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On May 01 2011 23:47 shell wrote:
the more recent games i've seen out of all these players i would rank it:
idra/july
Nestea
I know that both koreans won more then idra but i also feel idra is performing so good recently and has a new style of mixed agression, macro and mixed armies that will eventually give him gold
July is no where near NesTea's level, I'm sorry. His aggressive style got him through an entirely squishy bracket, and his inability to deal with all-ins is his downfall. NesTea holds off a 5gate stargate all in with a spore cralwer and a zergling, July loses to a 6 gate after scouting it 3 mintues ahead of time.
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54 garlicface wrote:
I recommend that you start paying attention to him again then. Since MLG, he's become one of the most consistent Zergs. Watch his matches in IPL and NASL if you can. I think he's playing some of the best SC2 of his career right now.
So basically he's beat a a lot of average foreigners and the odd decent foreigner (Socke/Kiwikaki/Select) and he's on the level of Nestea - A GSL winner, Semi finalist and who's currently in the RO8 of the current GSL?.
Idra is definitely playing the best SC2 he has since Beta but he's not won anything yet. The IPL is a great tournament in terms of production but the player pool is definitely nothing to write home about and in the NASL we're not even into the knockouts yet.
Nestea/Losira/July have all proven so much more than him at the top level. A few wins in online tournament group stages does not put you above GSL winners. Idra has actually been really inconsistant, he really should have won a lot more than nothing since he came back to the US.
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I think there's something to be said about the current zergs. None of them master all of the zerg styles, everyone simply harness their own way and don't posses enough flexibility like MC does with Protoss. They need to look to eachother and start stealing and improving their all overall gameplan to start winning more consistently.
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Advocado wrote:
I think there's something to be said about the current zergs. None of them master all of the zerg styles, everyone simply harness their own way and don't posses enough flexibility like MC does with Protoss. They need to look to eachother and start stealing and improving their all overall gameplan to start winning more consistently.
Losira is probably the most rounded Zerg player and he's a decent bet to win Code S this month.
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On May 02 2011 03:00 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +Advocado wrote:
I think there's something to be said about the current zergs. None of them master all of the zerg styles, everyone simply harness their own way and don't posses enough flexibility like MC does with Protoss. They need to look to eachother and start stealing and improving their all overall gameplan to start winning more consistently. Losira is probably the most rounded Zerg player and he's a decent bet to win Code S this month.
I love Losira but I doubt he can beat Nestea if he makes it to the ro4.
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I love Losira but I doubt he can beat Nestea if he makes it to the ro4.
They'd meat in the final wouldn't they? Losira is on the side with the TvT and Nestea with the PvP.
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/schedule/
Either way, Losira's record is actually almost as good in ZvZ as Nestea's is, obviously he's not played the same standard of players Nestea has coming from Code A but he's no scrub.
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On May 01 2011 05:30 manicshock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 02:26 Pandain wrote:On May 01 2011 02:34 manicshock wrote:
Dimaga beat Nestea by figuring out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps. It was MVP who he was playing, not MKP. IdrA and Dimaga aren't ready to become zerg kings, Losira and Nestea are very strong though. As in he 10 pooled and pulled his drones? Sometimes players do figure out these awesome timings and "figure out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps!" Sometimes players are just cheesing. Guess what, Dimaga did use those "builds to beat him specifically." Surprise? I remember somewhere he mentioned the 10 pool, but for now I can only find this quote. Show nested quote +I am extremely happy. I am feeling good because I beat Nestea who is considered the best in ZvZ. I studied Nestea’s builds and practiced only builds that would counter him for today.
From http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206920 Perhaps he's just lying through his teeth and you happen to know Dimaga better then he knows himself?
You don't have to be lying through your teeth to be exagerating  . I'm saying 10 pooling him doesn't really count as "firuging out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps." I think what Sarens did vs Idra back in Beta counts as that, but this doesn't.
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I can't stand that IdrA is considered to be an awful player by people who think about his manners rather than his play. I mean John McEnroe is infamous for being one of the most "BM" tennis players of all time, but he is still regarded as an iconic player for being great at the sport. IdrA should be treated the same way; sure he's an asshole (anyone who disagrees with that just go read some of his very sarcastic quotes, granted I often act that way towards people outside of forums, but I also consider myself an asshole haha ), but his play is remarkably good.
And as far as what he says about balance, a lot of it brings up good points. I disagree with his balance idea of "Take Terran out of the game" but there have been some points that he has brought up and he deserves more respect from the community.
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The Final Boss wrote:I can't stand that IdrA is considered to be an awful player by people who think about his manners rather than his play. I mean John McEnroe is infamous for being one of the most "BM" tennis players of all time, but he is still regarded as an iconic player for being great at the sport. IdrA should be treated the same way; sure he's an asshole (anyone who disagrees with that just go read some of his very sarcastic quotes, granted I often act that way towards people outside of forums, but I also consider myself an asshole haha ), but his play is remarkably good. And as far as what he says about balance, a lot of it brings up good points. I disagree with his balance idea of "Take Terran out of the game" but there have been some points that he has brought up and he deserves more respect from the community.
I rate Idra fairly highly and don't care about his BM but his 'remarkably good' play has won him only one major tournament and it's a bit of a stretch to call MLG DC major given no Koreans participated.
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I fucking love IdrA, and for good reason.
I'd say the "throne" is empty right now... Nestea is probably closer than anyone else, but there aint no jaedong yet.
