The numbers inside parenthesis represent the player's record for the last 5 games played against the opponent's race in (W-L) format. The numbers between the above statistic represent the player's head to head record.
type-b's ZvZ isn't exactly the best out there. EffOrt can apparently win ZvJ. Since EffOrt isn't facing Yarnc, his kryptonite, today, then I think it's a safe bet based on his past performance that he won't choke. His play yesterday against Yarnc was proof of that.
Horang2's PvP is pretty good. He's beaten up Movie, Stork, and BeSt. Nbs... Well, let's just say that when you get rolled by Jaehoon, you have a problem.
This is the exact same thing as yesterday. Let's just hope that go.go doesn't 14 CC so we have a real game today. However, Iris is still solid in TvT, beating up Hwasin, Upmagic, and Nada. go.go's TvT isn't that bad really, it's just that Iris has shown much better play than go.go lately.
Is sKyHigh Leta's kryptonite? Perhaps. Or maybe it's because goliath drops suck... Who knows. In any case, both players are looking very solid at the moment, and I expect a top notch game from these two.
God it feels like forever since Yarnc played something other than ZvZ... Regardless, he's beaten both Jaedong and EffOrt at ZvZ, an indication that his ZvZ is S Class. Kwanro can occasionally take games off of other Zerg players, but looking at the epic comeback Yarnc made yesterday, his play is far more solid and consistent than Kwanro's play.
Oh my God!! Finally the first non-Mirror Match up!!! Unfortunately it doesn't look that exciting... If you saw Movie's game yesterday against Leta, you'll know that he definitely has what it takes to take down Terrans. Considering that he was probably preparing much more for the Ace match yesterday than his own game, I think it's expected that he's in really good shape right now for PvT. Justin is Justin. He just sucks in the big leagues.
A rematch? Oh my God PLEASE!!! I want to see Leta get roflstomped 0-2 again. skyHigh takes this so I can be indulged. IMO, these guys are pretty even in TvT skill.
Did you see Movie vs. Leta last night? Movie proved that he can throw down storms like a monster and win. Justin is like SUPER SUPER SUPER CHOBO Leta. No way he can win.
But if it comes to Ace because of cheese (always likely).
EffOrt goes early pool while type-b goes 12 pool. type-b gets spores to defend against EffOrt's mutas, then Effort just gets a few mutas, pulls drones off gas, and starts to pump lings. Effort uses his mutas to take potshots on type-b's lings while his lings overpower type-b's natural.
go.go goes for an early pressure on Iris. Iris goes 1 fac CC, but go.go denies Iris by placing mines right where the CC should go. Iris is contained in his main and can't get out. go.go uses his economic advantage to just power vultures and prevent Iris from ever taking his natural. Iris taps out after go.go places a CC in his natural and breaks his natural.
Both players go for an expo; no early aggression. Leta goes for more vultures while skyhigh only gets ~4 and gets tanks + goliaths. Skyhigh camps in his natural while he uses the 4 vultures to take out several SCVs at Leta's natural and stops mining there for a while. Skyhigh takes out Leta's rax and moves out. Skyhigh 'takes his third and Leta tries to do the same. Skyhigh again uses vultures to stop mining at Leta's natural and takes out a ton more SCVs this time. Skyhigh denies Leta's third for quite a while. Leta desperately attacks skyhigh's tanks that were stopping his third from going up with SCVs and a good portion of his forces. Skyhigh brings reinforcements and forces Leta back, but Leta took out enough of Skyhigh's forces to take his third. Skyhigh gets his fourth up. Skyhigh then proceeds to just push straight into Leta's natural, winning him the game.
I didn't watch all of this game because of Stork v Modesty (Lol everyone watch that), but Kwanro took out some Drones of Yarnc early with Lings. However, Yarnc showed some awesome Mutalisk control and came back to win the game. Kwanro landed how many scourge? Pretty much 0. Routine stomping really.
Movie goes aggressive and takes down Justin's tanks, but loses 2 goons to rines in a bunker. Movie almost loses a 3rd goon. Movie opts to go 2 base arbs, but Justin pushes out before arbs really come into play and stomps over Movie. Justin takes Movie's natural, builds CCs there, but Movie almost comes back into the game with recalls in Justin's main. Unfortunately, he doesn't have enough troops to take out Justin's main, so he GGs.
Just watch it. A nice aggressive TvT style by SkyHigh while Leta tries to use mass vultures to take the map. What ensues? Awesomeness. No epic moments, but worth the watch anyway.
