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On May 02 2011 14:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:54 AmunEli wrote:
Idra is clearly the best North American Zerg.
I would give Dimaga the edge in Europe.
The best Korean/(Or other Asian country) Zerg has yet to be established. Nestea is the one with the most recent accomplishments but has really fallen back with the pack lately. If a Zerg wins GSL, then they are the best Zerg in the world hands down. If none of them end up competing in the finals, then they have to compete with Idra and Dimaga for the crown. so why do they have to win the most prestigious starcraft 2 tournament in the world to compete with people who haven't even been past the ro8?
Ah so a Korean Zerg made it past the round of 8 in the 2011 GSL World Championship? Oh wait. 3 of them lost to Dimaga along the way in the tournament too.
And Idra was Code S before he left Korea and was doing well there.
These two have shown themselves to at least be able to consistently compete with the top Korean Zergs in a Korean tournament as well as dominating their respective gaming regions. I would say that warrants some sort of accomplishment to be required from the Korean Zergs.
On May 02 2011 15:13 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:54 AmunEli wrote:
Idra is clearly the best North American Zerg.
I would give Dimaga the edge in Europe.
The best Korean/(Or other Asian country) Zerg has yet to be established. Nestea is the one with the most recent accomplishments but has really fallen back with the pack lately. If a Zerg wins GSL, then they are the best Zerg in the world hands down. If none of them end up competing in the finals, then they have to compete with Idra and Dimaga for the crown. You are making no sense. Why does a korean need to exactly WIN gsl to stand above idra or dimaga? i can discuss that the finals for the GSL alone is higher then those 2 get simply because the GSL has the the better players compared to other events.
I merely stated that winning would obviously put them above all other Zergs. If they make a deep run to the finals or possibly semis that could also put them over the top. Otherwise I will consider they're current level of play to be insufficient to be distinguished from Idra or Dimaga.
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On May 02 2011 14:54 AmunEli wrote:
Idra is clearly the best North American Zerg.
I would give Dimaga the edge in Europe.
The best Korean/(Or other Asian country) Zerg has yet to be established. Nestea is the one with the most recent accomplishments but has really fallen back with the pack lately. If a Zerg wins GSL, then they are the best Zerg in the world hands down. If none of them end up competing in the finals, then they have to compete with Idra and Dimaga for the crown.
I agree first two, but i dont know that korea would have their zerg king. but who ever will be "zerg king" will be better then idra or dimaga
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On May 02 2011 15:25 pokia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:54 AmunEli wrote:
Idra is clearly the best North American Zerg.
I would give Dimaga the edge in Europe.
The best Korean/(Or other Asian country) Zerg has yet to be established. Nestea is the one with the most recent accomplishments but has really fallen back with the pack lately. If a Zerg wins GSL, then they are the best Zerg in the world hands down. If none of them end up competing in the finals, then they have to compete with Idra and Dimaga for the crown. I agree first two, but i dont know that korea would have their zerg king. but who ever will be "zerg king" will be better then idra or dimaga
And normally I would agree, but from what I've observed, Zerg play in Korea has declined somewhat recently. We aren't having this discussion over who's the Zerg King because of overwhelming, widespread success -- we're having it because no Zerg has made it far enough in current tournaments to distinguish themselves from the pack. This, combined with how both Idra and Dimaga have proved that they can compete with the best Korean Zerg players, puts Idra and Dimaga into consideration at least.
Really, to use a college football metaphor, it's like BCS vs. non-BCS teams. Dimaga and Idra are like Boise State and TCU -- they enjoy great success against lesser opponents and have beaten top flight BCS teams when given the opportunity. The Korean players, Nestea, Losira, etc, are like the BCS -- playing against high level competition all the time. We often end up with a BCS team with 1 loss being ranked ahead on an undefeated non-BCS team. Great controversy erupts over whether this is proper. I'm on the side that holds that the non-BCS teams cannot be distinguished from the BCS teams unless the BCS team either a) beats the non-BCS team head to head or b) finishes with an equal or better record against better competition (not an inferior record).
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bugs cant be on a throne hehehahohohehe
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Since the spoiler is in the main thread I need not worry about what I say, so needless to say taking Kiwi out 3-0 the first time around and going down 2-0 to 3-2 him in the finals with some ridiculously multitasking heavy games, just goes to show Idra is putting the bar up a notch.
Be interested to see if anyone else can manage to do what most zergs haven't lately...win a tournament and beat good players in doing it. Idra beat kiwi twice, select once, drewbie, and fenix...I mean arguably he had the toughest road to the finals and he not only rose to the challenge, he crushed face along the way.
