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EG launch $10,000 Master's Cup Series League - Page 50

Forum Index > Closed
1006 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 Next
kNightLite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States408 Posts
May 04 2011 05:20 GMT
#981
I'm a big team liquid fan, but I'm glad the the tournament organizers stuck to their guns here. Team Liquid should not get special treatment when there are plenty of other good teams out there.

I also think it's really offensive that people are saying that you can't criticize team liquid on team liquid. Team liquid is more than a handful of awesome players, it's a global community that composes of thousands of players and fans across several continents.
Cpt.beefy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Ireland799 Posts
May 04 2011 05:23 GMT
#982
This was just discussed on Sate of the game 37 and basically it was a cat fight.
ITmeJP needs to learn to mediate more and not just let people fight for no reason......
Our Beloved Geoff "inControl" Robinson.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
May 04 2011 05:24 GMT
#983
What the SotG discussion on this thread has taught me:

PR people watch out, Tyler is headhunting for you.
Hey! How you doin'?
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
May 04 2011 05:24 GMT
#984
wow, i had no idea there was such controversy about this tourney, regardless looking forward to it.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
illmanic
Profile Joined August 2010
United States58 Posts
May 04 2011 05:26 GMT
#985
Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all.
Ganjamaster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Argentina475 Posts
May 04 2011 05:29 GMT
#986
On May 03 2011 14:49 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 13:57 PtM wrote:
On May 03 2011 13:31 IdrA wrote:
On May 03 2011 13:25 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On May 03 2011 13:10 Shen_ wrote:
On May 03 2011 13:00 stevarius wrote:
TSLs format IS optimal because of the variations in KR-NA lag compared to EU-NA lag and so forth. Why should professional players be punished in their choice to go to Korea and compete?


Because they are already rewarded by being in Korea and having access to GSL. Why should players in Korea have all the advantages and none of the inconveniences?

I really dont understand why we should be punished, we are already missing out on every single non-major (ie Dreamhack size) offline event in europe/US as well as every single european online tournament.

That, IMO, is enough punishment.

but its your choice, you knew itd make foreign stuff inconvenient when you went to korea and you have the option to go home. if you want to participate in foreign events you should leave korea. if not its your responsibility to deal with it.
its not a punishment, you just have no right to expect other players to accept shitty playing conditions to accommodate you.

Your approach here is rather misguided. If the goal is to cultivate a strong international competitive scene, then the focus should be on making sure that it's as fair to all participants as possible. Since the organizers chose to invite several European teams and a team that has a heavy Korean presence, it's obvious that the goal isn't just to produce another North American league, so these factors should be relevant in this situation -- forcing players to choose which scene to participate in results in the scenes becoming more isolated and isn't good for the global scene.

Moreover, your emphasis on the Korean scene and the tradeoffs that specific players are making here isn't really germane to the issue. The same argument would apply even if the teams were exclusively based in NA and EU. Obviously, the latency difference isn't as serious from EU to NA, but it's transparently the case that it's more fair to the EU players if the games alternate servers. Unlike your way of framing it, where people are making tradeoffs by moving to Korea, this is a question of players remaining in their home countries but still suffering when they play tournaments based on another continent.

Of course, you're right that nobody is obligated to accommodate any team, but that suggests a very strange set of goals. If you want to make a fair, competitive tournament and if you want participation from teams from different parts of the world, it's clear that alternating servers is the best approach.

na to eu is playable, na to korea is not. just about any competitive player who has played across both will tell you that.
the goal is producing a non-asian team league, as that is something that can be done well given the current state of battle.net. a truly international online league is not feasible right now. compare tsl and nasl results to the gsl world cup results. players playing from korea on foreign server's results are meaningless. including that kind of situation in a tournament is silly.

liquid received an invitation because they are clearly one of the top non korean teams. but accommodating their choice to have players in korea lowers the quality of the league, which is unacceptable.


