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On February 09 2012 10:42 squattincassanova wrote:But if you are bad ass enough, and you want it enough, and you do it in a smart way, you will change. This is what I looked like before pickup, and this is what I look like after. + Show Spoiler +
First of all squattincass: Stats? Squat Bench DL @ what BW? How long been workin out? Nice bodyfat % bro
Some general questions to all PUA in this thread:
Have you ever run into a girl who knew exactly what you were doing? Did they play along or point it out right away?
How did you react? Keep going or bail asap?
Would you say that the PUA routines (for lack of a better word) attracts females of a certain type? Or is more effective for females of a certain background/culture?
I'm asking this because in China (and probably most of Asia), girls are very defensive of such aggressive approaches and usually like the more milder/silent types.
Do you change your attitude/methods (again, no better wording comes to mind) when dealing with girls from other cultures? And I don't mean Asians who grew up in the US that still counts as American.
It seems like these routines work better on girls with an American upbringing that have ingrained favoritism of aggressive and very dominant attributes in males.
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How many girls have u laid do u think cassanova?
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On February 09 2012 11:16 pyrogenetix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 10:42 squattincassanova wrote:But if you are bad ass enough, and you want it enough, and you do it in a smart way, you will change. This is what I looked like before pickup, and this is what I look like after. + Show Spoiler + First of all squattincass: Stats? Squat Bench DL @ what BW? How long been workin out? Nice bodyfat % bro Some general questions to all PUA in this thread: Have you ever run into a girl who knew exactly what you were doing? Did they play along or point it out right away? How did you react? Keep going or bail asap? Would you say that the PUA routines (for lack of a better word) attracts females of a certain type? Or is more effective for females of a certain background/culture? I'm asking this because in China (and probably most of Asia), girls are very defensive of such aggressive approaches and usually like the more milder/silent types. Do you change your attitude/methods (again, no better wording comes to mind) when dealing with girls from other cultures? And I don't mean Asians who grew up in the US that still counts as American. It seems like these routines work better on girls with an American upbringing that have ingrained favoritism of aggressive and very dominant attributes in males.
The bolded part troubles me a bit. I really suggest you visit the US and see a lot of the Orientals who have lived their whole lives in this country. You would think some of them (the Chinese ones at least, as you are Chinese) are your countrymen.
Even Orientals who grew up in the US can be really, really ethnocentric and not really in tune with being American, and lots are like that. It's how they're raised by their parents and reinforced strongly by living in 'immigrant communities' of people who are by and large the same. I wouldn't necessarily call it an American upbringing. I see and associate with this sort every single day, so it's pretty easy to observe. and I've talked to some oriental friends on these matters as well.
And yes, a good many of those girls I've come across are the shy-ish type you described and really anti-dating people not of their heritage, assuming the ones that actually date. Strong indoctrination if you ask me. Meanwhile, the ones who are more American in general demeanor and behavior tend to be a lot more open and sociable and less ethnocentric.
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On February 09 2012 11:16 pyrogenetix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 10:42 squattincassanova wrote:But if you are bad ass enough, and you want it enough, and you do it in a smart way, you will change. This is what I looked like before pickup, and this is what I look like after. + Show Spoiler + First of all squattincass: Stats? Squat Bench DL @ what BW? How long been workin out? Nice bodyfat % bro Some general questions to all PUA in this thread: Have you ever run into a girl who knew exactly what you were doing? Did they play along or point it out right away? How did you react? Keep going or bail asap? Would you say that the PUA routines (for lack of a better word) attracts females of a certain type? Or is more effective for females of a certain background/culture? I'm asking this because in China (and probably most of Asia), girls are very defensive of such aggressive approaches and usually like the more milder/silent types. Do you change your attitude/methods (again, no better wording comes to mind) when dealing with girls from other cultures? And I don't mean Asians who grew up in the US that still counts as American. It seems like these routines work better on girls with an American upbringing that have ingrained favoritism of aggressive and very dominant attributes in males.
