I agree with some aspects of real.id, and disagree with others. (I also found the Hitler spoof hilarious, because it's true, soccer moms have been ruining many aspects of society. When I say soccer moms I don't really mean them, just the overprotective ones. They ruined hockey development in my area, as a personal example)
The whole real.id system is a grey area. There are as many pros as there are cons. Unfortunately, history shows cons are easily remembred. There is also the issue that most of the pros and cons are direct IF THEN counter arguments.
example:
Con: IF people have my first and last name THEN they can steal my id or track me down. Pro Counter: IF people have your first and last name THEN you have to be more responsible about yourself.
There are also many other types of argument-counterarguments:
Con Side Says: People can google my name and find out a bunch of information about me. Pro Side Rebuttal: It's illegal for anyone other then yourself to post personal phone and home addresses, as well as many other types of personal information, on any public source. You should have been doing regular checks online (and around your city) to make sure that you're safe (even before real.id comes around). Not doing so is you're own fault. If you didn't want people to see your pictures online, don't post them on public domains.
Pro Side Says: Now I can share my SC2 exploits on facebook. Con side rebuttal: Now everyone can see my facebook. Pro side counter-rebuttal: Lock your facebook to friends only and stop adding random 'friends'. You don't need 3000 friends.
Now these are all just examples. Slightly biased for pro (I think), because that's where I'm leaning. I tried making them neutral because I understand that there are valid reasons to be for and against the real.id system.
After the intial shock of the real.id system was over, I found that the biggest argument against the real.id system was 'employment fears'. Since a lot of people do understand that most of their personal information is safe if they proactively make sure they're rights weren't intruded upon (not by blizzard, but by organization posting it and can be found by googling their names).
If you really do have this 'employment fear', just ask yourself this VERY same question you should ask yourself about all your other hobby's, skills, and habits before job interviews: "How has being a gamer helped me on a personal, social, and professional level?" I can come up with a few answers for myself, except for the professional level. But that's not a bad thing. Employers just want to hear what gaming is to you, and how it affects you. Just like all your other hobbies. Confidence is key. (I know crackheads who don't get fired because they keep that out of the job. Just like all other hobbies should be left at home.)
In closing, the real.id system has it's advantages and disadvantages. It's biggest advantage is that it should put the responsibility of actions and words back onto the shoulders of everyone. It's biggest disadvantage is that some people are nervous about letting their name be known. Unfortunately for the nay sayers, privacy of anonymity is a new invention and most of our grandparents wouldn't understand the notion of not telling people your name. I believe blizzard is stepping in the right direction, even if it is a very rough (and large) step to begin with).
I believe it is a step that had to be taken eventually because anyonymity was hampering social development on the internet. And with the increase in use of the internet around the world on a daily basis, this kind of action couldn't be forced off for too much longer.
While many people disagree with me, that's their right. I believe Blizzard is moving in the right direction. Kudos.
Really dumb idea. All they will really achieve by this is that a large portion of the 'honest' (productive) players/posters will be afraid/uneasy about posting in their forums, while the trolls will be making accounts with stupid fake names like Eric Cartman or whatnot and still posting dumb shit.
A row has erupted after Blizzard - the publishers of the popular online game World of Warcraft - announced that users on its site forums would have to post under their real names.
The firm say the move is to put an end to heated online arguments and topics started purely to cause trouble.
But users reacted angrily, citing concerns about safety and privacy.
Blizzard said they would start implementing the changes over the next few months.
A post, by Vameras - one of the site community managers - said that the forums had become " a place where flame wars, trolling and other unpleasantness run wild".
"Removing the veil of anonymity typical to online dialogue will contribute to a more positive forum environment, promote constructive conversations, and connect the Blizzard community in ways they haven't been connected before," the post continued. People talk
Blizzard new system - Real ID - means that users will have to post under their real first and last name.
The firm said it will implement the changes over the next few weeks, with the StarCraft II forums - a section dedicated to the forthcoming real time strategy game - making the switch by the end of the month. The World of Warcraft forum will change soon after. Continue reading the main story
Within five minutes, users had got hold of his telephone number, home address, photographs of him and a ton of other information
Jim Brand Gamer
In addition to users now posting under their own names, the site will allow others to rate post and interact with other users, creating a "social-networking platform".
