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+ Show Spoiler +This account has been suspended from the battle.net forums for a 72 hour period for trolling the forums. Reason: Trolling. Thread: OFFICIAL BLIZZARD SOURCE: https://us.battle.net/account/creation/tos.xmlQ u o t e: Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON Does anyone actually agree with this, after reading it? They can sell your private information, phone number, email, anything they want to anyone they want. Telemarketers, spammers, murderers, psychos. ANYBODY. They can record your voice messages and sell them. They can keep all your chat logs and sell them. More control (Blizzard has the right to any content (redistribute, modify and sell) you transmit or post on the Battle.Net including pictures, sounds and most certainly maps) Q u o t e: User Content. "User Content" means any communications, images, sounds, and all the material and information that you upload or transmit through a Game client or the Service, or that other users upload or transmit, including without limitation any chat text. You hereby grant Blizzard a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, license, including the right to sublicense to third parties, and right to reproduce, fix, adapt, modify, translate, reformat, create derivative works from, manufacture, introduce into circulation, publish, distribute, sell, license, sublicense, transfer, rent, lease, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, or provide access to electronically, broadcast, communicate to the public by telecommunication, display, perform, enter into computer memory, and use and practice such User Content as well as all modified and derivative works thereof. To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you may have in any User Content. You make a good map, Blizz has the "RIGHT" [bullsh1t, we'd see about that in court Big Blue...] to STEAL YOUR WORK, TAKE CREDIT, AND SELL IT FOR PROFIT. As I know for a fact that the trolls are soon to come in and ruin this thread, anybody who wants to actually learn more and discuss this rationally, start here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127018¤tpage=6Relevant from page 6 onward. It just gets more and more shocking with every post, and it's all in the ToS. If there's a blue post in this thread, I would be highly surprised. I'd be absolutely EMBARASSED to be representing and defending Blizzard's stance on this, but the challenge is still issued: Blue, what the fuc*? I feel nobody will have an answer for that.
My post on the Blizz forums is in the spoiler.
If you haven't read the posts about Blizzard's nasty ToS, where they can record and sell ANYTHING you say, do, type, or any of your personal information, it is located here, for some background info:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127018¤tpage=6
Relevant info goes from page 6 to page 10
My thread on bnet garnered 20 pages of serious response, with less trolls than normal...so let's call it 10 pages of serious thread action. And NO GRIMACE IN 20 PAGES, AMAZING, RIGHT?
I can see why they'd remove my thread and ban me from blizz forums. I would COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND if they were like "oh this guy's going to cost us money. He's right. Ban him".
But I was temp banned for 72 hours for "trolling", and the thread was removed. LOL? TROLLING? SERIOUSLY?
Proof that Blizzard does not care whether or not you like or buy the game.
A few members here saw my thread on the forums.....I wasn't trying to incite a riot and said in at least 5 posts in the thread that I was not encouraging people to drop Blizzard, just that the ToS should be something they CONSIDER when purchasing the game, and that shouldn't be hidden away in the ToS. Sure I wasn't being nice, but I certainly was not trolling, and was actually raising a concern.
Seems to be indicative that they will sell all your personal data to spammers?
Thoughts? Blizzard wants to keep you from knowing about their privacy policy?
PS: Blizzard, you don't moderate these forums, so enjoy your fail. Assholes.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Seriously?
This action seems to be a new low from Blizzard. I suppose they're embarrassed by the thought of the nasties in their TOS finding the light of day.
I can only imagine someone from Blizzard seeing your thread and exclaiming, "WHAT!? No one is supposed to read that! Take it down!"
EDIT:
Though, your post is a little troll-ish compared to an original post brought to my attention by Coma.
This post which I happened to save*, copied into a spoiler for your enjoyment:
+ Show Spoiler +Seeing as I bought, played and liked almost every single game Blizzard has ever released (even the more obscure stuff like Lost Vikings I+II and Blackthorne) and even have several copies of some games like StarCraft or WarCraft 2+3 and I might’ve been classified as an outright “Blizzard fanboy” right up to the moment where World of Warcraft got released (which I was awaiting for years by the way and had such high expectations for) and a few years later this is particularly hard to do, but I think I will skip their games from now on, let me try to explain why. # More spyware (Blizzard has the right to store, read and pass on every message (chat or voice) you transmit over B.Net 2.0, for security reasons of course) https://us.battle.net/account/creation/tos.xmlQ u o t e: Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording[. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON # More control (Blizzard has the right to any content (redistribute, modify and sell) you transmit or post on the Battle.Net including pictures, sounds and most certainly maps) Q u o t e: User Content. "User Content" means any communications, images, sounds, and all the material and information that you upload or transmit through a Game client or the Service, or that other users upload or transmit, including without limitation any chat text. You hereby grant Blizzard a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, license, including the right to sublicense to third parties, and right to reproduce, fix, adapt, modify, translate, reformat, create derivative works from, manufacture, introduce into circulation, publish, distribute, sell, license, sublicense, transfer, rent, lease, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, or provide access to electronically, broadcast, communicate to the public by telecommunication, display, perform, enter into computer memory, and use and practice such User Content as well as all modified and derivative works thereof. To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you may have in any User Content. Basically, once you’ve uploaded something onto the B.Net and if it’s popular they can take your idea, modify it a bit and put it up for money on their own map marketplace. # Map "Marketplace" (no more "free maps", by everyone for everyone like in the first StarCraft or WarCraft 3, they got IG shops you can pay money for 3rd party maps in, and the authors even get A PORTION of the earnings, how generous of you Blizzard) http://kotaku.com/5343006/blizzard-you-may-sell-your-starcraft-2-maps-on-battlenet-eventuallyRemember all of those free Blizzard maps for WarCraft 3, Blizzard made out of customer friendliness and to build up even more of a loyal fanbase? http://classic.battle.net/war3/maps/Well… not anymore… # They’re going to nickle-and-dime people for „features“ like creating Custom Tournaments/Leagues. Wonder why there’s still no chat even though it seems like a simple feature? It’s probably because it might cost something to keep a “Clan” chat-channel or similar open: http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/190/StarCraftIIDevelopersInterviewedQ u o t e: So what's Battle.net all about and how is it different? The new Battle.net will completely revolutionise the current version, but Blizzard is still looking to making this experience free for anyone buying StarCraft II or future games that use Battle.net. One idea which has been discussed in different iterations is microtransactions, meaning the service is free, but added value services like starting a custom tournament, league, or the like would cost a small amount of money. # Facebook like "ID-page" so you can "distinguish" yourself, includes your Real Name and mail address if you put it in for Payment Details, which is awesome for Phishers, Hackers and Spammers alike... # Actual Facebook integration, personally I don’t want a “platform” to be bundled with the games I want to play, that I’m being forced to use and I don’t need Stats about how often and how long I’ve been to the toilet, I just want separate chat channels with a simple friends list and simple /invite /ignore /add /remove features like back in the day to be able to play the game and that’s about it… In general, be wary of marketing people using the word “platform” to describe something… almost nothing good came of it, X-Box Live, Steam, Facebook Platform etc. are described as “platforms” and they always come with additional DRM, microtransactions and often even subscription fees. