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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
 dApollo - chillax. i think you are trying too hard to be animated and its coming across awkwardly. - You are talking all over day9 during battles and its making the stream audio explode. Day[9] Talking too much and creating this situation where dapollo has to force his way in. I think you'll probably find a groove once you cast more together, but those are just my immediate thoughts from the first two sets. I love you both. gl | ||
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Rampager
Australia1007 Posts
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kar1181
United Kingdom515 Posts
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
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DarkSanta
Netherlands76 Posts
Ambigious?:O | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
Maybe they could work on their division of labor? | ||
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dson
Switzerland7 Posts
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thezergk
United States492 Posts
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Node
United States2159 Posts
They're definitely improving as time goes on, and by the time the tournament climaxes I think these two will be a force to be reckoned with. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
I think you guys are doing pretty well though, besides the nerves. More than anything, the technical people need to get their shit together and stop the lag. 3 EUROS!!! | ||
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ZaaaaaM
Netherlands1828 Posts
Of course, day9 is the most BA one :>On August 18 2010 23:58 dson wrote: Cast was good, but I turned of the stream after 5 minutes, the quality is just BS! Man, I would even watch it if was a 4x3 resolution, too awesome to miss :D | ||
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Gaxton
Sweden2328 Posts
Just seen him theorycrafting in Artosis videos. He performed better than expected, tho he kinda had to force his way into the conversation as mentioned above. | ||
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Necrosjef
United Kingdom530 Posts
Apollo is just repeating what Day9 is saying and then saying what he is seeing. | ||
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Mairu
United States222 Posts
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UbiNax
Denmark381 Posts
and ofc day9 was awesome as always Awesome commentating considering they havent casted together before | ||
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thesighter
United States347 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
Also he needs to learn to sit still | ||
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Mios
United States686 Posts
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Lighioana
Norway466 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
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Mavkar
Germany592 Posts
On August 19 2010 00:46 Kennigit wrote: Dont know if they read this, but cast was much better last game. Yeah, looks like they figured out their flow. Much better now. Will be getting even smoother the next days. | ||
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Node
United States2159 Posts
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chuky500
France473 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Mavkar
Germany592 Posts
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 19 2010 01:05 chuky500 wrote: Why does the interviewer start speaking german sometimes. Do the whole show in german if you want to speak german. The interviews are in English because it's the common language between the players. The rest is in German because it's a German event. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On August 19 2010 01:35 Boblion wrote: Please don't talk about "banshee micro" it makes me cringe. so far the best banshee micro displayed is putting them on hold position so they cant fly into turrets | ||
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f0rk
England172 Posts
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On August 19 2010 01:45 floor exercise wrote: so far the best banshee micro displayed is putting them on hold position so they cant fly into turrets well it's really hard as seen in Tarson-Morrow first game | ||
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Trollment
53 Posts
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
Day[9] needs to dial it back a bit howevever also. Say one thing, then let Apollo say something instead of continuously casting. I think he was soo used to casting games by himself that he forgot to leave openings for Apollo to speak, which resulted in Apollo being forced to just cut him off. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
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QuXn
Germany71 Posts
i have nothing to say about apollos performance. i guess he was doing fine for his first time. but he seemed kinda lost at some points and missing some of the action. | ||
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fishyjoes
Germany644 Posts
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AyJay
1515 Posts
Caster feedback: * I'm glad this isn't casted by husky/hd or god forbid BigT | ||
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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Tuneful
United States327 Posts
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Necrosjef
United Kingdom530 Posts
On August 19 2010 02:46 AyJay wrote: its Sean not Shaun dam it Caster feedback: * I'm glad this isn't casted by husky/hd or god forbid BigT I quite like BigT. Not as much as Day9 but he is certainly more proficient than Apollo. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On August 19 2010 02:04 QuXn wrote: i have to say btw, that day9 is doing a better job casting online instead of him beeing live at the event. Tastless brings more exitement across imo, so he is the "better" caster for a live audience. i have nothing to say about apollos performance. i guess he was doing fine for his first time. but he seemed kinda lost at some points and missing some of the action. Tasteless has been live casting for far, FAR longer. To see such improvement in Sean over the course of the day in his live casting was awesome. You are correct in saying Tasteless brings more excitement, but I think they will be on equal footing if this current trend continues and Sean does more live casts. | ||
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bmml
United Kingdom962 Posts
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check mate
Germany39 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:10 Necrosjef wrote: I quite like BigT. Not as much as Day9 but he is certainly more proficient than Apollo. You're such a joker... my friend who knows NOTHING about starcraft heard BigT casting when I watched the ESL event two days ago and said whoever was talking sounded like an annoying douchebag... so he pretty much hit the nail on the head. | ||
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Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
 I'd like to have 1 second of silence or a slow and calm talk during the early game where little happens. If there's action you can go all over the place but to make these moments even more awesome you shouldn't be hyped so much all the time before. | ||
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Obstbaum
Switzerland224 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:15 check mate wrote: I think Day9 should not say "aha" so often... it sounds like a bit monotone and bored and to me it's kinda bm... but again it may be just me Oo anyways I think they did a good job all in one :D i dont think its bm but your absolutely right. Casters should only "agree" when they`re taking over. But overall they`re doing a great job. | ||
