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Terran MMM and Mech
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Mimic
Russian Federation76 Posts
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
Mind you, this can still be effective if for some reason your opponent doesn't see it coming or something, but then you're relying on him making that mistake. EDIT: If you instead just augment your bio with some tanks/thors that's a completely different thing. | ||
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Mimic
Russian Federation76 Posts
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
As was mentioned, switching techs also means A LOT of wasted resources (buildings and researches) and time. | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On June 19 2010 05:07 Mimic wrote: I have been playing sc2 for about a month and been crawling around there forums for days and i have seen so far 2 main terran strategies. MMM (Marines, mauraders medivace) or a tech turtle and so far it seems that people pick one and play that way through whole game. I am no pro by any means however it seems that a more fluid strategy would be better no? i start out with a 2-3 rax for rines and mar and play with that but at some point i do switch to almost full mech besides keeping marauders. maybe i just have been here logn enough but it seems that fluidity is much more important. since both mech and mmm have a very defined time limit of succesful use. any thoughts? Zerg is the race that gets to think this way, terran is about methodically building up your tech and production centers along a specific path. That's the entire race philosophy and you're trying to buck the trend which is admirable but misguided. Mixing in mech later with your bio is great and fine but a major tech switch as terran is a trick and puts you behind if they scout or predict it, as it is not efficient. | ||
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DanielD
United States192 Posts
TvZ for an example: mauraders and hellions are both great meatshields for tanks, but hellion suck vs roaches and mauraders arent cost efffective vs hydra plus suck vs lings. Thors are good vers muta but against mass muta or BLs they are balls, vikings are good vs BLs but suck vs muta so you want marines against muta, and marines are good dps vs hydra ling bling as well. So you can see that while straight mech certainly has counters to everything Z has, to be really effective you're going to want bio mixed in. Of course it's harder to get the upgrades this way, but I think the ability to much more quickly adjust to what your opponent is doing is worth it. Sure, thors counter muta, but they take FOR-FUCKING-EVER to build. Yes, tanks are good vs roaches, but again, they take FOR EVER to build. If you find yourself lacking anything but hellions, you're going to be on the back foot until you get the units you need if you are going pure mech off of 4-6 facts. But if you have 2-3 facts and 2-3 rax, you can add-on switch and pump mauraders or marines much faster than you can get the necessary mech units out. Adding bio also gives you mobility, especially if you manage to squeeze out just 2 medvacs (I know, I know, mech is gas heavy, but you can spare 200). The strength of the ability to control a whole region of the map and still put mad hurt on out-of-the-way expos cannot be understated, and 8 mauraders can kill a whole hellofa lot of buildings in short order. | ||
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FC.Strike
United States621 Posts
Now that's not speaking anything of whether or not such a build is solid, rather just that you could probably make it work. Whether or not it's actually solid isn't something you theorycraft - it's something you figure out through lots of testing. | ||
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Mimic
Russian Federation76 Posts
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FC.Strike
United States621 Posts
On June 19 2010 06:36 Mimic wrote: it seems you gusy are thinking of a completely radical change. this chance probably lasts for 10-20 mins for infastructure. its not very sudden however from my experience it has given me some seriouse firepower. however i have to point out right now that vs zerg mutalisks eat vikings and that the only air besides thors. and thats the only problem i have encountered. If you think that opening light bio and then slowly transitioning into mech over the course of a long game is the best way to do it, then by all means try it. Don't let us stop you. We can sit here and theory craft from now until forever, but really most ideas can be made to work with enough tweaking and experimenting. Believe in yourself and this idea that you think is good. Too often players try to convince each other why the current builds are better when in reality the Beta is a constantly changing and progressing cauldron of strategy. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
IME, there's no reason to every do a full switch TvP or TvZ. MMM is always effective against P and mech is always effective against Z. Mixing up bio with mech is fine (eg tanks with MM), but I can't think of a scenario where a full tech switch for T makes sense. | ||
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Musgo
Portugal4 Posts
for example... if your opponent goes roach its best to use MMM due to the attack bonus that marauders have against armored units like the roach. if your opponent goes for example small light units like the zergling its a good strategy to use mech (siege and thor), but keep in ming that zergling will eat this kind of mech for breakfast so have a good front line. | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
Personally I play more with lategame in mind TvP, and if it gets really late colossus(+HT's you might miss with EMP) just slaugther the marine part of your bio ball and he usually snipes my medivacs with feedback -.o marauders are ALWAYS great meatshields for the rest of your army tho... it just sucks with 3 different unit upgrades. | ||
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FC.Strike
United States621 Posts
On June 19 2010 07:01 Musgo wrote: i think that people should change their strategy according in what the opponent is doing. for example... if your opponent goes roach its best to use MMM due to the attack bonus that marauders have against armored units like the roach. if your opponent goes for example small light units like the zergling its a good strategy to use mech (siege and thor), but keep in ming that zergling will eat this kind of mech for breakfast so have a good front line. Yes and no. Starcraft 2 is a game of imperfect information. Players who develop strategies designed specifically to counter whatever their opponents are doing will end up feeling like the game is luck based in cases where it's impossible to scout. Instead players should opt for robust strategies which are carefully designed to counter all possible things the opponent could be doing. Any scouting information received will then refine the unit composition or signal subtle changes which should be made. By playing the my-strategy-is-based-on-his-strategy game, you'll be extremely vulnerable to tech switches and counter scouting, which does not make for good play. | ||