Body weight 200
Deadlift 480
Squat 420
Workout Time: 4 years
Bench 280
1. I never been called out once for being a pick up artist. People have asked me if that's my pick up line in terms of typical pick up line from typical dudes, not PUA pick up line. Simply respond "Oh is this the part where I'm supposed to pick you up?" Just don't buy into her frame. If you out frame her, she aint gonna do shit. And even if they did call you out. Who gives a fucking shit? When you wake up the next day do you think anything matters? If I get called out, Ill just keep talking until she either walks away or she goes home with me 
2. I don't use canned routines. I do have routines in the sense that they are my personal stories and I have told them so many times that I pull them out contextually based on what she says. I'm not going into a group with a pre-determined stack. I dont do that. But if she asks me a question about somewhere traveled to, Ill have a routine for example about my experiences in Costa Rica (for example). Routine is nothing more than a crutch or a swimming floatie. Its only to help you get good enough so you can drop them. Its a stepping stone, nothing more.
3. Yes, different cultures respond to you differently. Asians tend to be shy and Blacks tend to be more aggressive. But that doesn't mean every girl is like that. Its just a generalization. So of course, you are going to have to tweak your game. For example if you tease an Asian girl and she gets super defensive.... pull back and do less teasing, ask more questions. If you tease an Asian girl and she jokes back at you x10, and then you find out all her friends are black. Then go ahead and continue to bust her balls. Some girls just respond to different things. It comes from experience to know what to do. Some girls respond to banter. Some girls respond to mystery and intrigue. Some girls respond to money so you should drop hints like you are rich.
But explaining this really doesn't matter because you will forget all of this the second you walk into the club. It has to be learned from experience and willing to fail. Since I get so much shit for only getting 12 lays out of 2000 sets. That means im failing 99% of the time. So that means even if you failed 100% of the time, you still be only failing 1% more than me and thats a lot of failing 
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Squattin, don't take this the wrong way, but regarding the converse of the things you're talking about, do you think some ladies you open sets with have a bit of a non-interest in East Asians, and as a result that gives you a straight-up disadvantage?
And related to this, do you think your success would be a lot better if you tried entirely with East asian-descended ladies since you're similar to them in that regard?
I'm just curious on your thoughts on this, because it's easy for a German native whose whole ancestry is in Germany like r.Evo to talk and slam you when all he has to deal with are other German natives like himself, whereas you're in a completely different scenario in this regard.
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On February 09 2012 12:44 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Squattin, don't take this the wrong way, but regarding the converse of the things you're talking about, do you think some ladies you open sets with have a bit of a non-interest in East Asians, and as a result that gives you a straight-up disadvantage?
And related to this, do you think your success would be a lot better if you tried entirely with East asian-descended ladies since you're similar to them in that regard?
I'm just curious on your thoughts on this, because it's easy for a German native whose whole ancestry is in Germany like r.Evo to talk and slam you when all he has to deal with are other German natives like himself, whereas you're in a completely different scenario in this regard.
Let me rephrase what you are asking. You are asking if I have a harder time with chicks who aren't attracted to Asians. Well of course I have a harder time. Just like a Black guy has a harder time attracting a girl who hates Blacks. But the real questions is: who gives a shit, and how would you know in advance? You don't. I see a hot girl, I approach. You are here for the skill not the girl. Why? Because every fucking weekend, its a fresh new group of hot girls.
As far as my success rates goes. Over half of my lays have been Latinas. I do okay with White girls. I do poorly with Asians, specifically Chinese and Korean. I do okay with Filipino girls. East Asian girls tend to be socially awkward, the notion of a cold approach is not something they are comfortable with. Now put me in a social circle with a group of friends and its a totally different story with Asians. Its not to say I do bad with Asians, its more to do with the environment I am in.... specifically the club. A lot of their friends cock block you too. Managing the group is huge when it comes to gaming Asian girls.
