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So do you watch things other then the GSL? I don't want to spoil everything for you.
GSL is by far the biggest and best tournament around, no other tournaments match the standard of players in it except maybe the NASL, which is yet to finish a season.
That said no Zergs have won any meaningful foreigner tournaments in 2011 except for Ret at Assembly and Ret isn't one of the best Zergs for obvious reasons. Morrow has had some nice finishes here and there but nothing comparable to winning Code A even, nevermind the consistancy shown by Nestea.
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On May 02 2011 06:33 Lumbridge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 06:27 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 02 2011 06:05 Turgid wrote:On May 02 2011 05:52 Jermstuddog wrote:
What a great topic for endless debate.
I think. Nestea is still top, but I would not call him a king. His play has never been dominant like that of MVP or MC. His wins don't make me sit back and say "Wow, how did that happen?" And I think that is an important thing as a viewer and fan. Just FWIW you're saying this about a guy who won a game where he got totally duped and ended up with a single zergling and a spore crawler when 4 warpgates worth of units + a void ray showed up at his front door  Choya versus Nestea on Scrap Station. Yeah Nestea is just a lot better than Choya but still, cmon, dude was DEAD. That was a good game, but totally Choya's loss and not Nestea's win. Had Choya protected his Void Ray AT ALL the game would have been over in a snap. I am not insulting Nestea at all. I would even say I am a fan of his, but he just doesn't blow my mind like I think a good king should. IdrA does does give that wow factor, but he just can't keep the consistency up. Lol what are you talking about? A player has to have "wow factor" to be considered the best?
I dunno... I understand what he's saying, although I'm not sure I agree totally that Nestea lacks the "wow" factor but I think there's a difference between just being the best and being the king. I remember back in GSL 2 as a Protoss player we didn't have Tester and MC hadn't proven anything yet so we were basically just stuck with Genius and HongUn. It's not like they were bad players but they totally lacked the "wow" factor, meanwhile Kyrix and MarineKing were playing exciting as hell and Fruit Dealer had won the first GSL. Protoss players were really jealous and there was a general feeling that even though we technically did have a best player, we didn't have a king or anyone to follow. Genius took up Tester's throne but it reminded me of this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/justin-timberlake-apathetically-crowned-king-of-po,2146/
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On May 02 2011 06:47 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +
So do you watch things other then the GSL? I don't want to spoil everything for you.
GSL is by far the biggest and best tournament around, no other tournaments match the standard of players in it except maybe the NASL, which is yet to finish a season. That said no Zergs have won any meaningful foreigner tournaments in 2011 except for Ret at Assembly and Ret isn't one of the best Zergs for obvious reasons. Morrow has had some nice finishes here and there but nothing comparable to winning Code A even, nevermind the consistancy shown by Nestea.
There are so many weak players in the NASL. Vibe, Haypro, Artosis, etc
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Nestea in my opinion currently is the ZERG King. His decision making is pretty incredible and even though he hasn't been winning a lot like OgsMC or IMMVP he still accomplished more than any other zerg.
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The Gracken is at least a kickass Duke.
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On May 02 2011 07:05 War Horse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 06:47 Blasphemi wrote:
So do you watch things other then the GSL? I don't want to spoil everything for you.
GSL is by far the biggest and best tournament around, no other tournaments match the standard of players in it except maybe the NASL, which is yet to finish a season. That said no Zergs have won any meaningful foreigner tournaments in 2011 except for Ret at Assembly and Ret isn't one of the best Zergs for obvious reasons. Morrow has had some nice finishes here and there but nothing comparable to winning Code A even, nevermind the consistancy shown by Nestea. There are so many weak players in the NASL. Vibe, Haypro, Artosis, etc
How dare you...
He has as good a record as MC
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On May 02 2011 06:56 Turgid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 06:33 Lumbridge wrote:On May 02 2011 06:27 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 02 2011 06:05 Turgid wrote:On May 02 2011 05:52 Jermstuddog wrote:
What a great topic for endless debate.