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On May 02 2011 03:09 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 05:30 manicshock wrote:On May 01 2011 02:26 Pandain wrote:On May 01 2011 02:34 manicshock wrote:
Dimaga beat Nestea by figuring out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps. It was MVP who he was playing, not MKP. IdrA and Dimaga aren't ready to become zerg kings, Losira and Nestea are very strong though. As in he 10 pooled and pulled his drones? Sometimes players do figure out these awesome timings and "figure out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps!" Sometimes players are just cheesing. Guess what, Dimaga did use those "builds to beat him specifically." Surprise? I remember somewhere he mentioned the 10 pool, but for now I can only find this quote. I am extremely happy. I am feeling good because I beat Nestea who is considered the best in ZvZ. I studied Nestea’s builds and practiced only builds that would counter him for today.
From http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206920 Perhaps he's just lying through his teeth and you happen to know Dimaga better then he knows himself? You don't have to be lying through your teeth to be exagerating . I'm saying 10 pooling him doesn't really count as "firuging out builds to beat him specifically on specific maps." I think what Sarens did vs Idra back in Beta counts as that, but this doesn't.
Back up here. First: you say he's just a cheesy player. I say he went out of his way and planned his (builds) 10 pool in order to BO win vs Nestea on that map specifically. There are several variations on 10 pool, spines vs no, workers vs no, constant lings vs pressure lings to stop a hatch first, gas vs no etc and you say "It's just a 10 pool, w/e". It's like me saying it's just a 4 gate. What's "just a 4 gate"? Sure it's not some magical new strat but you still need to figure out how to properly win with a 10 pool and practice with it aka figure out builds to beat a player on a specific map.
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On May 02 2011 02:57 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +54 garlicface wrote:
I recommend that you start paying attention to him again then. Since MLG, he's become one of the most consistent Zergs. Watch his matches in IPL and NASL if you can. I think he's playing some of the best SC2 of his career right now. So basically he's beat a a lot of average foreigners and the odd decent foreigner (Socke/Kiwikaki/Select) and he's on the level of Nestea - A GSL winner, Semi finalist and who's currently in the RO8 of the current GSL?. Idra is definitely playing the best SC2 he has since Beta but he's not won anything yet. The IPL is a great tournament in terms of production but the player pool is definitely nothing to write home about and in the NASL we're not even into the knockouts yet. Nestea/Losira/July have all proven so much more than him at the top level. A few wins in online tournament group stages does not put you above GSL winners. Idra has actually been really inconsistant, he really should have won a lot more than nothing since he came back to the US.
Losira hasn't proven anything. He just made it to code S for the first time despite trying constantly since the release
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Losira's goddamn fantastic. He won the Code A tournament which is as competitive as any foreign tournament and perhaps as difficult as Code S. The 2 players who have won Code A (TOP and Losira) are both in the top 8 this Season of GSL.
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He seems like a very competent zerg, but he is way behind even idra in terms of achievements even if we focus solely on Korea. This isn't a judgement of skill, just pointing out that people aren't applying a consistent standard in their evaluations simply because they dislike Idra or are fans of Losira for whatever reason
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On May 02 2011 02:01 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 01:54 garlicface wrote:On May 02 2011 00:25 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
I like Idra, but I don't know how he can be overwhelmingly thought to be "the best." His dominance over even non-Koreans has no longer been the consistency it was, and though he displayed consistent showings in GSL when he was in Korean, he was consistently losing in earlier in the elimination bracket.
Hell, it seems like he's in a recent slump [although I have been busy this past week and haven't kept up to date with his progress in NASL/IPL] in recent tournaments, ie no top 10 showing at the most recent MLG, and losses in TSL3, IEM, and HD World Tournament. I recommend that you start paying attention to him again then. Since MLG, he's become one of the most consistent Zergs. Watch his matches in IPL and NASL if you can. I think he's playing some of the best SC2 of his career right now. Hard to call him the best when he's not playing the best.
Isn't that even more frightening? While to some people he may not be playing his best, he's still crushing most of his opponents. He can only get better if he continues to refine his play.
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syllogism wrote:
Losira hasn't proven anything. He just made it to code S for the first time despite trying constantly since the release
Code A March Champion (beating Supernova/Huk who are both now Code S).
At Least Ro8 in GSL May.
All Kill on Zenex in the March Team League.
Only Nestea, July and Fruitdealer have had more success than that in SC2 and unlike Fruitdealer, Losira's successes are current.
The other contenders like Idra, Morrow, Sen haven't won anything of note in 2011.
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syllogism wrote:
He seems like a very competent zerg, but he is way behind even idra in terms of achievements even if we focus solely on Korea. This isn't a judgement of skill, just pointing out that people aren't applying a consistent standard in their evaluations simply because they dislike Idra or are fans of Losira for whatever reason
Idra won MLG DC all the way back in October. His best GSL place was the Ro8 (which Losira will at least match this month). Not only was MLG DC an eternity ago in SC2 terms the player pool was in my opinion considerably weaker than March Code A. The IPL will be the first time since DC that Idra has finished top three in any meaningful tournament Korean or Foreigner.
At this stage Losira is well ahead of Idra in terms of relevant success.
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Is this a joke? Idra is 2nd?
Over guys who have actually won GSL, or gotten 2nd? Because he won an MLG a year ago?
Get real
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I am an IdrA loving moron, but i have high hopes for both July and Sen, i hope that they can both perform well and do good. I think Nestea has kinda bottomed out, but i also want for him to play well again, because it was very fun to watch him when he was on top!
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EPT