As far as my taste in girls go. I prefer Latina and White women. I think Asians have a pretty face but damn they got no curves. Also, from a personality stand point, I like White and Latina girls. They are just more fun, outgoing, and typically are more fun in conversations. When I talk to most Asian girls, it feels like I am holding 95% of the conversation. If I wanted to do that, I can talk to myself in the mirror. Now if I met an Asian girl who is socially savvy, has curves, and is very outgoing and has positive attitude, of course I am going to continue.
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Thanks a lot for the clarification and knowledge haha. Now that you mention it, that's actually really weird regarding the Asian girls. I didn't notice the social awkwardness was that severe, thinking it had something more to do with me than them. At least I have a bit of insight to what's going on the next time I try any sort of opening conversation with some of those girls.
Btw, what abdominal exercises do you do? Do you do any isolated arm exercises?
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If I can chime in squattincass.
In my opinion, if you're "approaching" that much, and your numbers are that low... I would say your "game" is actually working against you and you're strictly playing the numbers.
In my experience, if you're a charismatic guy you can get a girl into bed (without tricking her) about 5% of the time you meet a new (eligible) girl. That should be at least twice as high if you're in a club environment, and about 3-4x as high if you're doing online dating.
If you've put that much work into your body, and your numbers are still so low it's not 'game' at all. (Though it's not a bad thing regardless)
Maybe this has already been said though..
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Agreed with mads.
You're shooting yourself in the foot by using this 'game' shit.
You're not a real person when you're using 'game' and any half decently intelligent female is gonna see right through you. This is why your success rate is so low. Not because your 'game' isn't "tight enough".
Matt Konig (writer for Vin Dicarlo) says it best. The more insecure you are, the more 'game' you feel you need.
Drop game altogether and be 100% real (not easy to do, especially if you're a community guy.) and that's when you get the real girls.
You know when girls say "just be yourself"? Yeh, that's not bullshit, it's true. The community says differently but that's just because they want to sell you products.
You can tell how insecure a guy is by how much game he feels he needs in order to succeed with women. Like he himself isn't enough for them.
Yes you need to be attractive if you want the top girls. However you don't need Pickup to do this.
Get your bodyfat to ~7-10%
Have 1-3 social hobbies (preferably ones that involve attractive women)
Go on dates and make sure you invite them back to your place afterwards and make a move.
gg. No game. No stupid lines or stories. Just being real.
It really is that easy...
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On February 09 2012 17:54 KoveN- wrote:
Agreed with mads.
You're shooting yourself in the foot by using this 'game' shit.
You're not a real person when you're using 'game' and any half decently intelligent female is gonna see right through you. This is why your success rate is so low. Not because your 'game' isn't "tight enough".
Matt Konig (writer for Vin Dicarlo) says it best. The more insecure you are, the more 'game' you feel you need.
Drop game altogether and be 100% real (not easy to do, especially if you're a community guy.) and that's when you get the real girls.
You know when girls say "just be yourself"? Yeh, that's not bullshit, it's true. The community says differently but that's just because they want to sell you products.
You can tell how insecure a guy is by how much game he feels he needs in order to succeed with women. Like he himself isn't enough for them.
Yes you need to be attractive if you want the top girls. However you don't need Pickup to do this.
Get your bodyfat to ~7-10%
Have 1-3 social hobbies (preferably ones that involve attractive women)
Go on dates and make sure you invite them back to your place afterwards and make a move.
gg. No game. No stupid lines or stories. Just being real.
It really is that easy...
Ironically you are talking about natural game. There's a subforum for that as well.
Its horses for courses, the only reason you don't believe this shit is because you haven't tried it. For some people, they are naturally good at picking up, and will stick with natural game because it works for them. One thing I've noticed though is that they have many holes in their game. Often they can only pickup one type of girl, or they need to have a setting that they are comfortable working in.
One thing learning about it does do for some people is demotivate you, hell it did for me. When its broken down into a "science", technically I got better but at the same time , got less interested in doing it. I dunno why, I guess I stopped feeling like there was a emotional connection and I wasn't talking to a person, but a state machine with different outputs depending on what you input and probabilities.
I love games, but I found I only like them when they are on a board or a computer.
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is awesome32275 Posts
On February 09 2012 18:08 sluggaslamoo wrote:
the only reason you don't believe this shit is because you haven't tried it.
