That post shows a complete misunderstanding of a very basic principle in pickup. He does neither understand what a solid DHV story is for, when it is used and what it accomplishes in certain situations. That's why he claims that they don't work very well in general.
About DHVs
Thats the difference between you and me. You try to actively micro manage value. To try and raise your value up and by knocking her value down. You try to give off the perception of higher value. Well the video pretty much tells you why you are wrong. Not going to bother summarizing it. I linked the exact time in the video you should listen to. See, unlike you, I don't need to micro manage value. I just make the girl laugh
When you actually have real value. You don't have the need to subtly embed value stories. I don't need to tell a DHV gym story. She can just look at my biceps. I don't need to tell a DHV university story. She can tell from my vocabulary. When I tell girls I work at McDonalds (A DLV story). It wont matter. She won't believe it because she can sense I got something going for me. By always trying to tell DHV stories, you're basically telling yourself you're not really attractive on the inside . Hurts your inner game brah.
To step back for a bit, look at the thread you're posting in. It's called the PUA community, not the get a girlfriend thread. The premise is to go out and get girls for very short-term relationships, not to land one girl who you may very well end up marrying later. If some of the people who lurk here do want girlfriends, then they need to read carefully and determine what actions give off a player vibe, and what actions give off a sincere vibe that girls look for in potential boyfriends. Otherwise this thread is about bedding chicks in a quick and efficient manner, to cut out all of roundabout stuff in between.
Uh, I'm not sure where you get that idea from that I'm here to advocate LTRs. Yes, I am in a relationship since almost 1 1/2 years. However, a relationship in which I have an arrangement where I am able to have casual sex. A relationship where I am having threesomes together with my girlfriend. It was the same for me in my last two (comparatively short) relationships. In fact, my entire connection with the PUA community at the moment revolves around not finding a girl to randomly fuck, but finding girls who comply to the above. I'm also one of the few people who are able to teach other guys HOW they can actually manage and find a healthy relationship with the above benefits.
That's a whole different level than just trying to get laid on a weekend. I've been there, I've done that and that's why I recognize major mistakes in other peoples stories.
In the other post where he said he had gone to the nightclub, and didn't score, he was pointing out reasons why the deck was stacked heavily against him from the start. Why are you flaming him for this?
Try and put yourself in this scenario: You failed to achieve your goal in a certain situation. You explain how the deck was stacked against you and why it was harder than usual to achieve the previously set goal. This gives you an easy way out because it means some higher entity you have no control over is in charge of your misery. It takes responsibility away from yourself and your actions and that's why it's a horrible attitude to improve from. It also is hypocritical to claim at the same time that you're working on yourself. You aren't.
That post shows a complete misunderstanding of a very basic principle in pickup. He does neither understand what a solid DHV story is for, when it is used and what it accomplishes in certain situations. That's why he claims that they don't work very well in general.
Thats the difference between you and me. You try to actively micro manage value. To try and raise your value up and by knocking her value down. You try to give off the perception of higher value. Well the video pretty much tells you why you are wrong. Not going to bother summarizing it. I linked the exact time in the video you should listen to. See, unlike you, I don't need to micro manage value. I just make the girl laugh
When you actually have real value. You don't have the need to subtly embed value stories. I don't need to tell a DHV gym story. She can just look at my biceps. I don't need to tell a DHV university story. She can tell from my vocabulary. When I tell girls I work at McDonalds (A DLV story). It wont matter. She won't believe it because she can sense I got something going for me. By always trying to tell DHV stories, you're basically telling yourself you're not really attractive on the inside . Hurts your inner game brah.
You don't just make the girl laugh. If you were able to do that you'd roll in here with 20 lay reports on a weekly basis. The reality you're constructing here is what you would LIKE it to be. Judging from your success, it isn't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The difference between my approach to DHV and Fujis is that he is lieing-for-kids to avoid people getting completely wrong ideas, while I'm talking about the underlying concept. Yes, if you perceive yourself to be of lower value it sucks. Yes, if you come of as bragging or lying, it sucks. All obvious.
The concept behind a healthy relationship with DHV stories is the following: Assume person A and person B. They have never talked with each other before. They walk up to each other and start talking. Taking looks and the environment out of the equation, this is the moment where they start judging each others value. It is impossible to communicate without communicating value. It completely is.
Just like ANY interaction between humans involves communicating ("you can't not communicate"), every communication between humans communicates (their) value(s).
