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On June 28 2009 19:36 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:34 Malinor wrote:On June 28 2009 19:32 samachking wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs Wtf are you saying? 2 cheese games means Violet sucks PvZ? Let the games last over 10 min then talk. Well, if Violet did not play horrible, then the game could have lasted longer than 10 minutes. Honestly Violet made only 2 mistakes those 2 series, not attacking with the zeals from the start, and in game 2 not building that 2nd canon and sending out a 2nd probe scout. Effort did a good job abusing it, but it doesnt say anything about the merit of violet's pvz.
Well you deserve to lose if you don't play safer against a top level zerg seriously i went to the bathroom and when i came back the game was over .
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On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him .
No it didnt. did you watch the games? Jaedong and Effort didnt beat him because they outplayed him. They beat him because of violets mistake.
Watch jaedong vs much. That is an example of beating the crap out of him. violet vs effort/jd wasnt.
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On June 28 2009 19:40 iLoveKT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . No it didnt. did you watch the games? Jaedong and Effort didnt beat him because they outplayed him. They beat him because of violets mistake. Watch jaedong vs much. That is an example of beating the crap out of him. violet vs effort/jd wasnt.
They did outplay him, lol.
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On June 28 2009 19:38 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:35 iLoveKT wrote:On June 28 2009 19:34 Malinor wrote:On June 28 2009 19:32 samachking wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs Wtf are you saying? 2 cheese games means Violet sucks PvZ? Let the games last over 10 min then talk. Well, if Violet did not play horrible, then the game could have lasted longer than 10 minutes. what makes you say violet played horrible in the 2nd game? I dislike greedy play. 1 cannon without scouting information is just bad in my opinion. I really got confused over the Violet hype the last weeks on these forums, people comparing him to Bisu and stuff. Way to go.
Should I start linking games where Bisu gets owned by early speedlings?
Mistakes happen, acting like those games suddenly prove all of Violet's other wins mean nothing is ridiculous.
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On June 28 2009 19:39 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . Really? Getting cheesed once and failing a cheese means you can't beat that opponent ever? I guess Jaedong has no chance against Skyhigh then.
I would not commend your arguement but I would love to point out that JD is 3-0 skyhigh in every game that lasted over 8 minutes, all the games are rapes btw.
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On June 28 2009 19:39 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . Really? Getting cheesed once and failing a cheese means you can't beat that opponent ever? I guess Jaedong has no chance against Skyhigh then.
But Effort didn't cheese, the ling run-by isn't supposed to be an all-in, it won the game by itself because of poor foresight of an opponent  I'm pretty sure effort would still be fine even if his lings were stopped by cannons and he loses most of them, and of course he would have easily retreated them.
Terrans forces zergs to make sunkens, zerg force protoss to make cannons, same logic
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United States11393 Posts
On June 28 2009 19:40 iLoveKT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . No it didnt. did you watch the games? Jaedong and Effort didnt beat him because they outplayed him. They beat him because of violets mistake. Watch jaedong vs much. That is an example of beating the crap out of him. violet vs effort/jd wasnt.
Every single mistake that Violet makes is going to be picked up on and amplified against zergs like JD and Effort. It will be same story if he fought other good zvp'ers like July.
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On June 28 2009 19:40 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:40 iLoveKT wrote:On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . No it didnt. did you watch the games? Jaedong and Effort didnt beat him because they outplayed him. They beat him because of violets mistake. Watch jaedong vs much. That is an example of beating the crap out of him. violet vs effort/jd wasnt. They did outplay him, lol.
You call a "ling bust because of failure to scout well and making a mistake with the zealots for the simcity" being outplayed?
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On June 28 2009 19:42 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:39 Rostam wrote:On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . Really? Getting cheesed once and failing a cheese means you can't beat that opponent ever? I guess Jaedong has no chance against Skyhigh then. But Effort didn't cheese, the ling run-by isn't supposed to be an all-in, it won the game by itself because of poor foresight of an opponent I'm pretty sure effort would still be fine even if his lings were stopped by cannons and he loses most of them, and of course he would have easily retreated them. Terrans forces zergs to make sunkens, zerg force protoss to make cannons, same logic
Yeah, Effort was on three hatches pumping drones and zerglings, I dont see the cheese.
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On June 28 2009 19:42 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:40 iLoveKT wrote:On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . No it didnt. did you watch the games? Jaedong and Effort didnt beat him because they outplayed him. They beat him because of violets mistake. Watch jaedong vs much. That is an example of beating the crap out of him. violet vs effort/jd wasnt. Every single mistake that Violet makes is going to be picked up on and amplified against zergs like JD and Effort. It will be same story if he fought other good zvp'ers like July.
yeah that is my point. he made mistakes thats why he lost. he didnt get outplayed.
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On June 28 2009 19:42 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:39 Rostam wrote:On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . Really? Getting cheesed once and failing a cheese means you can't beat that opponent ever? I guess Jaedong has no chance against Skyhigh then. But Effort didn't cheese, the ling run-by isn't supposed to be an all-in, it won the game by itself because of poor foresight of an opponent I'm pretty sure effort would still be fine even if his lings were stopped by cannons and he loses most of them, and of course he would have easily retreated them. Terrans forces zergs to make sunkens, zerg force protoss to make cannons, same logic
Not the same at all. A zerg has to skip a ton of drone production early on to get that many speedlings, his economy would've been set back massively if it had failed. If the point was only to force him to build more cannons he wouldn't try to hide his ling count.