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24732Q u o t e: "There is no better opportunity to launch this strategic initiative than through the launch of StarCraft II," said Kotick on the call. "The Battle.net platform is an investment in the future of gaming, and an opportunity that we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on." - Bobby Kotick # More ads (thanks to contract with Massive - company for commercials owned by Microsoft), they also collect your IP and "standard information" http://community.microsoftadvertising.com/blogs/analytics/archive/2009/08/25/massive-s-in-game-advertising-season-kick-off.aspxQ u o t e: Through an agreement with Blizzard Entertainment, Massive is the exclusive advertising service provider for the World of Warcraft community web sites as well as the Battle.net online gaming service. A newly redesigned Battle.net platform will launch with StarCraft II in 2010, for which Massive will also be the exclusive advertising service provider. # No LAN or playing with friends anymore, everyone HAS to be logged in to the great Overlord hivemind B.Net 2.0 and every person HAS to have a key of the game (and every following Add-On) to be able to play with friends or family. Remember those times when a friend came over and you played a few rounds of StarCraft over LAN or you tried to introduce someone, that wasn’t really interested/hadn’t played the game before to it the same way and Blizzard didn’t say or do anything to prevent that? Well not anymore… cause to be able to do that you’ll have to have bought all the products and gone through a lengthy process of creating a B.Net 2.0 Account and Register the keys to it… # Selling one game as a 3-parter (if the first part costs 60$/60€... what do you think the so-called "Expansions" will cost? If you think they’re below 40$/€ you're out of your mind xD) To play the full multiplayer (with all units and buildings etc.) and play competitively you will have to buy all 3 and register all 3 CD-Keys. http://www.starcraft2.com/faq.xmlQ u o t e: If I buy StarCraft II but don't buy any of the expansion sets, will I still be able to play online? Yes. This will work similarly to Warcraft III and the original StarCraft, which maintained separate online gaming lobbies and ladders for expansion set players and players with the base Warcraft III or StarCraft. How will the expansion sets impact multiplayer gameplay? The expansion sets will add new content to each race for use in multiplayer matches. This could include additions such as new units, abilities, and structures, along with new maps and Battle.net updates. # Achievements (yay, thanks for keeping track of how awesome I am Blizzard... everyone's been eagerly awaiting those on the PC) As much as I might actually like the actual game and want to pay for it, this is just too much (marketing) crap to sift through, to be able to enjoy the good parts. Thanks for all the good gaming experiences you’ve delivered in the past Blizzard and good luck.
* http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?sid=5010&topicId=25026564417
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Well the way you presented yourself definitely border on the line of outright caustic criticism whether your intentions were pure or not.
It is troubling that these terms of service seem to give a lot of control to Blizzard, but I personally don't believe they will use my information other than their own marketing info, if anything at all. It's their game and it's their medium, and if you're gonna conduct shady shit on it than it's probably your fault for not reading the ToS or for doing shady shit in the first place.
I guess I'm idealistically relaxed on these types of situations since I don't talk about anything over Bnet that could ban me or something.
Also, just don't give out your info if you're that paranoid.
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On May 25 2010 13:29 shindigs wrote:
Well the way you presented yourself definitely border on the line of outright caustic criticism whether your intentions were pure or not.
It is troubling that these terms of service seem to give a lot of control to Blizzard, but I personally don't believe they will use my information other than their own marketing info, if anything at all. It's their game and it's their medium, and if you're gonna conduct shady shit on it than it's probably your fault for not reading the ToS or for doing shady shit in the first place.
I guess I'm idealistically relaxed on these types of situations since I don't talk about anything over Bnet that could ban me or something.
Also, just don't give out your info if you're that paranoid.
I agree, I was borderline, but considering that I never tried to convince people to drop the game, and the content of other posts on the Blizz forums, this is, and there's no other word for it, retarded.
Blizz doesn't want you to see their privacy policy, it seems.
I stated over and over and over in that thread that I did not want people to blindly go OH SHIT NOT BUYING. Just that they should take this info into consideration. I believe I said...
"I don't care what conclusion you arrive at due to this information, it is your choice to make...Just that this information is part of your thought process."
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Well you were getting kinda hysterical in that thread, so it's understandable. Not to mention you were also being a bit dishonest. See the following quote:
Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON, including without limitation (a) to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or governmental request; (b) to enforce the terms of this or any other agreement or Blizzard policy; (c) to protect our legal rights and remedies; (d) where we feel someone’s health or safety may be threatened; or (e) to report a crime or other offensive behavior.
The part that I bolded in that quote is the part that your post conveniently omits in order to incite outrage and panic, which is basically what a troll tries to do. Next time don't resort to dishonesty in order to make a point.
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you have no idea how much statistics and studies can be sold for
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On May 25 2010 13:32 Spawkuring wrote:Well you were getting kinda hysterical in that thread, so it's understandable. Not to mention you were also being a bit dishonest. See the following quote: Show nested quote +Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON, including without limitation (a) to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or governmental request; (b) to enforce the terms of this or any other agreement or Blizzard policy; (c) to protect our legal rights and remedies; (d) where we feel someone’s health or safety may be threatened; or (e) to report a crime or other offensive behavior. The part that I bolded in that quote is the part that your post conveniently omits in order to incite outrage and panic, which is basically what a troll tries to do. Next time don't resort to dishonesty in order to make a point.
You could garner a bit of paranoia from the "without limitations" part but I haven't seen a game company yet use this power for evil. They do need this data unfortunately sometimes for legal reasons. Shady shit goes on online.
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On May 25 2010 13:32 Spawkuring wrote:Well you were getting kinda hysterical in that thread, so it's understandable. Not to mention you were also being a bit dishonest. See the following quote: Show nested quote +Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON, including without limitation (a) to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or governmental request; (b) to enforce the terms of this or any other agreement or Blizzard policy; (c) to protect our legal rights and remedies; (d) where we feel someone’s health or safety may be threatened; or (e) to report a crime or other offensive behavior. The part that I bolded in that quote is the part that your post conveniently omits in order to incite outrage and panic, which is basically what a troll tries to do. Next time don't resort to dishonesty in order to make a point.
You clearly did not read the other relevant thread here on TL.
How is that dishonest? You missed a part that needs to be bolded. I'll help you out, even though you're being an asshole.
WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON, including without limitation ...
It's not limited to the parts you bolded. Next time don't resort to ignorance when posting in a thread. Thanks.
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why do you think facebook started shitting on everyone's privacy? information is worth a shit ton of money
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It's trolling because of the spin you put on it. Contrary to recent public opinion, Blizzard are not Beelzebub incarnate, and as such they will not be selling your social security number to the highest bidder.
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On May 25 2010 13:34 trace wm wrote:
It's trolling because of the spin you put on it. Contrary to recent public opinion, Blizzard are not Beelzebub incarnate, and as such they will not be selling your social security number to the highest bidder.
That's not trolling. I represented my posts as my opinion, and multiple, multiple times stated that I am not saying "OH U BUY THE GAME UR GONNA GET SPAMMED LOLOL". Do you know what trolling is???
Contrary to your post, you have absolutely no idea what Blizz will do with your information.
