EPThttp://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-08/s-sma082311.php
The PUA community - Page 77
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lithiumdeuteride
96 Posts
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-08/s-sma082311.php | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
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danielrosca
Romania123 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6210/fujix.jpg) | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On February 08 2012 16:59 lithiumdeuteride wrote: Interesting study which gives some insight about the types of women on whom these strategies most often work: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-08/s-sma082311.php If by interesting, you mean women's studies bullshit, then yes. The study uses the Ambivalent Sexism Inventory to determine how sexist you are, except that it measures "sexism" according to feminist ideology. For example, one of the questions asks how strongly you agree with "Feminists are making entirely reasonable demands of men," and the stronger you agree, the less sexist you are and vice versa, even though this is really a political/philosophical question. Another question asks whether you agree with "Men are complete without women," and even though biologists will tell you that most (straight) men are incomplete without a partner, you need to strongly disagree to score low on "benevolent sexism" (feminist euphemism for sexist attitudes against men). All the study shows is that women who conform to politically correct opinions, as determined by feminists, are more likely to find PUA techniques appealing. Considering how terrible (or nonexistent) feminist dating advice is, it actually makes complete sense PUA techniques work on women who are "sexist" (e.g. disapproved by feminists), especially since that includes most women. | ||
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surfinbird1
Germany999 Posts
On February 08 2012 18:05 sunprince wrote: If by interesting, you mean women's studies bullshit, then yes. The study uses the Ambivalent Sexism Inventory to determine how sexist you are, except that it measures "sexism" according to feminist ideology. For example, one of the questions asks how strongly you agree with "Feminists are making entirely reasonable demands of men," and the stronger you agree, the less sexist you are and vice versa, even though this is really a political/philosophical question. Another question asks whether you agree with "Men are complete without women," and even though biologists will tell you that most (straight) men are incomplete without a partner, you need to strongly disagree to score low on "benevolent sexism" (feminist euphemism for sexist attitudes against men). All the study shows is that women who conform to politically correct opinions, as determined by feminists, are more likely to find PUA techniques appealing. Considering how terrible (or nonexistent) feminist dating advice is, it actually makes complete sense PUA techniques work on women who are "sexist" (e.g. disapproved by feminists), especially since that includes most women. I would also add that, considering the success rates of some PUAs, this would make a large part of women sexist. And that in turn would make the study highly ironic in itself. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On February 08 2012 18:19 surfinbird1 wrote: I would also add that, considering the success rates of some PUAs, this would make a large part of women sexist. And that in turn would make the study highly ironic in itself. That's nothing special though. Both most men and most women are at the very least slightly sexist. Men and women still have very different roles in society and only a very small subset of the population is completely opposed to that (pure feminists for example) | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
The thing is, there's that girl who is working in the same office as myself just for different project, and I kinda have a crush on her. Anyway, we talk a little almost every day, general stuff. She is kind to me, but doesn't seem to be interested in getting closer. Pretty sure she doesn't have a boyfriend, although we never talked about her personal life. I tried once to talk about that, but she kinda rejected it. Any suggestions? | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
On February 08 2012 12:53 KoveN- wrote: lol hopeless. While I do have some contempt for the majority of the PUA community, I need to mention that you don't actually need to hate on the OP unles you're very bored or somewhat insecure. OP : while I do respect your committment, I feel that your perspective on your own efforts is somewhat flawed. You put a lot of work in becoming a better person and should expect a little more than what you got I think. In this regard, I agree with r.Evo in the sense that I see some wasted potential. I might be wrong but the average lady is not that pretty, not that smart, not that hard to get, and you probably "outweight" the qualities of most by far. Because yes, many women are in my eyes sexist. After a feminine education (single mother), I worshipped women for a time during my teenage days, but I was disappointed to find out that men and women have both their own vices and wrongs. Having found a close-to-perfect girlfriend made me realize that there are plenty of dumb, weak fishes in the sea. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On February 08 2012 22:34 arbiter_md wrote:The thing is, there's that girl who is working in the same office as myself just for different project, and I kinda have a crush on her. Anyway, we talk a little almost every day, general stuff. She is kind to me, but doesn't seem to be interested in getting closer. Pretty sure she doesn't have a boyfriend, although we never talked about her personal life. I tried once to talk about that, but she kinda rejected it. Any suggestions? Due to the danger of sexual harassment claims, you should generally shy away from seduction in the work place, and only aim to close when a coworker more or less throws herself at you. Since that isn't the case for you, I strongly advise you to give up. If you insist on trying, then you will need to opt for an indirect approach consisting of displaying high value and subtly flirting. Kino is out of the question unless she initiates first, and the same goes for any direct indications you are interested in her. From your description, it sounds like you're not too experienced with seduction. If that's the case, it's an even worse idea to pursue your coworker; you should opt instead to practice and develop your skills on other women outside the workplace, so that any mistakes will not also cost you your livelihood. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On February 08 2012 22:52 sunprince wrote: Due to the danger of sexual harassment claims, you should generally shy away from seduction in the work place, and only aim to close when a coworker more or less throws herself at you. Since that isn't the case for you, I strongly advise you to give up. If you insist on trying, then you will need to opt for an indirect approach consisting of displaying high value and subtly flirting. Kino is out of the question unless she initiates first, and the same goes for any direct indications you are interested in her. From your description, it sounds like you're not too experienced with seduction. If that's the case, it's an even worse idea to pursue your coworker; you should opt instead to practice and develop your skills on other women outside the workplace, so that any mistakes will not also cost you your livelihood. Perfect reply right there. Yes, it's doable to pull off stuff like this and get away with it, however it's most likely not worth it. This is pretty much the same level as getting a girl attracted & snatching her number and all that while her dad/mom/brother/boyfriend stands right next to you for the entire discussion without raising any suspicion that you might want to pursue some kind of sexual interest (hurrhurrrwhowoulddoTHAThurrdurr). Even if you succeed in getting intimate with her sooner or later you're suddenly stuck with a semi-awkward relationship at your workplace. Go out there, meet some beautiful girls (there are millions of them <3) and if your co-worker still seems attractive to you after you managed to snack a girl right under the nose of a watchfull eye and can call yourself subtle & efficient.. you might want to give it a try. Or you realize that there are SO MANY cool girls out there that one you barely know isn't worth risking your job for. =P | ||
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HnR)Pride
Canada297 Posts
There is so much, SO MUCH emphasis put on finding true love and putting value in finding 'the one' in modern day Western civilization. It's paramount to your normalcy as a man or woman, if you aren't married by the time you're 30... then what's wrong with you? How did you not find your 'one' by now? Pick up goes against that grain whole-heartedly. It's not about finding the one, finding that one special snowflake that makes you whole. It's about being whole and then finding people to share your whole self with (giving value, receiving value, a core concept of PU). For some people that's just not how life works, they can't imagine being whole on their own and wanting to share their lives with those around them but not having one person who is their other half. Is one of these right or wrong? Funnily enough, this is why arranged marriages work so well in places like India, which is also frowned upon here in the West. Arranged marriages mean that you don't have to worry about finding the one... who you will marry will be determined for you, which means that you can just focus on being the best you that you can be. I'm not advocating arranged marriages or shitting all over true love but both can work and for vastly different reasons. Another reason that PUA is really kind of looked down upon is it's close similarity to marketing, some of the most loathed peoples in the business world are the marketers, and PUA use the information that they have to make themselves more attractive to women just as a marketing team would. Open up any Marketing textbook in the last 10-15 years and you will find some sort of diagram or flow chart