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On June 28 2009 19:42 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:39 Rostam wrote:On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . Really? Getting cheesed once and failing a cheese means you can't beat that opponent ever? I guess Jaedong has no chance against Skyhigh then. But Effort didn't cheese, the ling run-by isn't supposed to be an all-in, it won the game by itself because of poor foresight of an opponent I'm pretty sure effort would still be fine even if his lings were stopped by cannons and he loses most of them, and of course he would have easily retreated them. Terrans forces zergs to make sunkens, zerg force protoss to make cannons, same logic
this
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I don't know what you guys are trying to argue here. Violet lost 3 vZ games in arow. Against JD because of bad play, against EffOrt because of a bad executed cheese and the second game because of really greedy play.
Of course the conclusion is not, that he sucks like Rock and does not have stand a chance against the best. But it shows that he is just by far not as good as you make him out to be. Losing 3 games like this is just bad and he stil has along way to go.
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On June 28 2009 19:44 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:42 5unrise wrote:On June 28 2009 19:39 Rostam wrote:On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . Really? Getting cheesed once and failing a cheese means you can't beat that opponent ever? I guess Jaedong has no chance against Skyhigh then. But Effort didn't cheese, the ling run-by isn't supposed to be an all-in, it won the game by itself because of poor foresight of an opponent I'm pretty sure effort would still be fine even if his lings were stopped by cannons and he loses most of them, and of course he would have easily retreated them. Terrans forces zergs to make sunkens, zerg force protoss to make cannons, same logic this
not this. read post above you.
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On June 28 2009 19:42 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:39 Rostam wrote:On June 28 2009 19:36 raga4ka wrote:On June 28 2009 19:31 Orbifold wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs No it didn't. Well it did . Both Jaedong and Effort bit the crap out of him . Really? Getting cheesed once and failing a cheese means you can't beat that opponent ever? I guess Jaedong has no chance against Skyhigh then. But Effort didn't cheese, the ling run-by isn't supposed to be an all-in, it won the game by itself because of poor foresight of an opponent I'm pretty sure effort would still be fine even if his lings were stopped by cannons and he loses most of them, and of course he would have easily retreated them. Terrans forces zergs to make sunkens, zerg force protoss to make cannons, same logic
Orly? This is what happens when you opt for this build and fail:
http://www.gomtv.net/videos/574
The build is 3hat lair into 3hatling while adding 4th hatch and spire and I think it was first used by Savior vs Bisu on Neo Harmony, Lux used it on Neo Harmony in MSL finals too, but it pretty much has to do damage otherwise you are way behind.
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Worst games possible for Violet. Goes into a super Z favored map and proxies because of it, messes up, loses. Cuts one too many a corner on HBR and gets killed via runby. Nowadays he's second only to Bisu when he gets going in the midgame, but neither game came close to getting that far.
I think he's got it in him to take down top level zergs, but these games were just not beneficial to how he plays.
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On June 28 2009 19:41 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:38 Malinor wrote:On June 28 2009 19:35 iLoveKT wrote:On June 28 2009 19:34 Malinor wrote:On June 28 2009 19:32 samachking wrote:On June 28 2009 19:30 SuperArc wrote:
This series showed that Violet has no chance against good zergs Wtf are you saying? 2 cheese games means Violet sucks PvZ? Let the games last over 10 min then talk. Well, if Violet did not play horrible, then the game could have lasted longer than 10 minutes. what makes you say violet played horrible in the 2nd game? I dislike greedy play. 1 cannon without scouting information is just bad in my opinion. I really got confused over the Violet hype the last weeks on these forums, people comparing him to Bisu and stuff. Way to go. Should I start linking games where Bisu gets owned by early speedlings? Mistakes happen, acting like those games suddenly prove all of Violet's other wins mean nothing is ridiculous.
I also facepalm when Bisu does it. I also facepalm when JD thinks it is a good idea to put his 5th hatchery at a fourth base (like on Medusa against Tempest last season).
You really have no point here. Violet lost 3 really bad PvZs in a row and there is noone to blame. He is good, who doubts that, but he is not nearly on the same level as the top players just yet.
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On June 28 2009 19:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Worst games possible for Violet. Goes into a super Z favored map and proxies because of it, messes up, loses. Cuts one too many a corner on HBR and gets killed via runby. Nowadays he's second only to Bisu when he gets going in the midgame, but neither game came close to getting that far.
I think he's got it in him to take down top level zergs, but these games were just not beneficial to how he plays.
If his midgame is so good, it makes us wonder why he doesn't decide to get to midgame?
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
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On June 28 2009 19:48 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2009 19:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Worst games possible for Violet. Goes into a super Z favored map and proxies because of it, messes up, loses. Cuts one too many a corner on HBR and gets killed via runby. Nowadays he's second only to Bisu when he gets going in the midgame, but neither game came close to getting that far.
I think he's got it in him to take down top level zergs, but these games were just not beneficial to how he plays. If his midgame is so good, it makes us wonder why he doesn't decide to get to midgame?
It's like you completely ignored my first three sentences.
I know you're a CJ fan and you're happy that Effort won, but condescension is a pretty mean path to take in the face of a Violet fan. =(
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EPT