Now, what is the goal of a DHV story or DHV elements in a story? (the latter is probably more correct, but since Fuji and therefore you say that both are bad it doesn't really matter)
The goal is to communicate a higher value. (durr). ANY story or element that increases your perceived social value in the process is a DHV story/element. If a story or element conveys If you, as in your example, tell a girl that you work at McDonalds without displaying any of the qualities she thinks a real employee would have, that IS IN FACT A DHV ELEMENT BECAUSE IT IMPLIES YOU ARE _NOT_ WORKING THERE.
What that communicates is: -I don't take everything serious. -I have value that I don't have to show off. -You show that you understand irony and have brains.
If you are driving a lambo and TELL the girl that you have your awesome lambo park outside it is no longer a DHV story. It is you applying the concept in a wrong way and generating a DLV story in the process.
PS: Before you say "butbut Fuji said!!1" - since he has a larger audience he is picking the lesser of two evils. If you tell people that all DHV elements are stupid and that people who have high value don't communicate them (which is utter bullshit since it's impossible to do so), you make sure they don't even have to deal with the above concept. However, once you are able to analyze the way you communicate based on the above you enable yourself to correctly convey what you want to convey. ---> More choices, more possibilities, more flexibility ----> Profit.
PPS: Now, considering that your AWESOME McDonalds DLV story is in fact a DHV story that you quite frequently use and that apparently works... how's your innergame brah? Must mean that you're telling yourself that you're not really attractive. Oh, wait, I just said that has nothing to do with each other. fml. qq.
PPPS: To avoid being called a keyboard jockey because I'm explaining what I'm talking about, heres the tl;dr. You can't communicate without communicating value -> it is impossible to not use DLV/DHV elements -> You are applying the concept of DHV in a wrong way.
On April 26 2012 07:48 r.Evo wrote: Yes, I am in a relationship since almost 1 1/2 years. However, a relationship in which I have an arrangement where I am able to have casual sex.
Let me get this straight. A guy who's been in a relationship for over a year, who doesn't do cold approaches anymore, is arguing with a guy who's been with nearly 20 girls in that same time frame (yes its gone up a lot thanks to POF), opens 40 sets a week, and shadows a guru. Not trying to knock you down but if you are going over my life history then don't cry about it when I talk about yours. Everything you talk about sounds like you quoted it from a text book. Nothing you say sounds like real life results or feedback.
You're still missing the point of DHV stories. Its a conscious, I repeat a conscious tactic that MysteryMethod users use to try and increase his "perceived" value.
If you actually have value and it leaks out of you subconsciously, that's not implementing DHV tactics. Thats just.... wait for it..... being a cool dude. What a concept! I'm sure I'm subcommunicating value all the time and girls pick up. But its done unconsciously. I'm not in my head going "oh here comes another DHV story so I sound super cool! but deep down I'm a nerd and I don't have anything of value so I'm trying to trick the girl!".
And the whole point of the Lambo story DJ Fuji used was just a story as an example. You seem to get hung up on specific stories or analogies. Ever heard of exaggeration to make a point? It tells the story more effectively and conveys the point across. If I told a story and I said "Hey guys, check out that dude, hes richer than Bill Gates". Instead of getting the point that I am simply saying "hes rich", you would be the genius arguing that in fact he has less money than BIll Gates because Bill Gates has ~50 billion dollars and that the other dude has 3 million dollars. (waits for r.Evo to copy and paste exact net worth of Bill Gates from Wikipedia to prove my entire post as incorrect lol!)
Erhm. Where in my post did I state with how many girls I had sex during that time period? Not sure why you're descrediting yourself by pointing out that I'm having more casual sex than you since a longer time and continued having it AS A PART OF MY RELATIONSHIP.
ANY improvement that you try to achieve follows this simple chain:
That is why Mysteries concept starts off with a conscious effort.
If you're stuck at 1) you have no idea this stuff exists. If you're stuck at 2) you realize what you don't know. Stuck at 3) is the person citing quotes. Getting to 4) is the goal of most tasks.
Just because you do something unconsciously does not mean that you dont do it. The "cool dude" does implement DHV tactics, he's just not aware of them anymore.
While I'm elaborating on how the process from getting from one to another works (because without knowing that you end up with doing 9000 sets without purpose and that is why you're ratio is so bad when it comes to this), you're defending a position without any background.
