my biology class. She's in my group, but I never sit by her so we don't talk. Basically, she was saying how she was going to be a teacher and stuff for middle school, and how she could totally be a slutty but hot teacher. I agreed with her, and we started cracking jokes about it. I had a split second of doubt against saying it, but I said fuck my fears and said of it. I'm proud of it.
-I complimented a chick on her some highlight thing she had in her hair that I genuinely thought was fucking awesome. Did she respond how I wanted? Nah, just a quick oh thanks and went on. But I gave a compliment, didn't expect anything in return, and got exactly what happened. I didn't stress she didn't respond how I wanted. I'm proud of it.
-Forced myself to stay somewhere and make it fun, when normally I'd just bounce. Realized that most girls reciprocate when I touch, because I finally ran into one that didn't. Now I know what the difference is. These two are pretty minor
Anyways, that's my two cents.
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On February 10 2012 11:59 Catch wrote:Being yourself isn't bullshit, it's the way it is phrased and what people do and don't take away from it. Be yourself, how it should be taken, is to develop yourself to the best of your ability. Don't be another damn person. Dare to fucking dream, instead of being stuck in a mediocre life. The problem with be yourself? Many people are at a mediocre life, or less. They are barely knowledgeable on their "passions" if it involves even an ounce of effort.
I don't disagree that you should be an individual. But most of the time, when someone says "be yourself" what they really mean is "don't change".
On February 10 2012 11:59 Catch wrote:Furthermore, be your best self requires introspection that many people just aren't fucking capable of.
I agree with "be your best self" wholeheartedly. I think that's a far better phrase to use than "be yourself".
On February 10 2012 11:59 Catch wrote:That being said, I completely disagree with your statement about how girls say be yourself so they can discern the naturals. They say be yourself because they have your best interest at heart. They just don't say it right. If you believe otherwise, I think you have some beliefs that you really need to get checked out and fixed. Humans are such sympathetic creatures, and for the most part, we are looking out for each other. Just because we can't correctly articulate that doesn't make them some manipulative bitch.
Many (but obviously not all) women feel offended, violated, or cheated when they discover that a guy has pickup training (for an example of common reactions, see the film "Hitch"). This isn't in any way limited to women; I pointed out in a previous post that men react similarly negatively when they discover that a woman they've been seeing is far less attractive without makeup or has had plastic surgery. The PUA community takes a shit-ton of flak from men and women for teaching guys to be "fake" or something like that. I'm not calling any man or woman a manipulative bitch here, but the reality is that it's a very natural reaction for people to reject people changing for the better. It's part of the reason why society scorns hard work ("you're a try-hard!") and prefers naturals at everything.
So while I don't think girls consciously try to manipulate people to find the naturals, their general dislike of people with pickup training (mirrored by men's dislike of plastic surgery, etc.) is rooted in that deeper desire.
On February 10 2012 11:59 Catch wrote:I do agree with the fake it till you make to a certain extent. That is, as long as it suits your style. You don't want a zerg lover playing protoss, that's for sure. I, for one, was trying to fake it till I make it, and failed horribly. This is because I was adopting what PUA wanted me to be, what I thought people on forums would want me to be. I was seeking validation, and didn't even fucking know it man. All because I was told fake it till I make it, but not in my own style. It completely fucked me up for awhile, and I've started having a good time again.
I completely agree that you should figure out what works for you. The pickup community's roots are centered around hook-ups and one-night stands, but personally I prefer MLTRs, so I've tuned my game towards that purpose. Pickup is a tool; nothing more, and everyone has different styles and uses for their tools. Hell, there's even a blog about how to game your own wife so that you can have a sexier marriage.
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On February 10 2012 11:24 stokes17 wrote:But I really dislike the almost caricature like alpha male persona some of you apparently embrace (I seriously must have read " I have a body like thor" a hundred times in this thread.... from the same person. Is there nothing else you have to be proud of?)