As much as I appreciate TL, I feel this post nails the issue on the head.
My hoes be the thickest, my dro.. the stickiest
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
May 04 2011 05:31 GMT
#987
At the end of the day, it seems that both EG and TL administrations are in agreement. The disagreement is between players. Both organizations seem to recognize disagreements happen, but the incessant outcry of players as if they are any more than glorified athletes shit-talking the other teams is getting ridiculous.

Jinro vs IdrA tackles the issue of servers, with Nani's jabs at the Gracken in support of Jinro. iNc vs Tyler is the responsibility of a person in accurate representation of the forums.

I have opinions on these issues, but at this point, what is the sense in bitching incessantly when there is only disagreement.
One Love
Monzterg
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden257 Posts
May 04 2011 05:36 GMT
#988
After listening to the discusion on "state of the game" just now its pretty clear both parts are not happy with the angle the other teams representatives are giving on the truth.

And for EG incontroll and idra who seem to think that they are down to the core truth and posting the core without reasoning behind:

I bet you never considered to reply to the "no liquid"-questions by saying: We decided to decline team liquid for our tournament? As that would be just as true and core basic without reasoning but from the opposite angle.


TY for discussion, it was a little long and got sidetracked.
tyCe
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2542 Posts
May 04 2011 05:37 GMT
#989
The choice to play games solely on the NA server should be met with more criticism IMO. It's a choice that makes you question the motivations of he league.

1. Promotion of the international SC2 scene?
That obviously cannot be the main factor here since that would entail some fair solution for the Europe-based teams

2. Promotion of the NA SC2 scene?
That also cannot be the main factor here since so many Europe-based teams were chosen over more grassroots NA teams

3. Convenience, publicity and the belief that teams should accomodate leagues?
This probably hits the nail. Casting and scheduling for one server allows for convenience of production. Choosing the best teams and a decent prize pool creates publicity. And there is definitely an attitude that they have right to make the league to their rules and convenience and use the prize money to induce teams to make appropriate sacrifices to accomodate.

All this is true but I guess I've been spoilt with the congenialty, sportsmanship and player-first mentality that has been inherent in the international e-sports scene until the NASL, for instance, the TSL - the epitome of community effort and player convenience.

I'll certainly watch the league if it allows for good and interesting games. However, I'm already wary of the turn that e-sports has made (i.e. "professionalism" but seemingly in an uncompromising demand on player professionalism without any guarantee of producer professionalism).
Betrayed by EG.BuK
Silver777
Profile Joined March 2010
United States347 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 05:43:44
May 04 2011 05:38 GMT
#990
On May 04 2011 14:26 illmanic wrote:
Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all.


The point Tyler is trying to make (IMO) is not with EG posting on TL, but with them posting, being asked why TL isn't in the tournament, and simply saying they declined and not WHY they declined, which is clearly what everyone is interested in, and knowing people WILL reply asking why as its a forum.....

I mean really if you read a thread on a team tournament ON TL.net and TL isn't in it YOU are going to ask yourself, "Why is TL not in it?". If I then tell you they declined YOU are going to ask why, its simply human nature. Due to EG responding, knowing people want to know why TL declined, it sparked TL player(s) to reply saying why as EG did not cover it at all. This turned out a little ugly, but that was because one or more of the TL players felt insulted that EG responded with a post that gave no info and did little to further THEIR forum discussion or resolve it.

Does EG's negligence with their response warrant some (passive) aggressive responses? No, but thats what occurred so both are really at fault.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
May 04 2011 05:40 GMT
#991
On May 02 2011 15:04 jenzebubble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2011 14:35 Jotoco wrote:
I think we can all agree on one point:

In the end the blame is on Blizzard.

If we had:

1 - LAN;

2 - P2P Connection.

We would not have this problem.


For piracy concerns, each player should be connected to his "home" server for authentication and we would all be happy and would enjoy the best possible lag situation every game, every league. (and in Ladder too)

EDIT: Not to mention all the embarrassing problems with battle net on several tournaments so far.