Just because you had to do thousands of sets because you're inable to comprehend these concepts does not mean that a person can't get the same - or even better - results with a third of that time if they understand how the principles behind all this stuff come together on a very basic level.
Edit: I just realized you're claiming that I'm getting hung up on details like the lambo story when I didn't even talk about it anymore. wpwp. Stop accusing me of mistakes you're making. -_-
On April 26 2012 08:49 r.Evo wrote: 1) Unconscious not-knowing 2) Conscious not-knowing 3) Conscious knowing 4) Unconscious knowing
Oh cool! You can quote David Deangelo who ripped it off Noel Burch back in the 70"s. Why would I need you to rehash his stuff when he can just tell me personally via Facebook?
See what I mean when I say more keyboard jockey stuff? There are far more people reading material than actually going out. Don't think you are the select few who just read all day long. In fact most PUAs (or aspiring ones) pretty much have ALL read this stuff. Why are you quoting things dated 5+ years ago like it some sort of new epiphany?
Sorry, I learned that type of stuff during my NLP training. I am quoting those things because you don't grasp them. You just said that:
If you actually have value and it leaks out of you subconsciously, that's not implementing DHV tactics. Thats just.... wait for it..... being a cool dude.
... which in return shows that you aren't aware that subconscious acting is a result of having put in conscious effort before that. It is just another level of understanding.
PS: Why exactly do you keep linking your pickup guru facebook friends? Are you trying to tell me that... you're cool?
I'm trying to internet DHV you bro. Is my value higher now? Haha.
I'm going to not respond to your posts anymore as its a complete waste of time. You are certainly welcome to join in on my future epic posts as I will be putting more infield videos and pictures. Why bother wasting your time quoting ebooks? People can torrent themselves, they aren't stupid.
You aren't responding to the main points in my post anyway, so that works for me. Avoiding things that could make you think about what you're spewing around is certainly a useful skill for the stubborn.
Like, I just told you the only reason I'm throwing those quotes around is because judging from your posts you don't seem to understand them. Which in turn proves my point that you call everything you don't understand or can't apply keyboard jocking. Hell, you even call the concepts behind what you CAN apply keyboard jocking which doesn't work like that in the real world.
Please check which sentence of you I'm quoting and try coming up with something that's not related to it so it seems as if the accusation is successfully deflected. Oh wait, you just did that. =/
That post shows a complete misunderstanding of a very basic principle in pickup. He does neither understand what a solid DHV story is for, when it is used and what it accomplishes in certain situations. That's why he claims that they don't work very well in general.
Thats the difference between you and me. You try to actively micro manage value. To try and raise your value up and by knocking her value down. You try to give off the perception of higher value. Well the video pretty much tells you why you are wrong. Not going to bother summarizing it. I linked the exact time in the video you should listen to. See, unlike you, I don't need to micro manage value. I just make the girl laugh
When you actually have real value. You don't have the need to subtly embed value stories. I don't need to tell a DHV gym story. She can just look at my biceps. I don't need to tell a DHV university story. She can tell from my vocabulary. When I tell girls I work at McDonalds (A DLV story). It wont matter. She won't believe it because she can sense I got something going for me. By always trying to tell DHV stories, you're basically telling yourself you're not really attractive on the inside . Hurts your inner game brah.
It was a good video I learned a lot (I watched the whole video), but not learning how to tell a DHV story is ruining your game and I don't know why you neglect it so much.
DHV story
It is clear from the presentation that Fuji doesn't understand the concept of a DHV story just from the way he explained it.
Lets break it down
His "DHV story" example was actually a DLV story. Bragging is DLV, just throwing in words in there for no reason and no way to back it up is DLV, etc, etc. If you are going to do a gambit where you show pre-selection for example, they will be in situations where it is impossible to prove or disprove and you don't really have any other way out.
I never tried dating a stripper, its not my kind of thing but here's a blog of a guy who thinks Mystery is a crock of shit and never pulled a stripper before, and tried doing it using mysteries I have a stripper girlfriend gambit and ended up pulling a stripper. http://pointlessbanter.net/2008/11/07/how-to-pick-up-a-stripper-without-spending-money-on-her/. No I do not think he could have done it without. If you have ever been to a strip club before you instantly know that using regular natural game would not work at all because of her initial attitude towards you to try and milk as much money as she can. I've seen heaps of idiots lose hundreds by "falling in love" with a stripper and thinking he had a chance, that's exactly how they work.