Heh. Squattincasanova has been a major contributor to this thread, and while he has brought plenty of interesting content, he also is in the intermediate learning phase where he's seeking validation to some extent, in order to get some feedback on his progress. Yes, he's a little bit too repetitive about his body, but it probably really is a key asset for him, and when intermediate PUAs are developing they sometimes cling a bit too strongly to a limited few strengths (think how Platinum to Diamond players have a tendency to overuse one build, but get over it as they improve).
On February 10 2012 11:24 stokes17 wrote:Overall I'm all for anything that gets guys talking to girls. Some of my friends basically refuse to do so and it drives me mad... idn I've always loved talking to girls in social settings, its always been like a game sorta for me, very fun.
To be fair to your friends, games are less fun if you're really bad at them and lose constantly. If someone gets constantly owned in ladder, it's a natural reaction to ragequit. So while I think it's absolutely critical for your friends to make an effort to keep talking to girls, it's also understandable why they might think it's a lot less fun than you or I do. That's where learning some new ideas on seduction can come in handy, because then they can at least be approaching each encounter with some idea how to improve.
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My steps have been small, but these are steps I've been proud of.
- Was talking to a chick in my biology class. She's in my group, but I never sit by her so we don't talk. Basically, she was saying how she was going to be a teacher and stuff for middle school, and how she could totally be a slutty but hot teacher. I agreed with her, and we started cracking jokes about it. I had a split second of doubt against saying it, but I said fuck my fears and said of it. I'm proud of it.
-I complimented a chick on her some highlight thing she had in her hair that I genuinely thought was fucking awesome. Did she respond how I wanted? Nah, just a quick oh thanks and went on. But I gave a compliment, didn't expect anything in return, and got exactly what happened. I didn't stress she didn't respond how I wanted. I'm proud of it.
-Forced myself to stay somewhere and make it fun, when normally I'd just bounce. Realized that most girls reciprocate when I touch, because I finally ran into one that didn't. Now I know what the difference is. These two are pretty minor
I'm proud of you too  . I don't know if you care more about being social or more about girls, but it's always great to just try and be more social as it's a great thing to improve on. I go to a half-oriental univ. that is known statewide for being notoriously anti-social, and it isn't false. It sometimes get a bit discouraging when you talk to people, and some people, guys and girls, are already feeling awkward being confronted by a stranger with no association with them (not even same course or something), but even further by someone with a mature or "manly" demeanor, voice, and way of doing things. I sometimes talk to friends that I meet and talk to people and they find it strange. Then I remind them how the heck I met most of them. It wasn't in some class, not a student org., not friend of a friend. No association at all. Just raw meeting people outside of their (and my own) comfort zone.
IMO, I've been gradually improving the past month and a half in this "I'll meet and talk to random strangers not in a club/party environment" scheme, because it's something that isn't easy. It's different from say a college party where people are in a good mood and are there TO meet and talk with people lol. I'm proud, and i'm glad that you're proud .
Btw, one of the better things you can do in regards to girls is work out. Look into SL5x5 or Starting Strength. I hate myself for only having found out about SS like 3-4 weeks ago. When I was 14 and really athletic and didn't actually care about girls so much, they made me care about them. Then I took a fracture in the spine which put me out of athletic commission for quite some time, along with another thing around 17-ish. Atm I'm in the process of getting it back. But seriously, physique can make a huge difference. It's the difference of talking to a girl and she being meh even if she's telling you that you're really funny, and talking to a girl and her being interested even if you're ... talking about your Halo feats (that was a fun social experiment). The point I'm trying to make is that it makes your chances significantly better, because it is significant, and unless you're going after the super sexy supermodel look-a-likes that are extremely, extremely selective like Squattin does, your chances will be exponentially higher. That said, I'm a guy who grew up being athletic, with guys from all sports like Mike Jordan, Kobe Bryan, Brett Favre, WCW wrestlers (is it called like WWE now lol?), Jay Cutler, and Konstantinovs being big heroes of mine, regardless of impressing anyone, so it's really natural for me to be getting in the workout groove again. .
