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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:56 SubPointOA wrote: you know what's an easy way to solve this instead of 60 pages of discussion? Buff Protoss The easy way isn't always the right one  Give it some time before you say that Protoss is under performing, the game is still pretty new  | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On November 08 2010 11:05 nedamise wrote: Two names (maybe three) will always pop up when you ask this question: Genius, Tester and maybe Inca and/or SangHo. However, if people would look closely and objectively at their results and current form they would see they really can't compete with the current top Terrans and Zergs. Genius is a loudmouth and arrogant however except winning Blizzcon where he wasn't up against the best (even tho there were some truly exceptional players there) he hasn't shown much. In the first GLS he got DAVITed because his weakness got exploited: teching with a low number of units. He got cheesed because of lack of scout/early game weakness...there is nothing imbalanced there although he did lose to an inferior player. Second GSL he did great until he ran into the last GSL finalist and one of the top Terrans at the moment where he got ran over. He didn't lose to an inferior player due to an imbalance, he lost to an exceptional player that is consistently producing great results in this short time that SC2 has been alive. Tester seems to be suffering from a slump at the moment so his name shouldn't even be brought up until he shows he is still a monster he used to be. Inca was doing well but was incredibly unlucky in both GSL-s. First GSL he ran into FruitDealer who six pooled him on Kulas and the game before that he got banling busted. Second GSL he lost a PvP. SangHo was impressive for the first few rounds but then ended up running into "I build Marines vs every single unit composition in the game" Foxer. And the first game where he got rushed he missed a force field and got stomped. It's pretty clear Protoss needs some changes/balance fixes to make it more dynamic and less predictable and cheesy but you also have to acknowledge that at the moment there is no Protoss hero, there is no Bisu of SC2, so you can't chuck it up purely to balance. Sad to say but the top Terran and Zerg players are at the moment just...better. This is a horribly circular argument: Protoss aren't doing well in the final stages of the GSL because they have no heroes, and they have no heroes because the best Protoss aren't making the final rounds of the GSL. | ||
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JJEOS
United States127 Posts
On November 08 2010 13:26 Jumbled wrote: This is a horribly circular argument: Protoss aren't doing well in the final stages of the GSL because they have no heroes, and they have no heroes because the best Protoss aren't making the final rounds of the GSL. They are not there because they are simply not playing as well as players like Zergbong or FoxeR. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
people have off games, some people get easier opponents than others. its just the way things are. you gotta have like at least 3 GSLs where Protoss are severely under-represented to have a problem Terran is QQ'ing so much at the moment, and they had 3 in the RO4. its such a tiny cross-section, and there's so many other variables besides race balance. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
Random idea, make zealots immune to snare once they have charge and please make protoss units more cost effective, seriously gateway units are the least cost effective units in the game. UGH. | ||
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Flummie
Netherlands417 Posts
On November 08 2010 07:35 Hellye wrote: Have you ever seen kiwikaki play? He is a BOSS with a race that is clearly UP. And you can see he really shines on PvZ cause that matchup is really balanced. The problem with protoss is the detection vs T with the forced robo BS. Never say we dont have good protoss or l2p cause that is ridiculous. Kiwikaki is a boss indeed but if you compare him (or huk or whoever) with korean players they are way behind. (almost like diamond - gold comparisation I dare to say). This thread is about GSL Skill level not about huk or kiwikaki  | ||
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Hellye
Portugal62 Posts
On November 08 2010 14:43 Flummie wrote: Kiwikaki is a boss indeed but if you compare him (or huk or whoever) with korean players they are way behind. (almost like diamond - gold comparisation I dare to say). This thread is about GSL Skill level not about huk or kiwikaki really i dont think so? But if you want Korean names there is tester, Inca, genius and SangHo. How can one proof the game is unbalanced? We can see it on win percentages on the korea servers, we see it on tournaments. Even blizzard said protoss was UP early game. | ||