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On May 25 2010 13:32 Spawkuring wrote:Well you were getting kinda hysterical in that thread, so it's understandable. Not to mention you were also being a bit dishonest. See the following quote: Show nested quote +Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON, including without limitation (a) to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or governmental request; (b) to enforce the terms of this or any other agreement or Blizzard policy; (c) to protect our legal rights and remedies; (d) where we feel someone’s health or safety may be threatened; or (e) to report a crime or other offensive behavior. The part that I bolded in that quote is the part that your post conveniently omits in order to incite outrage and panic, which is basically what a troll tries to do. Next time don't resort to dishonesty in order to make a point.
Case closed, nothing more to see here. Surprised you only got a 72 hour ban honestly. This is blizzard covering their own ass so that they can use logs etc. to justify bans, or account theft etc. not so they can sell your UMS map and make millions while publishing your credit card info and IP address to anyone with a checkbook.
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This is "standard" as in a lot of companies have this in their TOS or similar things that you necessarily wouldn't be happy to allow them to do had you actually bothered to read.
Doesn't mean you should be worried about it, I'm pretty sure this is nearly a straight copy paste from WoW and do you ever hear anyone being hurt because of agreeing with the tos? Ya they aren't going to start selling zeratul666xxxkiller's phone number just for the heck of it.
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On May 25 2010 13:34 InfiniteIce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:32 Spawkuring wrote:Well you were getting kinda hysterical in that thread, so it's understandable. Not to mention you were also being a bit dishonest. See the following quote: Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON, including without limitation (a) to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or governmental request; (b) to enforce the terms of this or any other agreement or Blizzard policy; (c) to protect our legal rights and remedies; (d) where we feel someone’s health or safety may be threatened; or (e) to report a crime or other offensive behavior. The part that I bolded in that quote is the part that your post conveniently omits in order to incite outrage and panic, which is basically what a troll tries to do. Next time don't resort to dishonesty in order to make a point. You clearly did not read the other relevant thread here on TL. How is that dishonest? You missed a part that needs to be bolded. I'll help you out, even though you're being an asshole. Show nested quote +WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON, including without limitation ... It's not limited to the parts you bolded. Next time don't resort to ignorance when posting in a thread. Thanks.
Putting spin on anything is gonna make you look bad. Not to say that you don't have some validity, but a lot of this is just basic cover-your-ass type stuff that all companies want to do. Almost any company can enforce draconian measures, but very few of them will actually do so. Blizzard could suddenly charge $50 for each keystroke you make, but obviously that will never fly amongst the customers.
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Blizzard isn't all evil and out to get you, thanks.
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I like that you brought up this point, it's definitely something that should have some discussion about, but I don't like how you call every single person an asshole. Calm down and maybe you won't get temp-banned. For real man, what provocation causes you to call everyone an asshole? Is it just because they don't agree with you?
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I fully agree with you man. The fact is that people were trolling your thread far more than you were Trolling the forums in general (you may have been a bit out there but not too much in my opinion)
The wording they have there is really troublesome in my opinion. They seem to be grabbing alot more "rights" than they truley have a "right" to in my opinion at least.
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Russian Federation410 Posts
Lemme see if I got this right, you're freaking out about Blizzard having the ability to do whatever they want with the logs YOU leave on THEIR server via THEIR game? Maybe you should read your deal with your ISP again, you will be surprised, and they have all the logs.
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On May 25 2010 13:37 Puosu wrote:
This is "standard" as in a lot of companies have this in their TOS or similar things that you necessarily wouldn't be happy to allow them to do had you actually bothered to read.
Doesn't mean you should be worried about it, I'm pretty sure this is nearly a straight copy paste from WoW and do you ever hear anyone being hurt because of agreeing with the tos? Ya they aren't going to start selling zeratul666xxxkiller's phone number just for the heck of it.
I shouldn't?
And no, this is not standard. This is the most general ToS I have ever seen. Go look at the War3 ToS. Go look at any other ToS.
I don't play WoW, so can't verify that with certainty that it isn't in the ToS for that game.
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On May 25 2010 13:28 Ryhn wrote:Seriously? This action seems to be a new low from Blizzard. I suppose they're embarrassed by the thought of the nasties in their TOS finding the light of day. I can only imagine someone from Blizzard seeing your thread and exclaiming, "WHAT!? No one is supposed to read that! Take it down!" EDIT: Though, your post is a little troll-ish compared to the original posts by the likes of Coma. Coma's post which I happened to save, copied into a spoiler for your enjoyment: + Show Spoiler +Seeing as I bought, played and liked almost every single game Blizzard has ever released (even the more obscure stuff like Lost Vikings I+II and Blackthorne) and even have several copies of some games like StarCraft or WarCraft 2+3 and I might’ve been classified as an outright “Blizzard fanboy” right up to the moment where World of Warcraft got released (which I was awaiting for years by the way and had such high expectations for) and a few years later this is particularly hard to do, but I think I will skip their games from now on, let me try to explain why. # More spyware (Blizzard has the right to store, read and pass on every message (chat or voice) you transmit over B.Net 2.0, for security reasons of course) https://us.battle.net/account/creation/tos.xmlQ u o t e: Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording[. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON # More control (Blizzard has the right to any content (redistribute, modify and sell) you transmit or post on the Battle.Net including pictures, sounds and most certainly maps) Q u o t e: User Content. "User Content" means any communications, images, sounds, and all the material and information that you upload or transmit through a Game client or the Service, or that other users upload or transmit, including without limitation any chat text. You hereby grant Blizzard a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, license, including the right to sublicense to third parties, and right to reproduce, fix, adapt, modify, translate, reformat, create derivative works from, manufacture, introduce into circulation, publish, distribute, sell, license, sublicense, transfer, rent, lease, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, or provide access to electronically, broadcast, communicate to the public by telecommunication, display, perform, enter into computer memory, and use and practice such User Content as well as all modified and derivative works thereof. To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you may have in any User Content. Basically, once you’ve uploaded something onto the B.Net and if it’s popular they can take your idea, modify it a bit and put it up for money on their own map marketplace. # Map "Marketplace" (no more "free maps", by everyone for everyone like in the first StarCraft or WarCraft 3, they got IG shops you can pay money for 3rd party maps in, and the authors even get A PORTION of the earnings, how generous of you Blizzard) http://kotaku.com/5343006/blizzard-you-may-sell-your-starcraft-2-maps-on-battlenet-eventuallyRemember all of those free Blizzard maps for WarCraft 3, Blizzard made out of customer friendliness and to build up even more of a loyal fanbase? http://classic.battle.net/war3/maps/Well… not anymore… # They’re going to nickle-and-dime people for „features“ like creating Custom Tournaments/Leagues. Wonder why there’s still no chat even though it seems like a simple feature? It’s probably because it might cost something to keep a “Clan” chat-channel or similar open: http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/190/StarCraftIIDevelopersInterviewedQ u o t e: So what's Battle.net all about and how is it different? The new Battle.net will completely revolutionise the current version, but Blizzard is still looking to making this experience free for anyone buying StarCraft II or future games that use Battle.net. One idea which has been discussed in different iterations is microtransactions, meaning the service is free, but added value services like starting a custom tournament, league, or the like would cost a small amount of money. # Facebook like "ID-page" so you can "distinguish" yourself, includes your Real Name and mail address if you put it in for Payment Details, which is awesome for Phishers, Hackers and Spammers alike... # Actual Facebook integration, personally I don’t want a “platform” to be bundled with the games I want to play, that I’m being forced to use and I don’t need Stats about how often and how long I’ve been to the toilet, I just want separate chat channels with a simple friends list and simple /invite /ignore /add /remove features like back in the day to be able to play the game and that’s about it… In general, be wary of marketing people using the word “platform” to describe something… almost nothing good came of it, X-Box Live, Steam, Facebook Platform etc. are described as “platforms” and they always come with additional DRM, microtransactions and often even subscription fees. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24732Q u o t e: "There is no better opportunity to launch this strategic initiative than through the launch of StarCraft II," said Kotick on the call. "The Battle.net platform is an investment in the future of gaming, and an opportunity that we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on." - Bobby Kotick # More ads (thanks to contract with Massive - company for commercials owned by Microsoft), they also collect your IP and "standard information" http://community.microsoftadvertising.com/blogs/analytics/archive/2009/08/25/massive-s-in-game-advertising-season-kick-off.aspxQ u o t e: Through an agreement with Blizzard Entertainment, Massive is the exclusive advertising service provider for the World of Warcraft community web sites as well as the Battle.net online gaming service. A newly redesigned Battle.net platform will launch with StarCraft II in 2010, for which Massive will also be the exclusive advertising service provider. # No LAN or playing with friends anymore, everyone HAS to be logged in to the great Overlord hivemind B.Net 2.0 and every person HAS to have a key of the game (and every following Add-On) to be able to play with friends or family. Remember those times when a friend came over and you played a few rounds of StarCraft over LAN or you tried to introduce someone, that wasn’t really interested/hadn’t played the game before to it the same way and Blizzard didn’t say or do anything to prevent that? Well not anymore… cause to be able to do that you’ll have to have bought all the products and gone through a lengthy process of creating a B.Net 2.0 Account and Register the keys to it… # Selling one game as a 3-parter (if the first part costs 60$/60€... what do you think the so-called "Expansions" will cost? If you think they’re below 40$/€ you're out of your mind xD) To play the full multiplayer (with all units and buildings etc.) and play competitively you will have to buy all 3 and register all 3 CD-Keys. http://www.starcraft2.com/faq.xmlQ u o t e: If I buy StarCraft II but don't buy any of the expansion sets, will I still be able to play online? Yes. This will work similarly to Warcraft III and the original StarCraft, which maintained separate online gaming lobbies and ladders for expansion set players and players with the base Warcraft III or StarCraft. How will the expansion sets impact multiplayer gameplay? The expansion sets will add new content to each race for use in multiplayer matches. This could include additions such as new units, abilities, and structures, along with new maps and Battle.net updates. # Achievements (yay, thanks for keeping track of how awesome I am Blizzard... everyone's been eagerly awaiting those on the PC) As much as I might actually like the actual game and want to pay for it, this is just too much (marketing) crap to sift through, to be able to enjoy the good parts. Thanks for all the good gaming experiences you’ve delivered in the past Blizzard and good luck.
Just wanted to state for the record that this is not my post, I just found it on the Battle.net forums and linked to it.
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On May 25 2010 13:38 Superiorwolf wrote:
I like that you brought up this point, it's definitely something that should have some discussion about, but I don't like how you call every single person an asshole. Calm down and maybe you won't get temp-banned. For real man, what provocation causes you to call everyone an asshole? Is it just because they don't agree with you?
No, it's because of this (posted by a different user right after you):
I fully agree with you man. The fact is that people were trolling your thread far more than you were Trolling the forums in general (you may have been a bit out there but not too much in my opinion)
The wording they have there is really troublesome in my opinion. They seem to be grabbing alot more "rights" than they truley have a "right" to in my opinion at least.
Somebody also pointed out that exact same point to me on the blizz forums (that you just made) and I promptly stopped and realized I was getting overexcited and apologized, then carried on without doing so.
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On May 25 2010 13:38 Kantutan wrote:
Blizzard isn't all evil and out to get you, thanks.
Yup, that's Google =P
I never seem to worry because my information isn't worth selling, and if I get email spammed there's a spam folder and spam blocker if I need it. Also I don't give out some real info anyway 
For nerds, sometimes it's surprising when you don't see the simple solutions.
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On May 25 2010 13:39 Go0g3n wrote:
Lemme see if I got this right, you're freaking out about Blizzard having the ability to do whatever they want with the logs YOU leave on THEIR server via THEIR game? Maybe you should read your deal with your ISP again, you will be surprised, and they have all the logs.
This, basically.
You guys really have no idea how little privacy you actually have.
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On May 25 2010 13:40 coma wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:28 Ryhn wrote:Seriously? This action seems to be a new low from Blizzard. I suppose they're embarrassed by the thought of the nasties in their TOS finding the light of day. I can only imagine someone from Blizzard seeing your thread and exclaiming, "WHAT!? No one is supposed to read that! Take it down!" EDIT: Though, your post is a little troll-ish compared to the original posts by the likes of Coma. Coma's post which I happened to save, copied into a spoiler for your enjoyment: + Show Spoiler +Seeing as I bought, played and liked almost every single game Blizzard has ever released (even the more obscure stuff like Lost Vikings I+II and Blackthorne) and even have several copies of some games like StarCraft or WarCraft 2+3 and I might’ve been classified as an outright “Blizzard fanboy” right up to the moment where World of Warcraft got released (which I was awaiting for years by the way and had such high expectations for) and a few years later this is particularly hard to do, but I think I will skip their games from now on, let me try to explain why. # More spyware (Blizzard has the right to store, read and pass on every message (chat or voice) you transmit over B.Net 2.0, for security reasons of course) https://us.battle.net/account/creation/tos.xmlQ u o t e: Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording[. