EPT[D] Why is protoss doing so bad in the GSL? - Page 60
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
Grond
599 Posts
| ||
|
iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:51 Grond wrote: The argument that there are no good Protoss players is ridiculous. So if Blizzard removed Stim from the game then the problem with Terran would be that their are no good Terran players? No, because there would still be good Terran players. What? There are good Protoss players, but the skill level is nowhere near the current top-tier Terran skill level. Let's just make it an exercise: name 3 protoss players better than Foxer, NaDa, and Boxer. | ||
|
SubPointOA
United States183 Posts
Buff Protoss | ||
|
TungVu
Vietnam25 Posts
| ||
|
nedamise
169 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:53 iEchoic wrote: No, because there would still be good Terran players. What? There are good Protoss players, but the skill level is nowhere near the current top-tier Terran skill level. Let's just make it an exercise: name 3 protoss players better than Foxer, NaDa, and Boxer. Two names (maybe three) will always pop up when you ask this question: Genius, Tester and maybe Inca and/or SangHo. However, if people would look closely and objectively at their results and current form they would see they really can't compete with the current top Terrans and Zergs. Genius is a loudmouth and arrogant however except winning Blizzcon where he wasn't up against the best (even tho there were some truly exceptional players there) he hasn't shown much. In the first GLS he got DAVITed because his weakness got exploited: teching with a low number of units. He got cheesed because of lack of scout/early game weakness...there is nothing imbalanced there although he did lose to an inferior player. Second GSL he did great until he ran into the last GSL finalist and one of the top Terrans at the moment where he got ran over. He didn't lose to an inferior player due to an imbalance, he lost to an exceptional player that is consistently producing great results in this short time that SC2 has been alive. Tester seems to be suffering from a slump at the moment so his name shouldn't even be brought up until he shows he is still a monster he used to be. Inca was doing well but was incredibly unlucky in both GSL-s. First GSL he ran into FruitDealer who six pooled him on Kulas and the game before that he got banling busted. Second GSL he lost a PvP. SangHo was impressive for the first few rounds but then ended up running into "I build Marines vs every single unit composition in the game" Foxer. And the first game where he got rushed he missed a force field and got stomped. It's pretty clear Protoss needs some changes/balance fixes to make it more dynamic and less predictable and cheesy but you also have to acknowledge that at the moment there is no Protoss hero, there is no Bisu of SC2, so you can't chuck it up purely to balance. Sad to say but the top Terran and Zerg players are at the moment just...better. | ||
|
5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
Toss is very competitive and there are no need for major changes. | ||
|
Vz0
Canada378 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:53 iEchoic wrote: No, because there would still be good Terran players. What? There are good Protoss players, but the skill level is nowhere near the current top-tier Terran skill level. Let's just make it an exercise: name 3 protoss players better than Foxer, NaDa, and Boxer. lol easy inca genius ssKs they are WAY WAY WAY better than nada and boxer (foxer we don't know yet) boxer and nada are pretty horrible compared to most of the top terrans out there at the moment Clide, oGsTOP, oGSTheSTC, SeleCT, QXC, Drewbie, TLO, etc etc and other american Terrans. (none of this is based on any stats but simple personal biasism) They are however stellar for time they've played. Put any one else in boxer or nada's shoes and they'd barely be able to compete in tournaments never mind get so far in them. | ||
|
nedamise
169 Posts
Clide, oGsTOP, oGSTheSTC, SeleCT, QXC, Drewbie, TLO, etc etc and other american Terrans. Clide was hyped by Artosis and showed nothing for it, TOP didn't qualify. No idea where the hell is STC hiding. TLO is a Zerg and the rest of the American Terrans are unproven if you discount personal bias. People underestimate Boxer because he is "old" and seems gimmicky but Genius really didn't have an easy time vs Loner while Boxer roflstomped him. His ZvT seems mediocre at best but he admitted it himself. Still a great player and will only get better. Nada has a monstrous macro but seems to struggle with TvT (at least in his public matches/replays). Better examples are ITR and Foxer. ITR is consistent and scary while Foxer is just....absurd. | ||
|
taintmachine
United States431 Posts
| ||
|
nedamise
169 Posts
On November 08 2010 11:24 taintmachine wrote: foxer has the best micro we've seen so far out of anyone really, but nada and boxer don't seem so special that they outshine the better players of other races. they are legends of bw and the rts scene in general, but it's just pure fanboyism if you think they're proven over other top players in sc2. I didn't place them above other Terrans because they are not well rounded players so far, they have gaping holes in their play. However, you should also understand that the amount of talent between them is ridiculous and if they can fix those holes they will be really, really scary. | ||
|
imareaver3