for the marketing process. Here's the marketing process and the parallel within the pickup community. First a marketer needs to understand the marketplace and customer needs and wants ... a PUA will look at his location, what kind of women are available and what those women want. A marketer will then design a customer-driven marketing strategy ... a PUA will look use the information he has to develop a plan that will attract women to him whether it be learning a new language or working out or dressing differently. The marketer then creates an integrated marketing program that delivers superior value ... a PUA will use all the information and changes he has made to provide value and make them seem more valuable than other men to women. The marketer hopes to, through all this, build profitable relationships, create customer delight and capture value from the customer in return ... the PUA appears attractive to women and women invest time and energy him, which the man receives value from. But this all sounds so cold and calculated! It is. Western values and ideals make you think that every woman and every man are again some special snowflake that will be loved one way or another, just given time. I'm sorry but sesame street lied to you. You are not special and neither is your girlfriend who 'wouldn't be tricked by your corny lines or silly stories or any of your bs'. People, in the majority, all respond similarly to different stimulus when presented with them. It can be conscious or subconscious. The PUA community largely relies on subconscious cues of attraction that have been studied and observed over time by men and women. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a science, it's definitely not, but the evidence speaks for itself. Women like it when you smile, women like it when you make them laugh, women like to be lead around and they like a man who isn't so distracted by their beauty that they are treated like an old friend who is just catching up. It attracts them, this is something that you can debate on a case by case basis but by and large this is a truth. Women have millions of years of evolution telling them when to release certain hormones when presented with certain male characteristics in certain settings. Your friend or girlfriend or group of friends isn't so smart as to be able to outwit those millions of years of evolution, sorry. The end goal of PUA is dishonest or wrong or somehow abhorrent. This, again, kind of ties in to Western society and it's views on certain issues. In this case we are looking at the stigma of sexuality. Being a sexual man is a dangerous thing we are taught. We should be ashamed of our sexuality, it is dangerous and wrong and we shouldn't want to have sex with multiple women in order to be a gentleman. I don't really buy that and neither do a lot of PUA, when you put it down on paper it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. My sexuality and sexual needs aren't dangerous or wrong, they are a part of me and I'm going to be proud of them and try and satisfy them. That overt sexuality is frowned upon and is a large part of game. I would argue that PUA are more honest about their sexuality than some 'nice but not really so nice' guys. You know the ones, the ones who befriend women with the end goal of transitioning that friendship into a relationship. PUA skips that fluff and a good PUA will not try and trick women into sleeping with them, it is clear all along that that is their goal. The worst stigma involving pick up is tied to female sexuality. Somehow, in our culture, men gain value from sex while women lose value from having sex. Slut shaming is a real and nasty thing while a guy who can bed a lot of women is called a stud or a player, generally a complement. Sex is not a zero-sum game that we are playing. Both parties can and should be happier and better off after a good romp in the hay. Value can be added, just like in business, to both the person selling a good and a person buying a good. Just because squatti has sex with a gorgeous woman does not mean that she is worse off than she was before. He was honest about his intentions and his wants/needs and she had wants/needs that needed to be satisfied as well. Who lost in this scenario, really? How do you win, Mani asked a page or two ago? You win by being a more fulfilled and satisfied person, it's a self-perpetuating cycle. The more fulfilled and satisfied YOU are then the more fulfilled and satisfied you can make others, or add value to their lives. This is at the very core of modern day pick up. Get your shit straightened out, fulfill your needs so that you can fulfill the needs of others and in turn they add value to your life and fulfill your needs. This helps to continue to fill your want/need of being a valuable and useful person and giving more value to others. /end wall of text TL;DR - Modern day pick up is frowned upon, unfairly in my mind, because it takes emphasis from being whole with someone to being whole without someone and flies in the face of stigmas involving sex and that you are special. Sorry, you're not that special and sex isn't a zero-sum game we play. | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5094 Posts