P2P? Really? Why do you assume Joe Smith in Terre Haute, Indiana has better routing to Erik Nilsson in Sweden or Park Chi-ho in Korea than Blizzard?

Because if it's a P2P connection, then both players have identical lag, rather than 1 player lagging and the other not.
skipgamer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia701 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 05:49:16
May 04 2011 05:47 GMT
#992
after listening to the sotg discussion... I believe not enough emphasis was put on EG's second statement on the discussion.

If Colbi was "just doing his job" as iNcontrol and idra were saying, he wouldn't have replied to tylers post at all. His reply was definitely one sided and aggressive towards liquid. If he really had the best intentions in mind he could have posted "we were unable to reach a conclusion in the discussion with liquid which would allow them to play with fair latency for their korean located players while still being beneficial for the tournament and all the teams involved"

There was no reason at all to say things like...

Despite every European team agreeing to the ruleset without any concern, Team Liquid requested we make a rule


and

Additionally, it should be noted that our ruleset did and does allow teams to play on either BattleNet region if both teams agree upon it.


Which are irrelevant and have no purpose other than to make team liquid look bad on their forums, these kind of comments should definitely be kept to other outlets as tyler was suggesting.

I definitely felt for tyler as he was getting a bashing, as he had fair points.
TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1403 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 06:09:16
May 04 2011 05:56 GMT
#993
On May 04 2011 14:47 skipgamer wrote:
after listening to the sotg discussion... I believe not enough emphasis was put on EG's second statement on the discussion.

If Colbi was "just doing his job" as iNcontrol and idra were saying, he wouldn't have replied to tylers post at all. His reply was definitely one sided and aggressive towards liquid. If he really had the best intentions in mind he could have posted "we were unable to reach a conclusion in the discussion with liquid which would allow them to play with fair latency for their korean located players while still being beneficial for the tournament and all the teams involved"

There was no reason at all to say things like...

Show nested quote +
Despite every European team agreeing to the ruleset without any concern, Team Liquid requested we make a rule


and

Show nested quote +
Additionally, it should be noted that our ruleset did and does allow teams to play on either BattleNet region if both teams agree upon it.


Which are irrelevant and have no purpose other than to make team liquid look bad on their forums, these kind of comments should definitely be kept to other outlets as tyler was suggesting.

I definitely felt for tyler as he was getting a bashing, as he had fair points.


He made those comments after Tyler attacked him, is he not allowed to defend himself from Liquid members because this is their site and he doesn't have 5k posts?
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
May 04 2011 06:05 GMT
#994
On May 04 2011 14:31 Sleight wrote:
At the end of the day, it seems that both EG and TL administrations are in agreement. The disagreement is between players. Both organizations seem to recognize disagreements happen, but the incessant outcry of players as if they are any more than glorified athletes shit-talking the other teams is getting ridiculous.

Jinro vs IdrA tackles the issue of servers, with Nani's jabs at the Gracken in support of Jinro. iNc vs Tyler is the responsibility of a person in accurate representation of the forums.

I have opinions on these issues, but at this point, what is the sense in bitching incessantly when there is only disagreement.

it does add more flavor to future matchups though. the best rivalries in sports were when the fans KNEW the players hated each other.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
May 04 2011 06:11 GMT
#995
Soooo lets talk about how awesome 2v2's are going to be with the former A-/A 2v2 players in BW Drewbie and Catz, and also one of the best 2v2 teams in WC3 history Axslav and Strifecro
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
GriNn
Profile Joined September 2010
United States243 Posts
May 04 2011 06:11 GMT
#996
I'll post the same thing here as i did in the SotG thread.
I don't understand how it's EG's right to explain why teamliquid declined the invite. They did the right thing in stating exactly what happened, and then letting TL explain their own reasoning.

If people had misconceptions about why TL declined, then that's they're own fault for making dumb assumptions.