But yeah, looks do matter A LOT. It's simple human knowledge, so please don't anyone accuse me of theorycrafting because this is just a simple fact of society and biology. :S
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On February 10 2012 13:26 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +My steps have been small, but these are steps I've been proud of.
- Was talking to a chick in my biology class. She's in my group, but I never sit by her so we don't talk. Basically, she was saying how she was going to be a teacher and stuff for middle school, and how she could totally be a slutty but hot teacher. I agreed with her, and we started cracking jokes about it. I had a split second of doubt against saying it, but I said fuck my fears and said of it. I'm proud of it.
-I complimented a chick on her some highlight thing she had in her hair that I genuinely thought was fucking awesome. Did she respond how I wanted? Nah, just a quick oh thanks and went on. But I gave a compliment, didn't expect anything in return, and got exactly what happened. I didn't stress she didn't respond how I wanted. I'm proud of it.
-Forced myself to stay somewhere and make it fun, when normally I'd just bounce. Realized that most girls reciprocate when I touch, because I finally ran into one that didn't. Now I know what the difference is. These two are pretty minor
I'm proud of you too . I don't know if you care more about being social or more about girls, but it's always great to just try and be more social as it's a great thing to improve on. I go to a half-oriental univ. that is known statewide for being notoriously anti-social, and it isn't false. It sometimes get a bit discouraging when you talk to people, and some people, guys and girls, are already feeling awkward being confronted by a stranger with no association with them (not even same course or something), but even further by someone with a mature or "manly" demeanor, voice, and way of doing things. I sometimes talk to friends that I meet and talk to people and they find it strange. Then I remind them how the heck I met most of them. It wasn't in some class, not a student org., not friend of a friend. No association at all. Just raw meeting people outside of their (and my own) comfort zone. IMO, I've been gradually improving the past month and a half in this "I'll meet and talk to random strangers not in a club/party environment" scheme, because it's something that isn't easy. It's different from say a college party where people are in a good mood and are there TO meet and talk with people lol. I'm proud, and i'm glad that you're proud . Btw, one of the better things you can do in regards to girls is work out. Look into SL5x5 or Starting Strength. I hate myself for only having found out about SS like 3-4 weeks ago. When I was 14 and really athletic and didn't actually care about girls so much, they made me care about them. Then I took a fracture in the spine which put me out of athletic commission for quite some time, along with another thing around 17-ish. Atm I'm in the process of getting it back. But seriously, physique can make a huge difference. It's the difference of talking to a girl and she being meh even if she's telling you that you're really funny, and talking to a girl and her being interested even if you're ... talking about your Halo feats (that was a fun social experiment). The point I'm trying to make is that it makes your chances significantly better, because it is significant, and unless you're going after the super sexy supermodel look-a-likes that are extremely, extremely selective like Squattin does, your chances will be exponentially higher. That said, I'm a guy who grew up being athletic, with guys from all sports like Mike Jordan, Kobe Bryan, Brett Favre, WCW wrestlers (is it called like WWE now lol?), Jay Cutler, and Konstantinovs being big heroes of mine, regardless of impressing anyone, so it's really natural for me to be getting in the groove again. . But yeah, looks do matter A LOT. It's simple human knowledge, so please don't anyone accuse me of theorycrafting because this is just a simple fact of society and biology. :S
This might be my own bias, but I think being a good dancer or even sounding (linguistically) intelligent is a lot more effective than just being buff
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On February 10 2012 13:26 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:But yeah, looks do matter A LOT. It's simple human knowledge, so please don't anyone accuse me of theorycrafting because this is just a simple fact of society and biology. :S
Looks do matter, but not as much as charisma, social skills, dominance, and social status.