Fuji's "Neutral story" example was slightly DHV, it showed he was an interesting person. Women like stories, why do you think they read so many books. When you just state things just as a matter of fact, its no where near as interesting as when you put it in a story.
His "DLV story" was actually a DHV story. Showing how you have overcome certain struggles in the past and then being able to express where you are now is DHV. That's why it worked better. Haven't you noticed that his DLV story sounded a lot like my first DHV story example about having a goal becoming a buff movie star but implying you were a helpless skinny ass dude to begin with and then look where you are now. It shows you can goal set, and you can achieve those goals despite all odds. Being humble is DHV, bragging is DLV, showing you can overcome obstacles, is DHV.
Lets put it in evolutionary terms. It shows, survivability. Telling a goal achievement story triggers the survivability switch, and survivability is one of the main characteristics that women look into males. That's why that kind of story works so well, but its also one of the cheesiest and hardest to learn when you haven't done anything that interesting.
Part of the reason women like guys from rough districts, is that these guys also have great stories to tell. If you were ever in the graffiti or drug scene, you would know that a lot of these guys have been through some tough shit, the stories they tell can be attractive to women but they are also pretty hardcore, so you don't feel cheesy at all saying it.
When most people do it artificially, they sound like bragging, because they focus too much on the now instead of what happened in the past and future, she can see where you are now so there is no point. When you tell one of these stories, focus on the past (your survival and achievements), and the future (your goals).
A DLV story is coming out like this. "Hey slut, wanna have a fuck in my 5 star hotel with all my other bitches, I have a lambo we can use to drive there too" or *being creepy and looking down "I have no friends, I have never had a girlfriend, I don't have a job, but lets have sex anyway". That might work on "fools mate" but it won't work most of the time.
Fuji got his DLV and DHV stories back-to-front. No wonder his DLV stories worked better than his DHV stories.
The best DHV stories I've used are the ones that are told like a story. If you want to use a pre-selection story, you can talk about your ex-girlfriend, some girls love that because it makes them feel better about themselves, and you also get pre-selected, however they are not the ones I like using. The stories I use right now are crazy adventure stories, they are real stories, but I've learned to weave them into an interesting story. Ironically they are kinda like the crazy stories you hear on TL blogs. They are easy to talk about and easy to captivate people. Like the time I tried to score free pot from some friends friend at a bar and then all my friends bailed on me and I ended up tagging a long. The next morning I didn't know you needed a key to get back in and it was a one way air lock double door, I didn't have the keys to get back in, and I borrowed my friends clothes that were oversized and needed to hold up with one hand, and work was in one hour. Everything I did, in trying to approach every stranger I could to see if they had keys to get back in, getting stuck in the lobby looking like an idiot, to the hot british girl I chatted up on the elevator talking about this exact same story, to finally getting to work 2 hours late. That's a DHV story too.
However that's material I use for when I'm less comfortable because they are easy to use. I am working on more abstract gambits, so I can make my work more interesting but they take a lot more practice. "What do you do for work" comes up a lot, and so far what I have is ok, but I know I can make it a lot better and more interesting.
Micro managing value
Actively micro-managing value is still important you implied it yourself a long time ago, with calibration. As soon as you start calibrating you are micro-managing value. The reason it didn't work for him early on is I suspect he was using 8-10 material on a 7 and below because he was practising. In this case you don't need to use negs, you don't need to use DHV, you can just simply chat her up. Fuji simply miscalibrated, then he started using 7-8 material on a 7-8 and no wonder it worked!
Once you start working on better looking girls you need more going for you early on, sometimes you can't simply rock up to them and say "what's up". Have you ever been blown out before you have even opened your mouth "I don't want to talk to you!", I have. Learning how to mask DLV and express DHV on approach made a big difference for me. Instead of walking right up directly, you walk at an angle, big difference, it masks DLV because it shows you aren't trying to hit on her. However with an 8 I will walk right up, 7 and below its the same, except they get nervous instead and will ignore you so you are better off sitting next to them and letting them get comfortable with you and then turning around and finding an excuse for them to talk to you. Just a few days ago I chatted up a 7 by pretending she knocked over my glass when she sat down and then we started talking about dancing and where she was from. Again this is micro-management of value, using calibration.
The 3 second rule, the longer it takes for you to sum up the courage to walk up to her, the more it shows you are trying to pick up, and the less confidence that is expressed from you. Things like that, will make a difference.
