have to give credit to ipan as he was the person who posted this for me to see
now this third party stuff may seem suspect, especially since there are map hacks among other things, but i guess just take it with a grain. but bliz may be warming up the pimp hand for all these cheaters.
check it out this guy in this link was banned for "macro keys" or so he claims.
"So i was banned last friday for using " Third party hardware that creates an unfair advantage"
i was using the g19 logitech keyboard.
aparently bliz has a way to find if you macro onto keyboards.
I was using it for build orders, very simple macros to pop out some units with one button instead of 2.
wtf.
had to buy the game and recreate my account..... i talked to bliz over the weekend to try and unban my account. they eventually caved and just wiped my leauge record. although the cd key was still banned so i still needed a new game.....
basically everything multiplayer was wiped and they warned me that if I use a macro enabled keyboard in multiplayer again they would ban me.
then i asked about the sc2 keyboard out on the market right now, dont have the link, but its basically supported by blizzard.
they said only 3rd party hardware/software is bannable.
i have lost some respect for blizzard.
AND I WAS JUST PROMOTED INTO PLATINUM!!! I HAD A 82-45 w/l ratio
FU blizz FU big time"
**edit** Thanks Merikh
Here Is an update from blizzard on the matter in response to a question from Merikh.....if you do use a macro keyboard that is fine but using the macro features in the game is not.
Macros are cheap. I support Blizzard's decision but only if they are overbearing and not abusive. Banning his key so he has to spend another $60 is not right. No warning either? For shame.
pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
This is a good thing imo. I wonder though if they ban everybody who uses these keyboards or just people who actually program macros and use them on these keyboards. After all there could be a lot of copper-platinum players who had this keyboard for a while, didn't use it for macro and didn't know it was against the terms of service.
Good, people shouldn't be allowed to use macros of any kind. I do wish that Blizz would send them a warning of some kind that said if they were caught using macro enabled hardware again they would ban them rather than just have the ban hammer come out of the blue, but regardless, a step in the right direction.
Hmm i have been using logitech g15 since the beta and was not banned. I don't use any macros for starcraft 2, though. Still the story god me kinda worried, since as far as i know blizzard has rights to ban any account anytime they want. Perheps what they do is they check repeating fast squences of "keystrokes" rather then type of your keyboard(if thats even possible) and one is safe as long as he is not using them macros
"then i asked about the sc2 keyboard out on the market right now, dont have the link, but its basically supported by blizzard.
they said only 3rd party hardware/software is bannable."
The fact that they are only enforcing it on third party hardware while allowing Blizzard-supported products to remain in use is pretty damning if true.
On August 24 2010 04:04 mahnini wrote: pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
Awesome? Awesome in what way? That they seem to be more lenient towards drophackers like ownage then people who employ macros?
On August 24 2010 04:07 RoyalCheese wrote: Hmm i have been using logitech g15 since the beta and was not banned. I don't use any macros for starcraft 2, though. Still the story god me kinda worried, since as far as i know blizzard has rights to ban any account anytime they want. Perheps what they do is they check repeating fast squences of "keystrokes" rather then type of your keyboard(if thats even possible) and one is safe as long as he is not using them macros
Heh, they are not going to ban you for having a G15 keyboard That would be quite a few people.
lol if this is true then it looks like Activision strikes again.
hilarious that they only let u use supported macro keyboards but not 3rd party. Does that mean at some point they will only let u use supported regular keyboards and mice? What about monitors? Next thing you know, you will only be allowed to play Starcraft 2 on a blizzard endorsed pc model from some blizzard supported brand name.
I find it hard to believe this one guy gets banned yet there is no news on other blatant ladder hackers. (unless those guys got banned and I missed the thread )
I hope they keep banning (or wiping accounts) of people who use macros, it's just cheating plain and simple. You want to have better macro, do it yourself!
On August 24 2010 04:16 a176 wrote: I find it hard to believe this one guy gets banned yet there is no news on other blatant ladder hackers. (unless those guys got banned and I missed the thread )
This guy could be one of the aforementioned blatant hackers. We have nothing to go by but his word, and how good is the word of a blatant hacker?
Maybe next time the user will read the terms and regulations when he installs starcraft instead of just checking the little box and clicking next. Blizzard states in its SC2 policy that use of third party hardware/software that creates and unfair advantage is prohibited. Blizzards stance in the past has allowed macros that the user creates. (In Wow you where only allowed to program macros that you physically typed out, so pressing one hotkey in SC and having multiple actions take place is in violation and consistent with blizzard's past actions.) I don't feel sorry for people that cant read.
On-The-Fly Macro Recording Allows For Effortless Configuration Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus.
On-The-Fly Macro Recording allows for Effortless Configuration Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus
A keyboard designed specifically for SC2 can get you banned?
So would they ban me if I use that starcraft 2 keyboard and use macros? That would seem like really unfair. Someone should get some publicity on this and really embarrass blizzard.
On August 24 2010 04:04 mahnini wrote: pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
This, frankly i just think the guy is trolling. I mean steel series already sells a keyboard with maro keys labeled sc2 so this is unlikely.
I really doubt this is true, If the razer sc2 keyboard can use macros then its ridiculous to ban people for macros. I don't think macros should be used at all, but you cant sell/endorse a product then ban people for use it, or one that's similar.
I have a g11 and the only macros I have bound are for the global controls on my music player so i can control it in game with out alt+tab
That you're allowed key macro's using Blizzard supported hardware definitely smells like an Activision prank. Of course it'd be baseless accusation without a source so if anyone would know the details on that, I'd be interested to hear.
I believe advanced macros have been bannable in WoW for quite a long time so it carrying over to SC2 wouldn't be surprising. You have to remember that the SC2 keyboards/mouses actually aren't created by Blizzard but rather a few companies have bought the rights to slap those sc2/wow stickers on them and market them as made for game x, y and z.
People shouldn't jump in to conclusions and think that Blizzard licensed keyboards aren't going to be banned. That would be absolutely retarded and it's not very realistic that Blizzard has created antihack software that specifically targets their "rival" products.
This is so ridiculous. Not only do they not give a warning, but they basically outright say you can use blizzard sponsored hardware that supports macros but not third party hardware. How much more greedy can they get?
On-The-Fly Macro Recording allows for Effortless Configuration Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus
A keyboard designed specifically for SC2 can get you banned?
Nope. Blizzard said the ones they themselves sponsor are fine according to the guy who was banned.
On August 24 2010 04:27 Puosu wrote: I believe advanced macros have been bannable in WoW for quite a long time so it carrying over to SC2 wouldn't be surprising. You have to remember that the SC2 keyboards/mouses actually aren't created by Blizzard but rather a few companies have bought the rights to slap those sc2/wow stickers on them and market them as made for game x, y and z.
i doubt blizzard is so lame as to allow people to sport branded gear without finding out what they gear is in full before hand.
All this talk about Blizz official keyboards benig ban-safe. Ever consider the way in which the macros are encoded or created are proper on one keyboard and in violation on another? I do understand the anger from the discrepancies but i think blizz will ether ban everyone or issue a statement on why such actions have been taking against specific individuals. Until than just play by the rules. Blizz bug/hardware stance
Edit: Also all these posts begging for a warning first, Blizz has already warned everybody. Just read. Lastly doesn't blizz have the clause in the terms of regulations that all matters involving the game are blizz's property and they can ban you for whatever reason they see fit? I know WoW had a very similar clause
Blizzard also bans people in WoW for using G15 keyboard macros.
