|
What is the hardest match-up in your opinion? For me the top three were TvT, ZvT, and TvP, but I'm leaning more towards TvT just because of how ridiculous the early game is. There is just too many options to choose from, making it really hard to know what's coming. Tank Viking is a great unit composition, but it is impossible to open with, and takes incredibly long to transition into due to the high gas cost of tanks. There are so many situations in the early game from marine hellion pushes, thor rushes, cloak banshee rushes, proxy reapers, 6 rax bunker, etc. No other matchup has to deal with all the stupid shit that Terrans can do to each other.
I would say ZvT is a close second, but "mech" isn't really that scary in my opinion. It takes forever to build up an army that can push and zerg can just power like crazy and either overrun or counter attack the T quite easily, then of course replenish and reinforce much faster. Though on maps like Kulas and Steps, I don't see how zergs can beat good terran players. Right now TvZ is my best matchup by far(probably around a 70% winrate), but the higher level zergs I have played just demolished me.
I wouldn't say ZvZ was hard, just retarded and very punishing. I only play off race on customs so the opponents suck ass, but one baneling can really screw you if you don't focus for a second D:
Poll: Hardest Matchup in SC2ZvT (54) 41% TvT (23) 17% PvT (22) 17% TvP (14) 11% ZvZ (6) 5% PvP (5) 4% ZvP (4) 3% TvZ (3) 2% PvZ (1) 1% 132 total votes Your vote: Hardest Matchup in SC2 (Vote): ZvZ
(Vote): ZvT
(Vote): ZvP
(Vote): TvT
(Vote): TvZ
(Vote): TvP
(Vote): PvZ
(Vote): PvT
(Vote): PvP
|
is the poll for the race specified first to be the hardest or the hardest for both sides?
|
On August 01 2010 14:21 Zeromadcowz wrote:
is the poll for the race specified first to be the hardest or the hardest for both sides?
9 poll options.. so of course it is race specified. It would be impossible for one matchup to be hardest for both sides unless it was a mirror.
|
i find pvp to be the hardest because of the enormous amounts of cheese involved. pvt follows after that for me
|
I've been randoming for this past week and so far I would have to go with TvP. It's probably just me not knowing the MU that well though. But on the other hand, I played zerg in the beta and still have a pretty hard time with ZvT. Ultimately going with TvP though.
Edit: But of course I'm an idiot and hit PvT. :/
|
On August 01 2010 14:25 Vessel wrote:
i find pvp to be the hardest because of the enormous amounts of cheese involved. pvt follows after that for me
Cheese such as proxy gates and cannon rushes are quite easy to deal with in my opinion, but if you mean stuff like 4 warp gate all-ins, fast dts, then yeah I can see it being annoying since you can't really scout in PvP until an observer comes out(which means doom vs a 4 gate).
|
There are so many situations in the early game from marine hellion pushes, thor rushes, cloak banshee rushes, proxy reapers, 6 rax bunker, etc. No other matchup has to deal with all the stupid shit that Terrans can do to each other.
Oh yeah? Here's what Terrans can open TvZ:
6 rax reaper
8 rax reaper bunker rush
Mass reaper
Reactor hellion
Hellion drop
Igniter hellion
1 Banshee harass
Cloak banshee
Viking
Thor drop
Tank drop
Marine/tank attack
Marine/hellion attack
Marine/marauder attack
Marauder/hellion attack
This doesn't include any proxies.
All of these can transition into an expo or a 1 base all-in attack.
