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On May 28 2010 13:49 Karok wrote:Show nested quote +
Of course I've been on IRC. But assume that I've just bought SC2 and I'm logging on for the first time. How do I know to go to #hi? How do I know that a place like #hi even exists, if all I see is the trash that is present in public channels?
/list (or whatever the IRC command was to list all public channels)
Public channels? Like what we have now? -.-"
On May 28 2010 13:54 Superiorwolf wrote:Show nested quote +Facebook integration is a feature. And there's nothing wrong with the feature. I have a few IRL (Which means Facebook) friends who I plan to play a lot of SC2 with. This will only make it that much easier to find them.
It seems to me that people dislike Facebook integration for reasons entirely outside of Facebook intergration, which is fucking silly. I never said I disliked the Facebook integration. It is definitely useful for many, including myself (I've met at least 50 people that I've known online in real life). However, the fact is, Facebook integration cannot replace the simple efficiency of the old /f a and /f l. If Facebook supplement the basic, fundamental features of friend adding, then that's great. But if they're trying to replace friend adding in order to use Facebook only, that is unacceptable.
That's a big "if". Do you have some kind of insight that I don't? Where did they say they're replacing anything with Facebook integration? All signs point to it being just a supplement.
On May 28 2010 13:54 Mindcrime wrote:
guys, the baby has to go
the water is dirty
On May 28 2010 13:55 Beasttwo wrote:
comradedover LOLUMAD?
Thank you both for your insights in these wonderfully constructive posts. 
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Canada11349 Posts
On May 28 2010 13:58 hoborg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 13:52 Falling wrote:
how the heck do you know where the private channels are? Forums IRC People spamming their channel in the public channels You play someone on ladder and they invite you You see someone with a cheerful during Proleague that says "Come to op SomeKoreanBS on USWest!!!" OR, you make your own, for your own group of friends. Imagine WoW without guild chat. Boring.
Right, but quite frankly spammers and strangers I'm probably not going to join- basically I'd make one for my friends and I didn't know how. I'm not saying the capability is out there. It's simply that the process is obscure to the newcomer. (Whether the new method makes this more obvious or comes up with something different, I don't know. Like I said, I wish Blizzard would detail what they had in mind to replace chat channels. It might save us a lot of angst. Or not as is more likely.)
But even still, this still doesn't deal with the problem that is the current state of public chat channels. Superiorwolf can cast doubt on the validity of the pictures, but I've never seen any different. Maybe if you hang around enough something interesting comes up, but I have better things to do then wade through spam.
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Stop making excuses for blizzard, how hard can it be to create a super bot to own all other bots and ban cd keys?
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Come on ComradeDover give me your email so I can add you as a friend on Battle Net. You could totally trust me with it. It's a much better friend system!
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Blizzard's haphazarf way of screwing with sc2 has made me lost faith in blizzard
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Aren't they coming back, just not in Beta?
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The "public" channels I mention would be player-moderated channels that are open for public.
So you could have:
#genericglobalblizzchannel <- this is unmoderated and a pile of poo on bnet1.0
#Team-Liquid <- this is a player-moderated channel on bnet 2.0 the moderators get their mod power for that specific channel linked to their account so they get their mod power everytime they rejoin. The mods have the power to grant someone else mod powers and take them away aswell as to kick, temp-ban and perm-ban someone. This channel is listed in the /list and everyone can see and join it.
#Team-Liquid-SomeTourney <- This is another player-moderated channel on bnet2.0 but this one is private. Players can be invited into the channel by a mod and it's closed off from public.
see, its not that hard.
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ComradeDover:
That is NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying the old system is broken. Blizzard has said the same in interviews. Great. I'm saying that we need something new. Blizzard has said the same in interviews. Great.
Old system: Channels, some of which had spam.
New system: No channels at all.
That's NOT something *new*. That's a step backwards. I agree with you and Blizzard that it would be nice to fix the fact that there was spam in channels. The solution is not to let the spammers win by shutting down channels and only allowing this Facebook/ friend list nonsense.