Their stance was something along the lines of "We aren't going to ban you for using a macro keyboard, but we will ban you for using macros that automate your actions"
So basically, don't use macros to automate anything in the game.
I just use my macro keys as location hotkeys and backspace. Seems like macros would be a hindrance anyways.
According to that thread, he got a refund back (from his 2nd copy), and now is playing again...pretty weak, but at least Blizzard did something instead of nothing.
(Love the title of this thread by the way...hopefully a ton of people get their deserved bans soon...)
Kid didnt get banned for using a G19 keyboard... he got banned for cheating with it... im glad it happened and glad he has to buy a new game. Hope the same starts happening to hackers
On August 24 2010 04:04 heishe wrote: This is a good thing imo. I wonder though if they ban everybody who uses these keyboards or just people who actually program macros and use them on these keyboards. After all there could be a lot of copper-platinum players who had this keyboard for a while, didn't use it for macro and didn't know it was against the terms of service.
I'd bet a lot that you are just a hacker that "just used a macro", nearly every hacker hacks even though they are not ready to take the punishment if they are caught so they all go crying to support "THIS MUST BE A MISTAKE!". And well, if Warden detected macros we wouldn't have just one single person saying this, we'd have at least a few thousand. Or it could be that you just threatened to kill some guy that beat you in a game or whatever and got nailed for it, I'm 100% sure though that Warden does not detect macros.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard would do such a thing.
A warning is one thing, but banning is just ridiculous. When Blizzard starts banning people without warning over macros, it's kind of them waving their banhammer around. What stops them from banning people who aren't even using macros but have them on their keyboards?
Funny enough maphackers are still roaming ladder and Blizzard has there own macro keyboards :/
( I'm not saying it's good to use macros, it's obviously an advantage, but I feel Blizzard dealt with this in an unprofessional way.)
On August 24 2010 04:33 rifi wrote: Blizzard also bans people in WoW for using G15 keyboard macros.
Their stance was something along the lines of "We aren't going to ban you for using a macro keyboard, but we will ban you for using macros that automate your actions"
So basically, don't use macros to automate anything in the game.
I just use my macro keys as location hotkeys and backspace. Seems like macros would be a hindrance anyways.
They never banned shit in wow if your macro was short, advance G15 macros could repeat a action well enough that you would roam around a area and just farm killing things when written properly. Really more or less botting, when i played wow no one was banned for using G15 to do something like sell all items in inventory or doing mass heals etc, hell because blizz already allows plug-ins that already do that. There stance on wow was purely against botting.
he's trolling and embellishing... seriously guys if you were banned for hacking to save face wouldn't you blame the ban on macro use? It's not worth Blizzards resources on banning script based macros, seriously they don't give a shit about that. Messing with their IP in any way will bring you to their attention...
some of you people are so sad. It's a video game, who cares if people are making macros. Blizz never said anything was wrong with it and it should be illegal for them to ban an account for it
I read some of his previous posts. Four days ago he posted a topic complaining about being forced to use certain hotkeys. He stated that one of his friends got banned for using macros...
Seems kind of attention whorish. But maybe he's telling the truth. He should provide picture proof or something.
I guess Blizzard could identify a macro if a player executes a series of commands faster than a human could. Hard to believe, though.
Doubt it is because of his keyboard. I use a G15 since it has been released, programmed simple macros for WoW aswell as in SC2. Nothing like BOs etc., in SC2 I have a macro to type "gl hf " in the beginning. I know, I'm lazy
On August 24 2010 04:56 howerpower wrote: some of you people are so sad. It's a video game, who cares if people are making macros. Blizz never said anything was wrong with it and it should be illegal for them to ban an account for it
Cause it breaks all competitive-ness, maybe baller can help with a good analogy but I cant. The terms of service is huge, im sure theres something in there that says no 3rd party software/hardware
also here at TL we crave balance, since we've been so used to it from BW days, how can you play against a person who will have near perfect macro.
Maybe you lower level players don't give a shit, but once you get to the higher levels the game completely changes, and needs to be balanced. A macro keyboard vs regular keyboard is NOT balanced.
BW hack detectors like BWHF used to detect multiselect/multicommand hacks due to the speed at which the commands could be input (faster than humanly possible), perhaps blizzard's code flagged it as a multicommand-esque hack? i don't really see a difference in how they would appear to a hack detector, whether it's software or a keyboard macro.
macros are for noobs once u reach certain level of play using them is just pain in ass ... then only good ones are simple things (rocket jump, duck crouch) - but since they are easy to do there is no real reason to use them. Another "useful" macros are ones that abuse some game bug or failed game setting (making pistol shoot like machine gun) - this thing is rather game makers fault and in most cases is fixed in next patch ;D Crying for macros is like crying for cheese or draw on ladder games ...
Well, as a formerly long-standing WoW player, the "official" blizzard stance has always been "You can't use a keyboard macro to accomplish anything you cannot tie to a single keypress in-game".
So, for example, with the built-in Macro functionality in WoW, I could setup so that I could go through my entire rotation spamming one single key. The "key" of it all being, one keypress still equaled one action...so to lay it out a bit....
I could either cycle through my abilities pressing 2-3-4-4-5-6 Or I could press the 2 key 6 times with a macro.
Or I could be banned for pressing 2 once to go through the whole thing on a G15
I won't comment on the other forum's post though...seems a little, well, farfetched to me.
EDIT: I'm not saying that the G15 is inherently bad...but setting it up to essentially spam keypresses for you is "bad" per Blizzard's standpoint, at least in WoW. I have a G15 keyboard, and I've never got in trouble for using it smartly in either of WoW or SC2. In SC2, for example, I have my G keys bound to the keys for 6-7-8-9-0...I find it "easier" to hit the G-keys to select building control groups than the number keys, but hitting a button does the same as a number-key...it selects that control group...it doesn't build anything for me.
This seems difficult to believe. With all the map hackers and disc hackers on right now they ban someone using a macro on a keyboard when the SCII keyboard does the same thing???
I hope this is true. I don't like the idea of someone using macros against me that's kinda lame. As long as they are consistent and ban people who use "sc2" keyboards when laddering too.
Fake story or not, I dont think anyone is questioning the ethical implications of macros: they're cheating. However I do agree that if blizz is going to adopt such a policy, a little notice then a story like this would be appreciated, and it definitely does not warrant making the individual have to buy another copy of the game; they do that enough with the exclusion of cross realm play. I try to keep faith in blizz through some of this but they're making it difficult. Activision is poison.
it's not about the fact that macros are bad...it's just very hard for me to believe blizzard would ban somebody without a warning or anything just because they want to especially if you think about WoW and the razor keyboard
So... i use a microsoft sidewinder mouse and i rebound one of the mouse buttons to backspace (toggle through town halls)... can i get banned for this?!
This is fake -Poster registered on the site 10 days ago -Posted claims to be 81-45 (gold league) -Poster makes "I need help" threads at 81-45 -I checked hacking sites and people haven't even been banned for anything.
On August 24 2010 05:46 Fodder03 wrote: So... i use a microsoft sidewinder mouse and i rebound one of the mouse buttons to backspace (toggle through town halls)... can i get banned for this?!
I seem to remember seeing a blue some time ago mention that 1 to 1 rebind macros are fine. I do the same with having a different profile so my build worker key is the same for each race.