Sounds like Herbalife to me
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Is this the type of 'game' where a person can map hack? If so, link me plz.
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I love all the keyboard jockeys and theory craft people on this thread. I got guys who don't have the balls to do a single approach tell me what a good ratio of approach to lay is lol!
People keep talking about "natural game". "Natural game" and "synthetic game" should in the end not look any different than each other. Just like in basketball, a guy who played basketball without a coach whos really good should not look any different than a guy who learned basketball with a coach and textbooks in conjunction with training. The end result should look natural and fluid for both.
A guy who learned pickup synthetically eventually looks "natural" from an exterior perspective (assuming he actually gets good, not like the other 95%). The only reason he doesn't look natural is because when you learn anything new.... you fumble and are clumsy. Thats nothing more than the process of learning anything. When most girls look at me, they just assume a normal guy having a conversation and being social. I don't use any weird scripts or routines (which is perfectly fine when you start out as a crutch). But they don't know on the inside I'm aware of all the structure of pickup. When I qualify a girl, from the girls perspective, it just seems like a cool guy telling her why he likes her. I keep reiterating that synthetic game isn't supposed to look choppy and weird. At least that's not the end goal. Its just that guys start out that way.
And since most people start out sucking, and thats what you see out there, you make that assumption. The guys that actually get good... well when you see them, you assume they always been good and that they never went through pickup. Its not like you can see a person and know his past like Professor X or some shit.
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On February 10 2012 02:44 Flaccid wrote:Is this the type of 'game' where a person can map hack? If so, link me plz.
thank you, i enjoyed reading that.
Watching this casanova guy trying to troll is like watching Plan 9 from Outer Space. It's so bad and tasteless, granted you give it enough time, it becomes good.
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@ squatting
i think i read a post from you earlier stating you're a chemical engineer. how do you ground this when you game? you dress nothing like one and i bet when you do tell women you are, they don't know the first damn thing about what you do. no one also gets the first impression that a ripped guy who does pickup and is funny is a chemical engineer lol
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On February 10 2012 06:36 saocyn wrote:
@ squatting
i think i read a post from you earlier stating you're a chemical engineer. how do you ground this when you game? you dress nothing like one and i bet when you do tell women you are, they don't know the first damn thing about what you do. no one also gets the first impression that a ripped guy who does pickup and is funny is a chemical engineer lol
Most people think I am in sales or I am a marine or something along those lines. I usually never give a straight answer when they ask me where I am from or what I do. When they ask me where I am from, I tell them I just got off a boat and that I had to learn English via the Rosetta Stone. When I get asked what I do, I say I am an ass model or I work at In-N-Out and that I got buff arms smashing the potatoes. Some times Ill get into a conversation with a girl for 5 minutes and she will know absolutely nothing about me haha. Its really a lot more fun because its not what every other dude is saying. Plus, you go into playful role play mode and the girl is intrigued that she has no idea what you are.
Now, if they ask me multiple times and they REALLY want to know, then yeah, Ill give them a real answer because when you deny them over and over and they want to connect, it becomes rapport breaking. I usually dumb it down though. Like I tell them that I work for a bio medical company that makes heart implants and I don’t really go over the technical details of what I do but rather what the company does. I’m not going to tell a girl, “Hey at work, I use statistics and design of experiments to map the design space for the optimal coating parameters that drive the release rate of drugs”. No girl is going to know WTF that shit is. But if a girl is in med school or if she’s a nurse, I might go a bit more in detail about catheters and stuff. Talking about work in a club in general isn’t a great idea. Its just boring. I try to transition out of it as soon as possible.
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On February 10 2012 03:01 squattincassanova wrote:
I love all the keyboard jockeys and theory craft people on this thread. I got guys who don't have the balls to do a single approach tell me what a good ratio of approach to lay is lol!
People keep talking about "natural game". "Natural game" and "synthetic game" should in the end not look any different than each other. Just like in basketball, a guy who played basketball without a coach whos really good should not look any different than a guy who learned basketball with a coach and textbooks in conjunction with training. The end result should look natural and fluid for both.