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:15 itzbrandnew wrote: You're such a joker... my friend who knows NOTHING about starcraft heard BigT casting when I watched the ESL event two days ago and said whoever was talking sounded like an annoying douchebag... so he pretty much hit the nail on the head. Hahaha oh goodness. On topic, I joined in during the TLO MadFrog series and you guys sounded fine. Nice work! | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:15 check mate wrote: I think Day9 should not say "aha" so often... it sounds like a bit monotone and bored and to me it's kinda bm... but again it may be just me Oo anyways I think they did a good job all in one :D Yeah I thought the same. I don't know if that's just different in English but in German this "aha" would be something like "yeah whatever". | ||
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oursblanc
Canada1450 Posts
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On August 19 2010 02:46 AyJay wrote: its Sean not Shaun dam it One of them is Sean. One of them is Shaun. dam it | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:15 check mate wrote: I think Day9 should not say "aha" so often... it sounds like a bit monotone and bored and to me it's kinda bm... but again it may be just me Oo anyways I think they did a good job all in one :D I noticed this as well. It seemed like anytime Appolo talked Day9 was just waiting for him to shut up ;P | ||
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:15 check mate wrote: I think Day9 should not say "aha" so often... it sounds like a bit monotone and bored and to me it's kinda bm... but again it may be just me Oo anyways I think they did a good job all in one :D This is an interesting point. Of course he doesn't mean it that way, but it's good to be aware of the different ways idioms/idiosyncrasies can be interpreted in different cultures. It's kind of like answering "uh huh" or sure" to "thank you": common and not at all rude in (parts of?) the US, but off-putting to some people in/from other countries. | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
Tho they did very good. Alot better than those two clowns commenting on the Quake Live game av3k vs calipt. They basically masturbated over anything av3k did, followed him 90% of the match and gave calipt about 1 minute all together on the cast. It was a total embarrassment. | ||
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teko
Canada1197 Posts
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Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
He's informative and everything he says is relevant and has a point but he just needs to relax a bit more because it's actually bad to be too enthusiastic. If he tries to be more laid-back, I think he could be one of the best casters. | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
Or is it because its not open to the nornmal audience already? | ||
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Babbon
Netherlands15 Posts
On August 19 2010 04:52 CruelZeratul wrote: I'm curious why I don'h hear any crowd on the VOD's doing applause or anything like that.Is there actually none (or at least a very small audience), or do they just don't give a proper applause. Some pics would be nice. Or is it because its not open to the nornmal audience already? Today was only for press, it'll be open for public tomorrow I believe | ||
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Tuneful
United States327 Posts
On August 19 2010 05:00 Babbon wrote: Today was only for press, it'll be open for public tomorrow I believe Confirming this to be true. | ||
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Necrosjef
United Kingdom530 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:15 itzbrandnew wrote: You're such a joker... my friend who knows NOTHING about starcraft heard BigT casting when I watched the ESL event two days ago and said whoever was talking sounded like an annoying douchebag... so he pretty much hit the nail on the head. I don't see why people rag on BigT so much, he is perfectly fine. BigT might sound like a douche but then again Apollo is infact a douche which makes him automatically sound like a douche. | ||
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
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Alphaes
United States651 Posts
On August 19 2010 05:12 Necrosjef wrote: I don't see why people rag on BigT so much, he is perfectly fine. BigT might sound like a douche but then again Apollo is infact a douche which makes him automatically sound like a douche. Yeah, "perfectly fine"... if you can pretend all that trouble he caused in the last few tournaments was all just innocent, "facetious" fun on his part. I don't know Apollo well enough to comment on whether or not he actually is a douche in real-life, but at least he has some sense of professionalism as a caster and doesn't fuck up every other tournament he casts in. | ||
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ProFail
Korea (North)81 Posts
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
lmao at german awkward english | ||
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ROOTdrewbie
Canada1392 Posts
day9 was amazing as always 8) I felt like Apollo kept interrupting day9 T_T | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On August 19 2010 00:08 Necrosjef wrote: Day9 got some insight into what is going on. Apollo is just repeating what Day9 is saying and then saying what he is seeing. Oh god... | ||
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No-Killer-Instinct
England197 Posts
On August 19 2010 02:46 AyJay wrote: its Sean not Shaun dam it Sean "Day[9]" Plott and Shaun "d.Apollo" Clark. I was pleasantly surprised by d.Apollo who did a lot better that I thought he would and improved throughout the day. I agree with the earlier comments that they tended to talk over each other, but that too get better as they got used to working with each other. I think both of them were full of nervous energy and adrenaline to start with and, it seemed that they were asked to waffle/fill in until the broadcasters were ready to go, which resulted in a pretty garbled into section and a lot of Day[9] theorycraft Once the games were under way, they seemed to get into a better groove and the last match I caught was excellent. Whoever is controlling the camera is doing a damn good job too, they seem to have caught all the important action - although there were a couple of near misses I've just googled d.Apollo and it seems that he's been out to Korea a few times in the past 12 months hanging out with Tastless, Artoisis and others. His blog on the Dignitas site credits Tasteless with re-igniting his interest in RTS games as he was burnt out after working hard to win a few C&C tournaments back in 2007/2008. It appears that Tasteless has been working with him on his casting too. | ||
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arctics86
Germany797 Posts
Just for the record, not all germans speak like carni and take, but they are extra great in german, so it's all good. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On August 19 2010 04:30 Fantistic wrote: Apollo comes across as trying too hard. He's informative and everything he says is relevant and has a point but he just needs to relax a bit more because it's actually bad to be too enthusiastic. If he tries to be more laid-back, I think he could be one of the best casters. It's never bad to be enthusiastic. Unless you think this is golf or tennis commentating. Or those awful english commentators for the world cup. Unlike those spanish commentators who get excited over everything. You're right, you can be too enthusiastic.  | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
please substitute this annoying intro with beyond the game | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
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Mellotron
United States329 Posts
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Doraemon.doraemon
United States335 Posts
i think it'd be ideal for day9 to talk 70% of the time and d_apollo the rest 30%... just my personal opinion... but anything with day9 > any other combo! | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:49 Sqq wrote: Felt like Day9 was talking a bit down to Apollo at times, like "uhu" "yeeeeah" "uhm" "ya". Tho they did very good. Alot better than those two clowns commenting on the Quake Live game av3k vs calipt. They basically masturbated over anything av3k did, followed him 90% of the match and gave calipt about 1 minute all together on the cast. It was a total embarrassment. Lol he actually does that everytime he has a cocaster, no matter who it is. | ||