On August 24 2010 05:52 PokePill wrote: This is fake -Poster registered on the site 10 days ago -Posted claims to be 81-45 (gold league) -Poster makes "I need help" threads at 81-45 -I checked hacking sites and people haven't even been banned for anything.
how does any of this prove he is lying? The only evidence that would be worth sharing is the last fact, and that just makes me suspicious of you.
I wish they would start banning everyone programming macro functions into their keyboards or mice. Gaming is so full of cheating, hacking, and abusing because communities have such relaxed attitudes about it. But yeah this single instance of banning, even if true, doesn't mean anything has changed about Blizzard or it's policies on these things. We need more data before speculating.
On August 24 2010 04:04 mahnini wrote: pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
I agree, but WoW is mostly PvE and they have a /macro feature for WoW(which is kinda complicated too btw)
They just need to also take this approach for hackers
my only question is, if you use a device that makes macros possible, but you don't use the macros, will they ban you on a false positive? That would seriously piss me off. I use both a Razer Naga and a Belkin n52te, which both have macro capabilities, but I don't use that feature. I hope they don't just check your hardware type and say, "oh! here's a cheater! Ban."
EDIT: I suppose I should read more than just the OP. Thanks for checking up on this guys! :D
Regardless of the truth, banning people for using a macro keyboard while not banning others from a sponsored or endorsed keyboard is an antitrust issue. You're clearly leveraging your product to keep others out of the market.
I don't think people should use macro keyboards but on the same token there are plenty of other things that can impact the game other than simple keyboards. My friend came over to my house recently when he came into town for a bit. It only took him 1 game on large moniter to notice a significant difference between it and his smaller monitor. The fact that theres that little bit of the screen that you can see at one point can mean the difference between pulling back in time or not. It may not be a tremendous advantage but stuff like this will always exist. 2 people of even skill same equipment and then one buys a better mouse that scrolls a lot more accurately or what not and then he starts winning more of his games.
As far as ladder goes people should get to use the equipment they want (as long as it doesn't include hacking). But in tournaments they should make sure everyone is on even footing.
I had a friend who would set up entire grinding systems on WoW using the g15 macros. He would go to school, and his character would be grinding and looting all day. He would do it in his sleep, for battlegrounds too.
The power of macros is seriously daunting when you get into it. He set up the system on my g15 as well.
I would like to have seen a stern warning, very stern. But, i love that they are going to ban people with the macro shit. It's certainly cheating when other players are beating the hell out of their keyboards while trying to keep up with your single button.
The policy is similar to Blizzard's world of warcraft policy: "one keystroke = one action". Here is a discussion with GMs about autohotkey and the G15 keyboard on the wow forums from (http://elitistjerks.com/f32/t25906-autohotkey_thread/).
AHK is not a program prohibited by Blizzard. However, some of its functions are prohibited by Blizzard. It's very similar to the policy on the G15 keyboard. You cannot use AHK or the G15 keyboard to spam a single key -- even if you are sitting at the keyboard and just want to prevent your finger from falling off. However, there has been no blue post prohibiting using AHK to multi-box. And as always, you can use a G15 keyboard to see who is talking in vent, have more keys to bind to macros, etc.
Here's the best blue response I've seen so far on the issue:
WoW Forums -> Seeking Blue clarification: key repeating
Hello Blizzard,
After unsuccessfully attempting to get clarification via an in-game ticket, I would like to see if the rules can be clarified regarding key repeating software. In light of recent bans, it is unclear what is or isn't allowed, and bearing in mind the majority of players want to follow the rules, it would be of great help if a statement could be made regarding key repeating software.
Previously, the apparent community understanding had been: if it doesn't automate gameplay, and requires you to be present at the keyboard playing the game, then it is legal. It seems with recent bans, this may not actually be the case.
My specific question is: is it okay to use software (or hardware drivers, or external hardware devices) that continually repeat ("spam") a key bound in-game to a macro or ability while another key is held down and while a player is present at the keyboard playing the game? For Hunters, for instance, spamming our shot rotation macro. I'm sure other classes have similar needs, perhaps not 10-20 times per second like a Hunter, but the same idea. Many aspects of the game make key spamming desirable, but is it legitimate to use external drivers/software to achieve it?
I'd love to not have to break my keyboard, fingers, and wrist to achieve maximum DPS, but I would also hate to wake up one morning and find I was banned for using a repeater. Please help myself and other Hunters follow the rules
This is not okay. One hardware function = one action, according to standard macro rules. A hardware function is a keypress (including press/release) associated with movement and an ability/item. Obviously, our default macro rules enable you to use 'modifying' trinkets or abilities, such as nature's swiftness, plus a single spell all in a single press.
To clarify: No, you may not use hardware or software to auto-spam your shot rotations - period.
I use a G15. Using the G15 macro functions to create macros which incorporate delays, or otherwise use multiple abilities that each have a global cooldown on a single keypress has never been supported. It is automation, and is against our policies listed here:
Terms of Use, Part 4, Section B WoW -> Legal -> Terms of Use
This thread in our CS Forum Information Haven!, to which I've replied previously, may help illuminate the issue for you:
G15 Keyboard Legality WoW Forums -> Need official response regarding Logitech G15 WoW Forums -> G15 keyboard and bans
The G15 may have the ability to continually activate an ability as long as you keep the key pressed but that is not a function that is permitted by our policies.
Assuming the policies between wow and sc2 are similar (and there's no reason to believe sc2 would be any less strict), you can theoretically be banned for any keyboard macroing that results in more than one action per keystroke.
Realistically speaking, you can only be caught if you do something egregious, for example, spamming a macro that jumps you to an average 2000 APM in a match. In those cases, it is likely you'll be caught by blizzard automation or your opponents that look back at your replays and calls shenanigans on your APM.
On August 24 2010 07:15 Merikh wrote: Also I just confirmed again:
Since when blizzard's employees answer from their personal email addresses assigned to their accounts? lol
Second thing, as far as I can seen besides pathetic fake email, it relates anyway to World Of Warcraft, since the answerer got WOW_GM ( game master ) in his email. This makes it fake as well, since it's well known that stuff like G5 or mutliboxing are allowed in WOW.
I don't want player-made macros in the game, but if what is said in that thread is too, it seems as if Blizzard has some double standards. In the thread, the guy quotes Blizzard in saying third-party tools specifically aren't allowed, but the new Razer SC2-themed gear (which creates macros) is no problem. Just because they want to push their brand/products doesn't mean they should have double standards
Good. Silly dumbfucks using macros for SC2 is something I am glad to hear is not going unnoticed. "Something simple like replacing 2 buttons with 1"? What about: Pressing 2 buttons like the rest of us? Replacing 2 buttons with 1 sounds like a small thing, but I'd say its a lot more in the grand scheme of things. It cuts key presses in half in that situation..
"Thanks everyone for the support. I finalized everything with blizzard this morning. they can't unban a key for some odd reason but they are sending me a refund for the game. Luckily the first one was a digital download from their website and i saved all the info for the purchase.
my new key (from gamestop) has been linked to my now unbanned email and real ID.
My campaign and multiplayer achievements and rank are all wiped. I have to replay campaign and do all the guide 1-2 and 3 achievments all over.
luckily my gold challanges were still there although it says not completed for them all instead of giving me my best time or whatever when you mouse over them.
but thats pretty much the end of that.