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON # More control (Blizzard has the right to any content (redistribute, modify and sell) you transmit or post on the Battle.Net including pictures, sounds and most certainly maps) Q u o t e: User Content. "User Content" means any communications, images, sounds, and all the material and information that you upload or transmit through a Game client or the Service, or that other users upload or transmit, including without limitation any chat text. You hereby grant Blizzard a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, license, including the right to sublicense to third parties, and right to reproduce, fix, adapt, modify, translate, reformat, create derivative works from, manufacture, introduce into circulation, publish, distribute, sell, license, sublicense, transfer, rent, lease, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, or provide access to electronically, broadcast, communicate to the public by telecommunication, display, perform, enter into computer memory, and use and practice such User Content as well as all modified and derivative works thereof. To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you may have in any User Content. Basically, once you’ve uploaded something onto the B.Net and if it’s popular they can take your idea, modify it a bit and put it up for money on their own map marketplace. # Map "Marketplace" (no more "free maps", by everyone for everyone like in the first StarCraft or WarCraft 3, they got IG shops you can pay money for 3rd party maps in, and the authors even get A PORTION of the earnings, how generous of you Blizzard) http://kotaku.com/5343006/blizzard-you-may-sell-your-starcraft-2-maps-on-battlenet-eventuallyRemember all of those free Blizzard maps for WarCraft 3, Blizzard made out of customer friendliness and to build up even more of a loyal fanbase? http://classic.battle.net/war3/maps/Well… not anymore… # They’re going to nickle-and-dime people for „features“ like creating Custom Tournaments/Leagues. Wonder why there’s still no chat even though it seems like a simple feature? It’s probably because it might cost something to keep a “Clan” chat-channel or similar open: http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/190/StarCraftIIDevelopersInterviewedQ u o t e: So what's Battle.net all about and how is it different? The new Battle.net will completely revolutionise the current version, but Blizzard is still looking to making this experience free for anyone buying StarCraft II or future games that use Battle.net. One idea which has been discussed in different iterations is microtransactions, meaning the service is free, but added value services like starting a custom tournament, league, or the like would cost a small amount of money. # Facebook like "ID-page" so you can "distinguish" yourself, includes your Real Name and mail address if you put it in for Payment Details, which is awesome for Phishers, Hackers and Spammers alike... # Actual Facebook integration, personally I don’t want a “platform” to be bundled with the games I want to play, that I’m being forced to use and I don’t need Stats about how often and how long I’ve been to the toilet, I just want separate chat channels with a simple friends list and simple /invite /ignore /add /remove features like back in the day to be able to play the game and that’s about it… In general, be wary of marketing people using the word “platform” to describe something… almost nothing good came of it, X-Box Live, Steam, Facebook Platform etc. are described as “platforms” and they always come with additional DRM, microtransactions and often even subscription fees. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24732Q u o t e: "There is no better opportunity to launch this strategic initiative than through the launch of StarCraft II," said Kotick on the call. "The Battle.net platform is an investment in the future of gaming, and an opportunity that we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on." - Bobby Kotick # More ads (thanks to contract with Massive - company for commercials owned by Microsoft), they also collect your IP and "standard information" http://community.microsoftadvertising.com/blogs/analytics/archive/2009/08/25/massive-s-in-game-advertising-season-kick-off.aspxQ u o t e: Through an agreement with Blizzard Entertainment, Massive is the exclusive advertising service provider for the World of Warcraft community web sites as well as the Battle.net online gaming service. A newly redesigned Battle.net platform will launch with StarCraft II in 2010, for which Massive will also be the exclusive advertising service provider. # No LAN or playing with friends anymore, everyone HAS to be logged in to the great Overlord hivemind B.Net 2.0 and every person HAS to have a key of the game (and every following Add-On) to be able to play with friends or family. Remember those times when a friend came over and you played a few rounds of StarCraft over LAN or you tried to introduce someone, that wasn’t really interested/hadn’t played the game before to it the same way and Blizzard didn’t say or do anything to prevent that? Well not anymore… cause to be able to do that you’ll have to have bought all the products and gone through a lengthy process of creating a B.Net 2.0 Account and Register the keys to it… # Selling one game as a 3-parter (if the first part costs 60$/60€... what do you think the so-called "Expansions" will cost? If you think they’re below 40$/€ you're out of your mind xD) To play the full multiplayer (with all units and buildings etc.) and play competitively you will have to buy all 3 and register all 3 CD-Keys. http://www.starcraft2.com/faq.xmlQ u o t e: If I buy StarCraft II but don't buy any of the expansion sets, will I still be able to play online? Yes. This will work similarly to Warcraft III and the original StarCraft, which maintained separate online gaming lobbies and ladders for expansion set players and players with the base Warcraft III or StarCraft. How will the expansion sets impact multiplayer gameplay? The expansion sets will add new content to each race for use in multiplayer matches. This could include additions such as new units, abilities, and structures, along with new maps and Battle.net updates. # Achievements (yay, thanks for keeping track of how awesome I am Blizzard... everyone's been eagerly awaiting those on the PC) As much as I might actually like the actual game and want to pay for it, this is just too much (marketing) crap to sift through, to be able to enjoy the good parts. Thanks for all the good gaming experiences you’ve delivered in the past Blizzard and good luck. Just wanted to state for the record that this is not my post, I just found it on the Battle.net forums and linked to it.
Ahh, sorry about that then! - My plain text copy didn't save the link, so that piece of information was lost.
Would you happen to have the link on hand? I'll edit it in.
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On May 25 2010 13:40 shindigs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:38 Kantutan wrote:
Blizzard isn't all evil and out to get you, thanks. Yup, that's Google =P I never seem to worry because my information isn't worth selling, and if I get email spammed there's a spam folder and spam blocker if I need it. Also I don't give out some real info anyway For nerds, sometimes it's surprising when you don't see the simple solutions.
Have you games always been integrated with a service provided by a company that has been in the media for numerous privacy issues? Facebook..
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It's a bit of a grey zone, and while Blizzard's conditions do seem exaggerated, I don't have a problem with them recording chat and other similar user content, however, IP and Address/Phone number just makes me want to fill the registration page with bullshit data.
I said it's a grey zone because of this :
http://www.kokomoperspective.com/news/local_news/article_15a0a546-f574-11de-ab22-001cc4c03286.html
While apparently all this seems to encourage people to be honest and behaving decently in the game / chat lobby, the reality, imo, will be that people, if they read the ToS, will simply refuse to use their real data to register for a game.
I do agree that this deserves attention, but you posting on their forums about it seems to inevitably end in some sort of censorship. I really hate the type administration Blizzard is using for their games, I feel that they have crossed a certain line without any real justification (as opposed to WoW for example, because in that case a monthly fee is involved, but even that is not all that relevant).
I do not want this sort of ruling system on Bnet 2, especially after they refuse to implement LAN. I also hate the fact that they ban user names like Dopeman (wtf).
The direction Blizzard is taking as a company, and what they are trying to do with Bnet2 saddens me deeply, and all this just contributes more and more in taking all the magic/fun out of what was once Bnet for BroodWar. I feel like they are becoming drunk on power, greedy, and what I hate most of all is the feeling that they have this hidden agenda, to prevent piracy, to control the game and any potential tournaments, so that as any chance for profit arises, they are in on it and nothing moves without their consent.
It feels to me like they would like to be in for the profit off the potential ESPORTS phenomenon, but they are not willing to truly invest in making esports a reality, at least not nearly as willing as they want us to believe they are.