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On August 19 2010 18:56 Doraemon.doraemon wrote: they don't really have to do a 50/50 split of talking time... kinda like in nba there is a play by play guy and there is a color guy... the color guy chips in once in awhile... i think it'd be ideal for day9 to talk 70% of the time and d_apollo the rest 30%... just my personal opinion... but anything with day9 > any other combo! actually that is ideal by industry standard. As it is, day is a color commentator while dApollo is a play by play. | ||
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chocopan
Japan986 Posts
They're doing great, hang in there boiz! | ||
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theSAiNT
United States726 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
On August 20 2010 00:13 floor exercise wrote: I think it's just as bad as yesterday. Day is a chatterbox, it's just what he is, he's great on his own but any cocaster is going to have to let him run the show, that's why he worked well with JP, because JP was passive and content to just get in a line or two wherever he could. Apollo is trying to cast like they are playing equal roles. There's nothing wrong with that, but Day is just not accustomed/good at it. The result is bad caster synergy. Can't blame anyone, they just don't work well together this sums it up pretty well. apollo is doing fine when he's talking except minor mistakes, but both of them are trying to be the main caster. | ||
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Boonesbane
United States170 Posts
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
On August 20 2010 00:23 FortuneSyn wrote: this sums it up pretty well. apollo is doing fine when he's talking except minor mistakes, but both of them are trying to be the main caster. agree it might work better if they were paired with different people, together its a bit of a mess and often they will cheer and talk over one another which makes it hard to enjoy the flow of the game. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
I think it's just as bad as yesterday. on some point I thought it was even worse...maybe because the games are better and both are therefore more excited (if this is even humanly possible) one of them HAS to tune it down, otherwise the finals will be a pain | ||
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Stuv
Netherlands942 Posts
On August 20 2010 00:27 Boonesbane wrote: As with most people around here, I find day[9] to be a god among men when it comes to commentating, so this commentating is working out pretty well for me. For someone who seems relatively new to commentating, certainly on this big of a scale, dApollo seems to be doing pretty well. Big +1. Day9 is God. I love seeing him in a foreign country going wild and creating a good atmosphere in the big area. "Aint no thing." | ||
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sammler
United Kingdom381 Posts
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Donner
Germany91 Posts
it sounds like he is marking apollo | ||
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Necrosjef
United Kingdom530 Posts
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eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
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Full
United Kingdom253 Posts
apollo was butting in a lot, looking awkward and messing up. Probably nervous. second day he was much much better and much easier to listen to. Day9 was just in general pretty good on both days, trying to get the crowd involved and stuff. Overall, day1 pretty average. Day 2 more good than bad :D I'll put it this way, i much prefer to see d9 and apollo there over HD and Husky. | ||
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sNes.
United States377 Posts
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Mylin
Sweden177 Posts
Apollo is sort of just in the way. | ||
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Felby
Norway81 Posts
you can really feel that day9 is more used to casting alone and that he loves to talk but please, try to say less OH MY GOD and talk over eachother | ||
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duck.fit
United States241 Posts
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CheeseGrater
United States290 Posts
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diejule
Germany416 Posts
Thank you dApollo and Day9! | ||
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mrkent
United States160 Posts
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NukeTheBunnys
United States1004 Posts
keep it up. I only wish ESL had better VODs so I could catch the games I missed | ||
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Loki_rAtM
Germany17 Posts
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tertle
Australia328 Posts
It's perfectly fine to speculate on what build someone is doing etc, but I don't think you should be commenting on how you dislike a build or a way a player is playing in a professional event. | ||
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mrkent
United States160 Posts
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Gravebait
United States13 Posts
On August 20 2010 11:18 mrkent wrote: And is the german guy doing the interviews like the worst or what? I feel like he just keep offending losers on their play. haha "Well I'm really sorry but (winner) played really great - tell me how you feel about losing." As far as casting though, Day and Apollo are doing great but one thing that is pretty consistent and irritating is the amount of talking over each other whenever a battle is taking place. I'm enjoying the entire show very much regardless. | ||
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
Very high standard of commentary from both Day9 and Apollo, except when they're talking over each other. | ||
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esperanto
Germany357 Posts
Really good job apollo and Day9. Thanks for the nice show. Edit: The german guy just doesnt know the english language, so most of what he says sounds offensive. | ||
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
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3dNorton
United States29 Posts
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Calmwinds
57 Posts
German interviewer just doesn't know English well, I mean he means well, and you can tell he does, he seems like a pretty nice guy overall, and people bashing him are just misinterpreting the way he is coming off, I'm pretty sure he doesn't know much about starcraft in general, but knows that terran imbalance is quite the talk, so he's trying to get the progamer feedback on it. Cut the guy some slack, sheesh. | ||
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3dNorton
United States29 Posts
But to be honest, Day is coming off as condescending in many of the games because he ignores whatever D'appolo says when it comes to opinionated insight. | ||
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Jocoma
Denmark100 Posts
They're doing awesome though. Compared to what else is out there I love day's casting. Apollo, however, can become so excited that he talks way and stumbles over a lot of words forcing the audience to focus quite a lot to understand his points. Other than that I love the fact that it's an american and a british guy casting :D | ||
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Sabu113
United States11047 Posts
Though really what matters is were they enjoyable to listen to? Yes most definitely. P.P.s.... I am really entertained by how blunt that german interviewer is. He ... I don't know if it is his command of english but the way he phrases his questions is hilllarrious. | ||
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frequency
Australia1901 Posts
Day9: Stop saying obnoxious. Fuck. | ||
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Drazzzt
Germany999 Posts
So, ppl pls relax and have a good time. GO DAY9, GO APOLLO! | ||
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mafu
United States10 Posts
