The thing that I think is upsetting here is that personally as a 'foreigner" i feel very proud that our players participate in the GSL. I want foreigner to be on par with the Koreans and the best way to prove that is to send them off to Korea.

Things like EG's policy will only discourage players from going to Korea as their clans will be negatively affected by such events.

I think overall it shows a lack of support for foreign E-sports and that's a shame. We should all be in the same boat and helping each other out.

Bobster

Germany3075 Posts

May 02 2011 14:20 GMT

#582

On May 02 2011 10:26 last.resistance wrote:
Let's all jump to conclusions before we know the full story!

TEAM LIQUID RAN OVER EG'S DOG!!! MORE AFTER THE BREAK...

On May 02 2011 10:43 Colbi wrote:

Show nested quote +

Despite every European team agreeing to the ruleset without any concern, Team Liquid requested we make a rule that forced teams to alternate between servers from game to game for NA/EU and NA/KR matches. Since no European team issued this concern other than Team Liquid, we did not feel it appropriate to impose the rule on everyone which would just further complicate scheduling and broadcasting. Additionally, it should be noted that our ruleset did and does allow teams to play on either BattleNet region if both teams agree upon it.

...oh.

Well, that seems reasonable. And I say that as a TL fan. Organiser makes the rules, not worth it to accomodate one team if it means complicating it for the other 7 teams. Lineup is great, but MYM will get their asses kicked. I actually regard Empire more highly (FXO has a fantastic top 3 as well but not enough depth), but that may be just me!

Kar98

Australia924 Posts

May 02 2011 14:22 GMT

#583

Naw no FXO, I was hoping to see glade in there

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

May 02 2011 14:22 GMT

#584

I don't think people expected Korea to be so limited in opportunities.. there's the GSL with very stiff competition, and that's it. There's really not much reason for foreigners to be staying there going into the future, if things continue the way they are going.

InteGrated

United States259 Posts

May 02 2011 14:23 GMT

#585

Sad to see that when its a Team league sponsored by a US sponor and they have rules to help the clans that are from the US in terms of latency issues, they are called "bias" and "ignorant in regards to running a tournament."

im sure if this was the case from a european team league tournament, this factor wouldnt be such a big deal but hey.. it comes down to blaming EG for rules that they think fit a tournament and give it the most validity.

nihlon

Sweden5581 Posts

May 02 2011 14:26 GMT

#586

On May 02 2011 23:17 cuppatea wrote:
For the people wondering what "high level 2v2" looks like, here are a few examples from the Machinima Realm Invitational (which EG won, thanks to their stellar 2v2 record):

EG proxy gate/ling rushing JulyZerg and Junwi (offracing as Terran) and winning in 8 minutes:

EG proxy gate/ling rushing Morrow and Strelok and winning in 14 minutes:

EG proxy gate/ling rushing Drewbie and Catz and winning in 10 minutes:

EG proxy gate/ling rushing PungPung and Atreyu and winning in 11 minutes:

Basically, "high level 2v2" equals 4 1v1 players playing a game in which the team with very little preperation execute a 1 base rush and kill the guys with zero preperation.

I'd rather they just played a reverse race game if they HAVE to throw a "fun" game in there, at least most of the players will have more experience playing with their offrace than with their designated 2v2 partner.

Step 1) Realize that there has been 1v1 tournaments with a lot of games in the 8-14 minutes range

Step 2) Realize that Blizzard maps suck.

Step 3) Play on different maps

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

May 02 2011 14:31 GMT

#587

I dunno what someone has to do to convince you. The maps won't stop it being like that.

Candles

United Kingdom103 Posts

May 02 2011 14:32 GMT

#588

Not to make large blind accusations but it all smells a little bit like a scam to me...

- EG run a tournament which will make the company money (I assume)
- Their own team is entering
- They know they're probably the strongest North American Team
- They tilt the advantage slightly in their own favor by offering strong European teams slightly higher Latency when playing North Americans .
- They win the tournament and not only do they make money, but their team also takes home the prize pool.

If this is definitely wrong I apologize (for making such a nasty accusation), but from a skeptics view point this is what it looks like...

sc_oldboy

Germany35 Posts

May 02 2011 14:32 GMT

#589

No FXO? Both MYM and millenium compared to FXO seem to not measure up.

Irrational_Animal

Germany1059 Posts

May 02 2011 14:35 GMT

#590

@ Nihlon but there are no GSL-like 2v2 maps and in Europe there are a couple 2v2 tourneys and the games are all alike. A very good 2v2 team from Germany Delphi/Kara mentioned on Take`s cast that hardly anything apart from TZ aggression play is viable. That`s how they or Aristeo/Cubert from Empire have 90% win rates.

echobong

Canada92 Posts

May 02 2011 14:36 GMT

#591

What the hell? It's EG's tournament and they can set the rules as they like. If Liquid doesn't like it (and it doesn't), then don't participate. Don't drag in EG's standards and publicly lambast them for a tournament you're not participating in because they won't bend to your will. Jesus.