Poll: Who do you think will win? (Vote): CJ Entus (Vote): Hite SPARKYZ
Poll: Match of the Day? (Vote): type-b vs. EffOrt (Vote): Horang2 vs. Nbs (Vote): go.go vs. Iris (Vote): Leta vs. sKyHigh (Vote): YellOw[ArnC] vs. Kwanro (Vote): Justin vs. Movie
Poll: Ace Match Necessary? (Vote): Ace Match (Vote): No Ace Match (Vote): 2 Ace Matches
I don't see Hite moving on. Yes they have a decent chance of going 3-3 if Leta can win against Skyhigh and I could see Leta winning the ace match again. But I definitely can't see Leta pulling through 3 clutch matches or Hite ending this 4-2 or better. Of course, I'm happy to be proven wrong :3
No ace match today, methinks. Hite (and even more so Leta) had their spirit crushed last night. It's tough for any team in any competition to overcome that kind of loss, and when you're talking about 19-22 y.o. guys that doesn't help either. 4-2 CJ win.
Yesterday I wanted to watch STX vs Khan because I thought the matchups were so much better. However I really want to see this match today because of Leta and his ability to bounce back from his 2 losses yesterday.
I just generally dislike any team that gets by on one player alone. Yes that includes Oz. I like the players themselves... Just not the team. Leta is an exception :D
On July 19 2009 11:48 p4NDemik wrote: No ace match today, methinks. Hite (and even more so Leta) had their spirit crushed last night. It's tough for any team in any competition to overcome that kind of loss, and when you're talking about 19-22 y.o. guys that doesn't help either. 4-2 CJ win.
O hai guys, since today's match for OGN channel is on Hite vs CJ, I will be livestreaming this rather than the STX vs Samsung I did yesterday! (besides they got 2 pplz for that)
So for someone who prefers a small quiet 50 ppl max limit environment of livestream for PL, you are always welcome and free to come!!!!
I wonder: what are the chances of seeing Yarnc in an ace match? His ZvT is top-notch, though not really an improvement over Leta's TvT. His ZvZ has recently become borderline S-class. His ZvP really isn't that bad either.
Am I on crack? No. Yarnc's ZvP is curiously schizophrenic. Against Jangbi and Stork, he's 3-14. Against everybody else, he's 30-24, which is decent, even if it includes very few wins against top players. He's 2-3 against Much, and has never played Movie. Much can be a top-level PvZer, but his play lately has been somewhat poor in non PvT. Movie... I don't know, but it would be interesting.
On July 19 2009 13:22 TwoStep wrote: Will the games end at nearly the same time again today like yesterday? I don't think this is so much of a spoiler since both starting games are ZvZ.
On July 19 2009 13:29 ArvickHero wrote: I really wish type-b would get rid of those glasses, they make him look so ridiculous and he looks good without them
maybe if he wanted to look good for you, he would, but he cares more about his eyes ^.~
On July 19 2009 13:18 Musoeun wrote: I wonder: what are the chances of seeing Yarnc in an ace match? His ZvT is top-notch, though not really an improvement over Leta's TvT. His ZvZ has recently become borderline S-class. His ZvP really isn't that bad either.
Am I on crack? No. Yarnc's ZvP is curiously schizophrenic. Against Jangbi and Stork, he's 3-14. Against everybody else, he's 30-24, which is decent, even if it includes very few wins against top players. He's 2-3 against Much, and has never played Movie. Much can be a top-level PvZer, but his play lately has been somewhat poor in non PvT. Movie... I don't know, but it would be interesting.
His ZvZ has never been and never will be "borderline S-class". He's just barely 50%, flukes some wins vs good players, loses sometimes vs bad players. Oh, 5-5 last 10. Just standard average ZvZ. His ZvT is possibly the world's best, top 3 min, but his other 2 MUs seriously lack.
On July 19 2009 13:18 Musoeun wrote: I wonder: what are the chances of seeing Yarnc in an ace match? His ZvT is top-notch, though not really an improvement over Leta's TvT. His ZvZ has recently become borderline S-class. His ZvP really isn't that bad either.
Am I on crack? No. Yarnc's ZvP is curiously schizophrenic. Against Jangbi and Stork, he's 3-14. Against everybody else, he's 30-24, which is decent, even if it includes very few wins against top players. He's 2-3 against Much, and has never played Movie. Much can be a top-level PvZer, but his play lately has been somewhat poor in non PvT. Movie... I don't know, but it would be interesting.
His ZvZ has never been and never will be "borderline S-class". He's just barely 50%, flukes some wins vs good players, loses sometimes vs bad players. Oh, 5-5 last 10. Just standard average ZvZ. His ZvT is possibly the world's best, top 3 min, but his other 2 MUs seriously lack.
Except that Yarnc is like a curse to Effort.
In head-to-head, Yarnc is 3-1 against Effort. Yarnc also knocked Effort out of OSL by beating Jaedong, which is funny because that's the only time Yarnc has ever lost to Effort.
How Yarnc would fair against Kwanro, who is 1-0 over Yarnc in head-to-head, is a different story.
