I also think it's really offensive that people are saying that you can't criticize team liquid on team liquid. Team liquid is more than a handful of awesome players, it's a global community that composes of thousands of players and fans across several continents.
EG launch $10,000 Master's Cup Series League - Page 50
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kNightLite
United States408 Posts
I also think it's really offensive that people are saying that you can't criticize team liquid on team liquid. Team liquid is more than a handful of awesome players, it's a global community that composes of thousands of players and fans across several continents. | ||
Cpt.beefy
Ireland799 Posts
ITmeJP needs to learn to mediate more and not just let people fight for no reason...... | ||
Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
PR people watch out, Tyler is headhunting for you. | ||
KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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illmanic
United States58 Posts
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Ganjamaster
Argentina475 Posts
On May 03 2011 14:49 IdrA wrote: na to eu is playable, na to korea is not. just about any competitive player who has played across both will tell you that. the goal is producing a non-asian team league, as that is something that can be done well given the current state of battle.net. a truly international online league is not feasible right now. compare tsl and nasl results to the gsl world cup results. players playing from korea on foreign server's results are meaningless. including that kind of situation in a tournament is silly. liquid received an invitation because they are clearly one of the top non korean teams. but accommodating their choice to have players in korea lowers the quality of the league, which is unacceptable. As much as I appreciate TL, I feel this post nails the issue on the head. | ||
Sleight
2471 Posts
Jinro vs IdrA tackles the issue of servers, with Nani's jabs at the Gracken in support of Jinro. iNc vs Tyler is the responsibility of a person in accurate representation of the forums. I have opinions on these issues, but at this point, what is the sense in bitching incessantly when there is only disagreement. | ||
Monzterg
Sweden257 Posts
And for EG incontroll and idra who seem to think that they are down to the core truth and posting the core without reasoning behind: I bet you never considered to reply to the "no liquid"-questions by saying: We decided to decline team liquid for our tournament? As that would be just as true and core basic without reasoning but from the opposite angle. TY for discussion, it was a little long and got sidetracked. | ||
tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
1. Promotion of the international SC2 scene? That obviously cannot be the main factor here since that would entail some fair solution for the Europe-based teams 2. Promotion of the NA SC2 scene? That also cannot be the main factor here since so many Europe-based teams were chosen over more grassroots NA teams 3. Convenience, publicity and the belief that teams should accomodate leagues? This probably hits the nail. Casting and scheduling for one server allows for convenience of production. Choosing the best teams and a decent prize pool creates publicity. And there is definitely an attitude that they have right to make the league to their rules and convenience and use the prize money to induce teams to make appropriate sacrifices to accomodate. All this is true but I guess I've been spoilt with the congenialty, sportsmanship and player-first mentality that has been inherent in the international e-sports scene until the NASL, for instance, the TSL - the epitome of community effort and player convenience. I'll certainly watch the league if it allows for good and interesting games. However, I'm already wary of the turn that e-sports has made (i.e. "professionalism" but seemingly in an uncompromising demand on player professionalism without any guarantee of producer professionalism). | ||
Silver777
United States347 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:26 illmanic wrote: Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all. The point Tyler is trying to make (IMO) is not with EG posting on TL, but with them posting, being asked why TL isn't in the tournament, and simply saying they declined and not WHY they declined, which is clearly what everyone is interested in, and knowing people WILL reply asking why as its a forum..... I mean really if you read a thread on a team tournament ON TL.net and TL isn't in it YOU are going to ask yourself, "Why is TL not in it?". If I then tell you they declined YOU are going to ask why, its simply human nature. Due to EG responding, knowing people want to know why TL declined, it sparked TL player(s) to reply saying why as EG did not cover it at all. This turned out a little ugly, but that was because one or more of the TL players felt insulted that EG responded with a post that gave no info and did little to further THEIR forum discussion or resolve it. Does EG's negligence with their response warrant some (passive) aggressive responses? No, but thats what occurred so both are really at fault. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On May 02 2011 15:04 jenzebubble wrote: P2P? Really? Why do you assume Joe Smith in Terre Haute, Indiana has better routing to Erik Nilsson in Sweden or Park Chi-ho in Korea than Blizzard? Because if it's a P2P connection, then both players have identical lag, rather than 1 player lagging and the other not. | ||
skipgamer
Australia701 Posts