I hope that this "drama" will be dropped soon so that ANOTHER huge SC2 league can flourish.
Liquid`Tyler: I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok.
Swede
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand853 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 06:32:09
May 04 2011 06:14 GMT
#997
On May 04 2011 14:56 TheButtonmen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 14:47 skipgamer wrote:
after listening to the sotg discussion... I believe not enough emphasis was put on EG's second statement on the discussion.

If Colbi was "just doing his job" as iNcontrol and idra were saying, he wouldn't have replied to tylers post at all. His reply was definitely one sided and aggressive towards liquid. If he really had the best intentions in mind he could have posted "we were unable to reach a conclusion in the discussion with liquid which would allow them to play with fair latency for their korean located players while still being beneficial for the tournament and all the teams involved"

There was no reason at all to say things like...

Despite every European team agreeing to the ruleset without any concern, Team Liquid requested we make a rule


and

Additionally, it should be noted that our ruleset did and does allow teams to play on either BattleNet region if both teams agree upon it.


Which are irrelevant and have no purpose other than to make team liquid look bad on their forums, these kind of comments should definitely be kept to other outlets as tyler was suggesting.

I definitely felt for tyler as he was getting a bashing, as he had fair points.


He made those comments after Tyler attacked him, is he not allowed to defend himself from Liquid members because this is their site?


The problem for him is that people will interpret what he says as what EG says, and so it was unwise to respond in such a way. The same goes for Tyler and Liquid.

That said, I do have to side with Tyler here. It goes without saying that people are going to keep asking 'Why?' until they're satisfied with the answer. Posting either no information or complete information in a way that didn't implicate either part would have been better. Perhaps Colbi didn't realise that people could interpret that in the way they did, but he really should have the foresight as an EG spokesperson to consider these things.

The example skipgamer gave above is pretty good:
"we were unable to reach a conclusion in the discussion with liquid which would allow them to play with fair latency for their korean located players while still being beneficial for the tournament and all the teams involved"

I'll post the same thing here as i did in the SotG thread.
I don't understand how it's EG's right to explain why teamliquid declined the invite. They did the right thing in stating exactly what happened, and then letting TL explain their own reasoning.

If people had misconceptions about why TL declined, then that's they're own fault for making dumb assumptions.


Whether or not peoples' misinterpretations are stupid or not, the fact is that it should be so obvious to an EG spokesperson that misinterpretations will occur if a statement isn't made with the utmost tact. Colbi's statement avoided the question that people were actually asking and people instantly knew he was withholding information. When people know you're withholding information the question becomes 'why are they withholding information'. From there people can speculate all they want and that's when rumors etc start.
Theo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States151 Posts
May 04 2011 06:15 GMT
#998
DJ Wheat is going to cast this with IdrA and inControl and i'm guessing other players? Basically always have wheat and a pro?
Frog? No. HIPPO
Zeri
Profile Joined March 2010
United States773 Posts
May 04 2011 06:21 GMT
#999
On May 04 2011 14:26 illmanic wrote:
Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all.



No Tyler said Colbi's post was deceptive. Tyler stated that colbi should have, instead posted a more neutral statement saying "TL was invited but declined because of unresolvable server issues" Which is less deceptive and leads to more balanced inferences of what exactly went down. Instead of leaving the second part off.
You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.
TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1403 Posts
May 04 2011 06:24 GMT
#1000
On May 04 2011 15:21 Zeri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 14:26 illmanic wrote:
Tyler is making a stupid stupid argument on SOTG right now. Is he seriously saying that saying the fact that TL declined the invite deception? I don't see how stating a simple fact in any way deception. I really don't respect Tyler's opinion on this at all.



No Tyler said Colbi's post was deceptive. Tyler stated that colbi should have, instead posted a more neutral statement saying "TL was invited but declined because of unresolvable server issues" Which is less deceptive and leads to more balanced inferences of what exactly went down. Instead of leaving the second part off.


What gives Colbi the right to speak for TL?

Being professional != being deceptive.
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