"As the way gamers interact with one another continues to evolve, our goal is to ensure Battle.net is equipped to handle the ever-changing social-gaming experience for years to come," the post by Vameras went on.
The online community was swift to respond, with almost a thousand replies in less than 24 hours; the majority of which expressed their displeasure at the move.
"I can't even begin to fathom why you would do this", posted one user, while another wrote that it seems "like someone who likes Facebook came up with it, while being blissfully unaware that an awful lot of people deliberately avoid Facebook". Real worlds
One World of Warcraft player, Jim Brand, contacted BBC News to say how disappointed he was over the change.
"I have been using the forums for over five years, reporting bugs and trying to be helpful. Now, to have the privilege to help people on the forums I have to reveal my real name; I'm dead against it," he said.
"I work in a charity and deal with governments officials. If they do a search and see I am a gamer, it could affect my employment prospects," he added.
Although most social networking sites have links to a person's real world name, gaming sites have always used anonymous handles.
There have been a few rare cases of online gaming disputes spilling out into the real world, and users are mostly reluctant to reveal personal details, given that video games can sometimes elicit strong emotions.
Mr Brand said that one Blizzard employee posted his real name on the forums, saying that there was no risk to users, and the experiment went drastically wrong.
"Within five minutes, users had got hold of his telephone number, home address, photographs of him and a ton of other information," said Mr Brand
The post and topic has since been removed from the Blizzard forum.
On July 08 2010 05:56 moopie wrote: Really dumb idea. All they will really achieve by this is that a large portion of the 'honest' (productive) players/posters will be afraid/uneasy about posting in their forums, while the trolls will be making accounts with stupid fake names like Eric Cartman or whatnot and still posting dumb shit.
Pretty well. I guess they're too damned cheap to hire some moderators so they went for the cheaper route and decided to just use everyones RL names. [Insert Activision comment here]
excuse me bowdz ... maybe i'm wrong about that, but afaic playing SC2 does not involve posting on THEIR forums ... if they force me to post using my real name i just would react by ... not posting in their forums, but for example here at TL. Im pretty shure the guys here won't force you to reveal your name to the public.
On July 08 2010 05:53 twiggy wrote: I agree with some aspects of real.id, and disagree with others. (I also found the Hitler spoof hilarious, because it's true, soccer moms have been ruining many aspects of society. When I say soccer moms I don't really mean them, just the overprotective ones. They ruined hockey development in my area, as a personal example)
The whole real.id system is a grey area. There are as many pros as there are cons. Unfortunately, history shows cons are easily remembred. There is also the issue that most of the pros and cons are direct IF THEN counter arguments.
example:
Con: IF people have my first and last name THEN they can steal my id or track me down. Pro Counter: IF people have your first and last name THEN you have to be more responsible about yourself.
There are also many other types of argument-counterarguments:
Con Side Says: People can google my name and find out a bunch of information about me. Pro Side Rebuttal: It's illegal for anyone other then yourself to post personal phone and home addresses, as well as many other types of personal information, on any public source. You should have been doing regular checks online (and around your city) to make sure that you're safe (even before real.id comes around). Not doing so is you're own fault. If you didn't want people to see your pictures online, don't post them on public domains.
Pro Side Says: Now I can share my SC2 exploits on facebook. Con side rebuttal: Now everyone can see my facebook. Pro side counter-rebuttal: Lock your facebook to friends only and stop adding random 'friends'. You don't need 3000 friends.
Now these are all just examples. Slightly biased for pro (I think), because that's where I'm leaning. I tried making them neutral because I understand that there are valid reasons to be for and against the real.id system.
After the intial shock of the real.id system was over, I found that the biggest argument against the real.id system was 'employment fears'. Since a lot of people do understand that most of their personal information is safe if they proactively make sure they're rights weren't intruded upon (not by blizzard, but by organization posting it and can be found by googling their names).
If you really do have this 'employment fear', just ask yourself this VERY same question you should ask yourself about all your other hobby's, skills, and habits before job interviews: "How has being a gamer helped me on a personal, social, and professional level?" I can come up with a few answers for myself, except for the professional level. But that's not a bad thing. Employers just want to hear what gaming is to you, and how it affects you. Just like all your other hobbies. Confidence is key. (I know crackheads who don't get fired because they keep that out of the job. Just like all other hobbies should be left at home.)