Knowledge vs Practice
Fuji makes some good points, but I can't help but think that for every amazing point that he came up with, he came up with the wrong conclusion. Applicability was probably the one thing I did agree with.
Remember Tyler Durden was one of those massive knowledge guys. He prioritised knowledge over everything, he would rather watch the pro's duke it out, than do it himself. And while he might have been a keyboard jockey at first, he advanced very very very quickly.
That's the thing. There's nothing wrong with having lots of knowledge if you know how to handle it. I handle things the same way in Starcraft. I probably spend more time than anybody else writing down concepts and creating strategies. As it turns how, my tourney play was 1 to 2 ranks higher than my ladder play because I didn't play much ladder and would throw a lot of games perfecting strategies.
I played in SEA tournaments even though I was in Diamond because I could hold my own against High masters and GMs playing strategic and mixup play, and in DRTL I never lost a game. It wasn't like I cheesed every game either, I just was on another level when it came to metagaming, I had created a bo3 combination of builds specifically tailored to players. The more games I played against someone, the more likely I was gonna win consistently. And metagaming isn't something that applies in ladder.
Day[9] was a huge knowledge guy, but he knew how to handle it. He had entire gameplans mapped out for different maps, but when he made a decision he stuck to it, and he didn't dilly dally in-between. That's the key.
Having tonnes of knowledge is fine, you just gotta make sure that you stick to something and you make a decision quickly. You gotta make decisions and stick to them! Flash is a player who has gameplans completely mapped out, Jaedong is a guy who spontaneously gameplans, it doesn't matter, just make sure that you make a decision and you stick to it. If you do it right, you can predict how the other person is gonna react, in starcraft and in pick up, its the same.
People are predictable, I have builds that predict how the person is gonna react and then counter that reaction. Sometimes there will be branches, where the person substitutes another predictable choice, and I have a counter to that too. You can map out routines in pick up, it is possible.
I spend a lot of time on knowledge compared to pick up. I don't spend a lot of time picking up (which might inflate my stats a bit), but my ratio is pretty high I have only been blow out once in the past 2 years (before I even opened my mouth "I don't want to talk to you!" which spurred my interest in PUA in the first place) and gotten closes almost every single time after that, and I daresay its because of the knowledge I've garnered from both books and hanging around naturals. I barely have trouble with women at all compared to how I used to.
It just depends what type of person you are and that's where I totally agree with Fuji on applicability.
Why do you write a wall of text to argue something that was not the intent of the presenters main point? If you got the big picture, you wouldn't be arguing.
Since when did DJ Fuji ever say "Here is a good DHV story, I will share it with you".
His first point was:
1. Most guys mess up and don't know how to tell a proper DHV story (if you disagree with this, find 20 random dudes from lairs, hire a demo girl, have them tell DHV stories, and then ask the girl in the survey if she though the stories were weird/lame/bragging/lying). DJ Fuji then proceeds to tell a bad DHV story on purpose (let me repeat, on purpose, I gotta baby walk you through the speech because you guys fail comprehension) with blown out exaggerations. How the hell did you interpret that as anything otherwise? Is he trying to tell a perfect DHV story? No hes not. Hes telling a bad DHV story, a DHV story that most newbs in the community tell. In which case, it comes across as bragging if true, or comes across as lying because its incongruent. Most guys tell DHV stories that are pre-scripted. Its usually out of context, random, and out of the blue. Do you think DJ Fuji really runs around and tells chicks he drive a Lambo and dates strippers? Seriously? Seriously bro? Seriously? Really? Seriously? Hes voted the top 10 PUA of 2010 and was a MysteryMethod instructor for Mystery and Mehow for 2 years, I think he knows what a DHV story is bro.
2. His second point is, a perfect DHV story become like a normal story. Which again, if you wan't to argue that, go right ahead, I dont think you would disagree. Now some times if the conversation is about something I did, for example, we are talking about traveling, and I so happened to have gone to Germany and I tell her my adventures of Germany. That may come across as a DHV story, but again, its the intent. The intent intent intent. I'm just sharing a cool NORMAL story. I'm not conspiring the next DHV story like a reactive dungeons and dragons nerd to try and spike my value and impress her. The difference is the intent.