Yarnc seems to me like the kind of guy whose record is extremely stylistically determined. He rapes one player consistently and then gets raped consistently by another and it has very little to do with how good overall either player is doing.
gogo went for 2 fact vultures, forced iris to lift off his cc, but was able to hold his ramp. Then there was another big battle, but iris pulled scvs to defend and somehow defended it.
Now gogo has launched another raid, forced another liftoff, is badly outnumbered by gogo's massive vulture numbers.
On July 19 2009 14:15 integral wrote: You guys remember skyhigh made a CC against leta and know that's why go.go just did it right? It's not about BM, it's about team loyalty... ffs.
On July 19 2009 14:12 ArvickHero wrote: Somewhere in one of these remaining sets, we are going to see a revenge BM ceremony from CJ
That would be stupid, this was a revenge BM on Leta's behalf... the guy above me just said that but I feel it needs to be repeated. Props to go.go for sticking up for his teammate
On July 19 2009 14:15 integral wrote: You guys remember skyhigh made a CC against leta and know that's why go.go just did it right? It's not about BM, it's about team loyalty... ffs.
Given that it's go.go, at the very least it was a combination of the two.
On July 19 2009 14:15 integral wrote: You guys remember skyhigh made a CC against leta and know that's why go.go just did it right? It's not about BM, it's about team loyalty... ffs.
i also remember gogo making a CC against BeSt before as well... may be about loyalty, but i also know thats just how gogo plays.
its just weird when skyhigh does it cause its the first time ive seen it from him.
On July 19 2009 14:15 integral wrote: You guys remember skyhigh made a CC against leta and know that's why go.go just did it right? It's not about BM, it's about team loyalty... ffs.
What are you talking about, gogo always does the BM CC, regardless of whether his teammate was bm'd before
On July 19 2009 14:15 integral wrote: You guys remember skyhigh made a CC against leta and know that's why go.go just did it right? It's not about BM, it's about team loyalty... ffs.
i also remember gogo making a CC against BeSt before as well... may be about loyalty, but i also know thats just how gogo plays.
its just weird when skyhigh does it cause its the first time ive seen it from him.
On July 19 2009 14:23 Zozma wrote: Leta is building the same number of SCVs as SkyHigh, so SkyHigh is behind. I wonder what he'll do to try and make up for it?
On July 19 2009 14:23 Zozma wrote: Leta is building the same number of SCVs as SkyHigh, so SkyHigh is behind. I wonder what he'll do to try and make up for it?
Probably put down a barracks and refinery in conjunction at 12 supply. Will his strategem work?
Both players with FE, I don't think they want it to be an early game, this one may be the classic divide the map in half and play with dropships TvT. That would be dope.
2 vults comming for skyhigh to harras leta, stops mining for a second, third fac is going down for leta and skyhigh, leta is pumping pure vults while skyhigh is going tank gol rofl skyhigh walks into mines with three gols which just live
Skyhigh takes out Leta's rax. Leta is planting mines in his main to guard against drops. Skyhigh looks poised to take a third. He might just be pushing instead. Who knows.
Skyhigh trying to push up a ramp. It's not working out well. He retreats.
leta looks panicky, skyhigh totally relaxed -- looks like a repeat performance of last night. leta is one of my favorite players, so it's hard to see him like this.
in other news, skyhigh's TvT is at 64%, comparable to leta's. Skyhigh needs to play more games for that to be statistically significant though.
Leta loses several vultures for who knows what reason to skyhigh's tanks. Is able to take out one of skyhigh's tanks before his vultures get pwnt. A stand off on 2 sections of the map.
SKYHIGH CHARGING WITH VULTURES INTO LETA'S TANK LINE!!!
On July 19 2009 14:34 Mystlord wrote: Skyhigh takes out most of Leta's forces! Skyhigh definitely coming out on top there. Skyhigh takes a fourth while Leta still can't take his third.
Skyhigh outclassing Leta two games in a row here, also beating Fantasy on the same map earlier. In spite of some shaky losses (Really on Destination), it's starting to look like he's the #2 TvT player right now (behind the monster Flash of course).
On July 19 2009 14:41 Titusmaster6 wrote: Wow I was just staring at the minimap the whole time with my mouth open. Skyhigh was ridiculous
Exactly. How did he have the material to wall him in that early in the game? He just took over. Its a credit to some serious serious mutlitasking, there is no other way. Looking at his screen probably would make most people feel dizzy.
Damn, I can't watch this match like I want to, but I sure hope Kwanro manages to pull off a win. And then Justin vs Movie should be simple enough. You could put 2008 Savior in a time machine and send him forward to today and he would still be able to beat Justin. 4-2 CJ, come on guys!
this is why I like Flash than the other terrans. Because when Flash loses, he makes sure he fails in the most retarded fashion possible making me angry more than sad.