Somewhere along the lines of Blizzard's exponential growth, the real passion of their former selves is all but gone
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On May 25 2010 13:41 Ryhn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:40 coma wrote:On May 25 2010 13:28 Ryhn wrote:Seriously? This action seems to be a new low from Blizzard. I suppose they're embarrassed by the thought of the nasties in their TOS finding the light of day. I can only imagine someone from Blizzard seeing your thread and exclaiming, "WHAT!? No one is supposed to read that! Take it down!" EDIT: Though, your post is a little troll-ish compared to the original posts by the likes of Coma. Coma's post which I happened to save, copied into a spoiler for your enjoyment: + Show Spoiler +Seeing as I bought, played and liked almost every single game Blizzard has ever released (even the more obscure stuff like Lost Vikings I+II and Blackthorne) and even have several copies of some games like StarCraft or WarCraft 2+3 and I might’ve been classified as an outright “Blizzard fanboy” right up to the moment where World of Warcraft got released (which I was awaiting for years by the way and had such high expectations for) and a few years later this is particularly hard to do, but I think I will skip their games from now on, let me try to explain why. # More spyware (Blizzard has the right to store, read and pass on every message (chat or voice) you transmit over B.Net 2.0, for security reasons of course) https://us.battle.net/account/creation/tos.xmlQ u o t e: Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording[. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON # More control (Blizzard has the right to any content (redistribute, modify and sell) you transmit or post on the Battle.Net including pictures, sounds and most certainly maps) Q u o t e: User Content. "User Content" means any communications, images, sounds, and all the material and information that you upload or transmit through a Game client or the Service, or that other users upload or transmit, including without limitation any chat text. You hereby grant Blizzard a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, license, including the right to sublicense to third parties, and right to reproduce, fix, adapt, modify, translate, reformat, create derivative works from, manufacture, introduce into circulation, publish, distribute, sell, license, sublicense, transfer, rent, lease, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, or provide access to electronically, broadcast, communicate to the public by telecommunication, display, perform, enter into computer memory, and use and practice such User Content as well as all modified and derivative works thereof. To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you may have in any User Content. Basically, once you’ve uploaded something onto the B.Net and if it’s popular they can take your idea, modify it a bit and put it up for money on their own map marketplace. # Map "Marketplace" (no more "free maps", by everyone for everyone like in the first StarCraft or WarCraft 3, they got IG shops you can pay money for 3rd party maps in, and the authors even get A PORTION of the earnings, how generous of you Blizzard) http://kotaku.com/5343006/blizzard-you-may-sell-your-starcraft-2-maps-on-battlenet-eventuallyRemember all of those free Blizzard maps for WarCraft 3, Blizzard made out of customer friendliness and to build up even more of a loyal fanbase? http://classic.battle.net/war3/maps/Well… not anymore… # They’re going to nickle-and-dime people for „features“ like creating Custom Tournaments/Leagues. Wonder why there’s still no chat even though it seems like a simple feature? It’s probably because it might cost something to keep a “Clan” chat-channel or similar open: http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/190/StarCraftIIDevelopersInterviewedQ u o t e: So what's Battle.net all about and how is it different? The new Battle.net will completely revolutionise the current version, but Blizzard is still looking to making this experience free for anyone buying StarCraft II or future games that use Battle.net. One idea which has been discussed in different iterations is microtransactions, meaning the service is free, but added value services like starting a custom tournament, league, or the like would cost a small amount of money. # Facebook like "ID-page" so you can "distinguish" yourself, includes your Real Name and mail address if you put it in for Payment Details, which is awesome for Phishers, Hackers and Spammers alike... # Actual Facebook integration, personally I don’t want a “platform” to be bundled with the games I want to play, that I’m being forced to use and I don’t need Stats about how often and how long I’ve been to the toilet, I just want separate chat channels with a simple friends list and simple /invite /ignore /add /remove features like back in the day to be able to play the game and that’s about it… In general, be wary of marketing people using the word “platform” to describe something… almost nothing good came of it, X-Box Live, Steam, Facebook Platform etc. are described as “platforms” and they always come with additional DRM, microtransactions and often even subscription fees. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24732Q u o t e: "There is no better opportunity to launch this strategic initiative than through the launch of StarCraft II," said Kotick on the call. "The Battle.net platform is an investment in the future of gaming, and an opportunity that we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on." - Bobby Kotick # More ads (thanks to contract with Massive - company for commercials owned by Microsoft), they also collect your IP and "standard information" http://community.microsoftadvertising.com/blogs/analytics/archive/2009/08/25/massive-s-in-game-advertising-season-kick-off.aspxQ u o t e: Through an agreement with Blizzard Entertainment, Massive is the exclusive advertising service provider for the World of Warcraft community web sites as well as the Battle.net online gaming service. A newly redesigned Battle.net platform will launch with StarCraft II in 2010, for which Massive will also be the exclusive advertising service provider. # No LAN or playing with friends anymore, everyone HAS to be logged in to the great Overlord hivemind B.Net 2.0 and every person HAS to have a key of the game (and every following Add-On) to be able to play with friends or family. Remember those times when a friend came over and you played a few rounds of StarCraft over LAN or you tried to introduce someone, that wasn’t really interested/hadn’t played the game before to it the same way and Blizzard didn’t say or do anything to prevent that? Well not anymore… cause to be able to do that you’ll have to have bought all the products and gone through a lengthy process of creating a B.Net 2.0 Account and Register the keys to it… # Selling one game as a 3-parter (if the first part costs 60$/60€... what do you think the so-called "Expansions" will cost? If you think they’re below 40$/€ you're out of your mind xD) To play the full multiplayer (with all units and buildings etc.) and play competitively you will have to buy all 3 and register all 3 CD-Keys. http://www.starcraft2.com/faq.xmlQ u o t e: If I buy StarCraft II but don't buy any of the expansion sets, will I still be able to play online? Yes. This will work similarly to Warcraft III and the original StarCraft, which maintained separate online gaming lobbies and ladders for expansion set players and players with the base Warcraft III or StarCraft. How will the expansion sets impact multiplayer gameplay? The expansion sets will add new content to each race for use in multiplayer matches. This could include additions such as new units, abilities, and structures, along with new maps and Battle.net updates. # Achievements (yay, thanks for keeping track of how awesome I am Blizzard... everyone's been eagerly awaiting those on the PC) As much as I might actually like the actual game and want to pay for it, this is just too much (marketing) crap to sift through, to be able to enjoy the good parts. Thanks for all the good gaming experiences you’ve delivered in the past Blizzard and good luck. Just wanted to state for the record that this is not my post, I just found it on the Battle.net forums and linked to it. Ahh, sorry about that then! - My plain text copy didn't save the link, so that piece of information was lost. Would you happen to have the link on hand? I'll edit it in.
I posted the thread due to Coma's post, not the other way around.
I also verified the ToS myself before looking foolish, and it's right.
Here's the original thread he references: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?sid=5010&topicId=25026564417
Mine, as I said, has been deleted along with my temp ban for "trolling".
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On May 25 2010 13:42 InfiniteIce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:40 shindigs wrote:On May 25 2010 13:38 Kantutan wrote:
Blizzard isn't all evil and out to get you, thanks. Yup, that's Google =P I never seem to worry because my information isn't worth selling, and if I get email spammed there's a spam folder and spam blocker if I need it. Also I don't give out some real info anyway For nerds, sometimes it's surprising when you don't see the simple solutions. Have you games always been integrated with a service provided by a company that has been in the media for numerous privacy issues? Facebook..
Don't use Facebook then.
Just about any online website, service, or even your ISP, has more than enough info on anything you've ever done on the internet, and could easily abuse it given the chance. The only thing you can do is go with the ones who are rated as the most trustworthy. Facebook is obviously not reliable, so don't entrust your personal info with it.
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Also, isn't facebook a little notorious for using the users' private data? Or was that Myspace? Never used any 'social network', at all.
Edit: guess someone else already mentioned that.
On a side note, I fucking despise facebook.
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On May 25 2010 13:45 Spawkuring wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:42 InfiniteIce wrote:On May 25 2010 13:40 shindigs wrote:On May 25 2010 13:38 Kantutan wrote:
Blizzard isn't all evil and out to get you, thanks. Yup, that's Google =P I never seem to worry because my information isn't worth selling, and if I get email spammed there's a spam folder and spam blocker if I need it. Also I don't give out some real info anyway For nerds, sometimes it's surprising when you don't see the simple solutions. Have you games always been integrated with a service provided by a company that has been in the media for numerous privacy issues? Facebook.. Don't use Facebook then. Just about any online website, service, or even your ISP, has more than enough info on anything you've ever done on the internet, and could easily abuse it given the chance. The only thing you can do is go with the ones who are rated as the most trustworthy. Facebook is obviously not reliable, so don't entrust your personal info with it.