I sent them an email asking how they endorse their own macro keyboards and not 3rd party. i sent that email saturday, still no respose. and every other email i sent about the account has gotten a 0min response.
edit the damn heart is supposed to be less than 30"
So it looks like he did get a refund, but macros are not allowed.
On August 24 2010 07:24 Merikh wrote: Also wtf is wrong with his/her spelling? lol
Seriously?
first email: macro's --> macros Its --> It's cant --> can't (I know, people drop apostrophes, but he clearly doesn't know how to use them across the board) also, could change "must have to" to "have to"; this one's debatable, and is a matter of style rather than spelling or grammar
second email: your --> you're
Anyway, on topic, thanks for getting the clarification.
On August 24 2010 07:15 Merikh wrote: Also I just confirmed again:
Since when blizzard's employees answer from their personal email addresses assigned to their accounts? lol
Second thing, as far as I can seen besides pathetic fake email, it relates anyway to World Of Warcraft, since the answerer got WOW_GM ( game master ) in his email. This makes it fake as well, since it's well known that stuff like G5 or mutliboxing are allowed in WOW.
Broski if you want to be a douche go send a fucking email yourself. I used the damn contact support form provided the response emails. You're a dumbass.
Maybe this will mean that blizzard will put sc2 on the 360 and sell officially supported blizzard mice and keyboards with it. It'll go perfect with B-net Live, future gold membership accounts, and they'll have party chat for when you buy custom maps like Marine: Fall of Kohal or Reaper: ODST.
On August 24 2010 04:00 SOCOMICEPICK wrote: they said only 3rd party hardware/software is bannable.
In diablo 3 they'll ban you for using ATI's advanced tessellation.
Blizzvision will declare that any non-Nvidia hardware is 3rd party and ban your ass.
/sarcasm.
Either way this goes beyond the stupidity meter for a company, be it Blizzard or any other ever in existence.
Their corporate greed should be dealt with swiftly. Possibly by the mass piracy of their upcoming games or by the active development of battlenet emulators.
On August 24 2010 04:18 tipakee wrote: Maybe next time the user will read the terms and regulations when he installs starcraft instead of just checking the little box and clicking next. Blizzard states in its SC2 policy that use of third party hardware/software that creates and unfair advantage is prohibited.
What a pitiful way of trying to justify their behavior. Any hardware piece that's superior to another can be considered "an unfair advantage" if you take it bluntly.
Superior hardware = more detail & more fps = advantage over others. Ban everyone using a quad core !
On August 24 2010 04:27 Puosu wrote:That would be absolutely retarded and it's not very realistic that Blizzard has created antihack software that specifically targets their "rival" products.
The latest fuss between ATI & Nvidia over AA features in some games should be proof enough that companies never hesitate to rig their products to artificially exclude people who bought from their "opponents".
Ie: The Batman game being officially only supported by Nvid peripherals or the newer tessellation technologies of ATI being software-locked by companies who have a contract with Nvidia.
On August 24 2010 07:24 Merikh wrote: Also wtf is wrong with his/her spelling? lol
Seriously?
first email: macro's --> macros Its --> It's cant --> can't (I know, people drop apostrophes, but he clearly doesn't know how to use them across the board) also, could change "must have to" to "have to"; this one's debatable, and is a matter of style rather than spelling or grammar
second email: your --> you're
Anyway, on topic, thanks for getting the clarification.
While that might be a fake email, ive talked to GM's in games, they use commas and periods but their overall grammar usage isnt that great (and i know mine isnt etiher)
Macro equipment has no place in competitive gaming. It's shady for them to ban w/o warning (unless it's hidden somewhere in ToS that I haven't seen), but it's awesome that they're doing this.
It wouldn't surprise me if they were checking for macros. All they really have to do is really monitor the time between each key press or mouse click. If they are continuously logging times that are ridiculously fast, like less than 10 ms, they pretty much know you are using a macro. It's just physically impossible to be that fast with your hands. For further clarity, someone with 300 APM is doing about 5 actions per second or about one action every 200 milliseconds.
On August 24 2010 08:11 kYem wrote: Hey what about mouse ? if for example i bind mouse button 4 to number 7 ( which will be my OB/nexus/hatchery ) ? Its not macro, just one button, right
Yes, that is correct. You can use the macro functionalities of your marauder, your g15, razer mouse, or whatever, to bind single keystrokes to different buttons. You cannot bind multiple keystrokes to a single button, however.
bliz dose not ban key macros I have used my G110 for some time now and in fact its quite the opposite blizzard encourages and endorses macro hardware, you can clearly see that from wow. Logitech for the win!
On August 24 2010 07:24 Merikh wrote: Also wtf is wrong with his/her spelling? lol
Seriously?
first email: macro's --> macros Its --> It's cant --> can't (I know, people drop apostrophes, but he clearly doesn't know how to use them across the board) also, could change "must have to" to "have to"; this one's debatable, and is a matter of style rather than spelling or grammar
second email: your --> you're
Anyway, on topic, thanks for getting the clarification.
While that might be a fake email, ive talked to GM's in games, they use commas and periods but their overall grammar usage isnt that great (and i know mine isnt etiher)
Oh, yeah, I definitely didn't mean to say that the English mistakes meant it was fake. These guys aren't hired because they can write perfectly!
Blizzard has always been against multi-button macro capability. Back when the SteelSeries WoW mouse came out there was a relatively big deal made about the fact that the capabilities of the official WoW mouse (multi-button press macros) were actually against WoW's ToS. SteelSeries had to add a disclaimer in the software for their mouse that some of the functionality of the mouse could violate WoW Terms of Service so the moral of the story is simple - don't use macros!
Also for people who can't understand why they'd do that, its not so much that in principal using your mouse for some innocuous macro, its that they're worried that if unpoliced it could lead to, lets say, binding one of 5 of the 15+ buttons on some mice to make a 5e, 6e, 7e, etc. to make probes (or w/e) at your different bases. This could lead to a slippery slope of macro abuse to stay competitive. It's not like Blizzard is going to hunt down every single person ever using a macro for anything ever (I can attest in WoW I used macros to streamline some repetitive auction house things without punishment) but they want it to be something everyone is clear is technically illegal.
I do not how much of a threat this ban truly is. I've been using the Logitech G15 (old school v1 baby) keyboard for macro keys since release and I haven't gotten a single warning or ban.
A little BM of mine is when a player is lagging to spam one of my macro keys an infinite number of times, each press macro'd to type the letter "D" 25 times each in just milliseconds. I get a nice wall of text and a lot of hate if their lag ever happens to stop.
On August 24 2010 04:04 mahnini wrote: pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
They don't "endorse" macro keyboards. Their official, well-documented rule is using a macro keyboard is OK, but using it to bypass limitations of a manual user playing the game is not allowed.
In WoW, it's one hardware event = one action. A hardware event is defined as both a key press and a release of the same key. An action is one ability limited by the global cooldown. Basically, if you use a single hardware event macro to chain a series of actions that would normally take a user multiple hardware events it's illegal.
The situation is a little different in SC2 since it doesn't differentiate between key press and release for events (i.e. holding down a key will continually send an event while it's depressed), however the concept is the same; Using a macro to chain multiple separate unit / building queues is completely against the spirit of the game.
I think the immediate ban was a bit of an overreaction, this deserved as least a warning... But the fact that they're preventing play like this is positive for the game.
On August 24 2010 04:04 mahnini wrote: pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
They don't "endorse" macro keyboards.
