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One more "fuck the police" from page 8 and onward is going to have an all expense paid weekend to E-Disneyland. It adds nothing to the discussion and as such please refrain from making such posts in this topic and the boards in general. | ||
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TheKanAry
United States149 Posts
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?" - Thomas Jefferson. Edit, just realized this may be unclear, i mean to say he would approve of the people dancing and any actions taken against those who stopped them. | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
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ZedZin
United States27 Posts
Well, I don't know about the illegality of dancing, whether it be grinding, daggering, two-steppin, shufflin, krumpin, hat tricks, water style, jump style, but just don't pop-and-lock it to cop lights when they're busting a rave... I got arrested on the SPOT just for dancing at the red and blue cop lights. Shit was glorious. A DJ dedicated a song to me next rave xD | ||
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CowMoo
United States45 Posts
Specifically, these dancers did not have a public license to demonstrate, which the Westboro people ALWAYS do when they choose to demonstrate. | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
Another example of this would be, imagine if the State could set up public areas where you only had other freedoms when given license (ex. Freedom of Speech). Then you don't really have those freedoms. These people believe otherwise. Their perspective is that these freedoms are self-evident, and that the State has no right to restrict these freedoms on public property. | ||
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Zisef
United States73 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On May 30 2011 04:08 Spicy Pepper wrote: By not allowing that, you're basically taking away 1st Amendment rights. The Westboro Baptists have a right to protest, even with hate. Suppressing everyone's freedoms is not the solution to safeguard against the misguided ones. To paraphrase Ben Franklin, you don't trade liberty for security. As said before, 1st amendment rights aren't absolute. You have freedom of expression as long as it is reasonable, and the US government has a right to restrict the time, place and manner of your freedom of expression, but not the content. To claim otherwise is to ignore 200 years of legal interpretation and jurisprudence on the bill of rights, back to the point where a black person is still 3/5ths of a white. A court has ruled that dancing at the TJ monument isn't a reasonable use of your freedom of expression (especially without a permit), the next step is to appeal that decision. Not harassing some cops into arresting you. | ||
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Arckan
243 Posts
I don't see the problem. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On May 30 2011 04:24 Derez wrote: As said before, 1st amendment rights aren't absolute. You have freedom of expression as long as it is reasonable, and the US government has a right to restrict the time, place and manner of your freedom of expression. A court has ruled that dancing at the TJ monument isn't a reasonable use of your freedom of expression, the next step is to appeal that decision. Not harassing some cops into arresting you. i would understand if it was a sombre place where people wept for a previous leader but as far as i know its more a memorial to what he did for america than to mourn his death? | ||
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Moldwood
United States280 Posts
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Samp
Canada783 Posts
On May 30 2011 04:26 Arckan wrote: They went there to incite the police. They were arrested after being warned multiple times. I don't see the problem. They were there to dance and have fun, THEN the police came and told them to stop "dancing" for no good reason. What the police did is illegal, its retarded, even more in a country who promotes freedom like USA. This video is quite shocking ;O. | ||
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Karthane
United States1183 Posts
On May 30 2011 04:26 Arckan wrote: They went there to incite the police. They were arrested after being warned multiple times. I don't see the problem. You don't see the problem with a policeman picking up a person and body-slamming them into the ground and then putting their hands around the person's throat..all for dancing? | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On May 30 2011 04:24 Derez wrote: As said before, 1st amendment rights aren't absolute. You have freedom of expression as long as it is reasonable, and the US government has a right to restrict the time, place and manner of your freedom of expression. A court has ruled that dancing at the TJ monument isn't a reasonable use of your freedom of expression, the next step is to appeal that decision. Not harassing some cops into arresting you. Then you don't really have freedom. They almost certainly knew they would be arrested. What they are showing is that we live in a country where you don't have inalienable rights. We live in a society where government decides your freedoms. This is an extremely basic example of larger topics, like the Patriot Act, the body screening by the TSA, prohibition of gay marriage, our drug laws, and the new internet identification bill. It's trying to address the common thread of why these laws that infringe on civil liberties get passed. And they disagree with that court's interpretation. They are publicly demonstrating as a protest. Protesting is not harassing cops. The cops are doing their job, executing orders of the state. | ||
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Tatari
United States1179 Posts
And it also really depends on whether or not they had a permit to do this. Then again, seeing as this is about 19 pages at the time of posting, I'm probably WAY behind on what's going on in here. | ||
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GxZ
United States375 Posts
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Karthane
United States1183 Posts
On May 30 2011 04:38 Tatari wrote: If this was a demonstration, wouldn't it have been a better idea to do it elsewhere instead of a monument? And it also really depends on whether or not they had a permit to do this. Then again, seeing as this is about 19 pages at the time of posting, I'm probably WAY behind on what's going on in here. The entire point of the demonstration was to protest against the fact that it is now, for some odd reason, illegal to dance within the monument. | ||
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Jokithedruid
Sweden74 Posts
On May 30 2011 04:01 NicolBolas wrote: Then nobody can be allowed to protect people, because we're human beings, not Vulcans. Either we accept that human beings will make mistakes and excuse them when they're understandable, or we accept that no human being should be allowed to protect us. Pick one. I pick the latter, but want to explain myself. You should think of what the police is really protecting us from. Is it crime? well then it is just like putting makeup on a damaged face. Is it criminals? is criminals the only ones to blame for the way they have acted? maybe, but then you have to blame a man who batter a person bloody for putting his hand on his shoulder, since he has been robbed while threatened before in his life. Yes, a person is responsible for his action, but his actions are only reactions from what he has experienced in his life. Is it from ourself? well, you can never force some1 to do or think in some way so the police here will be super counter productive. What if the use of police would be very little or even unnecessary? I don't know another system that would work 100%, but i know one that we could try. | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
http://dcist.com/attachments/dcist_sommer/jeffersonmemorialdecision.pdf | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
Fighting for something is noble but being a wise-ass to a guy doing his job and pissing him off for no good reason is just annoying. The inevitable "MAH RIGHTS!" "MAH FREEDOMZ" gets yelled as these kids consider themself equall to Rosa Parks because they are defending the right to...dance in a memorial... This world has serious problems but being able to dance at a memorial really isn't one of them. Like i said the cops probably don't have a leg to stand on and they shouldn't have arrested them but i can understand the impulse given the crowd facing you. But sure, let's gather and protest there next time. I can't think of anything better to do or any cause more noble then fighting for your right to dance. People dying in the streets of Syria and these damn kids want a taste of the revolutionary vibe. But ofcourse they wanna be home at 20:00. There are people that seriously fight for things like freedom but these people just make a mockery out of it all. That doesn't excuse these cops from making an unlawfull arrest (not sure if it is), but that doesn't mean i am suddenly gonna think these stupid kids are freedom fighters. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
These people knew the law, they knew they were breaking it, and they got arrested for it after being warned nicely. This is basically a bunch of idiots who don't really understand civil disobedience, you think the law is stupid, alright, go protest it, get arrested, you make a point. Instead, they go off, do their little protest, then pretend they weren't warned and don't know what law they are breaking and make a huge scene. Perhaps the cops were a bit rough, but I honestly am fine with it considering that these people knew exactly what they were doing and decided to turn their own civil disobedience into a big fucking joke. There are plenty of cases of police brutality or unfairness, this is not one of them. This is just a case of a bunch of idiots failing at civil disobedience. | ||
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