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Vexx
United States462 Posts
Your post and your biased pictures can be cleaned up with two words: private channels. Clans have vent and websites so in game chat rooms are pointless? Either you're a troll or a fucking idiot. I believe the latter is a prerequisite for the former though so it may be both. | ||
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On May 28 2010 13:19 oBlade wrote: You also find some people being social retards. That's just how some people are. Where's the pic of op awesomechannel? clan hugefuckingballers? I would have looked there if I had known that's where the cool people go to talk about the Bisu Build.  Then again, that's kind of the point, isn't it? If everyone knew about Clan HugeFuckingBalls then that would just be the next place to be targeted by the spam bots and social retards. On May 28 2010 13:19 oBlade wrote: This is how you find games on iCCup. That's what the ladder channels are for. iCCup doesn't have a matchmaking system. This is largely not relevant for Battle.net 2.0 because it has a modern matchmaking system. Agreed. On May 28 2010 13:19 oBlade wrote:How about chat channels a la IRC? Possible. Joining a channel in IRC isn't compulsery, yet you're still able to carry on private communications even if you're not actually in any channel, and IRC has a few useful features besides that would be helpful. Perhaps suggesting this to Blizzard? On May 28 2010 13:19 MyHeroNoob wrote: just join another channel? Which one? Which ones are different, and how do I find out about them? Even if I'm so lucky to get out, what about everyone who's left behind? The system just doesn't work, and avoiding the flaws and pretending they don't exist isn't the solution. On May 28 2010 13:22 oBlade wrote: Sure. I don't play Starcraft with Facebook friends. If you do, great. It's great to play Starcraft with people you know in real life. You can even invite them over for a LAN pa- I don't add my e-friends to Facebook. I ask you to explain what's so horribly terribley awful about Facebook integration and all you can come up with is "I don't use it", and some kind of semi-concealed jab at LAN functionality. Well, you've certainly got me convinced. Down with helpful-not-harmful features!!1! On May 28 2010 13:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I read the original post, but I still think it's ridiculous that we aren't going to have channels when the game gets launched (I have no problem with not having channels in the beta) because channels got spammed. I met all the time with friends in channels. And if some spammer came into our channel, we kicked him out. And if we couldn't, we moved to a new channel. Duh? Go make a private channel... it's not that hard. You're just sticking your head in the sand. The problem is still out there, you're just pretending it isn't because you've run away from it. On May 28 2010 13:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This completely destroys the novelty of the social aspect of SC2. You're going to only team up with people on your friends list... what if they're not on? Where do you hang out (besides TL of course)? What if you don't feel like adding every single person you've ever met to a friends list, through e-mail addresses and that nonsense? 99% of the games I play are with what my friends and I call "randoms" anyway. If they aren't on I play with randoms, until they do get online. All I have to do is pick an interesting sounding custom game or go ladder. Is playing against strangers you meet in-game much different than strangers you've recruited from a chat channel? On May 28 2010 13:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Channels were incredibly worthwhile. Friends and clans and teams meet up in channels. If ignoring (or destroying) spambots is really too hard for the SC2 creators to do, then I think that's kinda sad. Is this implying that you can do it? Send your resume to Blizzard. I'm sure they'll hire you in a heartbeat. On May 28 2010 13:24 Motiva wrote: I disagree completely and I would trade in every single arbitrary feature from The entire Ladder to friends lists for Chat Channels without hesitation. Is this nostalgia talking, or some genuine love for chat channels for reasons you haven't explained yet? | ||
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Ai.Cola
Germany236 Posts
You don't know anyone who finds a game by spamming 1v1 D Desti? Have you been to a ladder channel on iCCup? Yes i have. it is 20 people spamming "dest D+ gogogo you make, /w me" etc. and 4-5 people whispering you "hi, gogo game?" instead of trying to whisper one of these people and play a game with them I simply open a game myself or just join one of the many games that are opened. why should I look for an opponent in the channel? | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
You have identified the negative points of chat channels. But what about the positive points? Did you get a sense of community in those screenshots I posted? How about any people you'd be interested in meeting? Did you see any discussions taking place at all? Please be realisitic and take a look at chat channels as they are, not as we remember them or as they would be in a perfect world. At the moment, they are neither. Are you fucking serious? The screen shots you posted are evidence of chat channels not having interesting discussion or people? Are your screen shots supposed to erase all of my memories of the huge amount of time I spent chatcrafting over the last 10 years on battlenet, the 4 people I have met IRL that I met online, and many other people that I have known for 10 years only online and consider friends. My mind is blown at the stupidity of using screen shots prove to people who have used the battle.net channels since the days of diablo 1 that they suck. I am pretty sure we are all aware of the spambots and other bad things, but that certainly doesn't outweigh all the positives. | ||
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Karok
Netherlands142 Posts