United States906 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:53 iEchoic wrote: No, because there would still be good Terran players. What? There are good Protoss players, but the skill level is nowhere near the current top-tier Terran skill level. Let's just make it an exercise: name 3 protoss players better than Foxer, NaDa, and Boxer. They sure wouldn't look good. Compare, say, ZergBong's play from before and after the Zerg buff patch. Hell, compare half of the Zerg in the GSL's play before and after that patch! Players who looked decidedly mediocre--even bad--suddenly were revealed to be really amazing players once the matchups became less T- and P- favored and Zerg gained variety and the ability to execute new openings. There's no reason to say that small P buffs wouldn't do the same for P--if we gain the ability to open with something besides robo PvT, then new, innovative builds can emerge that will show the real strengths of players like NexGenius, who right now are just getting knocked out for trying to be innovative and not going standard 2-3 gates + robo--> colossi every game. I'd bet that if stim was removed, Foxer would suddenly start looking like a mediocre-to-bad player (And I'm not saying he is one...), because it's a cornerstone of his marine-oriented play. In fact, all Terrans would look bad, because without stim, they wouldn't be able to do anything to a variety of midgame timing pushes. | ||
|
us.insurgency
United States330 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:56 SubPointOA wrote: you know what's an easy way to solve this instead of 60 pages of discussion? Buff Protoss Blizzard is going to nerf high templar, | ||
|
PROJECTILE
United States226 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:53 iEchoic wrote: No, because there would still be good Terran players. What? There are good Protoss players, but the skill level is nowhere near the current top-tier Terran skill level. Let's just make it an exercise: name 3 protoss players better than Foxer, NaDa, and Boxer. I think the point is that it's unlikely statistically for there to be several top level players for 2 of the races and not the other one. Which is true. | ||
|
s4m222
United States272 Posts
in bw you had to look back to your base to macro... not to a certain point, people had unit producing structures hotkeys to like 4-5-6-7-8-9-0 not necessarily all of these, and you do reach a point where you need to look back to produce from every building. Protoss, although warp in is cool and useful, it does require you to stop whatever your doing and find a pylon and warp, while terran can que up, focus on micro a little more. Zerg selects hatch ques up units resume micro. Protoss must look away warp warp warp (doesnt take more than 2 seconds) but you must look away unless your fighting by a pylon | ||
|
Grond
599 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:53 iEchoic wrote: No, because there would still be good Terran players. What? There are good Protoss players, but the skill level is nowhere near the current top-tier Terran skill level. Let's just make it an exercise: name 3 protoss players better than Foxer, NaDa, and Boxer. Are any of them actually better than Tester or is their race just stronger. There is no way to prove it either way. General consensus seems to be Terran is stronger until Protoss gets Colossus and HT's. Good Terrans end the game before it gets that far. | ||
|
SubPointOA
United States183 Posts
On November 08 2010 11:33 us.insurgency wrote: Blizzard is going to nerf high templar, RAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGE | ||
|
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On November 08 2010 10:53 iEchoic wrote: No, because there would still be good Terran players. What? There are good Protoss players, but the skill level is nowhere near the current top-tier Terran skill level. Let's just make it an exercise: name 3 protoss players better than Foxer, NaDa, and Boxer. Your logic is completely wrong. How do you know that their skill-level higher or lower? Maybe they are losing because their race is UP or maybe because they are bad. Look at zergs, do you think after patch 1.2 they magically become good? or they were good but had poor results due to the race disadvantage? Same might be happening with protoss. | ||
|
Knutzi
Norway664 Posts
| ||
|
FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Comparing injection, warp in and terran base management. Zerg has it the easiest, after that is the toss and then the terran don't even know where to build my productions late game D: . Atleast it is like that for me. (played random for some time and it ruined my terran macro hehe, since with the other races base management was so damn easy) Well have to say as toss, i had more stargates and robos then gates most of the games, because the robo air combination is just awesome early/mid game. Just a bit to much micro at 200 supply for me. The thing i noticed is that alot of protoss either just expand blindly into an early push, or build like 32 probes for one base wasting some mins and giving the enemy a window for a push. | ||
|
GoldenH
1115 Posts
On November 08 2010 11:33 us.insurgency wrote: Blizzard is going to nerf high templar, "Gee we have this unit that costs 150 gas, is super slow, casts 2 spells,but can merge into a crappy unit when it runs out of energy. Its obviously inferior to this other unit that can burrow and move very quickly, casts 3 spells, one of which can deal singlehandedly with large units. But people are having trouble with the inferior unit, lets nerf its spell." Fungal Growth: Does 36 damage / 8 seconds. Radius 2. Immobilizes any unit. Reveals cloaked unit so all other units can shoot it. Psi Storm: Does 80 damage / 4 seconds. Radius 1.5. Does damage to cloaked unit, but doesn't immobilize them, so they often run out of the radius taking only 1 round of damage. Hmmm gee they look pretty even, what should blizzard do? | ||
| ||