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Flummie
Netherlands417 Posts
On November 08 2010 15:12 Hellye wrote: really i dont think so? But if you want Korean names there is tester, Inca, genius and SangHo. How can one proof the game is unbalanced? We can see it on win percentages on the korea servers, we see it on tournaments. Even blizzard said protoss was UP early game. I have these korean names in my mind and they aren't in the tournament anymore (lost even before the quarterfinal started) hence the name of this topic "why is protoss doing so bad @ gsl". It is always zerg and terran who have to fight it out @ GSL and it is getting really boring imo. I think Protoss needs some slight buffs in order to compete at the highest level because a more fair race destribution at toplevel play makes the game much more interesting to watch. Starcraft 2 shouldn't be about terran and zerg alone but also about protoss. | ||
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andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
Zerg cried about being crap, and got buffed after beta. Protoss cry about REAL ISSUES i.e. early units getting kited, least cost effective units of the game (cost-effective in an isolated UNIT TESTER maybe..) .. and what happens? David Kim starts thinking about how to nerf Psi storm. -_____- | ||
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xephon
Canada38 Posts
On November 08 2010 13:26 Jumbled wrote: This is a horribly circular argument: Protoss aren't doing well in the final stages of the GSL because they have no heroes, and they have no heroes because the best Protoss aren't making the final rounds of the GSL. Huk will be the one Hero. go go Huk Fighting!! | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
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PulseSUI
Switzerland305 Posts
On November 08 2010 16:50 5unrise wrote: Complaning and QQing about the early/mid game where other races can actually stand a good chance to win is ridiculous. funy, i could search a little and probably quote the exact same post made by a terran player before all the direct and indirect Zerg buffs came along. is it so hard to understand that there might actualy be something wrong with a race and that is is not a simple l2p issue? | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
On November 08 2010 16:54 PulseSUI wrote: funy, i could search a little and probably quote the exact same post made by a terran player before all the direct and indirect Zerg buffs came along. is it so hard to understand that there might actualy be something wrong with a race and that is is not a simple l2p issue? Yeah it is, especially given a race with very easy mechanics and good micro potentials, consistent good performance in tournaments, and very strong lategame. What other race has the ability to split others' armies in half and defeating each one piecemeal? Buildorders are relatively easy to perform, strong versatile static defense (shoots both air and ground, with no less hp than spine crawlers). You say you need an observer against T no matter what, that's not true. If you don't get an observer, you are only taking a risk, just like risks taken by zerg players when they fast tech or go hatch first. If you got unlucky, and did not go robo against fast banshee, that's too bad. Just because an option is risky (not go robo) doesn't mean it is non viable. The complaints I see on this thread is just ridiculous. Terran has been nerfed more than protoss, and arguably in version 1.0 TvP was the most balanced matchup out of the 3 (it was T favoured, but still more balanced than PvZ or TvZ). Terran has been nerfed, and this must also benefit protoss. High level torunaments lately also do not lack protoss winners. Take the Dallas MLG for example, TT1, a very good protoss player, got second place, while nony is also placed very high, so how is protoss suffering from disbalance? Remember in August before the patches for every single zerg tournament winner there were more than 10 terrans and toss winners, so yeah the current situation is fine as it is. This is supported by the near-50%-balance winrate of TvP across the world, and the 48% winrate in PvZ (don't cry about 2% please). So, basically, I can't see the reason behind protoss QQing from an objective standpoint. Terran has more right to QQ than toss atm, not that I believe T is significantly underpowered either. Game is balanced. