• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:03
CET 20:03
KST 04:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea Soulkey's decision to leave C9 How much money terran looses from gas steal? mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group B 2026 Changsha Offline Cup
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Darkest Dungeon Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Cricket [SPORT] 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1480 users

[GOM] Ro16, Day 4 - Page 21

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 Next All
boredcouch
Profile Joined May 2008
United States110 Posts
June 28 2009 10:50 GMT
#401
I'd like to say that if you are making mistakes and your opponent exploits them, then you are getting outplayed. That is all.
starcraft is the greatest game ever
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 10:51:51
June 28 2009 10:51 GMT
#402
On June 28 2009 19:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 19:48 SuperArc wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Worst games possible for Violet. Goes into a super Z favored map and proxies because of it, messes up, loses. Cuts one too many a corner on HBR and gets killed via runby. Nowadays he's second only to Bisu when he gets going in the midgame, but neither game came close to getting that far.

I think he's got it in him to take down top level zergs, but these games were just not beneficial to how he plays.


If his midgame is so good, it makes us wonder why he doesn't decide to get to midgame?


It's like you completely ignored my first three sentences.

I know you're a CJ fan and you're happy that Effort won, but condescension is a pretty mean path to take in the face of a Violet fan. =(


No, not at all. All I am asking is why should a midgame level player decide to cheese? Or play greedy and risky?
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
June 28 2009 10:51 GMT
#403
On June 28 2009 19:41 Rostam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 19:38 Malinor wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:35 iLoveKT wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:34 Malinor wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:32 samachking wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs


Wtf are you saying? 2 cheese games means Violet sucks PvZ? Let the games last over 10 min then talk.


Well, if Violet did not play horrible, then the game could have lasted longer than 10 minutes.

what makes you say violet played horrible in the 2nd game?


I dislike greedy play. 1 cannon without scouting information is just bad in my opinion.

I really got confused over the Violet hype the last weeks on these forums, people comparing him to Bisu and stuff. Way to go.


Should I start linking games where Bisu gets owned by early speedlings?

Mistakes happen, acting like those games suddenly prove all of Violet's other wins mean nothing is ridiculous.

Hmm Bisu has been quite good at nullifying speedlings in his base lately with some superb probe micro.... I think there was one game where like 6-8 speedlings got in but they didn't really do any damage due to Bisu's excellent defense
Writerptrk
5unrise
Profile Joined May 2009
New Zealand646 Posts
June 28 2009 10:53 GMT
#404
On June 28 2009 19:51 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 19:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:48 SuperArc wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Worst games possible for Violet. Goes into a super Z favored map and proxies because of it, messes up, loses. Cuts one too many a corner on HBR and gets killed via runby. Nowadays he's second only to Bisu when he gets going in the midgame, but neither game came close to getting that far.

I think he's got it in him to take down top level zergs, but these games were just not beneficial to how he plays.


If his midgame is so good, it makes us wonder why he doesn't decide to get to midgame?


It's like you completely ignored my first three sentences.

I know you're a CJ fan and you're happy that Effort won, but condescension is a pretty mean path to take in the face of a Violet fan. =(


No, not at all. All I am asking is why should a midgame level player decide to cheese? Or play greedy and risky?


yeah if he is confident he can take effort on and hold his own in a standard macro fashion why would he take these risks?
Magic84
Profile Joined October 2008
Russian Federation1381 Posts
June 28 2009 10:54 GMT
#405
On June 28 2009 19:49 Bifur wrote:
Golden Age of Zergs

There are really like just 3 zergs that do great, you need more for golden age i think.
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
June 28 2009 10:56 GMT
#406
On June 28 2009 19:51 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 19:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:48 SuperArc wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Worst games possible for Violet. Goes into a super Z favored map and proxies because of it, messes up, loses. Cuts one too many a corner on HBR and gets killed via runby. Nowadays he's second only to Bisu when he gets going in the midgame, but neither game came close to getting that far.

I think he's got it in him to take down top level zergs, but these games were just not beneficial to how he plays.


If his midgame is so good, it makes us wonder why he doesn't decide to get to midgame?


It's like you completely ignored my first three sentences.

I know you're a CJ fan and you're happy that Effort won, but condescension is a pretty mean path to take in the face of a Violet fan. =(


No, not at all. All I am asking is why should a midgame level player decide to cheese? Or play greedy and risky?