he seems energetic and pretty well informed of sc2 his accent is thick and its fun to find out what hes saying! and hes good looking :o | ||
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Fiasko
Germany244 Posts
On August 20 2010 16:54 mafu wrote: i love the interviewer/host he seems energetic and pretty well informed of sc2 his accent is thick and its fun to find out what hes saying! and hes good looking :o Yes he is well informed. Normally he casts the esl-TV sc2 shows! It´s Dennis"Take"Gehlen | ||
Pholon
Netherlands6142 Posts
One thing that bothered me is how Day9 is trying to propagate "the standard". "This is normal, this is standard etc". When Demu got his early gas versus Idra on Metal you almost threw a bit but he did it perfectly reasonably to get that Reaper PLUS the upgrade right away. DW man, these players know what they're doing. | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
It's alot better today tho, specialy from day9. dApollo still talks to much and fast imo, screwing up words and basicly just telling us how the players "just looove that", "its sooo much this", "a huuuuge that".. I don't know, but not the best caster imo. | ||
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Doraemon.doraemon
United States335 Posts
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zekie
Canada380 Posts
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ChezGod
United States590 Posts
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disco
Netherlands1667 Posts
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RushGG
United Kingdom212 Posts
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Sealteam
Australia296 Posts
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
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Sealteam
Australia296 Posts
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Baksteen
Netherlands438 Posts
On August 20 2010 18:58 Sealteam wrote: DAY9 FTW. Some other guy also talking sometimes. Good for a little variation, I like it. =) I feel that dApollo is doing a really good job tbh. They improved alot seeing from day 1. | ||
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Psyclon
Bulgaria2443 Posts
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trancey
United States430 Posts
It does seem kind of rude saying "uh huh" whenever Day9 thinks Apollo is over-chatting, although, I'm enjoying them both. Day9 probably could be doing a 1-man show with similar if not better results though. | ||
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GeminiOne
Germany87 Posts
Overall Day[9] is doing a great job! I just love the way he is casting...so nice and kinda chilled in comparison to Apollo. Day[9] is like a professional showman from the US...he is the man! He has that typical US-showman style...It's hard to describe for me and I don't find the right words because my english sucks a little bit but he is awesome...I just love his style. You know...he is kinda this SC2 guy from America who knows it all...who has done it all and he just knows how to address the people and how to deliver a good show! Way to go Day[9]!...and Apollo is ok too...he is a nice sidekick to Sean.^^ | ||
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cyprin
United States1105 Posts
14/14 is standard for a reason vs terran as zerg. Stop criticizing it, what do you want Idra to do, 6 pool? Sarens did the same thing every single game Reapers into Hellions Yes his followups were different Maybe his timings were different Stop hailing him as a genius of starcraft strategy. | ||
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Darkside-
United States52 Posts
On August 20 2010 20:10 Psyclon wrote: Day9's "aha" is getting more and more annoying I agree, though it's the only part of the cast that I have any issue with at all. Day: you don't need to give verbal affirmation every time someone says something you agree with | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
Dapollo hella enthusiastic lol. Maybe someday they'll be able to shout like the koreans. + Show Spoiler + PLAAAAGUUUUUUUUUUU | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 20 2010 19:59 Baksteen wrote: I feel that dApollo is doing a really good job tbh. They improved alot seeing from day 1. Yeah, I agree. Aside from the normal complaints of "find new phrases", I've been really, really impressed by Apollo this tournament. He's really done his research on the players and he's excellent at pointing out important things and making predictions. As far as double expert teams goes, this is probably the best I've heard for SC2 so far. | ||
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Skvid
Lithuania751 Posts
They covered most of the stuff that was happening micro and macro wise, they both made some good insights and accurate guessing (what y should do now that x has done this). But most importantly they made games more exiting to watch. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:44 cyprin wrote: Criticism: 14/14 is standard for a reason vs terran as zerg. Stop criticizing it, what do you want Idra to do, 6 pool? Qualifying a build as standard is a Day9 trademark. He does this for every player who doesn't pull-off something crazy. IdrA is also well known to have one single opener and sticking to it. If he ever opened with a 6-7 pool, you'd hear Shawn yell and drool all over the place. On August 20 2010 21:44 cyprin wrote: Sarens did the same thing every single game Reapers into Hellions Yes his followups were different Maybe his timings were different Stop hailing him as a genius of starcraft strategy. They don't have anything to win by saying the player is a moron for sticking for his guns. In Day9's KotB tournament, Day9 qualified Dimaga's play as "disappointing" when he stuck with speedling/blings to break an apparently impenetrable protoss wall-in he repeatedly rammed his head against. He got quite shocked when half the protoss base blowed up. | ||
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Nullius Vaz
United States3 Posts
I have to say I'm suprised they have dappolo doing this big of a tournament. I agree with what others said: day 9 does sound condescending when he mhm's and I think for good reason. Dappolo delivers in a crackly prepubescent squeal nothing that day hasn't already said or if he does it's often wrong/misinformed. You'll hear him repeating phrases that just don't fit and it makes it sound soo contrived. Overall it feels like what you'd get from an 8 year old trying to replicate a news anchor sitting in a cardboard box "tv" sorry if this sounds a bit harsh it's just making it tough to enjoy these vids. I daresay I might even prefer husky to dapollo O.O day9 you're still the man | ||
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Juaks
United States384 Posts
Sean: You have been great as allways. | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
(that GLHF.tv tho.. bluescreen crashed my windows 7 twice.. yeah wtf never going there again) | ||
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wollhandkrabbe
Germany97 Posts
On August 20 2010 13:14 Calmwinds wrote: German interviewer just doesn't know English well, I mean he means well, and you can tell he does, he seems like a pretty nice guy overall, and people bashing him are just misinterpreting the way he is coming off, I'm pretty sure he doesn't know much about starcraft in general, but knows that terran imbalance is quite the talk, so he's trying to get the progamer feedback on it. Cut the guy some slack, sheesh. He means well, but actually his german interviews sound quite the same. And his SC2 casts borderline painful IMO. I was so relieved when I heard they flew in the big guns to cast this tournament instead of letting ESL staff do it. | ||
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chekthehek
United States279 Posts
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
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dahornnn
United Kingdom395 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
This doesn't just apply to the casters though. I wish the players and the audience would be a little more animated as well. If you win a tough game, advancing to the semi finals, how about a shout and some fist pumping, and audience, let them hear it! | ||
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Qwerty.
