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Why Nerfs, Patches and Whining Ruin Games - Page 9

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mrdx
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Vietnam1555 Posts
December 16 2010 21:52 GMT
#161
With this current rate of NPW, we will never see any sort of Savior's 3 hatch meta game shift or Bisu build revolution in Starcraft 2. There is just not enough time and motivation for strategic innovations.
BoxerForever.com - the one and only international Boxer fansite since 2006 :)
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
December 16 2010 22:02 GMT
#162
Didn't boxer say if they nerf terran again he's going random?

With Idra as the flagship for NPW worldwide I would say crying has gotten his race buffed and some money in his pocket. Before the patch he was always just the guy who can't beat nony and cried alot. After the patch he has become the guy who cant beat nony that cries a little.
yellowguan
Profile Joined December 2010
43 Posts
December 16 2010 22:04 GMT
#163
@Apolo
Well why don't you think about the mules usefulness?
Why don't you think about terran design in general?

Terran can't easily replace an army without taking more time than protoss's warpgates and zerg's larvae,
Terran's only useful core unit is usually the marine, requiring use of much of the mule's resources and that again, the marine is usually killed easily by a siege tank fire, collosi laser strike, or a baneling blast.
Mules does not ruin the gas economy, where the more useful high tech units are, (looking at siege tank, medivac, etc) and that still requires terran to expand.

Can Terran easily expand to an outer expo other than an expo they can inwardly push over time to the zerg? Because of this design, mules must be present to battle out Zerg's aggressive expansion design as a race (Combined with fast speed, larvae, expanding and saturating is easier); its what makes this game have different special features in each race but however, serve the same purpose: gaining an advantage of money

I can't say the same for Hydra's because i'm not a zerg user, but isn't the sole purpose for hydras the ability to snipe off certain types of air more easily then the corruptor? Having them have more usefulness as a unit will make the roach's usefulness much less useful, and the overall usage of all units will be lessened in favor of the more used hydra, which is not what blizzard wants to design.

So, what your saying about the "utterly ridiculous" is more reasonable (to a degree, though i still think OP is jumping the gun a little).

However, I do agree with what you say about conformity, we shouldn't be so conform, because Starcraft II is still in its infancy as another game of the year all years for balance, but certain things that require balance must require thought and focus on the exploration of its design and purpose.
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
December 16 2010 22:16 GMT
#164
I think some of the patches need to be thought out more clearly because now that we have discovered the races more thoroughly we find that tanks are clearly not op as everyone thought it was. Also reapers were completely taken out of the game except for scouting purposes. I am not sure if it was intended to just be a scouting unit but I really want the reaper back. Blizzard made the first minutes of the game dull and boring because of all the qq players wanted their easy expos and fast tech. Game is changing faster than nerfs are coming so please wait and think before you complain.
Somi
Profile Joined August 2010
Pakistan123 Posts
December 17 2010 00:15 GMT
#165
Guildwars was ruined by constant winning for patching.
For the Swarm!
Angelbelow
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3728 Posts
December 17 2010 00:19 GMT
#166
Haha, an idealist. Whether you like it or not people are always going to complain. Some times its annoying but sometimes we should listen.
You may delay, but time will not. Current Music obsession: Opeth
Soulish
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1403 Posts
December 17 2010 02:56 GMT
#167
On December 17 2010 01:19 Chronald wrote:
Don't do this, a fine game is like a fine ____, there are so many layers and intricacies that _____ing it once simply won't do. You have to peel away the layers of flavor and musk in order to find the true beauty of the _______.

me all in, he drone drone drone, me win
JoeSchmoe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2058 Posts
December 17 2010 03:54 GMT
#168
I read your entire post even though I was hesitant and I regret having done so. In particular I find your fundamental lack of understanding about why Blizzard creates patches disturbing. Blizzard doesn't make balance decisions based on some random kid who whines on a forum but rather through rigorous testing, feedback, and analyzing statistics. There is nothing else objective in your post even worth discussing.

btw I don't know why you bother with some silly term acronym like "npw". It makes no sense considering how patches imply nerfs.
KezseN
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Singapore1450 Posts
December 17 2010 03:59 GMT
#169
The game is still early and pretty much balanced than most games out there. Give it time like BW had and it will be near perfect,,, until the next expansion comes and messes up everything again.
To Skeleton King: "Have you considered employment at Apple?"
BROotogy
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Eritrea149 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-17 04:52:22
December 17 2010 04:45 GMT
#170
This is the way I see it..

The people complaining are like those kids in math class. When they are faced with a problem, they immediately ask the teacher for help and guidance, but they have the ability to solve the problem.


megagoten
Profile Joined October 2010
318 Posts
December 17 2010 04:53 GMT
#171
a winner's mindset: i'll find a way to win

a loser's mindset: i cannot win because it is IMBA and OP
LunarC
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1186 Posts
December 17 2010 05:02 GMT
#172
If Blizzard wants "extra APM" to be utilized, they need to design the game so that late game management is more important and so that more units require good micro to use to their fullest potential.

This means better designed maps that allow for early aggression but also make late game play require holding multiple positions and defending them adequately.

Also, I think something has to be done about the mineral overflow that occurs in the late game, because this really favors Terran like no other. This is something mappers have to consider.

The pathing system should not allow units to push other idle units out of the way. Yes, it's less efficient, but it will not affect lower level play too much and will automatically make unit control matter much more.