A guy who learned pickup synthetically eventually looks "natural" from an exterior perspective (assuming he actually gets good, not like the other 95%). The only reason he doesn't look natural is because when you learn anything new.... you fumble and are clumsy. Thats nothing more than the process of learning anything. When most girls look at me, they just assume a normal guy having a conversation and being social. I don't use any weird scripts or routines (which is perfectly fine when you start out as a crutch). But they don't know on the inside I'm aware of all the structure of pickup. When I qualify a girl, from the girls perspective, it just seems like a cool guy telling her why he likes her. I keep reiterating that synthetic game isn't supposed to look choppy and weird. At least that's not the end goal. Its just that guys start out that way.
And since most people start out sucking, and thats what you see out there, you make that assumption. The guys that actually get good... well when you see them, you assume they always been good and that they never went through pickup. Its not like you can see a person and know his past like Professor X or some shit.
I'm not a huge PUA guy because I don't really need it and in my case it has affected my game negatively (in a motivational way) but anyway.
Just to make sure I wasn't disagreeing with you. Mystery method (possibly the most "synthetic" of all) and others is a lot easier for people aren't born very good socially. The closest relevant analogy I can think of, is its like learning build orders in Starcraft versus just playing the game and see how you go. Now we all know which makes you get better at the game the fastest.
Natural game isn't about looking natural, its about not using any tricks in your game, no peacocking, no set routines, none of that silly beginner talk about the cube stuff. Its really just about being fun and being yourself. It appeals to a lot of people like the person I responded to above, but I've noticed that a lot of natural gamers will have positions where they are just unable to close where you really need to step outside your comfort zone.
This is where PUA helped me a lot, this next bit may sound like a huge brag but I will explain just as an example. Before learning about PUA (but-post-wanting-to-get-out-of-my-comfort-zone) every single time I've asked for a number I've gotten it, and have gone out every single time I've gotten that number (so no fake number), there are a few times where I've been rejected, but that was with direct game (random girl, "hey you wanna go out") where I was just bored and wanted to see what would happen, its worked sometimes though. I don't care about F closing as much, because once you are with a girl long enough it will come anyway. This always required a long drawn out process though, where I would strike up a convo -> Coffee at lunches -> Dinners/Clubs -> etc. It often took many weeks. This system has worked really well for colleges, high-school, house parties where you know some people. However.
Problem is this doesn't work if you wanna pick up at a club / random's party. I breakdance so that helps in the club scene a lot, if you can break or dance well, girls will come to you (often K close on the spot), but my biggest problem was time constraints and being able to achieve things within those time frames. So my ability to pickup at clubs at places where I didn't have time was terrible, almost never ended up getting an F close because I never knew how to transition out of a K. This is where PUA helped a lot (well at least for me), was knowing how to drive it home fast even with a 8-9 HB.
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On February 10 2012 08:25 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:01 squattincassanova wrote:
I love all the keyboard jockeys and theory craft people on this thread. I got guys who don't have the balls to do a single approach tell me what a good ratio of approach to lay is lol!
People keep talking about "natural game". "Natural game" and "synthetic game" should in the end not look any different than each other. Just like in basketball, a guy who played basketball without a coach whos really good should not look any different than a guy who learned basketball with a coach and textbooks in conjunction with training. The end result should look natural and fluid for both.
A guy who learned pickup synthetically eventually looks "natural" from an exterior perspective (assuming he actually gets good, not like the other 95%). The only reason he doesn't look natural is because when you learn anything new.... you fumble and are clumsy. Thats nothing more than the process of learning anything. When most girls look at me, they just assume a normal guy having a conversation and being social. I don't use any weird scripts or routines (which is perfectly fine when you start out as a crutch). But they don't know on the inside I'm aware of all the structure of pickup. When I qualify a girl, from the girls perspective, it just seems like a cool guy telling her why he likes her. I keep reiterating that synthetic game isn't supposed to look choppy and weird. At least that's not the end goal. Its just that guys start out that way.