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Mimic
Russian Federation76 Posts
On June 19 2010 07:01 Musgo wrote: i think that people should change their strategy according in what the opponent is doing. for example... if your opponent goes roach its best to use MMM due to the attack bonus that marauders have against armored units like the roach. if your opponent goes for example small light units like the zergling its a good strategy to use mech (siege and thor), but keep in ming that zergling will eat this kind of mech for breakfast so have a good front line. you know you can think about this and spin it 2 diffrent ways. if you are evolving to his strategy there are 2 outcomes. either 1 he thinks his strategy and unit comp right now is good and he is winning. or his unit comp is vulnerable and he needs to switch too. with this very basic thought process sc2 would be a LONG game... | ||
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tfmdjeff
United States170 Posts
If you love the idea of quick tech switches, pick up zerg. Zerg only have to build one building to have access to a unit that they can proceed to produce quickly from their hatcheries. That's actually one of the reasons I play zerg: for the ability to be really unpredictable. Really, seeing as you don't know too much about the mechanics of the game yet, my suggestion to you is always go mech. It's the easiest strategy in the world and you'll win way more games than you deserve to with it. | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
It looks really hard to execute especially in the mid game since you haven't amassed a lot of units to defend your base but if your Z opponent goes for a cute ling/muta build I think it gets raped at late game. actually re watched it man rAndy did a good job it's just that the viking/banshee style is pretty strong :D | ||
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Kikuichimonji
United States102 Posts
IME, there's no reason to every do a full switch TvP or TvZ. MMM is always effective against P and mech is always effective against Z. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On June 19 2010 13:57 Licmyobelisk wrote: If you want a better strategy try this one, this is like the new Sair/Reaver combo except it's terran viking and banshee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAiQOh41gio It looks really hard to execute especially in the mid game since you haven't amassed a lot of units to defend your base but if your Z opponent goes for a cute ling/muta build I think it gets raped at late game. actually re watched it man rAndy did a good job it's just that the viking/banshee style is pretty strong :D actually one fungal growth or two would've killed that strategy cold. Get mass-muta ball, fungal growth vikings disallowing them to kite the muta's. After that its a quick and painful death for the banshee's. And I'm not sure if terran has a very viable way of tech switching. Their strength comes from the robust units that are efficient against certain units. Obviously it is possible but way harder to pull off as terran. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On June 19 2010 06:05 DanielD wrote: mauraders arent cost efffective vs hydra Wrong. They are, you can go and test it. The main reason not to switch tech is upgrades. And also there are very few variations of pure MMM. At some point you pretty much always need some tech: thors for range vs muta, tanks for roach hydra, vikings vs BLs | ||
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[CeSU]cmdr_cuts
Canada2 Posts
If you tech right, you can have 2 vikings out before they have any mutas in TvZ. Mostly though, just scout. If they go muta, go marines, thors, and tanks. Roaches, marauders. I never really get M'n'M'n'M because mass roach, muta-baneling owns it as well as colossus and templars (dark or high) for protoss and siegetank for terran. I essentially go M'n'M'n'M for two player maps or of I scout them right away and can punish thier build. On 4 player maps, if I don't scout them first I go straight for factory tech and vikings. For SC2 terran it is important to remember that they made the terran army harass based. Healing medivacs, and two early game units made explicitly to kill workers and light units, plus the banshee and the viking ground form seem a little too weak for main line battle units. The healing medivac was obviously made for marine-marauder drops. Also ghosts seem to be like a terran dark templar and can be used in conjunction with cloak to kill off workers of protoss and zerg with incredible ease. Finally, terran has always been a "one push win or bust" race in earnest. Harassment will only take you so far. Once your first and especially your second push is stopped, you are most likely dead anyway. If you don't die, you are probably a pretty good player. Or you are on a very low tier playing against people with no understanding of the phrase "counter attack" | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
A great tvp example(but not really likely) is if a t is opening mass maruders and medivacs, so the z masses speed lings to counter. After you trade armies you mass helions while he still thinks your going maruders. And your helions>speedlings. This is just a very simple hypothetical but the same metagame progresses through all aspects and stages of the game. My final advice would be that it would be best to learn how to play solid and earn longterm wins with both strategies. Then during a longer macro game try switching, or even switching again and see the outcome. This could take 100 games to figure when it is in your best interest to tech switch. Most importantly in this stage of learning take the extra few minutes and watch your replay and see WHY you lost. Did you have poor macro? Did you not have enough rax/facts at the right time to properly export your resources? Did you upgrade the units BEFORE the tech switch? Did your opponent anticipate this tech switch and respond? Did you even lose because of poor unit composition, or was it because of other factors? These basics concepts stem from BW and almost everyother RTS. So try to learn the basics(what unit > enemy units) and proper mechanics and macro. The experiment on shaping a style of your play. GG | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
I'm currently on the Smash and Grab mission in the campaign, and I can't quite figure out the right composition. | ||
Nyovne
Netherlands19135 Posts
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