|
On May 04 2011 15:24 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 15:21 Zeri wrote:On May 04 2011 14:26 illmanic wrote:
Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all. No Tyler said Colbi's post was deceptive. Tyler stated that colbi should have, instead posted a more neutral statement saying "TL was invited but declined because of unresolvable server issues" Which is less deceptive and leads to more balanced inferences of what exactly went down. Instead of leaving the second part off. What gives Colbi the right to speak for TL? Being professional != being deceptive.
Where is he speaking for TL there? He isn't. everyone needs to stop using that line. Its wrong. He is speaking to the neutrality of the decision. If you honestly think the example I posted is colbi speaking on behalf of teamliquid. then saying "TL declined" is equally speaking on TL's behalf. Really think before you post.
|
On May 04 2011 15:24 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 15:21 Zeri wrote:On May 04 2011 14:26 illmanic wrote:
Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all. No Tyler said Colbi's post was deceptive. Tyler stated that colbi should have, instead posted a more neutral statement saying "TL was invited but declined because of unresolvable server issues" Which is less deceptive and leads to more balanced inferences of what exactly went down. Instead of leaving the second part off. What gives Colbi the right to speak for TL? Being professional != being deceptive.
And this is what i was shouting at my monitor during that whole conversation. It's not Colbi's job, or right, or business to be talking for TL. He doesn't work for them, he's not a member of the team, he's just the dude from EG who was asked a question and gave a very neutral response from his side. It's not one person's job to put the whole thing out there, what if TL would have gotten upset at their business being put out in front of everyone? Then we'd be in this whole mess only backwards.
Where is he speaking for TL there? He isn't. everyone needs to stop using that line. Its wrong. He is speaking to the neutrality of the decision. If you honestly think the example I posted is colbi speaking on behalf of teamliquid. then saying "TL declined" is equally speaking on TL's behalf. Really think before you post.
That's the point, he wasn't speaking for TL. He was giving a generalized statement from the EG camp that TL declined the invitation that was sent out. It's not speaking for TL to give generalized information, but it is speaking for TL in giving reasons.
|
On May 04 2011 15:24 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 15:21 Zeri wrote:On May 04 2011 14:26 illmanic wrote:
Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all. No Tyler said Colbi's post was deceptive. Tyler stated that colbi should have, instead posted a more neutral statement saying "TL was invited but declined because of unresolvable server issues" Which is less deceptive and leads to more balanced inferences of what exactly went down. Instead of leaving the second part off. What gives Colbi the right to speak for TL? Being professional != being deceptive.
saying they declined because of server issues != speaking for liquid
who decided that this was fact?
|
This is why I cannot take any offline tournament seriously. There has to be more offline tournaments that actually have a prize pool worth flying over for. There's really no point in watching a series if you know that one or both players aren't performing at their best. You won't be seeing the better player come out on top in many situations where they should, so what's the point? Just look at the results of anyone playing on the Korean server playing in a foreign tournament: IEM (Ace, Squirtle, Moon), MLG (Jinro, IdrA), Dreamhack (MC), Assembly (Ret), some SEA tournament that Ace took. Those are the results of offline tournaments and if you go ahead and compare those to the results of online tournaments, you see the huge difference.
|
Were I not in the midst of studying for finals (and admittedly procrastinating a little by reading this thread), I would compile the major points and arguments illustrated in this thread and present them to Blizzard as evidence of how their LAN outlaw is handicapping e-sports. This entire debate really ought not to occur, and any sense of frustration needs to be directed at Blizzard themselves.
|
On May 04 2011 14:56 TheButtonmen wrote:He made those comments after Tyler attacked him, is he not allowed to defend himself from Liquid members because this is their site?
Then again, instead of
On May 02 2011 10:17 Colbi wrote:Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate.
let's say:
1) Liquid was invited, but certain issues couldn't be resolved.
2) Liquid was invited, but unfortunately certain issues couldn't be resolved.
3) Liquid was invited, but unfortunately certain issues couldn't be resolved. I am sure you will hear official word about their decision from the team themselves.
4) Liquid was invited, but issues regarding parts of their lineup playing from KR unfortunately couldn't be resolved.
5) Liquid was invited, but deemed themselves unable to compete due to two of their players being in KR.
As you can see, wording does make a difference in perception. Let it be clear, that playing the ball to TL is considered fair and safe play in general PR business.
But in his role, Colbi should have had more sensitivity going about it. There is a difference in handing the ball and dropping it. Tyler didn't get mad because Colbi was "playing it safe" for EG. That is totally reasonable.
Colbi's response may have been sufficient for EG to be in the clear, but at the same time left TL with little to no graceful way to pick it up from there. At the very least, a sensible PR person should know the code of conduct between business partners.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I'm going to close this since it's been completely derailed and is effectively useless.
Some important points.
- Teamliquid as an organization is in a very unique and interesting position being home to both its own team and the largest starcraft 2 community on the internet. We've had many long and detailed discussions about the way in which we should manage our community given the number of influencers, businesses and "competing" organizations that rely on the forums to promote themselves. I think we have found a pretty happy medium.
- The team and the the site staff/management run completely separately. The decision not to play in EG Masters was made by the players themselves. Just for naming conventions sake, internally we say "Teamliquid" when discussing the site/community and "Liquid`" for the team specifically.
- I think this thread serves as a teaching point for everyone. When speaking on behalf of an organization it's important to be 100% open or NDA everyone and i think thats what EG tried to do here. Due to the speed of the thread, Colbi replied quickly to the question but didn't realize that the "neutral" nature of his response lacked some detail and could have been misinterpreted. It was cleared up by hotbid/scoots a few pages in but its pretty easy to see that the ball was already rolling.
This was really a non-issue in the big picture, and as Scoots suggested earlier, perhaps EG will re-evaluate the server stuff next season.
Colbi please remake this OP and the discussion will be dedicated to the tournament itself and not this specific issue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