On July 19 2009 14:53 MrHoon wrote: this is why I like Flash than the other terrans. Because when Flash loses, he makes sure he fails in the most retarded fashion possible making me angry more than sad.
Hahahahaha are you referring to his 14CC obsession?
I think SkyHigh is doing it to keep the momentum in CJ's corner. SkyHigh has balls. He steps up to the plate, delivers, and then dishes out psychological damage.
Leta may have to play in as many as two more matches. By crippling Leta's self-esteem, he may well win this for CJ.
On July 19 2009 14:53 MrHoon wrote: this is why I like Flash than the other terrans. Because when Flash loses, he makes sure he fails in the most retarded fashion possible making me angry more than sad.
On July 19 2009 14:53 MrHoon wrote: this is why I like Flash than the other terrans. Because when Flash loses, he makes sure he fails in the most retarded fashion possible making me angry more than sad.
Hahahahaha are you referring to his 14CC obsession?
14CC, no Turrets, crazy no-units mech build, 7 CC 1 Fac, the list goes on.
Awesome to see Kwanro lose :D. The only thing that would make this better is seeing Movie lose next! That isn't likely though against Justin. Interested to see who Hite sends out in Ace.
Is it just me or does anyone else notice that leta starts sucking everytime TL writes something about him. Like there was that "Ace match bonjwa" post a few days ago and right before winners league there was a thread called "On Fire" i think, and then I'm pretty sure leta didn't do as well after that.
On July 19 2009 15:05 OreoBoi wrote: Is it just me or does anyone else notice that leta starts sucking everytime TL writes something about him. Like there was that "Ace match bonjwa" post a few days ago and right before winners league there was a thread called "On Fire" i think, and then I'm pretty sure leta didn't do as well after that.
more like leta always gets more credit then he deserves
hey idra if you're still reading this thread how much do you get to practice with the A-team? sorry if this is a redundant question you've answered before
On July 19 2009 15:05 food wrote: so theres an ace regardless?
yes, potentially 2
no, theres only a normal ace match if this ends 3-3 and theres only the final ace match if hite wins todays bo7
1+1=2? Holy crap excess posting fail.
On July 19 2009 15:10 integral wrote: hey idra if you're still reading this thread how much do you get to practice with the A-team? sorry if this is a redundant question you've answered before
Wow, what a genius snide remark. No one's thought of that before, especially considering the A-team are at the playoffs right now.
On July 19 2009 15:10 integral wrote: hey idra if you're still reading this thread how much do you get to practice with the A-team? sorry if this is a redundant question you've answered before
Wow, what a genius snide remark. No one's thought of that before, especially considering the A-team are at the playoffs right now.
what was snide about my genuine question?
edit: I was just wondering if he got to practice TvT with skyhigh any for these playoffs, that's all
On July 19 2009 15:05 food wrote: so theres an ace regardless?
yes, potentially 2
no, theres only a normal ace match if this ends 3-3 and theres only the final ace match if hite wins todays bo7
1+1=2? Holy crap excess posting fail.
On July 19 2009 15:10 integral wrote: hey idra if you're still reading this thread how much do you get to practice with the A-team? sorry if this is a redundant question you've answered before
Wow, what a genius snide remark. No one's thought of that before, especially considering the A-team are at the playoffs right now.
On July 19 2009 15:05 food wrote: so theres an ace regardless?
yes, potentially 2
no, theres only a normal ace match if this ends 3-3 and theres only the final ace match if hite wins todays bo7
1+1=2? Holy crap excess posting fail.
On July 19 2009 15:10 integral wrote: hey idra if you're still reading this thread how much do you get to practice with the A-team? sorry if this is a redundant question you've answered before
Wow, what a genius snide remark. No one's thought of that before, especially considering the A-team are at the playoffs right now.
what was snide about my genuine question?
lol, seriously. I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Movie goes for another recall. Still barely any troops. This time, Movie's going to do some real damage. Justin is pulling his forces back. Movie is killing all of Justin's SCVs. Forces finally spawn for Justin, and the recall is cleaned up.
On July 19 2009 15:37 Pooshlmer wrote: Wait, for the normal ace they do the dramatic reveal and for the super ace they do the "fake out, get up stuff"?
They do that at the MBC game studio, not at the OGN one.
On July 19 2009 15:37 Pooshlmer wrote: Wait, for the normal ace they do the dramatic reveal and for the super ace they do the "fake out, get up stuff"?
I really think Yarnc's experience is going to help him out. I see the weight of the season crusing down on Effort. I hope he can handle it. GOOOOO ALIENZERG
On July 19 2009 15:40 Holgerius wrote: ZvZ should be banned from OSL/MSL-finals and Proleague ace games. Really. It needs to be epic, and ZvZ is never (at least not very often) epic.
effort has this, he has an expo and is catching up fast in muta numbers yarnc adn effort engge, yarnc chasing down effort, both scourge hits, effort comes out way ahead GG effort wins
Effort's lings in that game were unbelievable. He stalled for time and went back in time and time again to snipe Drones and distract Yarnc. Just absolutely unbelievable play by the indisputable #2 Zerg.