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On May 28 2010 14:09 TriniMasta[wD] wrote:
Aren't they coming back, just not in Beta?
Read the OP; apparently channels are never coming back.... even after the release of SC2.
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Maybe blizzard should've increased channel supply to 2. People would stop spamming them then!
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On May 28 2010 13:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The channels I go in when I play Brood War don't have spam.
I believe this is a crucial part of the point that OP is trying to make. What channel do you even go to? How do I find out about these channels? What if I also want to join, but I'm a newbie who doesn't know any of these places? During my years on broodwar, I hung out in OP SEN (a map making channel) and occasionally on LUE (more anons). But if I never found out about staredit.net and joined their forums, I would be pretty much stuck on spam-infested public channels. It seems that it's pretty crucial to "find out" about the good channels, and simply enabling private channels in SC2 does absolutely nothing in aiding the process of "finding out" places to be.
Personally, I'm indifferent to the channel status on SC2--I have a decent number of IRL friends that I consistently play with, so I'm not interested in branching out on SC2 bnet. As such, while I do wish there were some magic wand that Blizzard could wave to fix channels, I do not have much of an idea regarding how to improve channels; throughout this thread, though, I am more inclined to agree with the OP, if only due to the fact that his logic and arguments seem much more coherent and organized to me.
On May 28 2010 14:11 Karok wrote:
The "public" channels I mention would be player-moderated channels that are open for public.
So you could have:
#genericglobalblizzchannel <- this is unmoderated and a pile of poo on bnet1.0
#Team-Liquid <- this is a player-moderated channel on bnet 2.0 the moderators get their mod power...
(Preface: the following applies regardless of IRC or SC2bnet) That's great and all, and I believe it can certainly be beneficial to the starcraft community. However, this isn't so much a way to fix the spam channel problem the "general masses" of bnet. A good number of SC2 players could be new to the scene--people who have never played broodwar, have never even heard of TeamLiquid, etc. StarCraft would either have to advertise these channels (they wouldn't be private anymore), or new players would not know to access them. Your solution could work, but would need to be combined with something of an "outreach" effort (to familiarise newer players with these communities)--and this is yet to be the stage that Blizzard development for SC2 is at.
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On May 28 2010 14:11 Karok wrote:
#Team-Liquid <- this is a player-moderated channel on bnet 2.0 the moderators get their mod power for that specific channel linked to their account so they get their mod power everytime they rejoin. The mods have the power to grant someone else mod powers and take them away aswell as to kick, temp-ban and perm-ban someone. This channel is listed in the /list and everyone can see and join it.
And modding a channel would be a lot easier on battle.net 2.0 when every player has to pay for each account name wouldn't it? If you ban someone they stay banned.
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On May 28 2010 14:14 hofodomo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 13:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The channels I go in when I play Brood War don't have spam. I believe this is a crucial part of the point that OP is trying to make. What channel do you even go to? How do I find out about these channels? What if I also want to join, but I'm a newbie who doesn't know any of these places? During my years on broodwar, I hung out in OP SEN (a map making channel) and occasionally on LUE (more anons). But if I never found out about staredit.net and joined their forums, I would be pretty much stuck on spam-infested public channels. It seems that it's pretty crucial to "find out" about the good channels, and simply enabling private channels in SC2 does absolutely nothing in aiding the process of "finding out" places to be. Personally, I'm indifferent to the channel status on SC2--I have a decent number of IRL friends that I consistently play with, so I'm not interested in branching out on SC2 bnet. As such, while I do wish there were some magic wand that Blizzard could wave to fix channels, I do not have much of an idea regarding how to improve channels; throughout this thread, though, I am more inclined to agree with the OP, if only due to the fact that his logic and arguments seem much more coherent and organized to me.
On May 28 2010 14:04 Subversive wrote:
Here's how you do it. You click that tab on the main screen called 'Channels'. A list of channels comes up. Then what you do is you pick one. Alot aren't private as you assert. So now you're in a channel. Now you can talk to people. Seriously, why are you obstinately making these points? Private channels are not:
impossible to enter.
impossible to find.
an elitist group where new players can't join.