On February 10 2012 13:45 sluggaslamoo wrote:This might be my own bias, but I think being a good dancer or even sounding (linguistically) intelligent is a lot more effective than just being buff
Why not work on all three?
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Catch. <3
Now that she shitstorm in here has settled a little I wanna bring some attention to one point (pretty much the only one) where i wholeheartedly disagree.
Many (but obviously not all) women feel offended, violated, or cheated when they discover that a guy has pickup training (for an example of common reactions, see the film "Hitch"). This isn't in any way limited to women; I pointed out in a previous post that men react similarly negatively when they discover that a woman they've been seeing is far less attractive without makeup or has had plastic surgery. The PUA community takes a shit-ton of flak from men and women for teaching guys to be "fake" or something like that. I'm not calling any man or woman a manipulative bitch here, but the reality is that it's a very natural reaction for people to reject people changing for the better. It's part of the reason why society scorns hard work ("you're a try-hard!") and prefers naturals at everything.
... and in the same line:
Why exactly do you think a girl would know anything about how men seduce women? Are you seriously that naive?
First of all, the women who are interested in pickup (most of them got laid by a PUA who told them about it and discovered the scene that way, some end up there via some self-help suggestions or inner-game stuff) are an incredibly source of inspiration and feedback.
e.g. in the two larger local Lairs we have around 10 women (I'd say that equals about 10%) who visit meetings regulary, go out in the field with the guys and wing/get winged. While female game is an entirely diferent subject - it does exist and it's nothing evil either. And, I can't stress this hard enough: Feedback from women on certain aspects of your game is fucking huge and a great way to improve.
The female perspective on some PUAs is also loads of fun. Quote from one of my favorite cats: "So I was approached by this dude and he fucking kept talking for like 2 hours and I was like WOW FUCKING KISS ME AND TAKE ME HOME UR HOT BUT YOU TALK SO MUCH FUCKING SHIT." - (ur not alone squattin <3)
Many women feel cheated, offended or violated when learning that they just spent the night with you because you are a learning from the PUA community? The fuck. Work on your frames. I can proudly say that every single girl I had more than a one-night stand with (and I hate those anyway, weren't that many - I prefer affairs) knew what I was doing. Most of the time, before we had sex.
There is NOTHING WRONG with trying to improve how you interact with girls. In fact, a guy who actively works on how he can seduce women is sexy as hell. Why be ashamed of it? Anyone who tries to improve that part of his life is ahead of basicly any guy she ever met. Even the weaker "PUAs" are able to solve problems that arise during your standard communication that most normal men don't even see.
I'd even say it's an integral part of my game to talk with girls about how pickup girls works. If presented correctly it gives you value, has great entertainement value and can also create strong rapport.
Anyone who lies or hides when it comes to his work, where he comes from or what he enjoys spending a great portion of his time into has some serious issues with the stuff that he's doing and should work on changing his values or perspective of life.
If you aren't able to present your job or your background in a way that a girl will fall off the chair laughing while getting sparkles in her eyes, you're making fundamental mistakes in your game. And yes, that goes for programmers, mathematicians and chemical engineers just as well as for everyone else.
Edit: Almost forgot.
@squattin: I watched some of your youtube videos yesterday with some buddies of mine. One of them being a lawyer, his comment was "I'm not entirely sure about the US, but if he'd put up those videos over here, one of the girls in them finds out and sues him he'd be in for fucking deep shit."
Just sayin.
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On February 10 2012 13:45 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 13:26 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:My steps have been small, but these are steps I've been proud of.
- Was talking to a chick in my biology class. She's in my group, but I never sit by her so we don't talk. Basically, she was saying how she was going to be a teacher and stuff for middle school, and how she could totally be a slutty but hot teacher. I agreed with her, and we started cracking jokes about it. I had a split second of doubt against saying it, but I said fuck my fears and said of it. I'm proud of it.