On July 19 2009 15:40 Holgerius wrote: ZvZ should be banned from OSL/MSL-finals and Proleague ace games. Really. It needs to be epic, and ZvZ is never (at least not very often) epic.
??
This was an awesome and epic end to a nice series.
And Crunchums: Yarnc went overgass then pooled after so Effort was perfectly fine with 12hat. =p
Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Yarnac had one attack chance to win when he had the ling and muta advantage and tried to snipe the sunken.
Had yarnac sniped the sunken before he sent his lings in (which he could of quite easily) his lings would of swarmed over the nat and taken it out. Instead he sends his lings in first and they get wiped out by lings + sunken with minimal help from the mutas.
Sad to see CJ win but we'll see how they do in future MUs.
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
Again, he had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's lings got to his base. Yarnc got, what, one drone? Maybe two?
On July 19 2009 15:40 Holgerius wrote: ZvZ should be banned from OSL/MSL-finals and Proleague ace games. Really. It needs to be epic, and ZvZ is never (at least not very often) epic.
??
This was an awesome and epic end to a nice series.
And Crunchums: Yarnc went overgass then pooled after so Effort was perfectly fine with 12hat. =p
I must agree that this game specifically was somewhat epic, but I stand by my opinion.
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
On July 19 2009 16:06 Garnet wrote: Stupid format. Hite should be the winners.
erm...no.
Hite won 4-2 today, CJ won 4-3 yesterday. The only other way would be to play the 7th game and assuming THIS was it it would be 4-3 in favor of Hite and they'd just play ANOTHER Ace match. Do you honestly think Hite would win the next match? Be serious :/
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
I wouldn't say yarnc was ahead because of the build order, he killed one drone while Effort secured his natural. And Yarnc's zvz is far from incredible, he's pretty good, but not even close to JD or Effort.
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
11pool is not a BO win vs 12 hatch.
The guy said 9 pool in the post so I think thats why everyone was like :'(
in one sense, hite didn't dissapoint, they had a much weaker lineup and a slumping leta vs CJ. Also now the hite team can focus all their energy on one of them winning the OSL.
As a neutral fan, I think the following format would make most sense: Treat the two bo7 + possible super ace as a BO 15. In other words, the team with 8 wins advances.... so there should be one more ace
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
11pool is not a BO win vs 12 hatch.
The guy said 9 pool in the post so I think thats why everyone was like :'(
12 hatch can't keep his nat on a 2 player map vs 9 pool. Even overpool. wait. check vod tmw to confirm.
On July 19 2009 15:40 Holgerius wrote: ZvZ should be banned from OSL/MSL-finals and Proleague ace games. Really. It needs to be epic, and ZvZ is never (at least not very often) epic.
??
This was an awesome and epic end to a nice series.
And Crunchums: Yarnc went overgass then pooled after so Effort was perfectly fine with 12hat. =p
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
I wouldn't say yarnc was ahead because of the build order, he killed one drone while Effort secured his natural. And Yarnc's zvz is far from incredible, he's pretty good, but not even close to JD or Effort.
Serious? He's won the majority of his encounters with EffOrt. He's beaten Jaedong. He's pretty good ZvZ.
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
11pool is not a BO win vs 12 hatch.
The guy said 9 pool in the post so I think thats why everyone was like :'(
12 hatch can't keep his nat on a 2 player map vs 9 pool. Even overpool. wait. check vod tmw to confirm.
right...which is why I said oh nooo because Yarnc should have raped Effort's nat
On July 19 2009 16:04 Jaksiel wrote: Effort was ahead for most of the game, I don't know why people are so surprised. He had Lings ready to defend by the time Yarnc's first lings were in his base, Spored up in plenty of time, and dealt a heavy economic blow to Yarnc.
Do you realize how hard it is to lose the build order rock paper scissors, and then win, versus an incredible ZvZer like Yarnc?
I wouldn't say yarnc was ahead because of the build order, he killed one drone while Effort secured his natural. And Yarnc's zvz is far from incredible, he's pretty good, but not even close to JD or Effort.
Serious? He's won the majority of his encounters with EffOrt. He's beaten Jaedong. He's pretty good ZvZ.
Add losing to Hyuk and Roro to that and you get a pretty inconsistent zvz, not enough to be called incredible.
On July 19 2009 16:10 zgl wrote: As a neutral fan, I think the following format would make most sense: Treat the two bo7 + possible super ace as a BO 15. In other words, the team with 8 wins advances.... so there should be one more ace
I agree with this. It's stupid that both teams won an equal amount of games, yet CJ go through. Retarded.