And since most people start out sucking, and thats what you see out there, you make that assumption. The guys that actually get good... well when you see them, you assume they always been good and that they never went through pickup. Its not like you can see a person and know his past like Professor X or some shit. I'm not a huge PUA guy because I don't really need it and in my case it has affected my game negatively (in a motivational way) but anyway. Just to make sure I wasn't disagreeing with you. Mystery method (possibly the most "synthetic" of all) and others is a lot easier for people aren't born very good socially. The closest relevant analogy I can think of, is its like learning build orders in Starcraft versus just playing the game and see how you go. Now we all know which makes you get better at the game the fastest. Natural game isn't about looking natural, its about not using any tricks in your game, no peacocking, no set routines, none of that silly beginner talk about the cube stuff. Its really just about being fun and being yourself. It appeals to a lot of people like the person I responded to above, but I've noticed that a lot of natural gamers will have positions where they are just unable to close where you really need to step outside your comfort zone. This is where PUA helped me a lot, this next bit may sound like a huge brag but I will explain just as an example. Before learning about PUA (but-post-wanting-to-get-out-of-my-comfort-zone) every single time I've asked for a number I've gotten it, and have gone out every single time I've gotten that number (so no fake number), there are a few times where I've been rejected, but that was with direct game (random girl, "hey you wanna go out") where I was just bored and wanted to see what would happen, its worked sometimes though. I don't care about F closing as much, because once you are with a girl long enough it will come anyway. This always required a long drawn out process though, where I would strike up a convo -> Coffee at lunches -> Dinners/Clubs -> etc. It often took many weeks. This system has worked really well for colleges, high-school, house parties where you know some people. However. Problem is this doesn't work if you wanna pick up at a club / random's party. I breakdance so that helps in the club scene a lot, if you can break or dance well, girls will come to you (often K close on the spot), but my biggest problem was time constraints and being able to achieve things within those time frames. So my ability to pickup at clubs at places where I didn't have time was terrible, almost never ended up getting an F close because I never knew how to transition out of a K. This is where PUA helped a lot (well at least for me), was knowing how to drive it home fast even with a 8-9 HB.
I was talking to Adam Lyons in person about this and I agree with what he says. A natural will put himself in a place and condition where odds favors him. He goes after the girl who is already in to him and who already present indicators of interest. Things sort of fall in order and he gets the girl. A natural will almost almost never approach a random girl and almost never has success with girls who don't like him at first. So from a ratio point of view, he always seems like hes getting the girl hes after but in reality... hes not really overcoming great odds. Hes only taking the sure shots.
A pickup artist will approach and makes things happen. He will approach girls where conditions don’t favor him. The girl maybe not into him at first. She maybe in a group that has other girls who cock block. She may have terrible logistics. A good PUA is able to make things happen, and able to anticipate where the road blocks are. A good PUA will be able to position himself properly, he will be able to manage the group, befriend the obstacles, how to manage logistics. This is why a lot of naturals plateau. They don’t get any better…. Why? They are just blindly doing the same thing they always been doing and a lot of them are good looking so they don’t really need to have super tight game. It’s the law of least effort. If you can get by with good Abercrombie looks, why bother with learning super tight game?
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On February 10 2012 09:35 squattincassanova wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 08:25 sluggaslamoo wrote:On February 10 2012 03:01 squattincassanova wrote:
I love all the keyboard jockeys and theory craft people on this thread. I got guys who don't have the balls to do a single approach tell me what a good ratio of approach to lay is lol!
People keep talking about "natural game". "Natural game" and "synthetic game" should in the end not look any different than each other. Just like in basketball, a guy who played basketball without a coach whos really good should not look any different than a guy who learned basketball with a coach and textbooks in conjunction with training. The end result should look natural and fluid for both.