I don't know jack about WoW, but in the business sense of endorsing, they've certainly endorsed an sc2 keyboard with macros. See the Razer Marauder keyboard that people mentioned earlier in the thread.
I'm in support of making macros a bannable offense. you can literally have macros to do almost anything. it really is a form of cheating imo.
That being said, I'd really like Blizz to WARN people first. I think that a lot of people would be unaware that they are cheating, and having to buy a new game is a bit much.
Just send a warning basically saying what the offense is, and give you a time period (like 3 days?) that you have to change it, or face a ban.
well on blizzards side they did say that any 3rd party software resulted in a ban, and unlike sc1 where you could just create a new account, you cant do that anymore, if it means 1 more button = less maphacks, im for it
I bet they don't ban ppl using the official razer sc2 keyboard which has "On-The-Fly Macro Recording Allows For Effortless Configuration Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus."
Awesome, I'm glad they banned him. Macro should be illegal. However I am unsure whether binding a key to a side mouse button is banable, does anyone know?
I use a razer mouse with 2 side buttons configured to minimap pinging, and to 0,E (spawn probe) Is this bannable? It's not giving me an unfair advantage, and There is an option to insert delays if necessary. All I use it for is pinging and probes.
G15's and the like were bannable in WoW, if you used them to string together several actions like the OP is doing. The keyboard itself is perfectly fine, as is using the macro keys to do a single action . The same applies in SC2 I'd imagine. It sucks that you didn't get a warning, but too bad, that's it.
I think it sucks that you weren't given a warning and that you had to buy a new account, but overall I completely side with Blizzard regardless of if this is fake or not.
On August 24 2010 14:53 atrain117 wrote: Will This affect me?
I use a razer mouse with 2 side buttons configured to minimap pinging, and to 0,E (spawn probe) Is this bannable? It's not giving me an unfair advantage, and There is an option to insert delays if necessary. All I use it for is pinging and probes.
The one about spawning probes I guess your using one click for two actions, i.e. clicking 0, the E. WHICH is NOT allowed.
You should have followed this- one click, one action.
On August 24 2010 04:03 Iggyhopper wrote: Macros are cheap. I support Blizzard's decision but only if they are overbearing and not abusive. Banning his key so he has to spend another $60 is not right. No warning either? For shame.
Why warning? It is common knowledge that macros and third party stuff is not allowed. Any warning would make the penalty too soft and a harsh penalty is the only way to deter people from cheating in a sport.
The one real problem I see is that Blizzard needs to be sure they are not making a mistake themselves. They need their evidence to be 100% foolproof. If they have sufficient proof on cheats just ban the key and thats it.
On August 24 2010 04:04 mahnini wrote: pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
WoW has built in macro-functionality so it's not entirely the same thing. I do think they should warn first tho, since many will probably crossover from WoW to SC2 and are used to macros.
On August 24 2010 15:43 Sinensis wrote: Any particular reason a WoW gm is emailing you about being banned from SC2?
I think someone's a little upset they got cheating, and macros are cheating. Fabricated story because he's mad.
im not saying the dude isn't trolling people we really have no way of knowing....but why would you just make that up out of the blue?....but the emails have nothing to do with him, they are responses that were to people in this thread when they asked....totally unrelated to the guy in the link.
On August 24 2010 04:28 Merikh wrote: So that means I can't bind my "backspace" to my "F1" key ?
Going to make a post on the sc2 forums to verify.
That's not a macro, that's setting your button to a single key.
Blizzard considers a "macro" an "automation".
This means I'll have no problems if I set keys 7-0 to my G-Keys on my g15? wanted to do this for easier access to the last controlgroups because I just have smaller hands than other people...
This means I'll have no problems if I set keys 7-0 to my G-Keys on my g15? wanted to do this for easier access to the last controlgroups because I just have smaller hands than other people...
Yeah you'll be fine.
Don't set them to do something like select your nexus and build probes.
I do not believe that blizzard would ban non-blizzard keyboards with macro support. If you imagine all the problems that microsoft had because using Internet Explorer as default browser in Windows. And that was just default, it was not that we could use ONLY microsoft browser for browsing internet. Companies creating keyboards with macro support could sue blizzard. I might be wrong, but I do not believe blizzard would be so evil. I would believe (and support) if they banned ALL macro keyboard, but banning players without warning is just not right.
Anyone here actually tried the macro capabilities of the new Marauder keyboard? It would be extremely funny to find out that the macros work only in SP once the thing goes out into the market :D
I do not believe that blizzard would ban non-blizzard keyboards with macro support. If you imagine all the problems that microsoft had because using Internet Explorer as default browser in Windows. And that was just default, it was not that we could use ONLY microsoft browser for browsing internet. Companies creating keyboards with macro support could sue blizzard. I might be wrong, but I do not believe blizzard would be so evil. I would believe (and support) if they banned ALL macro keyboard, but banning players without warning is just not right.
Again, they are not banning people with macro keyboards, I have one myself. They are banning people who USE the macro keyboards to cheat ingame. It is clearly, CLEARLY spelled out in multiple places that using macros is cheating, and Warden can tell the difference between you just having a macro-capable keyboard and you actually using the macros.
I really don't know why this is even a discussion, macros give you a cheater's edge that can be every bit as potent as a maphack. No, they should not, and should never, issue warnings to cheaters, they should key-ban them immediately, as long as they have proof that they cheated. Make them spend $60 every time they get caught, that'll thin out the cheaters really quick.
I've seen posts from people claiming that they let a "friend" play, the friend cheated, and they got banned. Even if that's true (and I think it's often a lie), then you:
1) Violated the EULA by sharing your account, so you'll get no sympathy from anyone 2) Apparently weren't paying attention to what your "friend" was doing, and let him install cheat software but more importantly 3) Rather than taking your $60 out of the person responsible, which would be your "friend," you choose to whine that Blizzard is being unfair.
Grow up. If there was a friend and he got you banned, he owes you 60 bucks. Make him pay up or kick him to the curb. It's the equivalent of you letting him borrow your car only to find he scratched the door while he used it.
I do not believe that blizzard would ban non-blizzard keyboards with macro support. If you imagine all the problems that microsoft had because using Internet Explorer as default browser in Windows. And that was just default, it was not that we could use ONLY microsoft browser for browsing internet. Companies creating keyboards with macro support could sue blizzard. I might be wrong, but I do not believe blizzard would be so evil. I would believe (and support) if they banned ALL macro keyboard, but banning players without warning is just not right.
Again, they are not banning people with macro keyboards, I have one myself. They are banning people who USE the macro keyboards to cheat ingame. It is clearly, CLEARLY spelled out in multiple places that using macros is cheating, and Warden can tell the difference between you just having a macro-capable keyboard and you actually using the macros.
So Razer an SteelSeries Keyboards are just BanBaits? They are made especially for Starcraft 2, and they have programable macro keys.
Can you put a source where is said that it is forbidden? Tried to find it, but could not...
well im using a macro to autospawn lava since the beta and did not get banned, the guy is talking bs. I think warden isn't even running and they just ban people getting reported...
Wow players got banned for using g keyboard macros to produce optimal DPS cycles in 2007. Over the years Blizzard has said a billion times binding 1 function to 1 key is okay. Nothing new here.
On August 24 2010 04:17 LaughingTulkas wrote: I hope they keep banning (or wiping accounts) of people who use macros, it's just cheating plain and simple. You want to have better macro, do it yourself!