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On November 08 2010 16:54 PulseSUI wrote: funy, i could search a little and probably quote the exact same post made by a terran player before all the direct and indirect Zerg buffs came along. is it so hard to understand that there might actualy be something wrong with a race and that is is not a simple l2p issue? Exactly. Terran and Zerg players were crying before and they got their changes. No one said it was the fault of the player and not the actual race. All these people saying Protoss players are QQing probably don't play Protoss at all. I've actually offraced Terran for a while and found that it's surprisingly easy to beat Protoss with Terran. Though I'm only low diamond, 1300~ so don't take this too seriously. Also, Protoss actually haven't got any buffs (don't remember any at least), they just been nerfed and nerfed and now is gonna be nerfed again. Though, from my perspective, storm is really strong, but to get there it takes a LONG time. More than half the time, the opponent can just beat you before you can get there. In all fairness, I wouldn't mind nerfing storm a bit, but I would want to see their gateway units buffed or some of the other race's units nerfed a bit. | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
On November 08 2010 17:09 Cloak wrote: It was stated earlier in the thread that some A-teamers from SC1 went to Protoss while some B-teamers went to Terran and of course the Terran B-teamers are wildly more successful because they're just that more skilled. When Bisu started sc1 he played terran, look at how successful he is after switching to protoss. Mere coincidence? Maybe some players are just better at playing terran than toss? | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
On November 08 2010 16:25 andrewwiggin wrote: Terran cried about roaches, and zerg roaches got nerfed in beta. Zerg cried about being crap, and got buffed after beta. Protoss cry about REAL ISSUES i.e. early units getting kited, least cost effective units of the game (cost-effective in an isolated UNIT TESTER maybe..) .. and what happens? David Kim starts thinking about how to nerf Psi storm. -_____- Funny that all the other races issues aren't real issues but protoss ones are :> I'm not even touching on the balance discussion but saying things like that is what makes people look like just a bunch of whiners. Also didn't Protoss do quite ok in MLG Dallas? Taking 2nd and 4th place while first zerg was only 5th. Not trying to start anything with this but just saying that maybe TT1 and Tyler could be the next non korean protoss heroes. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On November 08 2010 17:12 5unrise wrote: When Bisu started sc1 he played terran, look at how successful he is after switching to protoss. Mere coincidence? Maybe some players are just better at playing terran than toss? It's just to refute the idea there's no skilled players trying to rep Protoss. It's quite a coincidence that we have all these rising star Terrans and Zergs while everyone is trying to ignore Protoss. Zerg won the GSL and still got buffs. It's unfair for people to ask to wait until the metagame shifts in Protoss favor when Zerg and Terran have been getting their handouts at breakneck speeds. | ||
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PulseSUI
Switzerland305 Posts
On November 08 2010 17:08 5unrise wrote: What other race has the ability to split others' armies in half and defeating each one piecemeal? no other race has that option, but neither is it a option for protoss, it is a do-or-die scenario. you better place those forcefields, and better do it perfectly, and split the enemy army or you are going to die a horrible death. i would rather see forcefields nerfed and gateway units buffed so that you have a fighting chance without perfect forcefield placement. On November 08 2010 17:08 5unrise wrote: strong versatile static defense (shoots both air and ground, with no less hp than spine crawlers). what makes cannon strong is the way they are build, the cannon it self is actualy the worst of all base defenses. On November 08 2010 17:08 5unrise wrote: Just because an option is risky (not go robo) doesn't mean it is non viable. The complaints I see on this thread is just ridiculous. not going robo first sets you up for a easy buildorder victory, banshees are a quick 25 sec building away once the no-robo build was scouted. if the terran scouts it and willing to change his buildorder, it is not risky, it is a sure way to loose games. On November 08 2010 17:08 5unrise wrote: Remember in August before the patches for every single zerg tournament winner there were more than 10 terrans and toss winners, so yeah the current situation is fine as it is. did you check the updated statistics? Protoss is now down there with Zerg and will soon be overtaken by the Swarm in tournament victorys. if tournament victorys are a good argument that a race is balanced or not, then Protoss does indeed do badly right now. On November 08 2010 17:08 5unrise wrote: Game is balanced. people said that exact two words ever since release. blizzard disagrees and is working on patches, why do you still insist on calling the game balanced if the very developer claims it to be unbalanced and in need of patching? | ||
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