Custom channels are GOOD, you can moderate them, you can boot spammers heck you could even just put a key on it just like IRC. These channels are awesome to create a community spirit, Imagine a TL-channel, channels for your own clan a channel for your RL friends, awesome! lots of people good chance of finding at least a couple of people online at whatever time you happen to want to play, a good place to discuss stuff, or even find yourself a training partner. I am FAR far away from being a competitive SC(2) player but even a blind man can see that a function as simple as well implemented communication channels are the heart of any community. As the beta is now, SC2 has the community feeling comparable to living on the north pole. You can argue that implementing facebook did not take away too much time of the blizzard devs, but even if that only cost 1-2 days, it are still days better spent on any other aspect of the game or bnet itself. All the facebook crap does is add friends for you because apparently you're too lazy to just contact them yourself or add them yourself. God how I hate this web 2.0 cancer spread through games nowadays :/ I almost forgot: OP basing his opinion on chat channels on bnet 1.0 solely on public channels is like basing your opinion of the entire internet solely on 4chan. That is all. | ||
Falling
Canada11349 Posts
On May 28 2010 13:15 DanceDance wrote: You have identified the negative points of chat channels. But what about the positive points? i.e Good things about channels: 1) A sense of community. 2) Great for clan communication 3) Great for communication with friends 4) A good way for keeping in touch 5) A way for meeting new people 6) A good medium for organizing tournaments 7) More power to the community (i.e private channels) 8) Great for both one on one discussions and large discussions 9) Channels give life to B.Net The list goes on... Maybe this is the case for those that joined in the early years of SCBW, but the OP describes my experience with chat channels perfectly. (I having joined in the last couple years.) The only life I see on the ICCUP channels is spammers posting meaningless garbage. No sense of community from this, just clutter to ignore. I just wish that Blizzard would actually describe what they had in mind. Theoretically, it could calm a lot of people down if they knew what was 'better than chat channels.' But who am I kidding? This is TL and everybody is on the verge of a heart attack with every patch... if Blizzard actually described what they were doing, we'd just critique it to pieces based on little information and collectively blow a fuse :S | ||
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tenpromicro
United States119 Posts
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On May 28 2010 13:26 DanceDance wrote: Did you get a sense of community in those screenshots I posted? No, because those screenshots are a biased view of chat channels. How about any people you'd be interested in meeting? I met my best online friend via chat channels. 5 years later, we still game together. Did you see any discussions taking place at all No, because those screenshots are a biased view of chat channels. Hey would you like to add me as a friend on Battle Net? You just have to give me your email so I can add you. I think that's a much better alternative, don't you? You can trust people with your email address, right? Why is everyone willfully denying that at every point chat channels are brought up, Blizzard has responded with "We're working on it" and not with "Give out your email to everybody, what you have in beta is what you'll be stuck with"? People who believe that what we have now IN THE BETA is what we'll have after launch are deluding themselves. On May 28 2010 13:30 mrdx wrote: To OP: you have valid points, except one thing, you missed one word public. All the drawbacks of channels you said were from public channels. With private channels and moderated channels it's a totally different story. Except that private channels are private. How do I know about them? How do I gain access? What if I don't know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy? Am I to be doomed to public chat channels? That isn't a solution. | ||
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
Then again, that's kind of the point, isn't it? If everyone knew about Clan HugeFuckingBalls then that would just be the next place to be targeted by the spam bots and social retards. Well, a good private chatroom always has good moderation that keeps that kind of stuff out. A lot of people dislike Facebook integration because, now that adding friends via screenname is disabled, in order to add a friend you must add them on Facebook, thereby giving out private information (email, name, etc.). Of course, you can always right click their name to add them without that, but Blizzard has obfuscated the once easy process of /f a. Plus, I don't even know if you can right-click add unless you see them in a game lobby or a match history (can you even add them from private chat or ladder?) | ||
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On May 28 2010 13:34 Vexx wrote: The threads just get dumber and dumber. When you're forced to spam your own thread to try to make your point it's time to realize that your OP was stupid as hell. Your post and your biased pictures can be cleaned up with two words: private channels. Clans have vent and websites so in game chat rooms are pointless? Either you're a troll or a fucking idiot. I believe the latter is a prerequisite for the former though so it may be both. Thank you for your wise insights in this constructive post.  On May 28 2010 13:37 Bosu wrote: Are you fucking serious? The screen shots you posted are evidence of chat channels not having interesting discussion or people? Are your screen shots supposed to erase all of my memories of the huge amount of time I spent chatcrafting over the last 10 years on battlenet, the 4 people I have met IRL that I met online, and many other people that I have known for 10 years only online and consider friends. My mind is blown at the stupidity of using screen shots prove chat rooms suck. Your milage may vary, but you don't really think that your experience is par, do you? The screenshots I've posted are an honest view at what chat channels are like in this day and age from the average battle.net user. If you have great memories back from 1998 then great, I do too! But what it was back that isn't what we have now. If you're lucky enough to have a private/clan channel with a bunch of cool people, then great, and I'm happy for you! But most people don't have these luxuries. | ||