First of all, he cheesed on game 1 for change of pace, as he plays straight up most of the games he plays + Gods Garden is REALLY bad for P, if you take out Much's inflated wins vs shit tier Zergs the map ends up to be 23-7 which is not good. And game 2 is not THAT greedy, lots of protoss build 1 canon at nat, including Bisu himself,stork, and jangbi, and Violet made no mistakes with that as his probe saw a lair and only saw 6 lings< Effort started pumping lings after he killed the probe, so it was a sneaky all in. Violet was simply reacting to what he saw and what he saw was just standard play by effort untill that point.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
June 28 2009 10:56 GMT
#407
It's more like a Golden Age of Jaedong. :p
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 11:03:49
June 28 2009 10:58 GMT
#408
On June 28 2009 19:51 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 19:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:48 SuperArc wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Worst games possible for Violet. Goes into a super Z favored map and proxies because of it, messes up, loses. Cuts one too many a corner on HBR and gets killed via runby. Nowadays he's second only to Bisu when he gets going in the midgame, but neither game came close to getting that far.

I think he's got it in him to take down top level zergs, but these games were just not beneficial to how he plays.


If his midgame is so good, it makes us wonder why he doesn't decide to get to midgame?


It's like you completely ignored my first three sentences.

I know you're a CJ fan and you're happy that Effort won, but condescension is a pretty mean path to take in the face of a Violet fan. =(


No, not at all. All I am asking is why should a midgame level player decide to cheese? Or play greedy and risky?


I just said he proxied because it Garden of God -- the map is a deathtrap for P considering how dominant Zerg mid/mid-late game is.

HBR is supposed to be kind of hard to runby given the choke and decent sim city, and honestly he probably would've been fine losing his gas with that build. He wasn't even that greedy -- he just didn't know how many lings Effort had and got trounced by moving out of place.


Oh well, it's kind of bittersweet anyhow. I'm also a Jaedong fan and it's vindicating that he's got a Bo3 against Jaedong next time.

Flash is still gonna win the whole thing though. :3 Calling it now, GOM's gonna have a cycle. Flash wins invitational, Jaedong wins season 1, Bisu wins season 2, Flash wins season 3.

Guess who's gonna win season four, Jaedong fans? 8)
Remember Violet.
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 11:04:06
June 28 2009 11:03 GMT
#409
I like how you are saying he isn't that greedy, skipping a 2nd scout and refusing to make more than one cannon isn't greedy? What is it then. A bit greedy? :p
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 11:04:51
June 28 2009 11:04 GMT
#410
On June 28 2009 19:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 19:51 SuperArc wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:48 SuperArc wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Worst games possible for Violet. Goes into a super Z favored map and proxies because of it, messes up, loses. Cuts one too many a corner on HBR and gets killed via runby. Nowadays he's second only to Bisu when he gets going in the midgame, but neither game came close to getting that far.

I think he's got it in him to take down top level zergs, but these games were just not beneficial to how he plays.


If his midgame is so good, it makes us wonder why he doesn't decide to get to midgame?


It's like you completely ignored my first three sentences.

I know you're a CJ fan and you're happy that Effort won, but condescension is a pretty mean path to take in the face of a Violet fan. =(


No, not at all. All I am asking is why should a midgame level player decide to cheese? Or play greedy and risky?


Flash is still gonna win the whole thing though. :3 Calling it now, GOM's gonna have a cycle. Flash wins invitational, Jaedong wins season 1, Bisu wins season 2, Flash wins season 3.

Guess who's gonna win season four, Jaedong fans? 8)

Idra?
+ Show Spoiler +
Sea.Really?
ModeratorGood content always wins.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 11:06:50
June 28 2009 11:04 GMT
#411
On June 28 2009 20:03 SuperArc wrote:
I like how you are saying he isn't that greedy, skipping a 2nd scout and refusing to make more than one cannon isn't greedy? What is it then. A bit greedy? :p


Skipping a 2nd scout? He wasn't at the time to get a second scout. You scout again when you can push your lots out past the initial zergling contain so your probe doesn't die like a bitch -- or you scout with a sair.

Who scouts at that point with 8 speed lings light containing?

The extra cannon wasn't necessary with the info he had. Telling him to make another cannon when all he's seen are initial lings is telling him to make cost efficiency mistakes. That's the same sim city you've seen everytime a protoss wins standard on HBR. Saying Violet was bad for that is saying Bisu was bad when he beat Jaedong on the map -- he isn't.

Ling rushes happen sometime.
Remember Violet.
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
June 28 2009 11:06 GMT
#412
On June 28 2009 20:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Skipping a 2nd scout? He wasn't at the time to get a second scout. You scout again when you can push your lots out past the initial zergling contain so your probe doesn't die like a bitch -- or you scout with a sair.

Who scouts at that point with 8 speed lings light containing?