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Flaccid
8835 Posts
On February 08 2012 15:41 Manifesto7 wrote: So what is the end game? How do you win? I'm pretty sure you win by moving in with a porn star and getting fired from Two and a Half Men. | ||
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beg
991 Posts
On February 08 2012 13:44 r.Evo wrote: Both the "it's so easy" and the "just do 500 more sets" aren't the most effective. If you'd like to improve quickly you need to find out where exactly you are and where you want to go. Every guy is different. What is not different are certain rules and concepts. The basic principles of how attraction is generated or transferred are probably the most loose ones (here you can pull off incredibly insane stuff that still works), how comfort & rapport works is known to great detail and rather intuitive. Escalation is another thing that works very streamlined in most cases. Despite all the hate Mystery gets for his A3 model because it's horribly outdated (which it is, if it's about getting laid quickly), if you look at the principles behind his techniques they still apply in any other pickup method. If you e.g. compare the basic mindsets of direct vs indirect they both have certain timeframes where they build up attraction, comfort/rapport and they both have to physically escalate. Now, HOW the concept behind the A/C parts is actually applied is entirely different. That is what makes pickup both incredibly easy and incredibly hard. tl;dr: The method I'm usually suggesting for new guys is to read any PUA material they find with the mindset of "What is this trying to do? How does it do it?" - What values do certain routines convey? What happened in my personal life that would convey the same value? Which values would a girl I'd like to be with appreciate? Am I representing those values? Why not? In field try to be in the zone. Push away all the theoretical bullshit and focus on what is going on right now at this exact moment. Try to think about pickup theory like being an eagle in the sky that merely observes what's going on (hint: observation != interpretation) and can draw conclusions once he's well-informed and about pickup praxis like being down there in the jungle and fighting your way through it. If you let your theory get in the way of your praxis or your praxis in the way of your theory, you're slowing yourself down unnecessarily. --------------------------------------- To draw the analogy to e.g. martial arts or dancing, while you're in a (sparring-) fight or at a party dancing during a song, the second you will start thinking about wtf you're doing here it is highly likely that you trip or somehow fuck up. Once you're done you can re-evaluate what you did, if it made sense and replay it in your head till it makes sense. Next time a similar situation occurs you (hopefull) will use the new behaviour. If you didn't , you mentally slap yourself afterwards and go for it again. The level beyond that is using the "pauses" during a song, during a fight or just during something you do on 100% autopilot to re-evaluate the situation. For pickup this means that you will, with time, have certain spots that occur SO DAMN OFTEN that you can run them entirely on autopilot. You just spit out the stuff you used a hundred times with success while thinking about stuff that's new and different in this specific situation. --------------------------------------- If you understand what I tried to say in the last two paragraphs you probably will understand why I call both the "ima work on my inner self before approaching more girls"- and the "ima just do 500 more aproaches"-factions both retarded in their methods when it comes to effectively improving. @beg: What's your situation? What are your problems? What's your history with them gurls? Kinda hard to help you out without some info. =P my biggest problem is being too afraid to really get started. every now and then i did some approaches, often enough with good results, but it takes so much fucking courage to REALLY get going hardcore. when i was asking for your mercy, i was more hoping for you to say "SURE, LET'S GO OUT : D" i dont see any kind of advice to get me going, but you surely can try your luck. i even tried hypnosis already.  | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
On February 08 2012 22:34 arbiter_md wrote: I thought to ask for advices from here, since I have some problems with that. The thing is, there's that girl who is working in the same office as myself just for different project, and I kinda have a crush on her. Anyway, we talk a little almost every day, general stuff. She is kind to me, but doesn't seem to be interested in getting closer. Pretty sure she doesn't have a boyfriend, although we never talked about her personal life. I tried once to talk about that, but she kinda rejected it. Any suggestions? You're stuck in the friend zone brah. Its because you're not used to escalating and getting sexual. The longer you know a girl without getting in her pants. The more she will lose interest. This is not every case, but is in general the case. http://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-move-faster http://www.girlschase.com/content/just-friends-mans-worst-nightmare You have whats called a one-itis. Work on getting the skill, not the girl. | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