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Karok
Netherlands142 Posts
Except that private channels are private. How do I know about them? How do I gain access? What if I don't know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy? Am I to be doomed to public chat channels? That isn't a solution. Been on IRC before? I assume you haven't. Here's how IRC works: You have a public channel, lets call it #hi Now #hi has a couple of mods. Some tard drops into #hi and starts acting like.. well like a tard. mods of #hi ban his ass from that channel. Normal people in #hi can commence discussion on why facebook really is terribad. | ||
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Kinslayer
United States129 Posts
Well, what happens to all the players not in clans? All the players that are not savvy enough to fix the issue? They are just SOL and have nothing but spam to deal with? Why in the world would Blizzard want that?! Why put something in the game that has been proven as broken and needs player intervention to work? Stop thinking about the specific cases and think about the experience for every single player that will buy this game. That is how Blizzard has to think. | ||
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RageOverdose
United States690 Posts
On May 28 2010 13:15 DanceDance wrote: You have identified the negative points of chat channels. But what about the positive points? i.e Good things about channels: 1) A sense of community. 2) Great for clan communication 3) Great for communication with friends 6) A good medium for organizing tournaments 8) Great for both one on one discussions and large discussions The list goes on... This is a bloated list and only serves to make your opinion a bit more biased, I think. Many of these can be condensed, and only serves to make channels seem better with quantity. In fact, "sense of community" covers a lot of those things. I probably could've condensed it a slight more, but I didn't want to take your point away too much. I have marked out everything I felt to be redundant or too abstract to be good for this discussion, which is more concrete and realistic in nature. Also, I doubt the list goes on. Could you please provide more? Look, I agree there is a great communal aspect to chat channels, but I feel people are over exaggerating them. Private channels you have to be invited to? Just use Ventrilo. That is better, in my opinion, because you can use them before and after you log in, and all the while you are logged in. The private channel argument seems kind of unnecessary because the way that everything is handled in Bnet 2.0 is privately. Ventrilo, TeamSpeak (does that thing even get used anymore?), IRC, instant messengers, forums... Also, OP is talking about chat channels in a more universal sense, thinking about the players that are casual SC players, or don't really get into the whole competitive scene. On May 28 2010 13:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I read the original post, but I still think it's ridiculous that we aren't going to have channels when the game gets launched (I have no problem with not having channels in the beta) because channels got spammed. I met all the time with friends in channels. And if some spammer came into our channel, we kicked him out. And if we couldn't, we moved to a new channel. Duh? Go make a private channel... it's not that hard. So, inconvenience yourself to get what you want with chat channels? Then what is wrong with the inconvenience of using third party software? | ||
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44312 Posts
You're just sticking your head in the sand. The problem is still out there, you're just pretending it isn't because you've run away from it. I'm not running away from it. Blizzard is running away from the spam problem by eliminating channels. The channels I go in when I play Brood War don't have spam. 99% of the games I play are with what my friends and I call "randoms" anyway. If they aren't on I play with randoms, until they do get online. All I have to do is pick an interesting sounding custom game or go ladder. Is playing against strangers you meet in-game much different than strangers you've recruited from a chat channel? We call them "pubs" (public players) and yes, it IS pretty different, because we know that everyone in our channel is good. We set up private games where only people in our channel play (called "innys"), because we KNOW that we'll have an epic match and not be paired up with some noob. If I feel like playing a 3v3, I'd rather not randomly get paired up with some guy who's never played before, and some guy who has a 20% win ratio. I'd rather play with 2 players at my level, against 3 players at my level. And this can be easily arranged through channels. Is this implying that you can do it? No, it's not. And so I repeat (because your question is irrelevant): Channels were incredibly worthwhile. Friends and clans and teams meet up in channels. If ignoring (or destroying) spambots is really too hard for the SC2 creators to do, then I think that's kinda sad. Everyone here is making completely valid points. The fact that you searched and found a few channels that have spam on them and said "Look! There's spam everywhere! We should have NO channels because they have no function other than to provide useless spam!" is ridiculous. | ||
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Rantech
Chile527 Posts
What i, and the vast mayority of users want back, are the private channels, wich were used to meet with a group of friends, for tournamentes, for clan wars, nation wars, etc.. | ||