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On May 28 2010 14:05 Falling wrote:
Right, but quite frankly spammers and strangers I'm probably not going to join- basically I'd make one for my friends and I didn't know how. I'm not saying the capability is out there. It's simply that the process is obscure to the newcomer. (Whether the new method makes this more obvious or comes up with something different, I don't know. Like I said, I wish Blizzard would detail what they had in mind to replace chat channels. It might save us a lot of angst. Or not as is more likely.)
Yeah, I agree they would have to make it more transparent to the newcomer, and they should adjust an awful lot about the chat system, it was far from perfect in b.net 1.0. They just make it sound like they're coming up with a whole new system that throws the basic idea of chat channels out the window... if all they're going to do is fix up private chat channels to be more efficient and noob-friendly then they're putting us through a lot of unnecessary aggravation.
Here is what I think would be the perfect solution:
You can add a GROUP to your friends list, like say group "teamliquid". All you have to do is type in the name, and you'll automatically create one if nobody is there. Inside this group, you can access the chat therein at any time, in-game or out of game. It will not bug you every time someone says something in the group, but you can go back and read what people wrote when you open the window. You can be in multiple groups at once, and you can set them to auto-join when you login.
That's it.
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On May 28 2010 13:58 hoborg wrote:
Forums
IRC
So you have to already know people to get to know people? Brilliant.
On May 28 2010 13:58 hoborg wrote:
People spamming their channel in the public channels
In a sense, all that does it create a new public channel. In any case, there have to be better ways to communicate than being forced to join Clan X[D.
On May 28 2010 14:01 Ghin wrote:
I was in DRU1. I don't recognize your name.
I was some variation on "MythHavoc" back then. To be fair, I was ten years old or so, and this was back in the day where ASCII characters were allowed in name creation. It was something like "^@Myth_Havoc@^" or something equally retarded, but that was normal back in the Diablo 1 days. I don't think I need to explain why I've switched names.
On May 28 2010 14:01 Motiva wrote:
I would take chat channels over other functionality, because with a good chat channel system, a friends list isn't a big deal. If we're all in the same chatroom(s) (HoN did this right imo) and the other things are all nice, but for me the biggest joy outside of -actually playing- is not achievements, or the ladder, anything else I can think of. The biggest enjoyment is derived from the community. Chat channels act as an amazing catalyst for any niche community that wishes to, or finds reason to emerge. The OP seems to have a problem with public channels, and I don't think those are important in the least, but to essentially force partying and limit chat invite-only chat instances is to seriously hinder the ability for niche community to form. Plenty come to mind...
Theoretically you're right, but in reality the screenshots show something entirely different. HoN absolutely doesn't do it right as someone in this thread has already pointed out that they were only used for trash talking after the game. Lastly, don't confuse what we have now with the final product.
On May 28 2010 14:01 Motiva wrote:
Another issue with this system is that there was no reason to change it. Battle.net was home to countless communities full of people who never happened to need to contact eachother outside of the game. Now, with the removal of chat rooms, not only is blizzard slowing the formation of niche communities, they're also breaking countless ties people have made through these niche communities. I know that there are countless people I've spent years playing d1/sc/d2/wc3 and never needed to contact them outside of game. As such, I will likely never talk to those people again...
The screenshots are enough of a reason to change it.
On May 28 2010 14:04 Subversive wrote:
Here's how you do it. You click that tab on the main screen called 'Channels'. A list of channels comes up. Then what you do is you pick one. Alot aren't private as you assert. So now you're in a channel. Now you can talk to people. Seriously, why are you obstinately making these points?
What's funny is that's exactly what I did when I was enterting the channels that I was screenshotting. What non-private channels are you refering to exactly? "Night Elf Tree Of Life"? Empty. The WCG channels that nobody can join? -.-"
On May 28 2010 14:04 Subversive wrote:
Private channels are not:
impossible to enter.
impossible to find.
an elitist group where new players can't join.
To the average battle.net user, they are all those things and more.