I think. Nestea is still top, but I would not call him a king. His play has never been dominant like that of MVP or MC. His wins don't make me sit back and say "Wow, how did that happen?" And I think that is an important thing as a viewer and fan. Just FWIW you're saying this about a guy who won a game where he got totally duped and ended up with a single zergling and a spore crawler when 4 warpgates worth of units + a void ray showed up at his front door Choya versus Nestea on Scrap Station. Yeah Nestea is just a lot better than Choya but still, cmon, dude was DEAD. That was a good game, but totally Choya's loss and not Nestea's win. Had Choya protected his Void Ray AT ALL the game would have been over in a snap. I am not insulting Nestea at all. I would even say I am a fan of his, but he just doesn't blow my mind like I think a good king should. IdrA does does give that wow factor, but he just can't keep the consistency up. Lol what are you talking about? A player has to have "wow factor" to be considered the best? I dunno... I understand what he's saying, although I'm not sure I agree totally that Nestea lacks the "wow" factor but I think there's a difference between just being the best and being the king. I remember back in GSL 2 as a Protoss player we didn't have Tester and MC hadn't proven anything yet so we were basically just stuck with Genius and HongUn. It's not like they were bad players but they totally lacked the "wow" factor, meanwhile Kyrix and MarineKing were playing exciting as hell and Fruit Dealer had won the first GSL. Protoss players were really jealous and there was a general feeling that even though we technically did have a best player, we didn't have a king or anyone to follow. Genius took up Tester's throne but it reminded me of this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/justin-timberlake-apathetically-crowned-king-of-po,2146/
Ah, yeah, I guess I see what you guys are saying. I do agree that nestea isn't the most exciting player, but the best players aren't always the best to watch
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Nestea: The Regent, ruling in place of the fallen King. Wants the throne.
Losira: The Prince, not in power yet. Opposed by many.
July: The Wizard, has done it all. Wants the throne as well.
Fruitdealer: The Fallen King, plotting his return.
IdrA: The Alien King from across the sea. His invasion was barely held off. But he'll return one day.
Sen, Zenio, Kyrix, etc: Various dukes and lords, each scheming for power.
Thats how I see it anyways
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On May 02 2011 07:25 Lumbridge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 06:56 Turgid wrote:On May 02 2011 06:33 Lumbridge wrote:On May 02 2011 06:27 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 02 2011 06:05 Turgid wrote:On May 02 2011 05:52 Jermstuddog wrote:
What a great topic for endless debate.
I think. Nestea is still top, but I would not call him a king. His play has never been dominant like that of MVP or MC. His wins don't make me sit back and say "Wow, how did that happen?" And I think that is an important thing as a viewer and fan. Just FWIW you're saying this about a guy who won a game where he got totally duped and ended up with a single zergling and a spore crawler when 4 warpgates worth of units + a void ray showed up at his front door Choya versus Nestea on Scrap Station. Yeah Nestea is just a lot better than Choya but still, cmon, dude was DEAD. That was a good game, but totally Choya's loss and not Nestea's win. Had Choya protected his Void Ray AT ALL the game would have been over in a snap. I am not insulting Nestea at all. I would even say I am a fan of his, but he just doesn't blow my mind like I think a good king should. IdrA does does give that wow factor, but he just can't keep the consistency up. Lol what are you talking about? A player has to have "wow factor" to be considered the best? I dunno... I understand what he's saying, although I'm not sure I agree totally that Nestea lacks the "wow" factor but I think there's a difference between just being the best and being the king. I remember back in GSL 2 as a Protoss player we didn't have Tester and MC hadn't proven anything yet so we were basically just stuck with Genius and HongUn. It's not like they were bad players but they totally lacked the "wow" factor, meanwhile Kyrix and MarineKing were playing exciting as hell and Fruit Dealer had won the first GSL. Protoss players were really jealous and there was a general feeling that even though we technically did have a best player, we didn't have a king or anyone to follow. Genius took up Tester's throne but it reminded me of this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/justin-timberlake-apathetically-crowned-king-of-po,2146/ Ah, yeah, I guess I see what you guys are saying. I do agree that nestea isn't the most exciting player, but the best players aren't always the best to watch
Lolol it's just like in Brood War where so many people used to hate Flash because "all he does is turtle". I think people still believe that.