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Accer
Korea (South)319 Posts
On May 28 2010 13:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Channels were incredibly worthwhile. Friends and clans and teams meet up in channels. If ignoring (or destroying) spambots is really too hard for the SC2 creators to do, then I think that's kinda sad. Is this implying that you can do it? Send your resume to Blizzard. I'm sure they'll hire you in a heartbeat. I just want to add that this line of reasoning is horrible. You do not have to be able to "do something" in order to critique it, just because I can't build a boat doesn't mean I can't complain when my brand new boat has a hole in it. | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
On May 28 2010 12:54 ComradeDover wrote: Is it any different on ICCup? Take a step back. Log onto ICCup and read the chat going on in the channel. How much of it is comprised of "D-/D/D+ DESTI GOGO" spammed over and over and over again? Are your experiences really so different? Log onto to Battle.net 1.0 and pop into any old channel. What do you see? Yeah it is different. I regularly talk for hours with my friends (who I don't know in real life because they live in various cities/areas around australia and this country is huge) in our clan channel. That's what you're not factoring in. Private channels vs the public ones. Also, people asking each other for games in the public channel isn't bad either. Lastly the US channel you quoted looked ok to me. I could randomly log on and find absolute crap in a public channel and screen-shot it. Or I could screen-shot people having a normal conversation which happens much of the time as well. Lastly, you say the chat system simply isn't working. If I haven't convinced you otherwise, I'd still point to it being better than nothing. On a side note, why is everyone up in arms over the Facebook "integration"? Is it really so horrible? As far as I can tell all it does is look through your Facebook and add people on battle.net who are already your friends on Facebook. Yet every time it's mentioned it seems like people are under the impression that Battle.net will be posting things to your Facebook or this is is some kind of huge privacy concern. Since when is getting in contact with people you're already in contact with a privacy concern? This is a fine feature with no downsides, and it's idiotic to invent issues or make over-the-top hyperbolic claims about how StarCraft II is becoming Farmville. Importing friends? Populating my friends list? Heaven forbid! Well here's a valid reason why people don't like it. My friend said to me last night on the facebook subject that he: 1. Didnt want people he played starcraft II with to have access to his personal information located on his fb page. 2. He didn't necessarily wish to advertise to his actual friends on fb that he plays sc2. Personally I don't much care about 2 but despite being an open guy 1 is fairly irritating. Basically it's like this: If I want to add people to facebook I will. If I want to have a random game and just be 'online friends' with someone over battlenet I will. But those two will often not be interchangable. I hope this clears up for you why the majority strongly desire channels to be a feature of sc2 and why people aren't thrilled about this facebook innovation. EDIT: I notice you say most clan channels are private. Anyone can join mine anytime they like (provided someone is in there) But then why would that be a problem as joining a channel when people aren't there is pointless. Plus you know, you could also ask to join that clan if you wanted to  . | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
Sure.. there's IRC.. there's skype.. there's vent.. there's teamliquid.net forums... but really. Are you going to expect all 128 to have an account on either or? Its fine if you don't want chat channels. But I for one would find organizing a tournament much easier if all I had to do was post: 32-man tournament 1st Prize: 50$ MEET AT CHANNEL PARAMORE'S HOUSE @ 10:00 EST This is alot better than. Ok, everybody spam their ID's on this thread... and I will add each and every one of you before the tournament. Yes, even if you are Day9 himself, you have to put your real-life e-mail address so that 50 million noobs can e-mail your real-life account and add you on MSN. But b/c we have no chat channels... we have to post e-mails in thread. They got rid of identifiers so thats all we have to do. Don't bother PMing me b/c I'm sure my inbox doesn't hold 128 messages. Even if it did, I wouldn't go through all of them. That was a mouthful. I hope I have changed your mind. Like I said, you might not have found a use for them. Thats fine. Don't drag us all down with you just because you can't find a use for them. Nothing wrong with it being there and you not using it. Its for other people. I also don't like the idea of inviting 8 people to a "Party" just to all talk on the same 4x4 inch chat window... Thats lame and the window is way too small for that. | ||
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RageOverdose
United States690 Posts
On May 28 2010 13:44 zerglingsfolife wrote: This is one of the most biased opening posts and I'm kind of surprised it's still up. As nearly everyone has pointed out already, private chat channels are what people miss. You took some pictures of spam in public chat channels and said that all channels are bad and full of spam. Strawman fallacy. No, he stated that it was common for the general user and that a lot of users don't get to experience the wonder of chat channels when they really shine. Most of what they get is spam, and it serves to make the functionality useless as a result. All the chat channels may serve to them is a way to read what their friends whisper to them, and that functionality still exists in 2.0. Hell, you sometimes even get spammed in games you join, at least in the main BW gateways as well as in Diablo 2 (I think...). | ||
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