On July 19 2009 16:10 zgl wrote: As a neutral fan, I think the following format would make most sense: Treat the two bo7 + possible super ace as a BO 15. In other words, the team with 8 wins advances.... so there should be one more ace
I agree with this. It's stupid that both teams won an equal amount of games, yet CJ go through. Retarded.
Leta.
How boring would a BO15 be, seriously.
These super ace matches are INTENSE! Nothing more exciting than that. And yes, I would say that regardless of whether CJ or some other wins.
What a game. This new style of using spores and zerglings to counter 1 hatch muta is really interesting, yet so risky. YarnC's biggest mistake came when he tried to force his lings into Effort's main. Throwing away those lings caused him to lose drones, which made him use his mutalisk in a defensive manner when he should be pressuring EffOrt (if he didn't lose the sunken he probably would have stayed ahead). But yea, that was definitely a close match.
This format is great. Teams with a lot of depth get an opportunity to win two BO7s, and teams that are more star-heavy can aim for the split and the ace match. It's no gimme that a deep team can pull out both BO7s, and it's no gimme that a superstar can pull out an ace match (honestly each of the four remaining teams has at least one superstar who can hold his own against any other player in the world). It's really a great format.
lol first off gas before pool will not allow u to kill 12 hat, its virtually impossible. Even overpool can be defended, not talking about gas before pool
then firstborn said yellow isnt as good zvz as JD or effort, youre horribly wrong
spores/lings vs 1 hat muta isnt anything new, this is the only way to defend if you expanded, classic. Plenty of replays out there
On July 19 2009 16:23 ArvickHero wrote: only the losing team complains about the format. See the STX vs Khan thread
If it were the other way around, the whiners wouldn't be saying anything.
The format reminds me of my friend's tennis league. It's basically two sets and if tied, it goes to a winner takes all single game. Netting the individual games of the two games and taking the total is just stupid talk.
On July 19 2009 16:10 zgl wrote: As a neutral fan, I think the following format would make most sense: Treat the two bo7 + possible super ace as a BO 15. In other words, the team with 8 wins advances.... so there should be one more ace
I agree with this. It's stupid that both teams won an equal amount of games, yet CJ go through. Retarded.
Leta.
It's kind of funny that someone with a Khan icon is saying this.
Yarnc is good ZvZ... he goes through ups and downs, but anyone who paid attention to the games he played these past 2 days should see that right now he's on an "up."
Leta is not slumping either. He lost 3 games, 2 to the same player (someone who clearly has his number -- SkyHigh is 3-0 vs Leta and both the ones I saw were awfully one-sided) and 1 in an epic slugfest against Movie, who played the game of his life. Leta got sniped. SkyHigh won the mental battle and screwed over Leta's frame of mind. It's as simple as that.
On July 19 2009 16:37 Mortality wrote: Yarnc is good ZvZ... he goes through ups and downs, but anyone who paid attention to the games he played these past 2 days should see that right now he's on an "up."
Leta is not slumping either. He lost 3 games, 2 to the same player (someone who clearly has his number -- SkyHigh is 3-0 vs Leta and both the ones I saw were awfully one-sided) and 1 in an epic slugfest against Movie, who played the game of his life. Leta got sniped. SkyHigh won the mental battle and screwed over Leta's frame of mind. It's as simple as that.
Skyhigh doesn't only have Leta's number, but he's the better TvT player.
Man, I wish there was a Starcraft tv show or manga. I can just imagine Jaedong in a sinisterly dark room watching Effort win and muttering "I'll be waiting." Then it pans to Savior just receiving the news of Khan winning and immediately matched with half panels with FBH.
On July 19 2009 16:39 ccou wrote: Man, I wish there was a Starcraft tv show or manga. I can just imagine Jaedong in a sinisterly dark room watching Effort win and muttering "I'll be waiting." Then it pans to Savior just receiving the news of Khan winning and immediately matched with half panels with FBH.
nice! effort rules. i think it was close until yarnc took all those hits for nothing trying to run by, effort really wasn't in bad shape during that game.
This means the only thing Sparkyz has to look forward to is the individual leagues... where they are forced to have a 3 team kills. On top of suffering a ceremony heavy loss, they have to endure massive in-team tension. I can really see Sparkyz get put on tilt if whoever they send to the OSL finals loses.
On July 19 2009 17:06 ccou wrote: This means the only thing Sparkyz has to look forward to is the individual leagues... where they are forced to have a 3 team kills. On top of suffering a ceremony heavy loss, they have to endure massive in-team tension. I can really see Sparkyz get put on tilt if whoever they send to the OSL finals loses.
Yeah, we'll see next season how Hite has recovered.