On February 09 2012 01:09 beg wrote: my biggest problem is being too afraid to really get started. every now and then i did some approaches, often enough with good results, but it takes so much fucking courage to REALLY get going hardcore. when i was asking for your mercy, i was more hoping for you to say "SURE, LET'S GO OUT : D" i dont see any kind of advice to get me going, but you surely can try your luck. i even tried hypnosis already. That's how I felt. I read the game back in 2006. I could not for the life of me get started. I dabbled but I just couldn't get the courage to go out consistently. When I was in Seattle, I tried it for a month (opened maybe 2-3 sets a night). When I came to California, for 4 years, I couldn't get myself to go out. I would just stay at home playing video games on the weekend and listen to RSD Foundations and Blueprint lol. I had massive approach anxiety, I remember taking a bootcamp in September of 2010 and I couldn't even do newbie "Hi" missions where I would just go around saying hi to people. It wasn’t until I found DJ Fuji at the PUA summit back at the end of 2010. He didn’t contact me till Jan of 2011. That’s when my life started changing. The mind set changed. Standing around in the club wasn’t an option. Opening 3-5 sets wasn’t enough. I had to be in a set at least 80% of the time while in the club. Opening 20 sets was considered a bare minimum, his militaristic and hardcore background and strong frame really affected how I viewed pickup. I honestly think that if I never had someone to yell at me, I personally don’t think I would have been disciplined to change all by myself. You soon come to realize that pickup isn't something you can dabble in. Unless you are already good.... which means you wouldn't need to learn this anyways, its not something you can do once a month and expect any results. Its pretty much do or die, and sacrifice the next 2 - 3 years going out every week. And from then on, I was never the same. Every day, I would live and breathe pickup. I would go to work, but I would browse casanovacrew.com. When I got off work, I would go straight to the gym. After the gym, I would grab food and go to his place and listen to his coaching calls with his students and do work for him. I wouldn’t get home till midnight every day. Every day I would dream about the weekend. When Friday came, I went to the gym, got a quick workout, went back home, cleaned my room, showered and got ready and went out. If I had no wings, I would go out by myself. Then on Saturdays, I would drive to San Diego and meet up with his other students and we would wing together. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
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lithiumdeuteride
96 Posts
On February 08 2012 18:05 sunprince wrote: If by interesting, you mean women's studies bullshit, then yes. The study uses the Ambivalent Sexism Inventory to determine how sexist you are, except that it measures "sexism" according to feminist ideology. For example, one of the questions asks how strongly you agree with "Feminists are making entirely reasonable demands of men," and the stronger you agree, the less sexist you are and vice versa, even though this is really a political/philosophical question. Another question asks whether you agree with "Men are complete without women," and even though biologists will tell you that most (straight) men are incomplete without a partner, you need to strongly disagree to score low on "benevolent sexism" (feminist euphemism for sexist attitudes against men). All the study shows is that women who conform to politically correct opinions, as determined by feminists, are more likely to find PUA techniques appealing. Considering how terrible (or nonexistent) feminist dating advice is, it actually makes complete sense PUA techniques work on women who are "sexist" (e.g. disapproved by feminists), especially since that includes most women. That is also interesting. Thanks for the clarification. I don't have SpringerLink access, so I didn't read the original publication. Perhaps the results are more political than scientific. Maybe the most that can be concluded is "Aggressive pick-up techniques don't work well on feminists", which seems a bit self-evident. Don't conflate the article's opinions with my own, though. I merely thought the study was interesting, as it was purportedly scientific and somewhat on-topic. | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
On February 09 2012 03:31 IntoTheWow wrote: Why do PUAs reffer it as "opening sets". Isnt' that just as an equivalent to "talking to girls"? What's the difference? It's only 3 more letters to write one phrase than another... Just a habit from reading "The Game". All my wings know what it means and most people are clueless so its like a code word. I tell my wings to open a set in front of the girls and they have no idea what it means. | ||
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