Lastly, they should enable animation canceling, especially the deceleration animation that units have. Of course, the Pheonix's moving shot will have to be removed.
REEBUH!!!
Solymr
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia10 Posts
December 17 2010 05:08 GMT
#173
Of course it's possible to play a 'down' race well like Boxer did and if you play a race that gets buffed you'll clearly be happy no ones gonna argue with that. However the whole aim of blizzards patching is that people of the same skill level can play different races and have close games. That's real balance and what makes a game fun for everyone.
The number J
AzurewinD
Profile Joined November 2010
United States569 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-17 05:21:37
December 17 2010 05:20 GMT
#174
"What the hell is Blizzard doing, why are they making these significant changes instead of doing minor tweaks?"


Man is this true or what.

Small changes are indeed necessary and welcome in many cases. However it's when you see ideas like Fungal growth no longer affects air (Nixed I'm aware, I'm nitpicking the thought process here), Thors no longer have energy, Reaper speed now requires a factory, Flux vanes is removed, DepotB4Rax, etc that you start to wonder how much of this should have been discovered in the beta.

Regardless of how successful or unsuccessful the above changes were, are, or will be, you can't deny that they're major design changes that are occurring sometimes months after release. Removing an entire ability or upgrade because your data finally suggests its superfluous 5 months after release to me signifies a breakdown in the fundamental development process.

Honestly I'd almost go as far as to say that at this point Blizzard shouldn't be talking about removing or completely changing the function of major pieces of gameplay unless they want to admit they screwed the pooch upon inception. If the next patch months down the line has some similar change in the patchnotes, I'll be surprised if the following patch afterwards doesn't see the removal of an entire unit (probably Warp Prism lolol) as a change.

Tweak build times, tweak damage, tweak resistances, tweak upgrades, but I don't think at this stage we should be talking about removing entire objects or overhauling prerequisites anymore. If we do, then Blizzard had damn well do a better job of setting up their fundamentals in future releases.

Now I realize this is all completely off topic. In a desperate attempt to stay on topic, I'll echo whats already been said by saying that critical discussion != whining. One is vital, the other is unproductive.
"...I want more people to be in that state more often, to see things not through the limited and rigid mind or the fearful ego, but through a heart that loves to express and create" - Xiaonan "Glider" Sun
dahornnn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United Kingdom395 Posts
December 17 2010 05:29 GMT
#175
So if the game wasn't patched, everyone would just racepick 5rr vs Z etc etc x]?
Wouldn't that be an astonishingly boring game!
Wonderhands
Profile Joined September 2010
United States7 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-17 06:28:26
December 17 2010 06:23 GMT
#176
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Chronald. Your comparison with the new-age SC2 community to the WoW community that polluted the game's once qualities (world PvP, epic 40-man raids, etc.) is a flawless comparison. NPW, and "balancing" to the ultimate level creates a banal experience where everyone and everything plays the same while simply "disguised" under the ruse of varied skins. Where WoW is now, every season of PvP, every new Dungeon, every rotation of gear, and every class of the same category (dps, healing, tanking) operates under the same mechanics, and everything is painstakingly stagnant. I fear SC2 is heading down the same road if newbies and casual gamers decide that free gifts are better than user creativity and imagination. With drastic variations in races/classes (WoW) and races/units/structures (SC2), we have ourselves a more complex and interesting schematic open to innovation. Albeit, it will not be as "balanced" as say...if everyone were to play the same race and there was only 1 race to choose from, 1 unit to make, and 1 attack for that unit. The races need to be different, and the community mindset should promote diversity, technique, and strategy. So, next time readers sit down to play some SC2, realize that in our age of attention-deficient, 2-minute quickie, channel surfing, multi-tasking society, it'll do you good to enjoy that you still have some creativity in you; just use it.


P.S. My merits include: Vanilla --> WoTLK every raid instance cleared with server's top guild; Warlock, Paladin, Rogue, Druid, Warrior, and Hunter to max level; Gladiator Seasons 1-5 with Merciless Gladiator in S2; quit @start of S6 ~2 years ago

"Good enough" is not good enough to be a champion.
SpoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1542 Posts
December 17 2010 06:27 GMT
#177
Op's post is actually wrong I stopped reading when he went on about how boxer took a weak race in sc1 and showed people shit. Its actually true that boxer used to play toss then they nerfed shuttle (or fixed a bug) where a reaver would shoot instantly and reload in the shuttle fast so he switched to terran.
A man is what he thinks about all day long.
Zim23
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1681 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-17 06:36:07
December 17 2010 06:33 GMT
#178
Look at what has happened to WoW.

Yeah that game isn't popular at all. No one plays it because of all the balance patches. I heard there's only like 9 people on the server.

Blizzard pisses me off on many counts, but I do recognize that they know how to manage this sort of situation. It might not be fast, or always correct, but they eventually get it right for the most part. They've shown it over and over again. Don't worry.
Do an arranged marriage if she's not completely minging, and don't worry about dancing, get a go-kart, cheers.
brownthing
Profile Joined November 2009
United States189 Posts
December 17 2010 06:59 GMT
#179
Ohh the irony, the OP first complains about whiners then whines about map imbalance
My probe's like the gingerbread man-you're not gonna catch that shit ~Liquid'Tyler
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2013 Posts
December 17 2010 07:08 GMT
#180
What you talking about? I remember playing a game called World of Warcraft, but if im right, it was renamed for World of Causalcraft isn't it?
o_O

What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
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