Ugghh disappointed that Sparkyz didn't advance but judging by the results they definitely went down fighting.
I'm not really angry that the format actually led to an equal amount of wins for CJ and Sparkyz yet CJ advanced. Winning the bo7s is similar to winning two PL matches which is what the whole season was like expect WL. If anything I'd like a third bo7 instead of super ace, but that would make a really exhausting playoff for teams that have to work up.
The OSL team kill situation sucks (even it's certain they will be getting help from other teams), but there should be no problem as long as Sparkyz does bring back the title. Which I'm hoping the whole team will support the Sparkyz player that does advance to the final even though they've lost.
On July 19 2009 16:23 ArvickHero wrote: only the losing team complains about the format. See the STX vs Khan thread
If it were the other way around, the whiners wouldn't be saying anything.
The format reminds me of my friend's tennis league. It's basically two sets and if tied, it goes to a winner takes all single game. Netting the individual games of the two games and taking the total is just stupid talk.
There has to be a winner at some point.
Unlike Tennis you don't exactly have the luxury to keep throwing players out there to play starcraft.... mental fatigue factors pretty heavily into the equation here.
I don't get it. Entus won first match 4-3, Sparkyz won second match 4-2, which means it's 7-6 for Sparkyz, so why did they need a superacematch to decide who's the winner is? Sparkyz had more games won than Entus... Here it seems that it doesn't matter if you win a match with a good score or a bad score (for instance, 4-2 is not better than 4-3, even though it is).
On July 19 2009 20:15 bao235 wrote: I don't get it. Entus won first match 4-3, Sparkyz won second match 4-2, which means it's 7-6 for Sparkyz, so why did they need a superacematch to decide who's the winner is? Sparkyz had more games won than Entus... Here it seems that it doesn't matter if you win a match with a good score or a bad score (for instance, 4-2 is not better than 4-3, even though it is).
Since someone else referenced Tennis...
games, sets, match.
CJ won the first SET by winning the most games. hite won the second SET by winning the most games.
1 - 1 hite / CJ Set-wise.
super ace was the tiebreaker to determine who won the match.
I guess is how that was supposed to work. I don't necessarily agree with it but meh, I'm happy CJ won and I'm happy that CJ won because of Effort. :3
While yes its the same format as Tennis we all know that does that mean it should be used.. Tennis is 1v1 while this is a team game where every game should count imo. Shouldn't team depth be rewarded rather than coming down to 1 game? STX wiped the floor with Khan second match but in the end it didn't even matter.
man this sucks, CJ got their ass handed 2-4 and still got to advance, well congrats to them anyways!
gotta hand it to Hite still, with their best player(Leta) going 0-3 and Hite still being almost able to win the whole series.. Leta must feel like shit now after all the "im gonna prove im S-Class talk" :<
the superACE match was almost as nice as yesterdays yarnc vs effort, ofcourse the feeling to it was much more great!
On July 19 2009 16:39 ccou wrote: Man, I wish there was a Starcraft tv show or manga. I can just imagine Jaedong in a sinisterly dark room watching Effort win and muttering "I'll be waiting." Then it pans to Savior just receiving the news of Khan winning and immediately matched with half panels with FBH.
On July 19 2009 16:39 ccou wrote: Man, I wish there was a Starcraft tv show or manga. I can just imagine Jaedong in a sinisterly dark room watching Effort win and muttering "I'll be waiting." Then it pans to Savior just receiving the news of Khan winning and immediately matched with half panels with FBH.
It would be more like Jaedong, the cowl of his dark robes pulled low over his face, looking at Effort vs. Yarnc and saying, "You have not disappointed me, my apprentice."
On July 19 2009 17:26 BanZu wrote: Someone teach me to enjoy ZvZ properly :[
Honestly, if that match didn't do it for you, you've got no hope.
On July 19 2009 20:15 bao235 wrote: Here it seems that it doesn't matter if you win a match with a good score or a bad score (for instance, 4-2 is not better than 4-3, even though it is).
Why is this difficult? It works this way in StarCraft. You don't win more if you beat someone in 5 minutes. You don't win more by having a 30 minute epic duel that uses every expansion on the map. You win the game, you get a win. Period. People may remember the 30 minute epic duel more, but what matters is that you won.
Same goes for sets. You win the set, you get a win. Period. CJ won set 1; they get one point. Sparkyz won set 2; they get one point. They weren't playing one gigantic 15 game match; they played 2 sets with a tiebreaker game to determine the winner.
On July 19 2009 20:31 infinity2k9 wrote: While yes its the same format as Tennis we all know that does that mean it should be used.. Tennis is 1v1 while this is a team game where every game should count imo. Shouldn't team depth be rewarded rather than coming down to 1 game? STX wiped the floor with Khan second match but in the end it didn't even matter.