3. His third point is that a DHV story is an intentional story designed to raise your value. Its intentional. I repeat, its a intentional effort to raise value. Let me repeat one more time, its intentional lmao. And its NOT real value either. Its a "perceived" value. Attractive men don't craft intentional DHV stories. Again, you will probably will misinterpret and tell me.... but but casanova... but but Brat Pitt's stories have value in them, he is an amazing actor, and adopts kids from Africa, he does noble things. The difference again is that hes not intentionally spiking them to make himself seem cool. People who really are cool don't need to show people how cool they are. People who are really really rich, dont need to show people how rich they are. People who are really smart don't need to tell people how smart they are. How is this concept difficult to understand? When you become attractive person, you know deep down you are already attractive, why would you have the need to intentionally craft out stories to bump up your value? NO! You tell normal stories. Its not a hard concept. The main point is the INTENT and the PURPOSE of the DHV story. Its not the delivery, its not the word choice, its why the fuck are you using a DHV story in the first place. Do you think Kobe Bryant needs to tell a DHV story to get laid? Do you think Jonny Depp needs to tell DHV stories to get girls? Do you think inside his head, hes thinking "OMG, let me tell this girl a story to increase my value". Do you think that ever goes through an attractive man's head? Again, its the intent. The inner game aspect, the intent of the DHV is bad for you.
And no, calibration is not managing value. Calibration is knowing when to pull when to push, when to escalate, what is appropriate thing to say at the time and what is not. It has nothing to do with micromanaging value. It has nothing to do with worry about how the girl perceives you. An example of calibration is knowing that shes ready to be kissed (one example). Its not "omg, shes sees me as low value, let me craft up a DHV story like a gnome troll".
Bottom line, stop wasting your time micromanaging value.
Learn core conversational skills, learn how to be funny, learn how to flirt and tease. It will help you way more than running around crafting DHV stories. Do you see naturals micro manage value? No. What you see is.... they go up, make the girl laugh, then proceed to make out.
On April 27 2012 01:09 squattincassanova wrote: Bottom line, stop wasting your time micromanaging value.
Learn core conversational skills, learn how to be funny, learn how to flirt and tease. It will help you way more than running around crafting DHV stories. Do you see naturals micro manage value? No. What you see is.... they go up, make the girl laugh, then proceed to make out.
Every time you consciously make an effort to be funny, or flirt, or converse in a flowing manner, you are trying to show the girl value. This is what pick up is, it is in a shallow sense showing enough value to the girl to get her to be intimate with you, and on a deeper level it is improving your self to the point where you don't need to make an effort to show this value because you radiate value with every action. Now, why are you totally discarding story telling as an aspect of improving your self? Why not internalise good story telling technique? Because DJ Fuji said so. His idea of a DHV story does not line up with any other version of DHV story I have heard. The DHV part of the story requires the listener to read between the lines to discern positive traits of the storyteller.
Naturals don't micromanage value, but I would argue that anyone trying to learn game should be trying to micromanage value. It's why you open set after set after set, to learn techniques that make you attractive. You learn the flow of conversation, which threads lead where, which deliveries work best, when to smile. Because if you didn't want to internalise these techniques you would be working on becoming an attractive man (getting a good body, learning fashion, picking up cool hobbies) without ever having to practice talking to girls.
On April 27 2012 01:09 squattincassanova wrote: Bottom line, stop wasting your time micromanaging value.
Learn core conversational skills, learn how to be funny, learn how to flirt and tease. It will help you way more than running around crafting DHV stories. Do you see naturals micro manage value? No. What you see is.... they go up, make the girl laugh, then proceed to make out.
Every time you consciously make an effort to be funny, or flirt, or converse in a flowing manner, you are trying to show the girl value. This is what pick up is, it is in a shallow sense showing enough value to the girl to get her to be intimate with you, and on a deeper level it is improving your self to the point where you don't need to make an effort to show this value because you radiate value with every action. Now, why are you totally discarding story telling as an aspect of improving your self? Why not internalise good story telling technique? Because DJ Fuji said so. His idea of a DHV story does not line up with any other version of DHV story I have heard. The DHV part of the story requires the listener to read between the lines to discern positive traits of the storyteller.
Naturals don't micromanage value, but I would argue that anyone trying to learn game should be trying to micromanage value. It's why you open set after set after set, to learn techniques that make you attractive. You learn the flow of conversation, which threads lead where, which deliveries work best, when to smile. Because if you didn't want to internalise these techniques you would be working on becoming an attractive man (getting a good body, learning fashion, picking up cool hobbies) without ever having to practice talking to girls.