ExquisiteRed

396 Posts

May 02 2011 14:36 GMT

#592

On May 02 2011 23:32 Candles wrote:
Not to make large blind accusations but it all smells a little bit like a scam to me...

- EG run a tournament which will make the company money (I assume)
- Their own team is entering
- They know they're probably the strongest North American Team
- They tilt the advantage slightly in their own favor by offering strong European teams slightly higher Latency when playing North Americans .
- They win the tournament and not only do they make money, but their team also takes home the prize pool.

If this is definitely wrong I apologize (for making such a nasty accusation), but from a skeptics view point this is what it looks like...

Did you even read their explanations. Think before you type something so stupid. Everyone, including EG, knows that the tournament would benefit from having TL in it, this just causes a lot of logistical problems for running a tourney. Some of you people are ridiculous.

Mactator

109 Posts

May 02 2011 14:39 GMT

#593

LOL! This just shows how colored this discussion is. You show us four games. In all of them one of the teams makes a proxy gate and the other forgot to scout. Come'on. This is not a standard example of 2v2. This is just bad play from 1v1 players who doesn't take team games seriously. These 1v1 progamers don't practice hard for team games or play them regularly. To have a good 2v2 tournament the teams should at least take 2v2 seriously and develop some strategies. When Actionjesuz wins a 1v1 with 6 pool then does that mean that 1v1 is stupid? - not really!

Huragius

Lithuania1506 Posts

May 02 2011 14:39 GMT

#594

Not having Empire is a huge blow. They are fucking sick now. Anyways, awesome event !

Bobster

Germany3075 Posts

May 02 2011 14:40 GMT

#595

On May 02 2011 23:32 sc_oldboy wrote:
No FXO? Both MYM and millenium compared to FXO seem to not measure up.

I wanted to disagree, but then I noticed that I completely forgot about Moonan. Moonglade, Sheth, qxc, Moonan... and Optikzero I guess? Good lineup, if a bit light on Protoss. Maybe FXO will expand their lineup with a heavy hitting Protoss in the future.

Man, there's so many good teams out there ;_; Needs to be a 10 (12, 14, 16) league next time. :p

Deekin[

Serbia1713 Posts

May 02 2011 14:41 GMT

#596

People keeps saying "No Empire, no FXO" etc

But one thing that strikes me the most is no TeamLiquid

Cathasaigh

United States285 Posts

May 02 2011 14:41 GMT

#597

On May 02 2011 23:41 Deekin[ wrote:
People keeps saying "No Empire, no FXO" etc

But one thing that strikes me the most is no TeamLiquid

Then apparently you didn't read most of this thread since that horse has been beaten to death.

Bobster

Germany3075 Posts

May 02 2011 14:42 GMT

#598

On May 02 2011 23:41 Deekin[ wrote:
People keeps saying "No Empire, no FXO" etc

But one thing that strikes me the most is no TeamLiquid

Interesting, you're definitely the first to point this out. No one has discussed this in this thread before and the large majority of posts certainly don't mention Team Liquid missing.

CTStalker

Canada9720 Posts

May 02 2011 14:42 GMT

#599

if you don't like 2v2, then just piss off and don't watch the games when they air. you're all horribly wrong though. when proleague had 2v2 it was amazing. there were (basically) dedicated 2v2 players like qoo)max who would show great games against teams like reach / yellow.

ROOTdrewbie

Canada1392 Posts

May 02 2011 14:45 GMT

#600

This solution that TL is requesting would not actually be the most fair. The EU teams would have a massive advantage from this. The delay from KR to NA is10x worse than EU to NA, so the only people that would be at a disadvantage would be the NA teams, who would now have to play in lag for half their matches vs EG. I'm sure every EU team would happily go for your solution, it doesn't affect them at all while screwing over the NA teams.
Sadly though this tournament is hosted by an NA team and they want to give their team the best chance to win, why else would they have 2v2 and ace match?
I agree with TL that there should be a fair solution to the lag issues, but this is really not a viable solution at least for a NA clan league and this really isn't the right place to bring it up. TL still has ret / TLO / Tyler that aren't in Korea at the moment, so they would be able to play in this tournament without any Korean players.
Playing on Korea just for a few matches in the tournament would be such a HUGE disadvantage, none of your opponents will ever have experienced the lag, while you guys do it regularly and it is a completely unreasonable solution.
It would definitely be fair to play on EU for half the games, and that wouldn't bother me one bit.
For me the lag is not an issue between EU/NA so I don't think that its a big advantage to play only on NA, although naniwa says that he has noticeable lag on NA so I guess it is different for each player.