A guy who learned pickup synthetically eventually looks "natural" from an exterior perspective (assuming he actually gets good, not like the other 95%). The only reason he doesn't look natural is because when you learn anything new.... you fumble and are clumsy. Thats nothing more than the process of learning anything. When most girls look at me, they just assume a normal guy having a conversation and being social. I don't use any weird scripts or routines (which is perfectly fine when you start out as a crutch). But they don't know on the inside I'm aware of all the structure of pickup. When I qualify a girl, from the girls perspective, it just seems like a cool guy telling her why he likes her. I keep reiterating that synthetic game isn't supposed to look choppy and weird. At least that's not the end goal. Its just that guys start out that way.
And since most people start out sucking, and thats what you see out there, you make that assumption. The guys that actually get good... well when you see them, you assume they always been good and that they never went through pickup. Its not like you can see a person and know his past like Professor X or some shit. I'm not a huge PUA guy because I don't really need it and in my case it has affected my game negatively (in a motivational way) but anyway. Just to make sure I wasn't disagreeing with you. Mystery method (possibly the most "synthetic" of all) and others is a lot easier for people aren't born very good socially. The closest relevant analogy I can think of, is its like learning build orders in Starcraft versus just playing the game and see how you go. Now we all know which makes you get better at the game the fastest. Natural game isn't about looking natural, its about not using any tricks in your game, no peacocking, no set routines, none of that silly beginner talk about the cube stuff. Its really just about being fun and being yourself. It appeals to a lot of people like the person I responded to above, but I've noticed that a lot of natural gamers will have positions where they are just unable to close where you really need to step outside your comfort zone. This is where PUA helped me a lot, this next bit may sound like a huge brag but I will explain just as an example. Before learning about PUA (but-post-wanting-to-get-out-of-my-comfort-zone) every single time I've asked for a number I've gotten it, and have gone out every single time I've gotten that number (so no fake number), there are a few times where I've been rejected, but that was with direct game (random girl, "hey you wanna go out") where I was just bored and wanted to see what would happen, its worked sometimes though. I don't care about F closing as much, because once you are with a girl long enough it will come anyway. This always required a long drawn out process though, where I would strike up a convo -> Coffee at lunches -> Dinners/Clubs -> etc. It often took many weeks. This system has worked really well for colleges, high-school, house parties where you know some people. However. Problem is this doesn't work if you wanna pick up at a club / random's party. I breakdance so that helps in the club scene a lot, if you can break or dance well, girls will come to you (often K close on the spot), but my biggest problem was time constraints and being able to achieve things within those time frames. So my ability to pickup at clubs at places where I didn't have time was terrible, almost never ended up getting an F close because I never knew how to transition out of a K. This is where PUA helped a lot (well at least for me), was knowing how to drive it home fast even with a 8-9 HB. I was talking to Adam Lyons in person about this and I agree with what he says. A natural will put himself in a place and condition where odds favors him. He goes after the girl who is already in to him and who already present indicators of interest. Things sort of fall in order and he gets the girl. A natural will almost almost never approach a random girl and almost never has success with girls who don't like him at first. So from a ratio point of view, he always seems like hes getting the girl hes after but in reality... hes not really overcoming great odds. Hes only taking the sure shots. A pickup artist will approach and makes things happen. He will approach girls where conditions don’t favor him. The girl maybe not into him at first. She maybe in a group that has other girls who cock block. She may have terrible logistics. A good PUA is able to make things happen, and able to anticipate where the road blocks are. A good PUA will be able to position himself properly, he will be able to manage the group, befriend the obstacles, how to manage logistics. This is why a lot of naturals plateau. They don’t get any better…. Why? They are just blindly doing the same thing they always been doing and a lot of them are good looking so they don’t really need to have super tight game. It’s the law of least effort. If you can get by with good Abercrombie looks, why bother with learning super tight game?
Haha oh god..
You're meant to be a super community student right? I thought you guys didn't believe looks were everything? haha in fact in your minds, if some big fat ugly dude gets a hottie, because of his "super tight game" he's the man, right?
Hahaha
See, this is the problem with the community and I keep bringing it up but you guys just don't see it.
You all have the mindset of VALIDATION.