I agree.
People defending macros are ridiculous. It's cheating. Get over it.
Maybe this guy was clocking an insane 500 APM or something using his macros? I'm pretty sure not only would that be a pretty big advantage on any level of play, it'd also send up a red flag pretty quickly.
On August 24 2010 04:03 Iggyhopper wrote: Macros are cheap. I support Blizzard's decision but only if they are overbearing and not abusive. Banning his key so he has to spend another $60 is not right. No warning either? For shame.
Why warning? It is common knowledge that macros and third party stuff is not allowed.
On August 24 2010 04:04 mahnini wrote: pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
I've seen a few 'SC2 keyboards' that have macros. Strange that they would ban because of that :O I don't think the top players will use it anyway.
So now blizz should ban people who uses panoramic monitors cause they see more of the filed over 4:3 users, also having stronger PC than opponent gives smoother gameplay - another big adventage, and dont forget about gaming gear from Razer/Logitech etc. now you got tons of people to ban blizz GJ.
I have a hard time believing Blizzard would purposefully sell a license to Razer to build a "Starcraft II Gaming Keyboard" that facilitates cheating. The third bullet point is "On-The-Fly Macro Recording allows for Effortless Configuration". Either
1) This is a very bad case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing
or
2) Hardware-level keyboard macros will not get you banned in sc2 and this dude is lying
Only if they want to get sued by Logitech, Microsoft, and whoever else. Activision Blizzard might be big, but I doubt they want to piss of Microsoft's legal department.
I have a hard time believing Blizzard would purposefully sell a license to Razer to build a "Starcraft II Gaming Keyboard" that facilitates cheating. The third bullet point is "On-The-Fly Macro Recording allows for Effortless Configuration". Either
1) This is a very bad case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing
or
2) Hardware-level keyboard macros will not get you banned in sc2 and this dude is lying
This happened with the Steelseries WoW mouse.
Yes, it can do Macros.
No, you are not allowed to use them for more than one action(One click one action).
It wouldn't matter if you used theirs, or some random third party one.
On August 25 2010 00:24 Seam wrote: This happened with the Steelseries WoW mouse.
Yes, it can do Macros.
No, you are not allowed to use them for more than one action(One click one action).
It wouldn't matter if you used theirs, or some random third party one.
Yeah, there was a big huff about this in WoW a while back. Basically any sort of hardware level macro would get you banned. In-game macros were fine as the API limited what was possible.
On August 25 2010 00:29 Hawk wrote: What the hell does the fact that there's a blizz macro keyboard for WoW have ANYTHING to do with starcraft??
Because SC2 also has one http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.php and Blizzard obviously doesn't care if your keyboard has Macro abilities as long as you don't use them in their game. Else they wouldn't license them now would they ?
On August 25 2010 00:34 Nyxs wrote: Because SC2 also has one http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.php and Blizzard obviously doesn't care if your keyboard has Macro abilities as long as you don't use them in their game. Else they wouldn't license them now would they ?
They probably just handed out the license to razer and told them to do what they pleased with it. If you think that blizzard staff designed any of these products I don't know what to say.
On August 25 2010 00:34 Nyxs wrote: Because SC2 also has one http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.php and Blizzard obviously doesn't care if your keyboard has Macro abilities as long as you don't use them in their game. Else they wouldn't license them now would they ?
They probably just handed out the license to razer and told them to do what they pleased with it. If you think that blizzard staff designed any of these products I don't know what to say.
Luckily, nobody here has even suggested that they think blizzard designed these products. You still might not know what to say, though.
they should warn you and suspend your account the standard 3 days then ban the next time it happens. i don't believe this post it seems like a hardcore troll. blizzard is known to ban in waves they rarely ban single people at a time.
the other thing is if you set up your macros properly with "human" time in between clicks i don't understand how blizzard would be able to detect it in the first place. there were a lot of threads about that subject.
the use of macros is obviously cheating because it gives you a huge advantage and if its true that blizzard is supporting a keyboard with a macro feature on it by razer then they are the biggest fucking morons ever because they are contradicting what they said.
oh damn... thats crazy i have a gamepad that i use to macro things to but stuff like music and all so i dont have to minimize and create lag and loading time but damn... i kinda dont like what blizzard did here :T
I use a macro that hits CTRL+F1 = select all idle workers because it's far too stressing for my hand to hit CTRL+F1 on my keyboard manually.
I did not know there actually was (mentally impaired) people around that would consider this as 'cheating'. HAH! Good thing I don't give two shits. I'll continue using my macros and key re-mappings via script as I please.
On August 25 2010 02:29 SilentGem wrote: I use a macro that hits CTRL+F1 = select all idle workers because it's far too stressing for my hand to hit CTRL+F1 on my keyboard manually.
I did not know there actually was (mentally impaired) people around that would consider this as 'cheating'. HAH! Good thing I don't give two shits. I'll continue using my macros and key re-mappings via script as I please.
This is not cheating according to the current policy. One keystroke = one action.
Wish someone would put that in the OP or something... =/
I completely agree with Blizzard's stance on no-macros as it's an unfair advantage.
However, I think completely banning you with no warning and forcing you to buy another CD-key i sa bit much imo. They should've just warned you, gave you time to comply, and if you refused, wiped ur ladder stats. Then if you continued to use macros, then erase your key/ban you. There needs to be a process not an insta-ban imo.
Ban everybody who does anything stupid. I'm on board with it. I hate anytime people plead ignorance on a subject. It's the same people in WoW who abuse a bug to obtain something then act surprised when their shit is taken away or account is banned. These are the same people who make stupid names that can be reported then complain because their name of Analbag has to be changed.
Rule #1: Don't do stupid shit that could bite you in the ass. Rule #2: Repeat rule #1 until you don't forget it.
On August 24 2010 04:04 mahnini wrote: pretty awesome if that's true. kind of doubt blizzard would ban macros without warning though seeing as how they endorse macro keyboards for WoW and such.
You're actually completely prohibited from using the kind of macros many people are doing. Many people have had their WoW accounts banned for attempting it and that dates back years.
On August 25 2010 03:07 pikezeppelin wrote: Can someone make a list of gaming keyboards/mouses with no macro support? Whitelist or something
Ofc you could buy non gaming gear, but these don't have as good response/precision as gaming ones.
Merits of gaming gear aside, any keyboard or mouse with macro support is fine to use with sc2. Just don't use the functionality of your hardware/software to break the 1 keystroke = 1 action rule.
Besides, macro functionality is considered common place in gaming peripherals (and medium-to-high end computing input devices in general) so you'll be hard pressed to find a mainstream "gaming" input device that doesn't support macros either in hardware or software.
(There are exceptions to this, of course, notably the steelseries 7g/6gv2 and other mechanical keyboards sold by elitekeyboards, deck, das, etc., but don't let macro functionality keep you from buying a product.)
I am pretty sure they way blizz detect macros is when they detect a keystroke from you and see that 2 actions are going on with millisecond delay. Even the highest apms have milliseconds between hitting their macro button and their units. When blizz sees a game where someones gateways and zealots are being built with near 0 delay between keystroke they get suspicious.
So if you are using "fishy" hardware, i'm sure you have nothing to worry about.
On August 25 2010 02:04 -zoom- wrote: You deserve a punishment put a ban is by far too harsh. Maybe a suspension for like a day with a warning would be fine but that it a bit over the top.
For cheating? Are you kidding me?