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I say the throne is currently empty, but the thing is, I also have to say the same of Terran. As much as I have been crying Zerg UP, I think Terran has become very balanced, and I have faith that Protoss will feel the same. MC has already been facing some losses lately. =P
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On May 02 2011 07:31 1Eris1 wrote:
Nestea: The Regent, ruling in place of the fallen King. Wants the throne.
Losira: The Prince, not in power yet. Opposed by many.
July: The Wizard, has done it all. Wants the throne as well.
Fruitdealer: The Fallen King, plotting his return.
IdrA: The Alien King from across the sea. His invasion was barely held off. But he'll return one day.
Sen, Zenio, Kyrix, etc: Various dukes and lords, each scheming for power.
Thats how I see it anyways
So lets do it Shakespeare style
Nestea: King Hamlet/Ghost (King, just died)
Losira: Hamlet (son of the King)
July: Claudius (Brother of the King, now in power after the King's death)
Fruitdealer: Dunno, King's wife?
Idra: Lets call him Horatio, don't ask why
Or Lion King
Nestea: Mufasa
Losira: Simba
July: Scar
Fruitdealer: Rafiki
Idra: Hyenas
Love it
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There is this guy called Stephano... You will put him on the throne not very long from now...
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Can't agree more to bkrow.
It's way too early to name an emperor to any race, even though for P i would pick MC and for T iMMVP and MKP.
The zerg scene has been much more volatile, there has been crazy rises and falls, beginning with GSL season 1 winner, fruitdealer himself.
Personally though, I would pick nestea, losira and Julyzerg as my favorite zergs.
They all have their weaknesses and are no where near being 'bon-jwa' status though.
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bkrow wrote: The fact that IdrA is the most voted player pretty much sums up how useless these results are; Nothing against IdrA just i don't believe he is the Zerg King just yet  You could ask this about any race and i would say "the throne is empty" would come up near the top - i mean within each race there are a top few that could, at any moment, take games off anyone so it stands to reason that there is no single dominating force in SC2 - yet. The game is still young so i look forward to the bonjwas of the future. I would say if i had to chose one it would probably be Nestea
Protoss has a King, he is called Jang Min Chul.
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Australia8532 Posts
On May 02 2011 07:48 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +bkrow wrote: The fact that IdrA is the most voted player pretty much sums up how useless these results are; Nothing against IdrA just i don't believe he is the Zerg King just yet You could ask this about any race and i would say "the throne is empty" would come up near the top - i mean within each race there are a top few that could, at any moment, take games off anyone so it stands to reason that there is no single dominating force in SC2 - yet. The game is still young so i look forward to the bonjwas of the future. I would say if i had to chose one it would probably be Nestea Protoss has a King, he is called Jang Min Chul.
Recent results would beg to differ; fair enough everybody loses but since the Dreamhack tournament i have not been impressed - i am mainly referring to his NASL games, which seemed like they weren't being taken to seriously; Then again if we are focussing on GSL you may have a point.
However, some pro players opinions on his playstyle seem to suggest he won't be near the top for the long term picture.
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On May 02 2011 05:24 sjschmidt93 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 05:22 Lumbridge wrote:
Anybody who thinks NesTea isn't the best Zerg right now is delusional. He qualified for GSL1, he won GSL2, got to the ro8(maybe ro16, I don't remember) in GSL3, got to the semifinals in GSL Code S1, and is now in the ro8 again. He also got second in the Gainward tournament in december/january. He has more results than any Zerg, there is no way he shouldn't be considered the best right now.
That said, I do think Losira and July are catching up to him. But at the moment, NesTea is the best. Any results in the last 3 months? No.
You can't say this as a measure of proof. Nes Tea is in Korea, where really the only major tournament is GSL. He's done well in that, and even won it. Idra has more tournament results because he is outside of Korea, which means he can compete in MLG, lans, etc....
Nes Tea unfortunately hasn't been invited or gone to many non-korean tournaments, despite showing an interest in doing so if he has the time(GSL takes up most of his).