In closing, the real.id system has it's advantages and disadvantages. It's biggest advantage is that it should put the responsibility of actions and words back onto the shoulders of everyone. It's biggest disadvantage is that some people are nervous about letting their name be known. Unfortunately for the nay sayers, privacy of anonymity is a new invention and most of our grandparents wouldn't understand the notion of not telling people your name. I believe blizzard is stepping in the right direction, even if it is a very rough (and large) step to begin with).
I believe it is a step that had to be taken eventually because anyonymity was hampering social development on the internet. And with the increase in use of the internet around the world on a daily basis, this kind of action couldn't be forced off for too much longer.
While many people disagree with me, that's their right. I believe Blizzard is moving in the right direction. Kudos.
I probably do have information posted about me online, but the issue here is that I don't want YOU to know about me. The probability of some random bloke searching up my name and finding me is small, the probability that he'll do something is smaller. However, the issue changes when I just mopped the floor on some guy with anger issues using some cheesy strategy. Know he has incentive to come and harass me. In this particular example, I did not post on the blizzard forums, but what if I start adding random friends from games because I thought they played well or first impressions were good? All it takes is one of these guys I added to have stalking issues. I thought blizzard wanted a better community, how would you expect me to add friends when each stranger I add now knows my real name? The same thing applies when I post on the blizzard forums. The internet is a crazy place.
Also, if I was an employer for some programming company, and I had 5 candidate resumes on my desk of equal value, you can bet that the first thing I'll do is search the names online. Now if I see one candidate actively posting online about how he thinks some characters on some videogame should have more hp, more attack, I instantly imagine him as some teen gamer that would jump ship at any time. I'm sorry, but that is just the stereotype. Wrong as that may be, I don't think the 50 year old interviewer would think twice before choosing someone else.
Due to issues about ID being required in case an account is compromised or if there is some technical issues, I think I'm going to use the name of my baby brother. I have all his ID, and he has no online persona.
Looks like it wasn't an april fools joke after all.
I can only say win win for me I knew blizzard wouldnt be able to handle my info with what they "promised" so all my b.net info is fake, my name is something like "askhdshgd ksahdsh" so have fun with that 1-0 to salvarias
The whole real.id system is a grey area. There are as many pros as there are cons.
totally not true. you're just saying things. superman is real. see, i just said something. doesn't make it true.
Con: IF people have my first and last name THEN they can steal my id or track me down. Pro Counter: IF people have your first and last name THEN you have to be more responsible about yourself.
ok, i erased everything else because despite what you say, this is the only pro you actually posted
and as I said before, if we are limited to 1 account anyways, why is realID necessary for this "pro" to be in effect?
I'll repeat what i said again because no one has answered it yet:
On July 08 2010 05:40 travis wrote: where is the benefit of this at? the only purpose I can even see for it is information collecting. Aren't they limiting us to only one account anyways? So what is the benefit, what's the justification?
Obviously nothing is being forced for SC2 and my reasons for canceling are as much about the current and planned state of Bnet 2.0, but the progression from the implementation of RealId in WoW two weeks ago to mandatory forum Id's in three weeks is just to suspect IMO. Blizzard's announced plans with Facebook and the fact that this idea made it to this point just confirms that this is not a company I want to support.
I just finished canceling my pre order for SC2. This is just a road I don't want to follow Blizzard down.
Yeah, it's this sort of thing that makes me wonder why anyone thinks this is a good idea - at all.
Is this sort of risk worth losing some forum trolls (which I still don't believe is the actual reason behind the change)? Why not just moderate the forums better. Some short term pain for a long-term message that trolling and nastiness won't be tolerated. It seems to work well here at TL.net
Lots of advocates of this change are saying that people who don't like it just need to be accountable for their actions; but as the link quoted above shows, you can't be accountable for other people's actions.
I guess there's always the option to not participate in that particular forum - I know I won't be. Still, seems like a big move in the wrong direction - it sets quite a precedent.
What´s funny about all of this ,is that i am going to play starcraft 2 without ANY people on my friendlist(maybe 1 or 2 IRL friend) and will not ever post in the forum making it the most antisocial expierience playing an online game in the history of online games. Oh the Irony
This is going to be great. I hope Blizzard does this. I can't wait to see all the problems they run into when people start getting hacked and stalked... I feel bad for the people who are going to have to suffer but I think this is one of those things that Blizzard is going to have to burn them selves on before they learn.