If Colbi was "just doing his job" as iNcontrol and idra were saying, he wouldn't have replied to tylers post at all. His reply was definitely one sided and aggressive towards liquid. If he really had the best intentions in mind he could have posted "we were unable to reach a conclusion in the discussion with liquid which would allow them to play with fair latency for their korean located players while still being beneficial for the tournament and all the teams involved" There was no reason at all to say things like... Despite every European team agreeing to the ruleset without any concern, Team Liquid requested we make a rule and Additionally, it should be noted that our ruleset did and does allow teams to play on either BattleNet region if both teams agree upon it. Which are irrelevant and have no purpose other than to make team liquid look bad on their forums, these kind of comments should definitely be kept to other outlets as tyler was suggesting. I definitely felt for tyler as he was getting a bashing, as he had fair points. | ||
TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:47 skipgamer wrote: after listening to the sotg discussion... I believe not enough emphasis was put on EG's second statement on the discussion. If Colbi was "just doing his job" as iNcontrol and idra were saying, he wouldn't have replied to tylers post at all. His reply was definitely one sided and aggressive towards liquid. If he really had the best intentions in mind he could have posted "we were unable to reach a conclusion in the discussion with liquid which would allow them to play with fair latency for their korean located players while still being beneficial for the tournament and all the teams involved" There was no reason at all to say things like... and Which are irrelevant and have no purpose other than to make team liquid look bad on their forums, these kind of comments should definitely be kept to other outlets as tyler was suggesting. I definitely felt for tyler as he was getting a bashing, as he had fair points. He made those comments after Tyler attacked him, is he not allowed to defend himself from Liquid members because this is their site and he doesn't have 5k posts? | ||
Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:31 Sleight wrote: At the end of the day, it seems that both EG and TL administrations are in agreement. The disagreement is between players. Both organizations seem to recognize disagreements happen, but the incessant outcry of players as if they are any more than glorified athletes shit-talking the other teams is getting ridiculous. Jinro vs IdrA tackles the issue of servers, with Nani's jabs at the Gracken in support of Jinro. iNc vs Tyler is the responsibility of a person in accurate representation of the forums. I have opinions on these issues, but at this point, what is the sense in bitching incessantly when there is only disagreement. it does add more flavor to future matchups though. the best rivalries in sports were when the fans KNEW the players hated each other. | ||
Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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GriNn
United States243 Posts
I don't understand how it's EG's right to explain why teamliquid declined the invite. They did the right thing in stating exactly what happened, and then letting TL explain their own reasoning. If people had misconceptions about why TL declined, then that's they're own fault for making dumb assumptions. I hope that this "drama" will be dropped soon so that ANOTHER huge SC2 league can flourish. | ||
Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:56 TheButtonmen wrote: He made those comments after Tyler attacked him, is he not allowed to defend himself from Liquid members because this is their site? The problem for him is that people will interpret what he says as what EG says, and so it was unwise to respond in such a way. The same goes for Tyler and Liquid. That said, I do have to side with Tyler here. It goes without saying that people are going to keep asking 'Why?' until they're satisfied with the answer. Posting either no information or complete information in a way that didn't implicate either part would have been better. Perhaps Colbi didn't realise that people could interpret that in the way they did, but he really should have the foresight as an EG spokesperson to consider these things. The example skipgamer gave above is pretty good: "we were unable to reach a conclusion in the discussion with liquid which would allow them to play with fair latency for their korean located players while still being beneficial for the tournament and all the teams involved" I'll post the same thing here as i did in the SotG thread. I don't understand how it's EG's right to explain why teamliquid declined the invite. They did the right thing in stating exactly what happened, and then letting TL explain their own reasoning. If people had misconceptions about why TL declined, then that's they're own fault for making dumb assumptions. Whether or not peoples' misinterpretations are stupid or not, the fact is that it should be so obvious to an EG spokesperson that misinterpretations will occur if a statement isn't made with the utmost tact. Colbi's statement avoided the question that people were actually asking and people instantly knew he was withholding information. When people know you're withholding information the question becomes 'why are they withholding information'. From there people can speculate all they want and that's when rumors etc start. | ||
Theo
United States151 Posts
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Zeri
United States773 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:26 illmanic wrote: Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all. No Tyler said Colbi's post was deceptive. Tyler stated that colbi should have, instead posted a more neutral statement saying "TL was invited but declined because of unresolvable server issues" Which is less deceptive and leads to more balanced inferences of what exactly went down. Instead of leaving the second part off. | ||
TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:21 Zeri wrote: No Tyler said Colbi's post was deceptive. Tyler stated that colbi should have, instead posted a more neutral statement saying "TL was invited but declined because of unresolvable server issues" Which is less deceptive and leads to more balanced inferences of what exactly went down. Instead of leaving the second part off. What gives Colbi the right to speak for TL? Being professional != being deceptive. | ||
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