On May 28 2010 14:04 Subversive wrote:
As for saying 'they're working on something that will be better' - well why don't you make this thread when that something better is known? Because right now the thread is like this:
Heaps of people telling you they disagree.
You saying "No you're all wrong I have faith in Blizzard"
Because it isn't helpful to anybody nor does it make for good community discussion to complain about things because we don't have all our instant-gratification features we want before the game has even launched.
On May 28 2010 14:04 Subversive wrote:
EDIT:
People have explained it countless times. You're derailing your own thread because people won't agree with you -_-
On May 28 2010 14:09 streamofhonour wrote:
Blizzard's haphazarf way of screwing with sc2 has made me lost faith in blizzard
Blizzard has done a fine job with SC2. With every patch the balance improves and issues that would have been in launch are being fixed. You are aware we're in beta, right?
Plenty of people are agreeing. It's actually refreshing to see there are people genuinely interested in discussing this instead of the usual complain-fest that the SC2 section of TL.net is slowly becoming. There are even a few that have offered constructive suggestions -- imagine that!
On May 28 2010 14:09 TriniMasta[wD] wrote:
Aren't they coming back, just not in Beta?
Someone is coming back, but it's not going to be a cut/paste of bnet 1.0 channels.
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On May 28 2010 14:17 hoborg wrote:
You can add a GROUP to your friends list, like say group "teamliquid". All you have to do is type in the name, and you'll automatically create one if nobody is there. Inside this group, you can access the chat therein at any time, in-game or out of game. It will not bug you every time someone says something in the group, but you can go back and read what people wrote when you open the window. You can be in multiple groups at once, and you can set them to auto-join when you login.
That's it.
Grats you just described IRC, replace "group" with "channel".
On May 28 2010 14:19 ComradeDover wrote:So you have to already know people to get to know people? Brilliant.
Really? Thick much? I'm quite new to TL, I cant even remember how I got here. I know no-one here yet. But, that would not stop me to join #team-liquid and have a chat with random people, maybe make a couple of friends, maybe get some friendly games going etc..
Just because you don't know a single person in a bar doesn't mean you can't hop in, have a beer and talk with random strangers and have a good time and make some new friends.
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CA10828 Posts
why are people acting as if it's impossible to find a private channel on bnet...
there are lots of ways to find channels:
-you play a gg vs a guy with a clan tag and ask him what channel he hangs out in
-you play a team game with random pubs and had fun. as the game is ending you tell them to join whatever channel you want for regame
-you mutual /f a someone you've played a few games with and you /whois to find what channel they idle in
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If you don't like channels, then don't pay attention to them. But it's not even arguable for most people. We need to have channels. Chatting about strategy and shit-talking in channels enhances the game to such a great degree.
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You left out all the custom clan channels or the ability to simply tell a group of people "hey go meet in channel pwn3d" and voila u have an instant discussion that people can leave or join at will. No need to invite them to a party or whatever.
Yes the "TFT USA" main channels were spammed hard but there were still many custom/private channels in which people "in-the-know" would meet to talk.
I WANT MY CHANNELS BACK
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hofodomo:
I believe this is a crucial part of the point that OP is trying to make. What channel do you even go to? How do I find out about these channels? What if I also want to join, but I'm a newbie who doesn't know any of these places?
That's already been answered :-)
On May 28 2010 13:58 hoborg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 13:52 Falling wrote:
how the heck do you know where the private channels are? Forums IRC People spamming their channel in the public channels You play someone on ladder and they invite you You see someone with a cheerful during Proleague that says "Come to op SomeKoreanBS on USWest!!!" OR, you make your own, for your own group of friends.
and this:
On May 28 2010 14:21 LosingID8 wrote:
why are people acting as if it's impossible to find a private channel on bnet...
there are lots of ways to find channels:
-you play a gg vs a guy with a clan tag and ask him what channel he hangs out in
-you play a team game with random pubs and had fun. as the game is ending you tell them to join whatever channel you want for regame
-you mutual /f a someone you've played a few games with and you /whois to find what channel they idle in
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EPT