It did matter; it forced a tiebreaker. If they'd lost set 2, there wouldn't have even been that.
And maybe if STX had wiped the floor with Khan in the first set, it wouldn't have had to come down to a tiebreaker. Where was their "depth" then?
I don't see what's the point of having a deep roster if some of your good players also need to practice for individual leagues and a Bo9 would be better to show "depth".
On July 20 2009 05:24 NicolBolas wrote: It did matter; it forced a tiebreaker. If they'd lost set 2, there wouldn't have even been that.
And maybe if STX had wiped the floor with Khan in the first set, it wouldn't have had to come down to a tiebreaker. Where was their "depth" then?
Do you believe STX is infact the weaker and less deep team then? To me and i think most people, would agree that they outplayed them and its a shame that it went down to a single ace match and 1 clever build order win from 2 whole bo7s. I don't particularly think its unfair just a shame that STX didn't go through.
On July 20 2009 07:03 infinity2k9 wrote: Do you believe STX is infact the weaker and less deep team then?
If the Proleague rules existed to only allow the team with the most depth to progress, then they would have rules that prevent you from using your top 2 KeSPA ranked players outside of ace matches or something. Or playoff matches would be one big 15-game series with a single ace match rather than 2 sets + a tiebreaker. Or, rather than scoring points, every regular season Proleague win/loss would be tallied up to determine the standings, rather than having matches as a Bo5 where each Bo5 win/loss is tallied (so that 3-2 wins are less significant than 3-0 wins).
None of these are the rules.
The Proleague isn't about which team is the absolute deepest. As with any other sporting event, it's about winning, on that day, with what you have. Khan beat STX on day 1. That put them down. It doesn't matter how Khan beat them; it doesn't detract from Khan's victory on day 1 that it was 4-3. Khan got 4 wins, so they win the set.
If you want to argue that each individual match win/loss should be tallied and accumulated, go ahead. There are sports where they use a point system like that. I personally prefer things as they are, where minor details like whether a particular match was 3-2 or 4-3 can be ignored in favor of the team's victory. It is, after all, a team game.
You don't need to have such a long post to explain the rules again we all get the rules, and you didn't answer the question anyway. As i said i don't think its unfair just i would have preferred bo14 or whatever format considering STX played better they deserved a win. That's all.
I agree with infinity2k9. The format is pretty stupid. In any sport where you have two matches and each team win one match what matter are the sets/goals (whatever team sport you think about). Only if those were equal I would understand the merit of super ace-match.
Or freaking play 3 bo7.
Samsung got outplayed on the 2nd day by a team of STX not an individual player. Now Khan advances because of individual player, Jangbi, who was able to win the "super ace-match". Khan advanced even though they went 6-7 over two days (5-7 if don't count super ace match that in my opinion shouldn't have taken place). So which team was better?
And before someone will flame me, I don't particularly ether team but think that STX deserved more to advance.
On July 20 2009 19:51 infinity2k9 wrote: You don't need to have such a long post to explain the rules again we all get the rules, and you didn't answer the question anyway.
The question assumes that I believe that the deepest team should advance.
The Proleague rules as they currently stand provide a pretty reasonable balance between team depth and individual greatness. Two Bo7's is strongly biased in favor of team depth. The Super-Ace match is biased in favor of individual greatness. A deep team should be able to win 2 Bo7's against a significantly less deep team. The idea of the Super-Ace match is that it allows the not-quite-as-deep team to be able to compete.
On July 20 2009 05:24 NicolBolas wrote: It did matter; it forced a tiebreaker. If they'd lost set 2, there wouldn't have even been that.
And maybe if STX had wiped the floor with Khan in the first set, it wouldn't have had to come down to a tiebreaker. Where was their "depth" then?
Do you believe STX is infact the weaker and less deep team then? To me and i think most people, would agree that they outplayed them and its a shame that it went down to a single ace match and 1 clever build order win from 2 whole bo7s. I don't particularly think its unfair just a shame that STX didn't go through.
STX is definitely the deeper team. Are they a weaker team? Probably not. Does this format give STX less chance to move on? No, it helps them, I already did the calculations.
Most people's complaints are that 1 game shouldn't decide an entire series. But they need to bear in mind that this format actually gives STX a better chance to move on so if they complain, they can't say how the format or the 1 game made it more flukey.
No, STX underperformed in the first series, losing to great x2, miracle, and jangbi. They sure as hell did not "outplay" Khan in the first series or in the ace match.
Note, I'm saying that complaining that the entire 2 Bo7s shouldn't be decided on one match is a fair opinion, but saying that it allowed Khan to fluke their way to the next round is incorrect, biased, and just wrong.
Guess what? The deepest or strongest team doesn't always win. There's a reason the games are played, we don't see a match like Ganzi vs JD or Effort vs Iron and just give the win to them.
EPT
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