-I complimented a chick on her some highlight thing she had in her hair that I genuinely thought was fucking awesome. Did she respond how I wanted? Nah, just a quick oh thanks and went on. But I gave a compliment, didn't expect anything in return, and got exactly what happened. I didn't stress she didn't respond how I wanted. I'm proud of it.
-Forced myself to stay somewhere and make it fun, when normally I'd just bounce. Realized that most girls reciprocate when I touch, because I finally ran into one that didn't. Now I know what the difference is. These two are pretty minor
I'm proud of you too . I don't know if you care more about being social or more about girls, but it's always great to just try and be more social as it's a great thing to improve on. I go to a half-oriental univ. that is known statewide for being notoriously anti-social, and it isn't false. It sometimes get a bit discouraging when you talk to people, and some people, guys and girls, are already feeling awkward being confronted by a stranger with no association with them (not even same course or something), but even further by someone with a mature or "manly" demeanor, voice, and way of doing things. I sometimes talk to friends that I meet and talk to people and they find it strange. Then I remind them how the heck I met most of them. It wasn't in some class, not a student org., not friend of a friend. No association at all. Just raw meeting people outside of their (and my own) comfort zone. IMO, I've been gradually improving the past month and a half in this "I'll meet and talk to random strangers not in a club/party environment" scheme, because it's something that isn't easy. It's different from say a college party where people are in a good mood and are there TO meet and talk with people lol. I'm proud, and i'm glad that you're proud . Btw, one of the better things you can do in regards to girls is work out. Look into SL5x5 or Starting Strength. I hate myself for only having found out about SS like 3-4 weeks ago. When I was 14 and really athletic and didn't actually care about girls so much, they made me care about them. Then I took a fracture in the spine which put me out of athletic commission for quite some time, along with another thing around 17-ish. Atm I'm in the process of getting it back. But seriously, physique can make a huge difference. It's the difference of talking to a girl and she being meh even if she's telling you that you're really funny, and talking to a girl and her being interested even if you're ... talking about your Halo feats (that was a fun social experiment). The point I'm trying to make is that it makes your chances significantly better, because it is significant, and unless you're going after the super sexy supermodel look-a-likes that are extremely, extremely selective like Squattin does, your chances will be exponentially higher. That said, I'm a guy who grew up being athletic, with guys from all sports like Mike Jordan, Kobe Bryan, Brett Favre, WCW wrestlers (is it called like WWE now lol?), Jay Cutler, and Konstantinovs being big heroes of mine, regardless of impressing anyone, so it's really natural for me to be getting in the groove again. . But yeah, looks do matter A LOT. It's simple human knowledge, so please don't anyone accuse me of theorycrafting because this is just a simple fact of society and biology. :S This might be my own bias, but I think being a good dancer or even sounding (linguistically) intelligent is a lot more effective than just being buff
Yeah, those are great things too lol. I have the latter (I've always been pretty academic and I'm an engineering student currently), but the former haha I suck at that . But from what I've experienced and observed, looks mean a big deal. I don't know how Australian society compares to US (SoCal at least) society, but looks, particularly a good physique, are huge, along with other things like others have mentioned. It's just I've had up and downs in the physique area so it was really intriguing to see how differently girls react . I don't mean to overemphasize it, it's just that it's something that really intrigues me.
Btw, dumbasses with nothing between their ears and nothing to their name but hitting the gym a few times a week are pretty effective too :S. If anything, do all 3. I don't go do much dancing, but seriously, I've rarely seen people who dance decently, so I don't feel so alone. Doesn't mean I can't improve though .
charisma, social skills, dominance, and social status.
Yes, that's very true . What do you mean by dominance? Do you mean confidence? :S
Social status I don't have much of that seeing as I'm a poor engineering student haha. I guess I'll have that after graduating though .
Btw, what do you do with girls that don't talk much at all? It's like, they just want you to talk and they won't say much? Sometimes it's because they're just shy/awkward, but how do I know it's that, and it's not them not being interested?