If Nes Tea went to any foreign tournament he would win it, or at the very least do exceedingly well.
Yes he lost to goody 1-2, but keep in mind the lag from outside played a significant factor in those matches.
People are juding Nes Tea because he's not winning the only tournament he can play in, GSL. Despite the fact he's still in(one of the few zergs), despite the fact he even WON it, people are saying he's not the best zerg.
So let's take a recap on some of the the tournaments he's been in:
GSL: Won it, did and is doing very well all other seasons except season 1.
Korea vs the World: Lost to Dimaga(was all ind one game, so really Dimaga only beat him in one "true" game. You can't judge skill when someone cheeses like that, furthormore now remember he had beat him one game, but had beat him in the team league version of that as well the previous day.
TSL: Lost first round, was playing with lag. The series was 2-1 anyway, one of Goody's wins being from some lucky blue flame hellions. But who else lost first round? MVP, Idra , Jinro, etc....
On May 02 2011 04:47 manicshock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 03:09 Pandain wrote:On May 01 2011 05:30 manicshock wrote:On May 01 2011 02:26 Pandain wrote:On May 01 2011 02:34 manicshock wrote:
Dimaga beat Nestea by figuring out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps. It was MVP who he was playing, not MKP. IdrA and Dimaga aren't ready to become zerg kings, Losira and Nestea are very strong though. As in he 10 pooled and pulled his drones? Sometimes players do figure out these awesome timings and "figure out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps!" Sometimes players are just cheesing. Guess what, Dimaga did use those "builds to beat him specifically." Surprise? I remember somewhere he mentioned the 10 pool, but for now I can only find this quote. I am extremely happy. I am feeling good because I beat Nestea who is considered the best in ZvZ. I studied Nestea’s builds and practiced only builds that would counter him for today.
From http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206920 Perhaps he's just lying through his teeth and you happen to know Dimaga better then he knows himself? You don't have to be lying through your teeth to be exagerating . I'm saying 10 pooling him doesn't really count as "firuging out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps." I think what Sarens did vs Idra back in Beta counts as that, but this doesn't. Back up here. First: you say he's just a cheesy player. I say he went out of his way and planned his (builds) 10 pool in order to BO win vs Nestea on that map specifically. There are several variations on 10 pool, spines vs no, workers vs no, constant lings vs pressure lings to stop a hatch first, gas vs no etc and you say "It's just a 10 pool, w/e". It's like me saying it's just a 4 gate. What's "just a 4 gate"? Sure it's not some magical new strat but you still need to figure out how to properly win with a 10 pool and practice with it aka figure out builds to beat a player on a specific map.
And he chose to pull all workers, (therefore of course making spines), and all in Nes Tea. Just like how Rain is so much better than Nes Tea because of the series where he marine scv all in'd him and won.
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On May 02 2011 07:42 dubRa wrote:
There is this guy called Stephano... You will put him on the throne not very long from now...
Nestea is Prospero, Losira is Miranda, July is Antonio, Stephano is Stephano
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:53 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 07:48 Blasphemi wrote:bkrow wrote: The fact that IdrA is the most voted player pretty much sums up how useless these results are; Nothing against IdrA just i don't believe he is the Zerg King just yet You could ask this about any race and i would say "the throne is empty" would come up near the top - i mean within each race there are a top few that could, at any moment, take games off anyone so it stands to reason that there is no single dominating force in SC2 - yet. The game is still young so i look forward to the bonjwas of the future. I would say if i had to chose one it would probably be Nestea Protoss has a King, he is called Jang Min Chul. Recent results would beg to differ; fair enough everybody loses but since the Dreamhack tournament i have not been impressed - i am mainly referring to his NASL games, which seemed like they weren't being taken to seriously; Then again if we are focussing on GSL you may have a point. However, some pro players opinions on his playstyle seem to suggest he won't be near the top for the long term picture.
2x GSL wins
1x GSL Semi
1x Dreamhack win
1x Copenhagen Games win
No other Protoss is even on the same planet as that haul, Korean or foreign.
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Can't forget that tournament he won over Bomber. Am I thinking of the Ygosu invitational?
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EPT