Cheating should result in a permanent ban the instant it's found out. Nobody cheats without knowing what they're doing is detrimental to the game, and that it's a complete dick move overall. You always know it's an unfair advantage.
On August 26 2010 22:44 wacksteven wrote: I wonder, does this apply to mapping a key to one of your mouse buttons, too? I have alt mapped to my thumb button on my mouse to see health bars. O_o
according to the pic in the op: no
as long as you press 1 button and get 1 action it should be fine, at least i hope so, binded the key next to the "1"-key to backspace (Town Camera) today ...
Blizzard should at least warn before they ban (concerning macros), I mean it's not a hard decision to make: keep using macros or getting your account banned. Though it is cheating it isn't cheating in the same kinda way like map hacking.
How about a macro that 1) turns your keyboard green when the inject larvae is on cooldown, 2) blinks your keyboard different colors when it is about to be up, and 3) turns you keyboard red when the coolodwn is available. Would that be permissible?
Okay, this thread was linked from the EU forums on starcraft2.com. I was also wondering about macros does and don'ts in Sc2 so I asked the tech support about the razer and steelseries keyboards/mouses (please note: not the keyboard mentioned by OP) and I thought other people in this thread could benefit from the answer I received so here it goes.
(Please note: I did this research for the sake of the debate, I do not use macros myself.)
Even if it doesn't the mention the keyboard of the OP I still hope this information could be useful, just passing it along.
As long as it puts money in blizzards pocket, huh?
On August 24 2010 04:15 Moa wrote: I don't support the ban but a warning is a good idea. I do doubt thus is true because of the Marauder keyboard's existence.
How does that make any sense?...
YOU CAN HAVE 1 BUTTON DO 1 THING not 1 button do 5 things. That's how it makes sense.
I'm so happy they are banning these cheaters. It's about time.
On-The-Fly Macro Recording allows for Effortless Configuration Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus
A keyboard designed specifically for SC2 can get you banned?
It can't if you record more then 1 action per 1 button... If you record 5 actions to 1 button then yes. it will get a cheater banned.
I hate auto-macro users just as much as the next guy, but you had to buy another account? No warning? Finding that hard to believe, but my condolences if that's true.
Using macro keyboards constitutes cheating in my mind and I agree with the bans. a warning to the user may be more appropriate in the case of macros but I remain pleased with either option.
And OP, you really need a lesson in capitalization. Capital letters belong at the beginning of sentences, not in long streaks of capitalized words.
On August 24 2010 04:07 RoyalCheese wrote: Hmm i have been using logitech g15 since the beta and was not banned. I don't use any macros for starcraft 2, though. Still the story god me kinda worried, since as far as i know blizzard has rights to ban any account anytime they want. Perheps what they do is they check repeating fast squences of "keystrokes" rather then type of your keyboard(if thats even possible) and one is safe as long as he is not using them macros
i can make 50 clicks with my mouse on a sec with a macro and with my own finger i can only do 4 or 5 so i bet they can see it
On October 12 2010 21:45 DarQraven wrote: So how's this? I've been using the G15's macro keys to simplify the game-start "GLHF"-s, "You too" business since early beta.
You're telling me I can get banned for 'cheating ingame conversations'?
Yeah and you shouldn't be allow to use macro for anything, even for common chat message.
Thumbs us for Blizz. Keyboard macros are pretty pretty lame imo. Like most others posters said though, a warning would be more appropriate than straight banning.
On October 12 2010 21:45 DarQraven wrote: So how's this? I've been using the G15's macro keys to simplify the game-start "GLHF"-s, "You too" business since early beta.
You're telling me I can get banned for 'cheating ingame conversations'?
Yeah and you shouldn't be allow to use macro for anything, even for common chat message.
I agree. Manners consume time, so basically if u use a macro to show your manner, its the same as if you were using them for production.
And typing gl&hf at the beginning of a match is not really too time-consumeing...
So it's not bad if I use my mouse buttons for "9" and "0" keys so I can just use them for my other hatches, right? It's not like I'm doing a ton of actions, just 1 number.
people have been banned for this already, its not new.
macros are cheating, and people must be banned for it. altho i guess not everyone reads these forums etc, blizz really needs to make some kind of official announcement about whats allowed.
aye.. keyboard macros are pretty imba if you know how to do it..
its no problem at all to make a macro that select a command group (all queen group), shift through all the hatcheries.. also making a V stroke and a mouse click every time.. this would require you to center your mouse about center on screen and push the button.. and wam bam! you got all your hatches larvaed in 0.5 sec
its even possible to make it so you push the button and it will run that macro every X second until you push the button again.. just add a reminder to center the mouse if you wish.. grats you have perfect marcro with no effort. drawback would be that you can get a nasty surprise in the middle of a micro battle though
I bought a G-15 keyboard for WOW, I don't think the macro setup should be used for SC2. I could make a macro that selects my hatchery with a control group, then select drone and then have it make a unit all in one button. That is too much. 3 actions in 1 button click is cheating. 2 Actions ins 1 button click is cheating as well.
Whether or not it should be illegal I won't say, but it's really stupid that they sell a keyboard specifically designed for SC2 that has macro capabilities and then ban people for using it without any warning
On October 12 2010 23:47 Subversion wrote: people have been banned for this already, its not new.
macros are cheating, and people must be banned for it. altho i guess not everyone reads these forums etc, blizz really needs to make some kind of official announcement about whats allowed.
Yes, people should be required to read the announcement/rules and scroll to the bottom. At least then, you wouldn't have an excuse.
Another thing Blizzard should do is give a warning like "we detected you using macros. to prevent cheating these aren't allowed in ANY interface of starcraft 2 or battlenet 2.0. If you are caught againt your account will be temp-banned, and a third offense will be perma-banned."
doing ANYTHING that makes the game easier is cheating adn you deserve what happened to you. Just ask your self, "if this was an olympic sport, would X be allowed". If your answere is NO then its a bannable offence.
Somehow I doubt that Blizzard is able to tell the difference between macros created by licensed blizzard products vs. 3rd party hardware with macro capability. If blizzard detects the use of a macro, how can they tell if the macro is from a licensed product or 3rd party hardware? Curious...
Sounds good to me. You have to realize that Blizzard either needs to ban ALL 3rd party or go into extensive debates with every person about his/her 3rd party stuff of choice. Debating with everyone who chooses to go 3rd party stuff is definitely a waste of time and resources for Blizzard. Follow the Eula, play legit and you'll be fine.
Any chance they could be mass banning for this? I used to use macro's on my keyboard when i was new to the game to basically build all my stuff but stopped using them a couple of weeks ago (not because i figured they were cheating lol, but actually because they became a hinderance). This has got me worried now.
I've use my G11 special keys and other like 7-8-9-0 just because they are closer for my hand. So no macro for doing multiple keys and what not. But i guess i'll stop...
I don't mind banning for stuff like this or that ban for people hacking single players. But i really wish Blizzard made it clear to every of what can ban you. Because i wouldn't have guess that macro keyboard and hacking the single player would get your account banned.
The fact is, macros are a grey area, period. No Blizzard representative has ever come out and clearly delineated what is and isn't a legal macro for SC2, only going so far as saying "well, you could be banned for using macros" to help curb the proliferation of intricate macro usage that mirrors botting behaviour.
When Blizzard stamps their name and the logo of Starcraft II on a keyboard that promotes macros, a keyboard that even labels specific keys for race-specific macros, that only muddies the macro waters further.