Anyways, I lift regularly. I'm going into a fitness related career, and I'd consider it a passion. So I got you beat on that one I'm currently on 5/3/1. I used to post a lot over at TLH&F, but I haven't been able to lately.
Man mode  . Nice.
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On February 10 2012 13:02 sunprince wrote:
Many (but obviously not all) women feel offended, violated, or cheated when they discover that a guy has pickup training (for an example of common reactions, see the film "Hitch"). This isn't in any way limited to women; I pointed out in a previous post that men react similarly negatively when they discover that a woman they've been seeing is far less attractive without makeup or has had plastic surgery. The PUA community takes a shit-ton of flak from men and women for teaching guys to be "fake" or something like that. I'm not calling any man or woman a manipulative bitch here, but the reality is that it's a very natural reaction for people to reject people changing for the better. It's part of the reason why society scorns hard work ("you're a try-hard!") and prefers naturals at everything.
So while I don't think girls consciously try to manipulate people to find the naturals, their general dislike of people with pickup training (mirrored by men's dislike of plastic surgery, etc.) is rooted in that deeper desire.
Hm. Ya know, you may be right. Although I don't really think Hitch is a good indicator just because it's a film, I know what you are saying. I think it's somewhat a mix of the two. I know that people are very sympathetic towards others, and maybe the feeling they have once they make this discovery is because they feel cheated. Complicated question, I'll have to think about it.
I do think the natural reaction for people to rejected people changing for the others is a bit iffy though; it kind of depends who you are around with. Those who have really shitty self confidence and tons of toxic shame may be bitter because you are actually making something with your life, while they sit around, and those who are more in tune with themselves and their competitive nature (a la The Warrior of the four archetypes of the mature masculinity) may use this to further drive themselves, and look of it as a more friendly rivalry if anything.
I totally know what you mean though; my friend is pretty much better at gears (well, he does go for the objectives a lot more ), and I remember thinking dang him! So I totally get what you mean. I somewhat struggle with that though; I feel kind of shitty when I'm like that dang bastard, doing better than me. But it also instills some kind of competitive drive.
I completely agree that you should figure out what works for you. The pickup community's roots are centered around hook-ups and one-night stands, but personally I prefer MLTRs, so I've tuned my game towards that purpose. Pickup is a tool; nothing more, and everyone has different styles and uses for their tools. Hell, there's even a blog about how to game your own wife so that you can have a sexier marriage.
Yeah, I knew this before, but sometimes you just gotta experience things deeply before you can really make sense of it It's some good stuff though. I agree with you; I'm looking for a woman who can maximize my happiness for awhile, teach me, and bring me value. Of course I would reciprocate. Cheers to that, man.
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@Judicator. My goal is really both. Find a cool chick, but also just expand my social circle and live life. I'll take the second one over the first if I had to pick, but they go hand in hand imo.
But thanks man, I appreciate it. I've come back to what I used to be, but now with more confidence and self. I give you mad props for just meeting people randomly like that. I'm hoping to be on my way there soon I am pretty good at randomly meeting people when I feel up to it, but I don't put near enough effort into it (too inside my comfort zone?). And at parties/clubs I have a harder time, maybe because there are too many people/too loud lol I'm not sure really.
But still, props man. Especially on a campus where people aren't receptive, which is a shame.
Anyways, I lift regularly. I'm going into a fitness related career, and I'd consider it a passion. So I got you beat on that one I'm currently on 5/3/1. I used to post a lot over at TLH&F, but I haven't been able to lately.
I believe the phrase I heard was not every man is born good looking, but every man can be handsome. That I can dig.
Looks do matter, but it's often either completely underrated (You're missing 7/8ths of your face? Dude we'll have you sleeping with super models in a week) to completely overrated (You're missing 7/8ths of your face? Don't leave the house. In fact, get some blinds). People who don't think looks matter are delusional.
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Edit: @r.Evo. Hey derr :D
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EPT