You feel validated when a girl goes home with you, when you worked REAL hard to get her. It's like you won. You get a hit of validation. Usually it's because you sucked with girls your whole life and now finally you can actually get some.
For me. I get sex from a girl that I like and that's it. Sometimes I won't even tell anyone.
See the difference?
"She maybe in a group that has other girls who cock block. She may have terrible logistics. A good PUA is able to make things happen, and able to anticipate where the road blocks are. A good PUA will be able to position himself properly, he will be able to manage the group, befriend the obstacles, how to manage logistics."
You see, you get a hit of "look how awesome I am, I can do all this stuff! I must be so great." VALIDATION
You weigh your self-worth on how HARD it is to GET a girl.
You know what? If you're a great guy and go after the girls you REALLY want, they are ALL easy.
and how easy or hard it was to get her really does not matter in the slightest because it's the girl you are after that is the prize, not the validation you're receiving afterwards.
I knew a community guy who texted his friends, while he was having sex with a chick, that he was getting laid and could not wait to post his "lay report" on the community forum the next day.
He wanted validation from his peers.
I don't really call it "natural game".
I call mine, No game. and community guys I call "Validation game."
Problem is, girls and validation don't mix. I'm sure your books have told you how bad trying to get approval from women is?
Well validation is the same, problem is your books don't teach this one, do they? haha.
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On February 09 2012 17:25 mads wrote:If you've put that much work into your body, and your numbers are still so low it's not 'game' at all.
I might not agree with a lot of things squattin says, but it's apparent he's not completely terrible and actually has reasonable game. The real reason his numbers are so low is because he mass approaches. Constantly approaching girls everywhere (which it seems like he's doing) is obviously going to have a lower success rate than selectively approaching girls who give IOI's or approaching in conducive environments where you're likely to be the girl's "type" (i.e. dancers do best in clubs, classy guys do best in the bars/lounges where professional women hang out, gamers do best at LAN parties provided they can find any actual girls there, etc.).
I personally have a much higher success rate now (at least #closing at least ~50% of the time), but that's because I'm past the mass approaching stage. These days, because I'm (a) mostly content to enjoy my rotation of OLTRs, (b) too busy with work/studying/gym/friends/etc to deliberately sarge much, and (c) somewhat lazy, I only approach when given IOI's or otherwise have reason to believe it's a high-percentage approach. I spend much less time approaching in clubs (where I'm at a relative disadvantage due to not being a dancer and where loud noise works against my cocky/funny style). Because I'm satisfied with my level of skills, and already have abundant access to sex, I'm not under pressure to cold approach much so I choose to do so efficiently.
Given that squattin admits that he's mass approaching in order to develop his skills, it's alright for him to have a low ratio while he continues learning. It's no different from having lower win-rates when you're mass ladder gaming in Starcraft, as opposed to only playing a few games a day when you're at your best.
On February 09 2012 17:54 KoveN- wrote:You know when girls say "just be yourself"? Yeh, that's not bullshit, it's true. The community says differently but that's just because they want to sell you products.
"Be yourself" is absolutely bullshit. It's obviously fine if you're a natural or otherwise doing well already, but imagine how pointless it is to tell an awkward overweight nerd to be himself.
Girls have a subconscious interest in telling you to "be yourself": they want to have an easier time discerning who the naturals are because those are the ones who they would like to reproduce with. Given how women rant and rave about how annoying it is that men are clueless when it comes to dating, you would think that they would appreciate PUAs giving awkward guys a clue. But in reality, many women feel very threatened by pick-up, which is bullshit given just how much women's magazines and other media effectively teach them "game" for girls. It's actually quite ironic vitriol that women (particularly feminists) spew against PUAs, given that make-up/push-up bras/heels/plastic surgery are all far more deceptive than actually changing yourself for the better.
If someone was a Starcraft noob, would you tell him to be himself and keep playing like a noob? Or would you tell him to learn build orders, study the game, and improve? At first, yes, he'll be faking it, but eventually those new concepts will become second nature to him and he'll become a better gamer. In other words, "fake it 'til you make it" AKA learning.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kYcRW.jpg)
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