Here's what Zerg can do ZvT:
6 pool
Roach all-in
Baneling bust
1 base muta
Fast expand
...
|
ZvT hardest to win followed by PvT
|
|
|
On August 01 2010 14:28 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +There are so many situations in the early game from marine hellion pushes, thor rushes, cloak banshee rushes, proxy reapers, 6 rax bunker, etc. No other matchup has to deal with all the stupid shit that Terrans can do to each other. Oh yeah? Here's what Terrans can open TvZ: 6 rax reaper - all in build, destroyed by any reasonably fast queen 8 rax reaper bunker rush - 1 base zerg D: a blind hatch first is pretty screwd though Mass reaper - I'll give you this one ever since trying it after watching Lz do it, but overlords over your cliffs lets you know which angle they are coming in from, speedling surround as soon as they jump up.. Reactor hellion - Defend and move on, watch Idra vs QxC Hellion drop - Overlords around your airspace, takes like 5-6 seconds to drop all 4 hellions Igniter hellion - dunno what this means, getting this upgrade takes a bit of time and requires a tech lab, it is good in mid-late game if zerg doesn't defend drone line expos 1 Banshee harass - two queens pop b4 1 banshee, and this is easy to scout coming Cloak banshee - lair timing?, overseer always comes before cloak finishes, if not soon after Viking - its just a unit Thor drop - speedling Tank drop - good on LT, Kulas, what else? mutas should come out in time, otherwise either break your rocks or have drop researched Marine/tank attack - pretty gay to defend I'll admit Marine/hellion attack - speedlings Marine/marauder attack - T didn't tech then and is pretty all in, spine crawler Marauder/hellion attack - never seen this b4 This doesn't include any proxies. All of these can transition into an expo or a 1 base all-in attack. Here's what Zerg can do ZvT: 6 pool Roach all-in Baneling bust 1 base muta Fast expand ...
Zergs have overlords, scouting and knowing when shit is coming is pretty easy.
|
On August 01 2010 14:38 superbabosheki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2010 14:28 Saracen wrote:There are so many situations in the early game from marine hellion pushes, thor rushes, cloak banshee rushes, proxy reapers, 6 rax bunker, etc. No other matchup has to deal with all the stupid shit that Terrans can do to each other. Oh yeah? Here's what Terrans can open TvZ: 6 rax reaper - all in build, destroyed by any reasonably fast queen 8 rax reaper bunker rush - 1 base zerg D: a blind hatch first is pretty screwd though Mass reaper - I'll give you this one ever since trying it after watching Lz do it, but overlords over your cliffs lets you know which angle they are coming in from, speedling surround as soon as they jump up.. Reactor hellion - Defend and move on, watch Idra vs QxC Hellion drop - Overlords around your airspace, takes like 5-6 seconds to drop all 4 hellions Igniter hellion - dunno what this means, getting this upgrade takes a bit of time and requires a tech lab, it is good in mid-late game if zerg doesn't defend drone line expos 1 Banshee harass - two queens pop b4 1 banshee, and this is easy to scout coming Cloak banshee - lair timing?, overseer always comes before cloak finishes, if not soon after Viking - its just a unit Thor drop - speedling Tank drop - good on LT, Kulas, what else? Marine/tank attack - pretty gay to defend I'll admit Marine/hellion attack - speedlings Marine/marauder attack - T didn't tech then and is pretty all in, spine crawler Marauder/hellion attack - never seen this b4 This doesn't include any proxies. All of these can transition into an expo or a 1 base all-in attack. Here's what Zerg can do ZvT: 6 pool Roach all-in Baneling bust 1 base muta Fast expand ... Zergs have dead overlords if scouting vs marines, scouting and knowing when shit is coming is pretty hard when you wall 99.99999% of the time.
here fixed it for you!
As for me the top 3 hardest matches are
TvZ obiviously cause zerg s just don't have any answers to tanks, and have to suffer all the bull crap terrans are pulling on them.
ZvZ cause it's always an all in baneling bust and you must be crazy to try to do otherwise since it's just soo easy for the other zerg to switch muta and own your face. Than you're missing 1 baneling and boom 20 zerglin just died!! it's a pretty stupid matchup if you want to know.