Reason #10987 Blizzard is out of touch with what their community wants.
k, i got it. That argument is valid in my opinion =) although i totally disagree with the conclusion. I think blizzard already has got you name and many personal details, and if they wanted to exploit them, noone could really do anything about that.
I also don't think their angle is something mysterious behind the scenes. There is just someone or more likely several decision makers in their consumer relations team who has actually made a bad decision.
And after what happened to Bashiok they really should rethink their PR plan, or the forums will be as blank as they can be. Noone reveals his real name in a games community for free. People are not or at least should not be that careless.
On July 08 2010 05:28 Saturnize wrote: I doubt anyone will commit a murder because they were cheesed by some n00b on sc2, but it is the principle of the matter that blizzard is ignoring. If i want to have my real name for everyone to see i should have the choice to do so.
Julien Barreaux, 20, told police he wanted to see his rival player "wiped out" after his character in the game Counter-Strike died in a virtual knife fight. A court in Cambrai, northern France, heard how Barreaux plotted revenge for seven months after the online "killing" last November. He then located the victim, named only as Mikhael, several miles from his home. When the man answered the door, he plunged a kitchen knife into his chest, missing his heart by less than an inch, a police officer told the court. He added: "Barreaux was arrested within the hour and told us he had wanted to see his rival wiped out for killing off his character." Barreaux was jailed for two years for causing grievous bodily harm, and ordered to undergo psychiatric tests and anger management therapy. Judge Alexiane Potel told him: "You are a menace to society. I am frankly terrified of the disproportionate reaction you could have if someone looked at you the wrong way in the street."
On July 08 2010 03:06 TheYango wrote: [quote] "Accountability" is not that straightforward when involved with something so easily misinterpreted as written word on the internet.
It's one thing to be accountable for things you actually said. It's another story when people take quotes out of context, can't see sarcastic tone as it's not expressed well in written form, or just plain misunderstand you.
But this is no different then real life when people can twist what you say. If it acts as impetus for people to put more thought into what they're saying, then it's really hard to argue against.
In real life you have a limited audience in front of you, you know who that audience is, you know exactly what you're sharing with whom. If you don't want someone to know something, you don't talk about it in his presence.
The internet is a much more powerful medium. On the internet, your audience is potentially every single person who has access to a computer. That includes your family, all your friends, your teachers, the people at work, your future employers. It also includes criminals, thieves, crazies, etc., etc.. Even better, your message doesn't fade over time. Are you sure you want everything you write today to be associated with you 20 years from now? Do you really want just anyone in the world to be able to associate your post with a name and an address if he doesn't like what you write?
Thinking this is going to turn the battle.net forums into a great forum where nobody posts unless they've got something important to say is naive. The general quality of posting will probably go up as a result, but having all real names exposed on a forum like that is just asking for trouble.
But everything you post are potentially read by everyone in the world already! The only difference is that now people can associate those posts with the real you, aka it adds accountability.
On July 08 2010 03:33 789 wrote:
On July 08 2010 03:12 Bibdy wrote: Why does accountability require your full name?
Why can't they just use any personalized unique identifier for your forum persona?
Seriously, this is just a damn online video game forum. Why is it so important that it needs to plaster something like your full name around in order to create that accountability? You would achieve the exact same effect of accountability by forcing people to post with a single identifier on the account. Whether its real or not, its still locked to that account and you can't change it without buying another one. Exact same effect as buying another account to generate a fake full name, only this time you did it to be a troll. Not to protect your identity.
One cannot fathom why they chose real name over any kind of unique identifier. They HAVE to know its important to a lot of people. They can't be THAT stupid.
Does anyone honestly think that it makes a difference to the CONTENT of your posts if you were forced to post everywhere on the internet with your current forumID on this site, than with your full name?
I'm willing to bet the content won't change. It only becomes a decision based on the desire to post at all.
This is a very good point that this guy has made more than a few times. Why go with real names when you could get the job done with a single unique identifier for that account. It brings accountibility without the privacy concerns - if you're in the habit of being a bad poster/troll people will come to recognize your name. It will also help the moderators. They don't need to worry about IPs, cd keys, or any of that jazz. They can just simply hand out the punishment to the account tied to that name.
It adds far less accountability, as the quote above notes people aren't afraid of what other people thinks about their ID but they are afraid of what they think about the real them.