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On May 02 2011 14 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 05:11 Blasphemi wrote:syllogism wrote:
He seems like a very competent zerg, but he is way behind even idra in terms of achievements even if we focus solely on Korea. This isn't a judgement of skill, just pointing out that people aren't applying a consistent standard in their evaluations simply because they dislike Idra or are fans of Losira for whatever reason Idra won MLG DC all the way back in October. His best GSL place was the Ro8 (which Losira will at least match this month). Not only was MLG DC an eternity ago in SC2 terms the player pool was in my opinion considerably weaker than March Code A. The IPL will be the first time since DC that Idra has finished top three in any meaningful tournament Korean or Foreigner. At this stage Losira is well ahead of Idra in terms of relevant success. code A is just a qualifier tournament for code S and winning that isn't all that prestigious. While Losira was working hard on even qualifying into GSL, idra qualified every time and was never eliminated in the first round. Far more impressive than qualifying on his fifth attempt and winning the qualifier tournament. Of course, Losira might even win this time, but that remains to be seen and his path to RO4 is relatively easy. Feel free to believe failing to qualify for 7 months (?) and then making one good run is impressive.
The only remotely impressive run Idra had in Korea was his Bo8 where he lost to Jinro, which Losira has at least matched this time as well as his Code A win. Code A is probably the second hardest tournament to win in Starcraft 2 with NASL soon to push it into third when it completes a season.
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Beating Nestea in a Bo3 is not the same as consistantly qualiying for and winning Code S. Dimaga has proven nothing at all in Sc2, anyone can snipe anyone in their world cup final when he actually wins/gets far in some decent tournament maybe Dimaga will be comparable to Idra nevermind Nestea.
On May 02 2011 17 Nerski wrote:
Since the spoiler is in the main thread I need not worry about what I say, so needless to say taking Kiwi out 3-0 the first time around and going down 2-0 to 3-2 him in the finals with some ridiculously multitasking heavy games, just goes to show Idra is putting the bar up a notch.
Be interested to see if anyone else can manage to do what most zergs haven't lately...win a tournament and beat good players in doing it. Idra beat kiwi twice, select once, drewbie, and fenix...I mean arguably he had the toughest road to the finals and he not only rose to the challenge, he crushed face along the way.
Idra is playing the best SC2 of his career right now and I think he might even take the NASL he's playing so well, but the IPL player standard was pretty low, a long way from the standard of Code A/S or even MLG.
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Consistently qualifying and winning games in GSL is still infinitely more impressive than repeatedly failing to qualify at all. Further, code A lacks, prima facie, all the best players in Korea and thus winning it is less impressive than already being in code S. Losira is even behind players like Check and Zenio in terms of achievements. This is not to say I think some or all of these players are better than Losira. This is an inane argument, however, so this will be my last post regarding it.
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On May 02 2011 18
Consistently qualifying and winning games in GSL is still infinitely more impressive than repeatedly failing to qualify at all. Further, code A lacks, prima facie, all the best players in Korea and thus winning it is less impressive than already being in code S. Losira is even behind players like Check and Zenio in terms of achievements. This is not to say I think some or all of these players are better than Losira. This is an inane argument, however, so this will be my last post regarding it.
Winning Code A is much harder to do than reaching the Ro16 in Code S. Code A has had some extremely strong players the last two seasons including Losira, Bomber, Ryung, Alicia, Supernova, MVP, MMA, Boxer, this is not an easy competition to win at all.
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On May 02 2011 19:04 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 18
Consistently qualifying and winning games in GSL is still infinitely more impressive than repeatedly failing to qualify at all. Further, code A lacks, prima facie, all the best players in Korea and thus winning it is less impressive than already being in code S. Losira is even behind players like Check and Zenio in terms of achievements. This is not to say I think some or all of these players are better than Losira. This is an inane argument, however, so this will be my last post regarding it. Winning Code A is much harder to do than reaching the Ro16 in Code S. Code A has had some extremely strong players the last two seasons including Losira, Bomber, Ryung, Alicia, Supernova, MVP, MMA, Boxer, this is not an easy competition to win at all.
That is a purely subjective claim and does not take into consideration the path the player took to win the tournament and it's far from certain code A will remain this "high level" (this is very much debatable as most of the code A games this season have been abysmal). While I personally think Ryung, Alicia, MMA and Supernova are good, none of them have really yet through results established themselves as top players, just like Losira.
Yes I said the previous post was last, but this will be for real.
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Idra easily as a foreigner, unsure about all the Koreans.
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I think Nestea proved that he is really on a whole other level than rest of the zergs again today. He had such an amazing games against Anypro.
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Spoilers
+ Show Spoiler +NESTEA NESTEA NESTEA NESTEA
Holy fuck if he hadn't proved it before those games against anypro and SC just proved it.
That game on crossfire was on of the best games of Starcraft I have ever seen.
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how the hell are ppl picking idra over nestea.. omg
NESTEA IS THE ZERG GOD MAN
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I think we know now.
+ Show Spoiler +Tonights GSL games prove Nestea is the King of zergs. We are not worthy
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Was that a rhetorical question? I think everyone who has a heart knows who he is at the moment = )
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After watching the GSL code S semifinals today, I think we can safely say NESTEA, for the moment, is king
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there is no debate anymore. nestea is truly the overmind
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EPT