TvT would be the 3rd simply cause it results in a tank vs tank and 1 scan while your tank are unsieged and GG  but all in all it's technicality!
|
|
|
On August 01 2010 14:42 Leeoku wrote:
imo zvt and zvp
You can't be serious about ZvP -_- Zerg has pretty much full map control throughout the game, has nice timings to power, and the only real threat are the walking deathstars and templar. But this matchup does depend a lot on how well you can defend the two gate, and how you respond vs the all-in attack that comes after, or the quick expo.
|
On August 01 2010 14:31 kNyTTyM wrote:
ZvT hardest to win followed by PvT
I agree with this. I find PvT ridiculous early on. It's like the gateway units are so flimsy compared to maurader marine. I find if T goes like maurader FE, then the only viable option is to all in bust with some immortals, if that doesnt work i dunno how u can possibly win O_O!
|
Hmm, the top 3 hardest matchups: ZvT, TvT, PvT.
Terran, Terran, Terran. Funny, that.
|
|
|
I find PvT to be the hardest until you get a robo with a decent amount of sentry zealot, then it becomes easier then PvZ.
|
On August 01 2010 14:38 superbabosheki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2010 14:28 Saracen wrote:There are so many situations in the early game from marine hellion pushes, thor rushes, cloak banshee rushes, proxy reapers, 6 rax bunker, etc. No other matchup has to deal with all the stupid shit that Terrans can do to each other. Oh yeah? Here's what Terrans can open TvZ: 6 rax reaper - all in build, destroyed by any reasonably fast queen 8 rax reaper bunker rush - 1 base zerg D: a blind hatch first is pretty screwd though Mass reaper - I'll give you this one ever since trying it after watching Lz do it, but overlords over your cliffs lets you know which angle they are coming in from, speedling surround as soon as they jump up.. Reactor hellion - Defend and move on, watch Idra vs QxC Hellion drop - Overlords around your airspace, takes like 5-6 seconds to drop all 4 hellions Igniter hellion - dunno what this means, getting this upgrade takes a bit of time and requires a tech lab, it is good in mid-late game if zerg doesn't defend drone line expos 1 Banshee harass - two queens pop b4 1 banshee, and this is easy to scout coming Cloak banshee - lair timing?, overseer always comes before cloak finishes, if not soon after Viking - its just a unit Thor drop - speedling Tank drop - good on LT, Kulas, what else? mutas should come out in time, otherwise either break your rocks or have drop researched Marine/tank attack - pretty gay to defend I'll admit Marine/hellion attack - speedlings Marine/marauder attack - T didn't tech then and is pretty all in, spine crawler Marauder/hellion attack - never seen this b4 This doesn't include any proxies. All of these can transition into an expo or a 1 base all-in attack. Here's what Zerg can do ZvT: 6 pool Roach all-in Baneling bust 1 base muta Fast expand ... Zergs have overlords, scouting and knowing when shit is coming is pretty easy.
Not. Just look at Idra games for example, it's very hard to scout with an OL against any decent player who knows the overlord pathings, so usually you need to rely on Zergling scouting (running up the ramp to see whats up.) Or till you get speedoverlords / overseers.
The problem also isn't just the openings, it's the damn 340931 follow ups that Terran can do. While Zerg can't do shit, and the things that Zerg do are easier to scout, and easier to defend. Hell if you see no expansion you know instantly that somethings up. And if you don't, throw a scan and you will see everything. Oh and Zerg aggressive openings usually have no real follow up, if they fail, you lose, at the same time they are way easier to block. It's just how the match up works currently. P / T attacks, depending how well Zerg defends, it will usually decide the game.
And knowing when shit is coming is true, but you mainly know it when they attack, meaning if you made a bit too many drones it's GG, especially since you can't get sunkens up fast enough.
|
On August 01 2010 14:49 Flipperbw wrote:
Hmm, the top 3 hardest matchups: ZvT, TvT, PvT.
Terran, Terran, Terran. Funny, that.
This is just a result of Terran having more viable openings, as has already been mentioned.
|
On August 01 2010 14:31 kNyTTyM wrote:
ZvT hardest to win followed by PvT
No doubt in anyone's mind that Z has it the hardest. LoL like mentioned T can do anything he wants and it will work.
PvT on the other hand, I really think there are harder matchups. T really only has 1/1/1 that is so threatening. I really think this match up will get better as time goes on and people start accepting that Protoss just needs to expand a bit faster, and void ray is not answer to everything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