United States292 Posts
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Jagwolf
United States5 Posts
The only thing I really heard that caught me kind of off guard from such a big tourny was appolo's use of the words "gay" and "rape". Now I understand hes a gamer and all of us for the most part say these words when referring to some kind of cheesy play or when talking about counters and what not. But I just felt like it was a little inappropriate for such a big event. edit: apollo says "straight away" too much XD | ||
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Siffer
United States467 Posts
He is either repeating things that Day9 says or is extremely vague. I also don't think he has a good casting voice. He stutters a lot and is too squeely. DJWheat/Day9 make a much better pair imo. Not only do they have great casting voices, but they fill proper roles. Wheat isn't an extremely analytical caster. He is basically the caster for the casual who will sometimes ask day questions. Day is the grizzled gamer vet who goes in depth and explains things. Apollo tries too hard to be analytical, when Day does 100x better job. | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
day9 - great as always? I may be a little bias, as I am a huge day9 fanboy. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Therapist..
United States57 Posts
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orion27
United States44 Posts
) I would tell apollo and day9 to have a conversation with each other rather than describing every single thing that is happening. If it was radio I would want a play by play, but I can see what's happening on the screen since I do believe day9 is controlling the screen movement and he's great at that. Other than that little detail, I think both day and apollo are doing a awesome job together. It just keeps getting better. On August 21 2010 05:57 Qwerty. wrote: hopefully they've made an agreement on eye-dra or id-dra I also hope they can decide on just one pronunciation of idra's name. At the same time though, it makes me chuckle. And I like to chuckle. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
I think you guys should make some sort of system to remedy this. Apollo talks for 30 seconds straight no matter what and then Day9 talks right after for 30 seconds straight no matter what. When something exciting happens whoever is not speaking at the moment of course can "OHHH!!!!!!" out of excitement but he ought to let the other person finish his 30 seconds. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
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Slaptoast
Canada134 Posts
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jabberwokie
Canada142 Posts
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Hold-Lurker
United States403 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Nefra
United Kingdom37 Posts
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Hunch
Canada336 Posts
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Hunch
Canada336 Posts
On August 22 2010 02:22 Hunch wrote: ya i think dApollo believes he has to step it up to the likes of day9 and he just needs to chill a bit, day9 is like the greatest caster on earth and trying to keep up with him is just not gonna happen, just relax a little and put your 2cents in when hes done talking, hes been doing this sort of thing for years so take this opportunity to work together with one of the greats, not try to beat/surpass him but either way both do a great job and i hope they have fun casting tomorrows games ^^ fail TT | ||
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Lalgee
United Kingdom65 Posts
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tokalon
United States11 Posts
On August 20 2010 02:16 eNtitY~ wrote: Apollo has to stop saying "Straight away" in every sentence. Agreed. Day9 and almost every other caster out there also need to curb the use of the "throwing down" verbiage. "Starting", "building", or "constructing" are all great alternatives to describing someone's actions in their base. I think they're both doing a great job and have been enjoying both their enthusiasm during the games. Apollo especially has this in spades and has made some unexpected insightful comments imo. He catches a lot of the incorrect or speculative assumptions Day9 tends to make and they make a good team as a result. However, both casters have a lot of growth and maturity ahead of them before they can truly be called professional e-sports announcers. In any case, they have all been great games and the commentary makes it that much more exciting. Edit: typos | ||
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MisterPuppy
161 Posts
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QueueQueue
Canada1000 Posts
I kind of got tired of hearing "Yeah definitely" in response to Day[9]'s comments constantly though. Should probably seek other means of agreeing with your co-caster instead of the same phrase. | ||
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thezergk
United States492 Posts
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
but really lets just get it over with Day9+Tasteless, thanks. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10697 Posts
Dimaga blows up huge amounts of Banelings/Lings into the Terran army and comes out barely on top/equal... And then they are not only surpriced but seemingly totally blown away that Tarson, which had about a million baracks with reactors and tons of facilities, comes out ahead in Food? They also said that  imaga* crushed Tarsons army several times while Dimaga was left standing with just a few Zerglings or very few Ultras, in other word they exchanged armies...That really felt kinda strange to me. | ||
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Seze
42 Posts
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tokalon
United States11 Posts
On August 23 2010 11:40 MisterPuppy wrote: oof dj wheat didn't love apollo tooo much.... Chill publicly slams Apollo for "mic etiquette" while simultaneously interjecting "like" every half sentence. Pot, meet kettle. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On August 23 2010 13:37 benjammin wrote: apollo should stop using "rape" asap Definitely agreed on this, I noticed this twice I believe in the finals and cringed each time. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On August 23 2010 19:07 dcemuser wrote: Definitely agreed on this, I noticed this twice I believe in the finals and cringed each time. Yeah, definitely a no-no. It made me cringe as well. I can't believe he did that... | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
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Calneon
28 Posts
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Immersion_
United Kingdom794 Posts
. Loved the casting, way he said SO much damage in comedy British accent all the time was pretty funny. Felt like they knew what they were talking about, kept it interesting, and a bit of humour thrown in. Great mix imo, great event all round hope to see more like it soon! | ||
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Voros
United States222 Posts
apollo should stop using "rape" asap Between "rape," exclamations of "Jesus Christ," and using "gay" pejoratively at least once, he was far from professional. Apollo has a good voice and the personality to be a caster, but he's got plenty rough edges that will need some time to be ground off. And to be fair, Day9 spoke over Apollo quite a bit as well, which may be what happens when you put two amateur play-by-play guys with big personalities in the same booth. The casting scene in general is plagued by problems that you wouldn't see even in local tv/radio broadcasts, as professional sports casters are trained and understand the expectations viewers have of them. When you take a random extrovert off the street and ask him to do the job, he's naturally going to be in over his head for a long time, particularly if he doesn't have a mentor willing to show him the ropes. I'd love to see folks who have a background in radio and/or sportscasting take a leading role in SC2 casting and maybe even offer some tutorials in what to say and when to say it. I know that Total Biscuit is a radio pro, but aside from him, is there anyone in the English-language community who could meet that need? | ||