Not a solution.
Why should I be forced to choose between services?
Additionally, facebook surpassed myspace and became one of the top 5 most visited sites on the internet BEFORE their privacy concerns were reported in the media. Little too late now for most people, I think.
Do you really think this is a valid post you made?
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On May 25 2010 13:44 InfiniteIce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:41 Ryhn wrote:On May 25 2010 13:40 coma wrote:On May 25 2010 13:28 Ryhn wrote:Seriously? This action seems to be a new low from Blizzard. I suppose they're embarrassed by the thought of the nasties in their TOS finding the light of day. I can only imagine someone from Blizzard seeing your thread and exclaiming, "WHAT!? No one is supposed to read that! Take it down!" EDIT: Though, your post is a little troll-ish compared to the original posts by the likes of Coma. Coma's post which I happened to save, copied into a spoiler for your enjoyment: + Show Spoiler +Seeing as I bought, played and liked almost every single game Blizzard has ever released (even the more obscure stuff like Lost Vikings I+II and Blackthorne) and even have several copies of some games like StarCraft or WarCraft 2+3 and I might’ve been classified as an outright “Blizzard fanboy” right up to the moment where World of Warcraft got released (which I was awaiting for years by the way and had such high expectations for) and a few years later this is particularly hard to do, but I think I will skip their games from now on, let me try to explain why. # More spyware (Blizzard has the right to store, read and pass on every message (chat or voice) you transmit over B.Net 2.0, for security reasons of course) https://us.battle.net/account/creation/tos.xmlQ u o t e: Content Screening and Disclosure. We do not, and cannot, pre-screen or monitor all User Content. However, our representatives may monitor and/or record your communications (including without limitation chat text) when you are using the Service or playing a Game, and you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring and recording[. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy concerning the transmission of any User Content, including without limitation chat text or voice communications. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for User Content that is generated by users. We have the right, but not the obligation, in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any User Content. WE ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT, AT ALL TIMES AND IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCLOSE ANY USER CONTENT AND OTHER INFORMATION (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION CHAT TEXT, VOICE COMMUNICATIONS, IP ADDRESSES, AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION) FOR ANY REASON # More control (Blizzard has the right to any content (redistribute, modify and sell) you transmit or post on the Battle.Net including pictures, sounds and most certainly maps) Q u o t e: User Content. "User Content" means any communications, images, sounds, and all the material and information that you upload or transmit through a Game client or the Service, or that other users upload or transmit, including without limitation any chat text. You hereby grant Blizzard a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, license, including the right to sublicense to third parties, and right to reproduce, fix, adapt, modify, translate, reformat, create derivative works from, manufacture, introduce into circulation, publish, distribute, sell, license, sublicense, transfer, rent, lease, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, or provide access to electronically, broadcast, communicate to the public by telecommunication, display, perform, enter into computer memory, and use and practice such User Content as well as all modified and derivative works thereof. To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you may have in any User Content. Basically, once you’ve uploaded something onto the B.Net and if it’s popular they can take your idea, modify it a bit and put it up for money on their own map marketplace. # Map "Marketplace" (no more "free maps", by everyone for everyone like in the first StarCraft or WarCraft 3, they got IG shops you can pay money for 3rd party maps in, and the authors even get A PORTION of the earnings, how generous of you Blizzard) http://kotaku.com/5343006/blizzard-you-may-sell-your-starcraft-2-maps-on-battlenet-eventuallyRemember all of those free Blizzard maps for WarCraft 3, Blizzard made out of customer friendliness and to build up even more of a loyal fanbase? http://classic.battle.net/war3/maps/Well… not anymore… # They’re going to nickle-and-dime people for „features“ like creating Custom Tournaments/Leagues. Wonder why there’s still no chat even though it seems like a simple feature? It’s probably because it might cost something to keep a “Clan” chat-channel or similar open: http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/190/StarCraftIIDevelopersInterviewedQ u o t e: So what's Battle.net all about and how is it different? The new Battle.net will completely revolutionise the current version, but Blizzard is still looking to making this experience free for anyone buying StarCraft II or future games that use Battle.net. One idea which has been discussed in different iterations is microtransactions, meaning the service is free, but added value services like starting a custom tournament, league, or the like would cost a small amount of money. # Facebook like "ID-page" so you can "distinguish" yourself, includes your Real Name and mail address if you put it in for Payment Details, which is awesome for Phishers, Hackers and Spammers alike... # Actual Facebook integration, personally I don’t want a “platform” to be bundled with the games I want to play, that I’m being forced to use and I don’t need Stats about how often and how long I’ve been to the toilet, I just want separate chat channels with a simple friends list and simple /invite /ignore /add /remove features like back in the day to be able to play the game and that’s about it… In general, be wary of marketing people using the word “platform” to describe something… almost nothing good came of it, X-Box Live, Steam, Facebook Platform etc. are described as “platforms” and they always come with additional DRM, microtransactions and often even subscription fees. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24732Q u o t e: "There is no better opportunity to launch this strategic initiative than through the launch of StarCraft II," said Kotick on the call. "The Battle.net platform is an investment in the future of gaming, and an opportunity that we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on." - Bobby Kotick # More ads (thanks to contract with Massive - company for commercials owned by Microsoft), they also collect your IP and "standard information" http://community.microsoftadvertising.com/blogs/analytics/archive/2009/08/25/massive-s-in-game-advertising-season-kick-off.aspxQ u o t e: Through an agreement with Blizzard Entertainment, Massive is the exclusive advertising service provider for the World of Warcraft community web sites as well as the Battle.net online gaming service. A newly redesigned Battle.net platform will launch with StarCraft II in 2010, for which Massive will also be the exclusive advertising service provider. # No LAN or playing with friends anymore, everyone HAS to be logged in to the great Overlord hivemind B.Net 2.0 and every person HAS to have a key of the game (and every following Add-On) to be able to play with friends or family. Remember those times when a friend came over and you played a few rounds of StarCraft over LAN or you tried to introduce someone, that wasn’t really interested/hadn’t played the game before to it the same way and Blizzard didn’t say or do anything to prevent that? Well not anymore… cause to be able to do that you’ll have to have bought all the products and gone through a lengthy process of creating a B.Net 2.0 Account and Register the keys to it… # Selling one game as a 3-parter (if the first part costs 60$/60€... what do you think the so-called "Expansions" will cost? If you think they’re below 40$/€ you're out of your mind xD) To play the full multiplayer (with all units and buildings etc.) and play competitively you will have to buy all 3 and register all 3 CD-Keys. http://www.starcraft2.com/faq.xmlQ u o t e: If I buy StarCraft II but don't buy any of the expansion sets, will I still be able to play online? Yes. This will work similarly to Warcraft III and the original StarCraft, which maintained separate online gaming lobbies and ladders for expansion set players and players with the base Warcraft III or StarCraft. How will the expansion sets impact multiplayer gameplay? The expansion sets will add new content to each race for use in multiplayer matches. This could include additions such as new units, abilities, and structures, along with new maps and Battle.net updates. # Achievements (yay, thanks for keeping track of how awesome I am Blizzard... everyone's been eagerly awaiting those on the PC) As much as I might actually like the actual game and want to pay for it, this is just too much (marketing) crap to sift through, to be able to enjoy the good parts. Thanks for all the good gaming experiences you’ve delivered in the past Blizzard and good luck. Just wanted to state for the record that this is not my post, I just found it on the Battle.net forums and linked to it. Ahh, sorry about that then! - My plain text copy didn't save the link, so that piece of information was lost. Would you happen to have the link on hand? I'll edit it in. I posted the thread due to Coma's post, not the other way around. I also verified the ToS myself before looking foolish, and it's right. Here's the original thread he references: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?sid=5010&topicId=25026564417Mine, as I said, has been deleted along with my temp ban for "trolling".