Bisu :p The 2nd best protoss should be able to hide a probe.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
June 28 2009 11:06 GMT
#413
On June 28 2009 20:03 SuperArc wrote:
I like how you are saying he isn't that greedy, skipping a 2nd scout and refusing to make more than one cannon isn't greedy? What is it then. A bit greedy? :p


You know his sair was almost done when the push came out yeah? Noone sends out a 2nd scout when your stargate is done -__-.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
Husky
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3362 Posts
June 28 2009 11:06 GMT
#414

Guess who's gonna win season four, Jaedong fans? 8)



David Kim
Commentaries: youtube.com/HuskyStarcraft
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
June 28 2009 11:07 GMT
#415
On June 28 2009 20:06 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 20:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Skipping a 2nd scout? He wasn't at the time to get a second scout. You scout again when you can push your lots out past the initial zergling contain so your probe doesn't die like a bitch -- or you scout with a sair.

Who scouts at that point with 8 speed lings light containing?


Bisu :p The 2nd best protoss should be able to hide a probe.


Second best zerg should be able to find one? That's a dumb argument.
Remember Violet.
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
June 28 2009 11:10 GMT
#416
On June 28 2009 20:07 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 20:06 SuperArc wrote:
On June 28 2009 20:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Skipping a 2nd scout? He wasn't at the time to get a second scout. You scout again when you can push your lots out past the initial zergling contain so your probe doesn't die like a bitch -- or you scout with a sair.

Who scouts at that point with 8 speed lings light containing?


Bisu :p The 2nd best protoss should be able to hide a probe.


Second best zerg should be able to find one? That's a dumb argument.


True, lol. Next time, just make more cannons
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 11:24:38
June 28 2009 11:22 GMT
#417
On June 28 2009 20:06 samachking wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 20:03 SuperArc wrote:
I like how you are saying he isn't that greedy, skipping a 2nd scout and refusing to make more than one cannon isn't greedy? What is it then. A bit greedy? :p


You know his sair was almost done when the push came out yeah? Noone sends out a 2nd scout when your stargate is done -__-.

Samachking...you're clueless ok?

It's completely standard to send out a second probe after your first one dies. It's even better to have a second one hidden after your first one dies so you can see even more(read: Sent out BEFORE the first one dies in anticipation of the first one dying). Violet played greedy and had placement mistakes that effort perfectly exploited. The exploitation of mistakes is out playing someone pure and simple.

Violet thought he was safe because he had his zealots in position and he WAS. Until effort saw the cannon placement and FORCED him to move his zealots out of position with a small number of lings. When the zealots were out of position effort showed the rest of lings and won...

Effort completely outplayed him in both games. There's no denying this. Violet should've been good enough to reason that there was a huge window that could've been used to make speedlings(and there was). He should've been good enough to realize his cannon placement wouldn't cover his gas...he wasn't, so effort made him pay like a really good zerg should.

Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 11:26:32
June 28 2009 11:25 GMT
#418
On June 28 2009 19:40 iLoveKT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:
On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs


No it didn't.


Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him .

No it didnt. did you watch the games? Jaedong and Effort didnt beat him because they outplayed him. They beat him because of violets mistake.

Watch jaedong vs much. That is an example of beating the crap out of him. violet vs effort/jd wasnt.

Define the word "outplayed"?
Go ahead...
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
Remure
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6 Posts
June 28 2009 11:51 GMT
#419
I'm looking forward to Jaedong v Effort.
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
June 28 2009 11:55 GMT
#420
On June 28 2009 20:51 Remure wrote:
I'm looking forward to Jaedong v Effort.


Yeah, me too. Especially the "How will Jaedong rape this time" will be a fun part of the series.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
18:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #18
SteadfastSC67
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 274
SpeCial 133
UpATreeSC 92
SteadfastSC 67
JuggernautJason46
trigger 33
MindelVK 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14703
Calm 2880
EffOrt 630
Horang2 499
Shuttle 343
Dewaltoss 168
Soulkey 70
ggaemo 62
Backho 50
HiyA 39
[ Show more ]
soO 20
Free 17
Bale 17
Hm[arnc] 9
ivOry 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7564
Counter-Strike
fl0m1672
Other Games
summit1g3700
Grubby2139
B2W.Neo923
Beastyqt577
RotterdaM158
ArmadaUGS126
C9.Mang0102
Hui .96
mouzStarbuck62
Trikslyr60
Mew2King59
QueenE53
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1407
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 68
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• intothetv
StarCraft: Brood War
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1804
• WagamamaTV554
League of Legends
• Nemesis4724
• Jankos1577
• TFBlade928
Other Games
• Scarra1211
• imaqtpie883
• Shiphtur166
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 57m
WardiTV Team League
16h 57m
Big Brain Bouts
21h 57m
Fjant vs SortOf
YoungYakov vs Krystianer
Reynor vs HeRoMaRinE
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
1d 16h
Platinum Heroes Events
1d 19h
BSL
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
2 days
BSL
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-25
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.