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Redx
Netherlands77 Posts
P | ||
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CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
would have much rather listened to day9 and jp | ||
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shawabawa
United Kingdom417 Posts
On August 23 2010 20:16 Immersion_ wrote: Bit strange about the rape hate (lol), maybe it's a UK thing but it's a pretty inoffensive word used to describe any kind of ownage .Maybe in normal conversation, I use rape all the time when talking with my friends but even I did a double take when he said it. If you're casting something to such a large audience you really need to keep your language in check. Also he said "yeah definitely" way too much. I also didn't like how he would give orders to the players ("You need to do this now, please do this or he will destroy you") Day9 was pro as always | ||
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huxs
Sweden18 Posts
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On August 23 2010 20:16 Immersion_ wrote: Bit strange about the rape hate (lol), maybe it's a UK thing but it's a pretty inoffensive word used to describe any kind of ownage . Loved the casting, way he said SO much damage in comedy British accent all the time was pretty funny. Felt like they knew what they were talking about, kept it interesting, and a bit of humour thrown in. Great mix imo, great event all round hope to see more like it soon!There are a lot of rape victims in the world, it's a word that isn't offensive to most men but I'd imagine anyone who's been thorough something like that wouldn't like to hear that word thrown around casually. | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
But maybe one thing to the organizers (and as a comfort for those who couldn't attend and watched the stream): It was very, very hard to hear the casters, as there was so much noise in the hall and for some reason they didn't turn up the volume until the 3rd place match. Quite a disadvantage of watching it live. But the three big screens which always showed the observer view and the two opponents' views made up for that =D | ||
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Dgiese
United States2687 Posts
Rape is an oft-used term in gaming, it's just an aspect of the culture - deal with it. | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
Just be natural. But yea for a real professional cast saying shit like rape or gay and other offensive internet Bnet slang isn't acceptable and sponsors who care about positive PR won't like that. Just keep that in mind. | ||
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
On August 23 2010 21:53 Dgiese wrote: Lighten up... why do you feel the need to rape their commentary. Rape is an oft-used term in gaming, it's just an aspect of the culture - deal with it. the longer you think like this the longer gaming will stay away from the mainstream | ||
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NightOfTheDead
Lithuania1711 Posts
On August 19 2010 00:08 Necrosjef wrote: Day9 got some insight into what is going on. Apollo is just repeating what Day9 is saying and then saying what he is seeing. Sorry to make this look like criticism, but this is what i have seen everytime apollo was commenting. Kinda repeating what hard counters what all over the place for many times - it does get you carried away from the game. He s a nice guy, but as was said trying that too hard. Relax dude. | ||
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Dystisis
Norway713 Posts
At times, dApollo would get excited about something, which was good because it added to the enjoyability of the games, creating tension. But then, Day9 would cut in with like "...uhu. Yeah, and you can see here.. blah blah" in a way too calm voice. Breaking the tension. But generally I think they were pretty good, not sure what everyone is complaining about besides the above. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On August 24 2010 02:59 benjammin wrote: the longer you think like this the longer gaming will stay away from the mainstream at what point did you ever stop to imagine esport and gaming to be an attractive medium towards the average teen and his mom? AT WHAT POINT did you ever think that people would view sc2 with the same eyes as baseball? soccer? american football? UFC? At what point did you ever think jocks and nerds would gather around grab a beer, watch the IEM championships together and then discuss the outcome? because at that point you fucking fooled yourself. Gaming and all other sports have its own language and its own culture. The day any sport tries to be something its not, is not only a sad day but also a day where it cuts away from its hardcore community. Sure you might gain, but the sacrifice is too costly. hmm, heres an example. Soccer for chicks. You dont watch it for the commentators or the strategical aspect of soccer, or because you enjoy soccer. heres another word for you: political correct, i dunno about you but the second someone mentions those two words i already hate the guy / girl. OP: I liked both casters, but i think their personalities are so similar that they clashed more often than not. They should discuss it with each others, give a sign for when you want the other to carry your momentum rather than stumble over each others over and over again. | ||
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On August 24 2010 03:33 Madkipz wrote: at what point did you ever stop to imagine esport and gaming to be an attractive medium towards the average teen and his mom? AT WHAT POINT did you ever think that people would view sc2 with the same eyes as baseball? soccer? american football? UFC? At what point did you ever think jocks and nerds would gather around grab a beer, watch the IEM championships together and then discuss the outcome? because at that point you fucking fooled yourself. Gaming and all other sports have its own language and its own culture. The day any sport tries to be something its not, is not only a sad day but also a day where it cuts away from its hardcore community. Sure you might gain, but the sacrifice is too costly. No one is trying to take away gaming culture. The point is that, in any sport, the commentators aren't going to be using the same language as players use amongst themselves in the locker room, that's pretty much a given. hmm, heres an example. Soccer for chicks. You dont watch it for the commentators or the strategical aspect of soccer, or because you enjoy soccer. Well there are plenty of women who enjoy soccer and other sports, just as there are girls that enjoy gaming. It seems like a fairly irrellevent point anyway. heres another word for you: political correct, i dunno about you but the second someone mentions those two words i already hate the guy / girl. You're the first person to mention those two words in this thread, so you must hate yourself? ... edited for clarity | ||
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tokalon
United States11 Posts