I suspect that Blizzard keeps mum about what they'll specifically ban people for because they want to limit the number of legal suits against them, and by keeping the waters muddied most people will steer clear of what is otherwise perfectly legal.
I would think their efforts are spent mostly on the hacks that most threaten battle.net's credibility, these being cheats that grant you vision, make units build faster, etc. A utility by Logitech/Razer/Microsoft/Steelseries that lets you record a sequence of keystrokes so one keystroke == add selected units to a control group, doubtful.
However, Blizzard hasn't stated decisively one way or the other on it, have they? But when you have Razer plastering their logo alongside Blizzard's at events like GSL, I doubt using products that Blizzard has blessed, implicitly or otherwise, will get you banned.
TL:DR - Blizzard is calling our bluff, betting that not enough rich kids have parent litigious enough to cost them more than they are making off branding macro-friendly game peripherals. Use common sense and limit your macros to duplicating several keys at most unless you are gunning for a legal showdown with Blizzard/Activision. If so, do up a macro that does the first 4 minutes of your build order lol.
If you press 1 key, it needs to only issue 1 key worth of action. Anything more than that is downright cheating. Blizzard endorsed keyboards that let you bind certain keys to other buttons is not the same thing as sets of commands.
On October 16 2010 10:47 Mohdoo wrote: If you press 1 key, it needs to only issue 1 key worth of action. Anything more than that is downright cheating. Blizzard endorsed keyboards that let you bind certain keys to other buttons is not the same thing as sets of commands.
If there's a quote saying that in any TERMS OF AGREEMENT for said product, then legally yes you are right. Otherwise failure to disclose any limitations of use of product is liable to litigation.
So basically if Blizzard puts it's name on a keyboard that allows you to assign 20000 actions to a single keypress, but doesn't say doing something retarded like this will ban you from battle.net, they expose themselves to a legal liability.
That's all I'm saying. Blizzard seems inclined to make $$$ off putting their name on product, while remaining purposefully obtuse about what exactly constitutes cheating. The common reference on these forums is "a 1:1 key rebind is ok" as you mentioned, but no one ever quotes a definitive Blizzard source saying so, as you also failed to do.
The battle.net EULA states the following:
Additional License Limitations. The license granted to you in Section 1 is subject to the limitations set forth in Sections 1 and 2 (collectively, the "License Limitations"). Any use of the Service or any Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard's copyrights in and to the Service and/or Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:
[a] 1. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Service, any Game or any Game experience;[/b]
Where does rebinding X number of keys to just one key fit in the above limitation? What exactly is "automation"? What are the authorized 3rd-party software? See? We're all just guessing here.
Basically, enjoy the freaking game. If you want to use a G110, Blackwidow, Naga, G500, et al, to make your life in SC2 a little easier, go for it. Blizzard very likely considers you not worth their trouble.
If you want to use a G110, Blackwidow, Naga or G500 to automate a build order, spam garbage to your opponent to distract him, etc, then yeah you're probably gunning for a ban.
In either case Blizzard doesn't consider you a likely cause to increase their legal expense. More probable are Chinese counterfeiters pimping Blizzard/SC2 logos.
People with no idea what a macro is should not post like they do.
A macro is simply a command. You can activate the command by binding the macro to a key. The command can be an instruction, so when it's activated, several other actions are carried out. The command can also be a single action. When it's a single action, it can also be called simply a key bind or just bind, but it is less commonly used because it is very informal.
So there are two macros, multiple action, and single action. Stop treating it like macros only allow multiple actions.
Blizzard has stated its rule. 1 key = 1 action. It was in their F.A.Q. about macros that I cannot find. Macros do not break this rule, unless you think macros simply mean multiple actions.
Players set up macros to do multiple things at once. They can easily set up a macro to do one thing. It would be useless however.
Bottom line. Macros do NOT ALWAYS perform multiple actions. They can perform a single action, which is what I believe Blizzard endorses.
This supports my claim, but is not the one I mentioned
*Note: Any macro used to automate game play is strictly prohibited.
On October 16 2010 11:06 .Aar wrote: Wait, so if you use their keyboard and do the exact same thing you won't get banned? Are you sure that's what they meant?
I never implied such a thing. If you use "their" keyboard, I would imagine you're just as likely to get hit with the banstick as with any other keyboard that supports macros.
The overall point is: "BLIZZARD IS PURPOSEFULLY VAGUE" about what constitutes a ban, because any attempt to delineate what is and isn't ban-worthy would expose Blizzard/Activision to legal action from parties that would purport not to have contravened whatever line Blizzard chose to draw in the sand. So, sensibly, Blizzard chooses to draw no such line.
He deserves the ban, although I do think Blizzard should've warned first. After being drophacked several times today, I have zero sympathy for cheaters -.-; Yes I'm butthurt.
guys just read the OP's email that he got, it says nothing about just 3rd party macoring, just macroing period.
"Using macro's can get you banned. Its not illegal to use the keyboard. However it is illegal to basically bot anything. You must have to push the key yourself. You cant map out 5 actions to one button. You can be banned for that"
so even if you macro on their keyboard you'll get banned because " you cant map out 5 actions to one button " PERIOD..... so their not just trying to get you to buy their keyboard to macro, they don't care if you use their keyboard or not. so stop with that activision type bullshit, BLIZZ IS IN THE RIGHT...here
If you look at the OPS post he doesn't have a link to that claim by saying its supported by blizzards keyboard. so basically if you look at it, all hes trying to do is start up a rukkis because he got banned for macroing.
"i was banned for using macros on my XYZ" has been the excuse of botters since bots existed. he probably does own a g15 or whatever, and he thinks to himself (like everyone does that gets caught) how would blizzard know the difference between if i bot and if i just use lots of macros? they can't possibly know unless they are right next to me.
fortunately, game companies are not full of naive retards as we are sometimes led to believe. they have systems that catch the botters, cheaters and hackers. they have all the data and all the evidence they will ever need.
On October 16 2010 11:06 .Aar wrote: Wait, so if you use their keyboard and do the exact same thing you won't get banned? Are you sure that's what they meant?
I never implied such a thing. If you use "their" keyboard, I would imagine you're just as likely to get hit with the banstick as with any other keyboard that supports macros.
The overall point is: "BLIZZARD IS PURPOSEFULLY VAGUE" about what constitutes a ban, because any attempt to delineate what is and isn't ban-worthy would expose Blizzard/Activision to legal action from parties that would purport not to have contravened whatever line Blizzard chose to draw in the sand. So, sensibly, Blizzard chooses to draw no such line.
They have stated multiple times that macroing a key to do several actions is bannable(they call it botting). I fail to see where your getting this vagueness from.
I also dont really understand the argument that since they support a macroable keyboard that all macros should be allowed. Im pretty sure there is not a single new gaming keyboard on the market that doesnt have macros. Are people really suggesting they should make their own keyboard that isnt macroable and screws you out of its use for other products?
Absolutely no warning. Absolutely shameful. Very strongly against how blizzard is handling this, especially since it isn't very clearly outlined what will get you banned as far as hardware goes.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9687/macros.png)
That would be quite a few people.
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![[image loading]](http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u134/Ryomalol/Random%20Stuff/trollface.png)
![[image loading]](http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7158/macros2.png)
![[image loading]](http://i36.tinypic.com/mt7dzb.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/T1K3O.jpg)
