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Does Terran Have a Higher Micro-Skill Cap? - Page 2

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Beef Noodles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States937 Posts
October 29 2010 23:06 GMT
#21
For yall saying zerg, I partially agree: zerg does have lots of micro. But I feel that terran micro yields better results because and a ranged unit benefits more from micro than a mele unit. Also terrans will often have to cast more moves (stim, siege mode, and raven shtuff)

But hmmm, if you are fruit dealer and you always have blings in your overlords... thats a lot of micro

Its a close call haha
Beef Noodles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States937 Posts
October 29 2010 23:08 GMT
#22
On October 30 2010 08:05 Gnax wrote:
Late game protoss definitely got the highest micro skill cap. You can basically micro each and every unit in a protoss army and get more and more out of them.

I've never seen a protoss player use their force fields, storms, colossi focus fire, zealots and stalkers etc etc used optimaly.

What I have seen though is Terran players use their armies to perfection.

What? How can you make that last claim? We are soooo far from micro perfection
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
October 29 2010 23:08 GMT
#23
I don't know why people keep talking about skill caps. No one can really predict what would happen between ideal players with perfect macro, we humans will never get close. What matters is how much micro is involved proportional to macro and strategy and positioning and all that jazz. Also whether the micro's actually skill or whether it's just clicking buttons mindlessly.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
October 29 2010 23:09 GMT
#24
I still think that's about right, at least the part about Protoss being the micro intensive race. Even the fundamental feature of the race - having expensive and slow building units with recharging shields pretty much tells you from the get go that these are not the sort units that are expendable and that you're expected to use your own skill in controlling them to get them to be cost-efficient.

Terran dropping is really more about multitasking and "mechanical" micro (which Protoss has covered with Phoenixes that a lot of people avoid like plague because of multitasking + micro requirements). Marine/Marauder micro is fairly basic as well - concave, kiting, that's about it. It's more about group control than anything else.

I'd like to hear the arguments for Terran competing in micro intensity with some of the following, early game to late game:

o Zealot / Stalker micro - (early game) using Zealot as melee units as a buffer between the enemy army with ranged attack and your own Stalkers.

o Blink Stalker micro - self explanatory and definitely a high skill cap.

o Using Immortals properly - even though a lot of people seem to think of it as a "tank" unit, it really gets focused down too easily if exposed, is bulky and has short range.

o Void Ray charge - okay, it's a "bit" nerfed by the patch so it may not be worth it at the moment, but again a very high skill - high reward move.

o Phoenix - a unit that relies "only" on speed, awesome when you control it, dies to absolutely everything when you don't.

o Forcefields and Feedback - might not be a big deal by themselves, but these kind of timing / targetting abilities that Protoss more or less has to use come as additional strain when doing any of the above. Getting just the right Forcefields also involves quick thinking and deciding on-the-spot, so it's far from a trivial matter.
MoreFaSho
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1427 Posts
October 29 2010 23:12 GMT
#25
I mean I think the whole idea of a micro "skill-cap" seems silly. Strong BW players could individually control marines in a small group. In theory someone could individually micro a very large group of zerglings (think almost pure zergling army), to get perfect surround, maximizing damage, etc. This would involve a much higher skill cap than a protoss player controlling 8 colossus and 40 stalkers with the same nature, but the gain from it is almost meaningless.

Here's a really bold claim:
Zerg will benefit the most from having ridiculously accurate and fast micro because while there non-micro-intensive ways of playing almost every matchup, in ZvZ it's almost impossible to avoid.
I always try to shield slam face, just to make sure it doesnt work
BetterFasterStronger
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States604 Posts
October 29 2010 23:12 GMT
#26
On October 30 2010 08:05 Gnax wrote:
Late game protoss definitely got the highest micro skill cap. You can basically micro each and every unit in a protoss army and get more and more out of them.

I've never seen a protoss player use their force fields, storms, colossi focus fire, zealots and stalkers etc etc used optimaly.

What I have seen though is Terran players use their armies to perfection.



probably cause you need 5 bases mining to support that unit composition lol.
Top 200 as Protoss - Switched to Terran. 0-30 against EGiNcontroL... God damnet
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
October 29 2010 23:13 GMT
#27
I remember Idra saying this once and it was a really good point:
There is a macro skill cap cause macro is just you and the game.
There's no micro skill cap, however, because micro is you against another player. There's no perfect micro because what's required changes with wat the other player does, and therefore is situational. to be perfect in micro you'd ahve to perfectly read what the other guy is going to do, which you cant
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
Gnax
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden490 Posts
October 29 2010 23:16 GMT
#28
On October 30 2010 08:08 Beef Noodles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2010 08:05 Gnax wrote:
Late game protoss definitely got the highest micro skill cap. You can basically micro each and every unit in a protoss army and get more and more out of them.

I've never seen a protoss player use their force fields, storms, colossi focus fire, zealots and stalkers etc etc used optimaly.

What I have seen though is Terran players use their armies to perfection.

What? How can you make that last claim? We are soooo far from micro perfection


Well maybe a program that was able to move every unit back when they take damage and stuff could do it better, but not a human. There have been many players who have microed their MMM armies pretty much perfectly. I've seen Maka, Loner, IntoTheRainbow, Morrrow etc do it.
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
October 29 2010 23:16 GMT
#29
This is really silly.
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