On August 23 2010 21:53 Dgiese wrote: Gaming and all other sports have its own language and its own culture. The day any sport tries to be something its not, is not only a sad day but also a day where it cuts away from its hardcore community. Sure you might gain, but the sacrifice is too costly. Seriously, that's your justification for co-opting a term that defines one of the most deplorable acts of humanity? I have a hard time believing that refraining from the use of "rape" in an e-sports commentary is detrimental to anyone. There are numerous aspects of e-sports worth championing then fighting for the right to marginalize rape survivors. In Weapon of Choice, I found Chill's comments about Day9's dominating co-casting tendencies to be interesting. I can definitely see a part of Day9's personality having a hard time sharing the spotlight. He probably really loves being the center of attention and it must be hard to take a backseat in a field that he is arguably the best and most successful at. To have to share last weekend with a caster no one has even heard of must have been doubly frustrating. Regardless, the IEM was such a great series. All that casting must have been exhausting and everyone did an amazing job coping and staying fresh considering. | ||
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alexanderzero
United States659 Posts
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On August 23 2010 20:09 Calneon wrote: I think both casters did a great job, though I think Apollo needs to learn what alliteration means. I remember him twice saying, "I can't alliterate that enough", when he meant "emphasize". I noticed this too, but overall I think both guys are still more literate than most sports commentators out there. One thing they do need to work on is overuse of certain terms, Day9 describing every kind of harassment as 'obnoxious' and every mistake, whether large or small as a 'blunder' kind of dilutes those terms and sucks the meaning out of them. | ||
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Speake
United States494 Posts
Apollo also says "on the back foot" like 15 times per match, got a little tedious. Aside from that i really enjoyed the commentary, just some little overused phrases stuck out to me. | ||
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UberThing
Great Britain410 Posts
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
On August 24 2010 03:33 Madkipz wrote: at what point did you ever stop to imagine esport and gaming to be an attractive medium towards the average teen and his mom? AT WHAT POINT did you ever think that people would view sc2 with the same eyes as baseball? soccer? american football? UFC? At what point did you ever think jocks and nerds would gather around grab a beer, watch the IEM championships together and then discuss the outcome? because at that point you fucking fooled yourself. Gaming and all other sports have its own language and its own culture. The day any sport tries to be something its not, is not only a sad day but also a day where it cuts away from its hardcore community. Sure you might gain, but the sacrifice is too costly. hmm, heres an example. Soccer for chicks. You dont watch it for the commentators or the strategical aspect of soccer, or because you enjoy soccer. heres another word for you: political correct, i dunno about you but the second someone mentions those two words i already hate the guy / girl. OP: I liked both casters, but i think their personalities are so similar that they clashed more often than not. They should discuss it with each others, give a sign for when you want the other to carry your momentum rather than stumble over each others over and over again. uh, what? i have no hope for esports to be as successful as any of those franchises, but any future growth of the industry is handcuffed by immaturity (given the clientele this might just be impossible). and your argument about about "be something its not" is just hopelessly naive--everyone sells out. trying to appease the hardcore community is wasted effort. if you can't see the difference between political correctness and being an asshole, i can't help you, but apollo needs to up his professionalism for sure. as someone else in the thread said, avoiding saying "rape" has no negative impact on anyone, only positive. the apologists who say it's part of "gaming culture" are out of their minds. | ||
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Ginchan
Belgium55 Posts
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Tuneful
United States327 Posts
On August 24 2010 07:29 alexanderzero wrote: It seemed like the energy kinda died down by the time the final match was played. Perhaps the casters were just tired after that big tournament but they seemed kind of hushed and unenthusiastic during the entire final series. Day was certainly (and audibly) losing his voice at that point. Casting for 5 days straight for that many hours isn't healthy for anyone. I couldn't tell whether Apollo was marking in a similar fashion. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On August 24 2010 08:42 benjammin wrote: uh, what? i have no hope for esports to be as successful as any of those franchises, but any future growth of the industry is handcuffed by immaturity (given the clientele this might just be impossible). and your argument about about "be something its not" is just hopelessly naive--everyone sells out. trying to appease the hardcore community is wasted effort. if you can't see the difference between political correctness and being an asshole, i can't help you, but apollo needs to up his professionalism for sure. as someone else in the thread said, avoiding saying "rape" has no negative impact on anyone, only positive. the apologists who say it's part of "gaming culture" are out of their minds. "Professionalism" = ???? Where exactly will you stop? family guy made fun of aids, why arent you protecting their rights? huh? or south park making fun of cancer? Why dont you go be an hero elsewhere. If you cant see the difference between commentating a match and actually offending people who have been raped then i dont want to help you understand it and if you have an eu account i will challenge you sir to a grudgematch. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On August 24 2010 07:39 unSpeake wrote: I noticed day saying a lot of "does he have a _____ ........... no he doesn't" or "....yes he does". I'd rather he just say "____ player has/doesn't have a ____". Apollo also says "on the back foot" like 15 times per match, got a little tedious. Aside from that i really enjoyed the commentary, just some little overused phrases stuck out to me. I've been listening to Sean commentate since before his Day[9] daily, he has always been like this and has always done that exact thing... No point in pointing it out, that's how he commentates. | ||
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
On August 24 2010 08:59 Madkipz wrote: "Professionalism" = ???? Where exactly will you stop? family guy made fun of aids, why arent you protecting their rights? huh? or south park making fun of cancer? Why dont you go be an hero elsewhere. If you cant see the difference between commentating a match and actually offending people who have been raped then i dont want to help you understand it and if you have an eu account i will challenge you sir to a grudgematch. don't cherry pick irrelevant examples to try to prove your point. no one is arguing for complete consistency through all forms of media, all i'm arguing is that removing some potentially offensive language will add to the professionalism of the casters. why's that such a hard fact to accept? i'm not asking for every person on earth to stop using the word that way (hopeless), just casters--they represent ESL, they have different standards. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On August 24 2010 08:59 Madkipz wrote: "Professionalism" = ???? Where exactly will you stop? family guy made fun of aids, why arent you protecting their rights? huh? or south park making fun of cancer? Why dont you go be an hero elsewhere. If you cant see the difference between commentating a match and actually offending people who have been raped then i dont want to help you understand it and if you have an eu account i will challenge you sir to a grudgematch. dude why is it so hard for you to understand that saying "rape" is a bad thing? professionalism has an obvious meaning, and it includes using more appropriate diction, the same way football or baseball commentators do. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On August 24 2010 09:16 benjammin wrote: don't cherry pick irrelevant examples to try to prove your point. no one is arguing for complete consistency through all forms of media, all i'm arguing is that removing some potentially offensive language will add to the professionalism of the casters. why's that such a hard fact to accept? i'm not asking for every person on earth to stop using the word that way (hopeless), just casters--they represent ESL, they have different standards. dont cherry pick my sentences and leave out the grudgematch challenge or i win by default (dodger??). They dont represent the ESL as much as they represent themselves as respective shoutcasters and you are infact arguing for complete consistency trough all forms of shoutcasting and i dare speak against you because once you start removing aspects, it can potentially snowball. I will not have you neutering Apollo, he should be free to use whatever descriptive language he sees fit just as the ESL are free to choose who shoutcasts their next tournament. Hard to accept? why dont you go jump down a manhole as its name is changed to sewer entrance before you start arguing over what internet hired shoutcasters are and are not allowed to say. dude why is it so hard for you to understand that saying "rape" is a bad thing? professionalism has an obvious meaning, and it includes using more appropriate diction, the same way football or baseball commentators do. dude why is it so hard for you to understand that saying rape in the context of a players blatantly one sided victory is a good thing? + Show Spoiler + That is professionalism, a fake personality displayed at work. Professionalism is that happy happy joy joy smiley face that people often feel forced to maintain. No matter what is happening in your real life, you are to behave as if you are a perfectly happy robot at work. I hate professionalism. It alienates people from each other. It makes the world a colder uglier place. As a consumer, all things equal, I would give my business to someone who is authentically grumpy instead of someone who is pretending to be super nice. The Internet has made it possible for a lot of people who hate the fake professionalism of the real world to do freelance work from home. It is one of the very best things about being self-employed and working from home, you do not have to be fake and superficial anymore. The trend I am seeing as a result is that more and more authentic entrepreneurs are doing business with like-minded folks. The reason we love to frequent small Mom & Pop type stores is because we get to know the owners as real people and we like giving them our money for the same exact item that we could get up the street from a big fake cold-hearted business. This trend is rapidly spreading throughout the Internet. I am not telling you to burp and fart in front of your customers. You do not have to cry all day at work about how your favorite dog ran away. Do not tell everyone the ugly details of your ongoing divorce. Do not giggle about your new boyfriend on company time. You still have to conduct yourself with some class and manners. I am talking about that fake cheesy smile, eyes open unnaturally wide, and singsong voice that so many people hide behind. If you are truly secure in who you are, your ability to provide good customer service, a good work ethic, and quality business integrity, then why do you need to behave in a fake professional manner? People intuitively know when others are genuine or not. We like to do business with our friends whenever possible. If you spend the bulk of your waking hours each week at work behaving in a professional fake manner, then eventually you are going to get very good at faking it. The words we speak and the way we say them impacts us on a deeper level then we realize. What is that doing to the spirit of those who feel that they must be fake all of the time in order to be taken seriously by bosses, coworkers, and customers? It is part of what makes us feel so isolated and lonely. Because we are behaving in such a fake manner towards everyone else, it is understood that others are treating us in a fake manner. We do not feel like anyone really cares about us and the work that we do. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On August 24 2010 09:24 mOnion wrote: dude why is it so hard for you to understand that saying "rape" is a bad thing? professionalism has an obvious meaning, and it includes using more appropriate diction, the same way football or baseball commentators do. why is it so hard for people to accept that language can evolve. I do think the word rape probably does carry around a negative connotation and what not, but things can become idiomatically relevant to the group that is using it, and even if you're getting all technical using it as a word for winning SC games by defeating your opponent is pretty accurate for part of the definition an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation totally violently seizing your opponents territory. People need to let get, i dont want gaming to be mainstream if it has to conform to something. Not even this example just the idea itself is not good | ||
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Alamire
Australia19 Posts
Day9: Personally, I could do without the 'Are there any <player> fans in the house?' cheerleading all the time. Still, well done to both of you. | ||
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
On August 24 2010 09:31 Divinek wrote: why is it so hard for people to accept that language can evolve. I do think the word rape probably does carry around a negative connotation and what not, but things can become idiomatically relevant to the group that is using it, and even if you're getting all technical using it as a word for winning SC games by defeating your opponent is pretty accurate for part of the definition an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation totally violently seizing your opponents territory. People need to let get, i dont want gaming to be mainstream if it has to conform to something. Not even this example just the idea itself is not good yes, that must be it, gaming culture is full of linguistic trailblazers seeking to reclaim the word rape from those pesky rape victims! also, the fourth definition of a word does not dispel it from the first, most common, and most offensive meaning. reality: a bunch of dumbass teenagers starting using rape to describe beating someone in a game, fully aware of its first definition, and enough repetition has made it seem not terrible grow up | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
The act of growing up has nothing with how you word yourself on an internet forum and you are insuating on a gameing forum that he is a child. As long as he is emotionally independant and capable of voicing his own oppinion, contributes to society and have a carreer path planned ahead of him or already has a job that doesnt involve shoveling shit then He is an adult and you just insulted him not his stance but the man directly. You are voicing for shoutcasters to be more "professional" in the line of shoutcasting, he is against. who took the most adult route in voicing their oppinion? Now that this is out of the way you can start to guess who needs to "grow up"??? oh, and do read my response a few posts up, check the edited in spoiler. Be the man and realise professionalism is bad and just a rehash of political correctness that affects sport shoutcasters in general. | ||
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On August 24 2010 09:30 Madkipz wrote: <snip> You still have to conduct yourself with some class and manners. <snip> This is what people are talking about. Not using the word "rape" and "gay" is more about showing class and manners than it is about fake professionalism and cheesy smiles and gamer culture and whatever else was in your wall of text. | ||
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