Humor, flirting, teasing, dominance, these are true qualities and true value. These are the true traits of a confident attractive man.
Telling a DHV story with the sole purpose of impressing a girl is reactive seeking and not alpha, not attractive, and certainly will hinder your overall growth. Its the mind set that I am arguing, not the specific outer game arguments. I am not saying don't show value. Please DO give value. Attractive guys give off value ALL the time. The difference is they aren't reaction seeking and certainly aren't doing it in a manipulative way to try and fake impress the girl.
On April 27 2012 01:09 squattincassanova wrote: Bottom line, stop wasting your time micromanaging value.
Learn core conversational skills, learn how to be funny, learn how to flirt and tease. It will help you way more than running around crafting DHV stories. Do you see naturals micro manage value? No. What you see is.... they go up, make the girl laugh, then proceed to make out.
Every time you consciously make an effort to be funny, or flirt, or converse in a flowing manner, you are trying to show the girl value. This is what pick up is, it is in a shallow sense showing enough value to the girl to get her to be intimate with you, and on a deeper level it is improving your self to the point where you don't need to make an effort to show this value because you radiate value with every action. Now, why are you totally discarding story telling as an aspect of improving your self? Why not internalise good story telling technique? Because DJ Fuji said so. His idea of a DHV story does not line up with any other version of DHV story I have heard. The DHV part of the story requires the listener to read between the lines to discern positive traits of the storyteller.
Naturals don't micromanage value, but I would argue that anyone trying to learn game should be trying to micromanage value. It's why you open set after set after set, to learn techniques that make you attractive. You learn the flow of conversation, which threads lead where, which deliveries work best, when to smile. Because if you didn't want to internalise these techniques you would be working on becoming an attractive man (getting a good body, learning fashion, picking up cool hobbies) without ever having to practice talking to girls.
Humor, flirting, teasing, dominance, these are true qualities and true value. These are the true traits of a confident attractive man.
Telling a DHV story with the sole purpose of impressing a girl is reactive seeking and not alpha, not attractive, and certainly will hinder your overall growth. Its the mind set that I am arguing, not the specific outer game arguments. I am not saying don't show value. Please DO give value. Attractive guys give off value ALL the time. The difference is they aren't reaction seeking and certainly aren't doing it in a manipulative way to try and fake impress the girl.
First of all, I think you and me have a different definition of a DHV story. A good DHV story is never looking for a reaction from the girl, it is simply to subtly display value. DJ Fuji's argument is that most guys can't be subtle which I think is a very weak argument against DHV stories. A whole bunch of pick up is about being very subtle, subtle about your intent, subtle with your displaying of value no matter what the method of delivery is.
Second of all, a DHV story is a tool, just like humour and flirting and push/pull and a bunch of other techniques. I totally agree that reaction seeking behaviour lowers value, but that is completely beside the point. DJ Fuji has presented DHV stories as not spontaneous, hard to pull off, and reaction seeking and concluded they are a bad tool. In reality they CAN be an effective tool if used correctly.
I don't see why he (and therefore you) completely disregards what is potentially a useful thing to learn.
I get the point you guys are trying to make. I get it. You certainly want to come across as a cool dude. From an outer game perspective, sure, you want to be valuable. I get it. I'm talking about a different angle. I'm talking about the long term end game mentality.
This is where you have to use critical thinking because in Pickup, you can get two different opposing advice and they are applicable but its at different circumstances and changes base on your skill level.
Take the advice "Just have fun when you go out".
Can you see how this advice is both GOOD and BAD.
If you don't have fun, the girl will see it and your negative vibe will permeate everywhere around you. You will also likely burn out and you will likely quit because going out has such a negative image of pain in your head. But on the flip side, if all you do is half fun, you are likely to not be pushing yourself, thus causing yourself to be stuck in comfort zone. Perhaps you leave the set immediately after it becomes hard, or you don't approach the hard sets and you stick with the easy ones. Sure its fun, but your long term growth slows down.
This is why in pickup, each advice has different angles. Its never purely right or wrong, you just need to be able to think for yourself and figure out when and where its applicable. When I talk down on DHV, I'm not saying don't appear like a cool guy. I'm not saying don't tell cool stories about yourself. I'm saying don't be reaction seeking, don't be micro managing value, and don't be trying to impress a girl by hoping for the next opportunity for the next DHV spike.
EPT
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