Fixed my original post. =3
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On May 25 2010 13:47 InfiniteIce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:45 Spawkuring wrote:On May 25 2010 13:42 InfiniteIce wrote:On May 25 2010 13:40 shindigs wrote:On May 25 2010 13:38 Kantutan wrote:
Blizzard isn't all evil and out to get you, thanks. Yup, that's Google =P I never seem to worry because my information isn't worth selling, and if I get email spammed there's a spam folder and spam blocker if I need it. Also I don't give out some real info anyway For nerds, sometimes it's surprising when you don't see the simple solutions. Have you games always been integrated with a service provided by a company that has been in the media for numerous privacy issues? Facebook.. Don't use Facebook then. Just about any online website, service, or even your ISP, has more than enough info on anything you've ever done on the internet, and could easily abuse it given the chance. The only thing you can do is go with the ones who are rated as the most trustworthy. Facebook is obviously not reliable, so don't entrust your personal info with it. Not a solution. Why should I be forced to choose between services? Additionally, facebook surpassed myspace and became one of the top 5 most visited sites on the internet BEFORE their privacy concerns were reported in the media. Do you really think this is a valid post you made?
It's not a solution. It's just reality.
You have no privacy on the internet. That is unavoidable. Keep it under wraps as much as possible, but don't think you can avoid it. Just go with the ones that can be trusted, avoid those who can't, and drop those who start to abuse that trust.
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On May 25 2010 13:45 Spawkuring wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:42 InfiniteIce wrote:On May 25 2010 13:40 shindigs wrote:On May 25 2010 13:38 Kantutan wrote:
Blizzard isn't all evil and out to get you, thanks. Yup, that's Google =P I never seem to worry because my information isn't worth selling, and if I get email spammed there's a spam folder and spam blocker if I need it. Also I don't give out some real info anyway For nerds, sometimes it's surprising when you don't see the simple solutions. Have you games always been integrated with a service provided by a company that has been in the media for numerous privacy issues? Facebook.. Don't use Facebook then. Just about any online website, service, or even your ISP, has more than enough info on anything you've ever done on the internet, and could easily abuse it given the chance. The only thing you can do is go with the ones who are rated as the most trustworthy. Facebook is obviously not reliable, so don't entrust your personal info with it.
From what i've heard , if you have facebook and your bnet signed up to the same email adress it automatically knows O.o
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I think the OP has a valid point, even though I think Blizzard was well justified in handing out a temp ban, given the tone of his post. Even if whoever put that in the EULA honestly only intends for it to be a legal CYA and there's no intention of selling personal information, bundling and selling the most popular user maps, or other actions that (I assume) most of us would take issue with, the problem is that they've said that they can, and there's nothing you can do about it.
I'm honestly surprised that so many people are saying "Oh, Blizzard wouldn't do that." If you've weighed the pros and cons and decided that the potential downsides to this EULA are outweighed by the ability to play SC2, then fine (and I will probably fall into this camp come retail). However, assuming that Blizzard won't do the things they've said they might just because they're nice people seems incredibly naive. It's similar to politics, when <insert your favorite party here> passes laws expanding their power. "But those laws are vague and ripe for abuse!" "Oh, they wouldn't do that." Even if you're right, what about in a few years when another party (or new Blizzard management) is in power. Are you so sure they won't "do evil" either? I think people should at least consider the pros and cons of the EULA instead of sticking their heads in the sand over the possible downsides.
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On May 25 2010 13:47 InfiniteIce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 13:45 Spawkuring wrote:On May 25 2010 13:42 InfiniteIce wrote:On May 25 2010 13:40 shindigs wrote:On May 25 2010 13:38 Kantutan wrote:
Blizzard isn't all evil and out to get you, thanks. Yup, that's Google =P I never seem to worry because my information isn't worth selling, and if I get email spammed there's a spam folder and spam blocker if I need it. Also I don't give out some real info anyway For nerds, sometimes it's surprising when you don't see the simple solutions. Have you games always been integrated with a service provided by a company that has been in the media for numerous privacy issues? Facebook.. Don't use Facebook then. Just about any online website, service, or even your ISP, has more than enough info on anything you've ever done on the internet, and could easily abuse it given the chance. The only thing you can do is go with the ones who are rated as the most trustworthy. Facebook is obviously not reliable, so don't entrust your personal info with it. Not a solution. Why should I be forced to choose between services? Additionally, facebook surpassed myspace and became one of the top 5 most visited sites on the internet BEFORE their privacy concerns were reported in the media. Little too late now for most people, I think. Do you really think this is a valid post you made?
To back-up my claim:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/facebook.com
World traffic rank: 2.
And that is exclusively for Facebook.com and I don't believe that even includes facebook in other countries.
Edit: I'd also like to add that while some people seem to think "Blizzard wouldn't do that"...
Would Activision?
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On May 25 2010 13:49 Aezoc wrote:
I think the OP has a valid point, even though I think Blizzard was well justified in handing out a temp ban, given the tone of his post. Even if whoever put that in the EULA honestly only intends for it to be a legal CYA and there's no intention of selling personal information, bundling and selling the most popular user maps, or other actions that (I assume) most of us would take issue with, the problem is that they've said that they can, and there's nothing you can do about it.
I'm honestly surprised that so many people are saying "Oh, Blizzard wouldn't do that." If you've weighed the pros and cons and decided that the potential downsides to this EULA are outweighed by the ability to play SC2, then fine (and I will probably fall into this camp come retail). However, assuming that Blizzard won't do the things they've said they might just because they're nice people seems incredibly naive. It's similar to politics, when <insert your favorite party here> passes laws expanding their power. "But those laws are vague and ripe for abuse!" "Oh, they wouldn't do that." Even if you're right, what about in a few years when another party (or new Blizzard management) is in power. Are you so sure they won't "do evil" either? I think people should at least consider the pros and cons of the EULA instead of sticking their heads in the sand over the possible downsides.
The reason why we say "Blizzard wouldn't do that" is because there would be a massive sales backlash if it came out. Bad word of mouth can and has caused the fall of many companies, and as they say, "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." It's very unlikely that they're going to do any massive privacy leaks because word would get out instantly if they did since they're such a well-known company. Of course it's not impossible, but it's unlikely.
Keep in mind that I'll be one of the first to abandon the Blizzard ship if such a thing happens, but it hasn't, therefore I'm not concerned.
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Zurich15328 Posts
This thread makes my head hurt.
This is an interesting point to talk about, so I'd be pleased if someone would go ahead and make a thread about this that isn't a huge pile of garbage.
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EPT