Basically what happens is that they don't post things that they wouldn't want people to know, if the only punishment against flaming is that they are now unable to post people would still flame. If however their friends and family can potentially find out about this behavior then it is an extremely strong deterrent.
On July 08 2010 03:36 Graven wrote: And again, if there was no danger in being harrassed then there'd be no prevention of flaming/trolling to begin with, which is what was intended.
No, the danger is not about being harassed ffs, the danger is that someone you already know and cares about in real life finds out. Also the dangers of being harassed for posting on a forum will be no more than the danger of being harassed for walking down the street irl. Sure, more reads your posts, but there are also much more posts to be read. If you argue in a topic, there will be 20 others arguing in the same topic, why would he track down just you? The only reason celebrities have a problem with things like this is because they are known by everyone, just because people can see your name on a forum doesn't mean that they know you. It is just like how people on the street can see your face which is extremely intimate information but do anyone actually care about it?
Names are not a big deal and since it doesn't even come with a picture it is even less intimate than what millions already have on facebook which is open to all. I bet that a stalker or harasser would more likely seek out people who live near them on facebook with a picture they like rather than attacking a random bnet poster which will be one in a million of faceless names.
Except it only adds accountability for people with uncommon names. John Smith can post whatever the hell he pleases because there's a million others out there.
It isn't perfect but it is the strongest accountability you can have.
Do you really need to bring in that level of accountibility? It's the forum of a game. Do you really need to be held accountible in real life for the things you say there? If you think so, you need to take GAMES a little less seriously.
What's wrong with the accountibility of a unique name? Sure it isn't as much as tieing posts about a GAME to their real life repuation ... which I think is a step over the line. You have a habit of flaming and trolling? Your account gets banned from posting in any forum tied to it. You want to post in a forum again ... you have to buy a new game. That's far enough imo.
When you discuss with other people it is no longer just a game.
I think that this will revolutionize internet forums to the better. Why was facebook so successful? Because it made people use their real names. Real names makes people take it much more seriously, and it only works as long as everyone do it which is why Blizzard needs to do it this way.
If it becomes a huge problem they will most likely change it to only include WoW, but in WoW it will work perfectly. Hopefully in the end people will realize that it isn't such a huge deal to reveal your name on the net.
My name is Johan Strååt if anyone wonders. You can probably dig up a picture with that, but who cares really...
You are ignoring the fact that a gaming habit is something you want to hide from certain high level employers. Perhaps even more seriously this risks completely shutting out people who work with children/as teachers since they many of them cannot be seen socializing at the same places as the children they teach, no matter if it's online or offline. police officers will suddenly have to behave in a videogame setting as they do in RL etc etc.... All in all there are lots of reason why people might want their online and offline lives separate even ignoring the saftety concerns that most proponents seem to think are insignificant.
I'd say that when people realize how common it is for people to game the stigma about gaming will stop. The only reason the stigma is still there is because it is possible for people to hide that they game, once people realize that just about every guy below the age of 30 games now and then it should stop, but since people are afraid of talking about it that isn't common knowledge.
On July 08 2010 04:40 Razor[cF] wrote: Find me one post where a female is happy about the changes. At least where the girl is not a gamerwhore.
Gamerwhore - A female player who likes the attention of being female to supplement the lack of self esteem in real life.
This girl sure ain't happy:
how much u wanna bet klockan either
1.) doesnt watch this
or
2.) watches it but doesn't acknowledge the dozen+ great points it makes
(i know u werent replying to klockan but that's who im singling out because i already know he is actually an intelligent person)
She seems paranoid, not daring to speak in team speak just because she is afraid of people knowing that she is a female. And then in the end she starts to rant about a ton of random conspiracy theories, she seems to be very irrational.
Of course there are points that are of concern, but everybody seems to blow it all out of proportion. An extremely huge amount of people use facebook and they survived, this will not be even close as revealing as facebook is. Also Blizzard could add privacy options to disallow anyone who isn't a wow/sc2 player from viewing their posts, thus in an instant fixing all issues relating to your work or so.
No. You are severely wrong to think she is mistaken. As somebody who has run a guild for 4-years and played WoW for 5-years, she is completely valid in her concerns. You are being dreadfully unrealistic.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/IzHrJ.png)
I knew blizzard wouldnt be able to handle my info with what they "promised" so all my b.net info is fake, my name is something like "askhdshgd ksahdsh" so have fun with that 
