On February 17 2009 18:24 MacWorld wrote: Gogo should be careful not to overextend himself.
Actually in TvT its usually a good idea to overextend yourself a bit in late game when you have an advantage. This way, even though you will most likely lose a base, your counter drop will be all that much more effective.
On February 17 2009 18:24 MacWorld wrote: Gogo should be careful not to overextend himself.
Actually in TvT its usually a good idea to overextend yourself a bit in late game when you have an advantage. This way, even though you will most likely lose a base, your counter drop will be all that much more effective.
Ah, I see. It just seems to like gogo is having a hard time transfering enough units whenever Dongrae decides to push. Now he´s got some dropships of his own which will definietly help him.
On February 17 2009 18:33 o[twist] wrote: Destructive drop. Game's been over for awhile, not understanding the Dongrae trolling in this thread. A billion starports going up for go.go as well
I don't quite remember. I know he was BM against FBH and sometimes does stuff like what he did there, but frankly Dongrae deserved that - game had been decisively over for like ten minutes.
On February 17 2009 18:39 Exteray wrote: Can anyone explain to me why go.go. is regarded as the most bm player? I need a history lesson
He had a series of games (mostly against poor protoss players) in Proleague where he would build CCs all over his opponents natural expansion after gaining a huge advantage.
On February 17 2009 19:37 Vivi57 wrote: since when has go.go been good
Well, he did all kill Wemade the other day. And like 9 months ago when OGN played MBC in that big production show match in allkill format, he nearly AK'd them very easily until a close game against bisu.
He's capable of making silly mistakes, but when he's on fire, he can rape left and right as well as Bisu or any S-class.
Jaedong holds again with muta ling, but go.go isn't giving this up..... he moves in again! But Jaedong destroys it with muta-ling again GG! JAEDONG WINS!
On February 17 2009 20:05 FearDarkness wrote: Yarnc, hmm I smell snipe with cheese bullets
hard to cheese as a zerg imo but the next 2 after yarnc may be like gogo and try a cheese as he's been cheesed sooooo much lately (as well as cheesing himself)
Yarnc can beat jaedong. Not likely though People act like yarnc is some random iccup zerg.
It's irritating when people act like the "superstar" players are like Gods. They are very VERY good. But all the starting lineup players are very good.
Set 1: Dongrae < go.go Set 2: Young < go.go Set 3: HiyA < go.go Set 4: Jaedong > go.go Set 5: Jaedong < Colosseum II > YellOw[ArnC] Set 6: < Andromeda > Set 7: < Sin Chupung-Ryeong >
On February 17 2009 20:13 erin[go]bragh wrote: I definitely just heard a music clip from NOFX in that opening. Interesting!
Really? Awesome, I love NOFX.
Seriously, it was like a 3 second clip from the intro of separation of church and skate. I haven't even listened to NOFX in years but that clip awoke dormant subliminal messages of anti-establishment.
Jaedong spawns royal purple bottom right while the infernal Yarnc doesn't even get yellow, instead taking orange at top left. He must think camouflage will save him from Jaedong's wrath. It won't.
I'm willing to bet every cent I have to say that Jaedong is really a demon possessing a korean boy. You heard it here first, one day he's just gonna rip open a goat on stage and drink its blood.
On February 17 2009 20:25 Last Romantic wrote: Jaedong will win because his muta control is... much better.
Yarnc's lost like 3, 4 mutas to scourge. I think Jaedong's yet to lose one.
maybe but yarnc is also known for his muta control more than anything. i mean hes the one who did the all muta swapping against frozean first on and the crazy comeback by pure muta micro against flash so you never know ;o
That offensive sunken was genius. JD just knows how to counter everything so well. Sacrificing his main was pretty ballsy but his larger muta numbers told out in the end. Yarnc almost got him though.
Why didn't JD just retreat and kill off the few remaining Yarnc mutas and THEN wipe out the rest of him? JD had more mutas I bet and better micro. That way he could've saved his spire and if he kept at least 50 min rebuild his entire eco with a single drone.
Anyway JD figured it all out ofc and won yet another ZvZ
On February 17 2009 20:16 Last Romantic wrote: Jaedong is the best zerg-killer in the modern proscene, and the second best all-time (second only to iloveoov).
People say ZvZ is luckbased, but I find it to be execution based at the highest levels - the opposite of PvP.
Either that, or Jaedong needs to go buy some lotto tickets.
To put it in perspective: Jaedong's current ZvZ ELO is nearly 100 more than his closest competitor, the dominating ShinMugi.
On February 17 2009 20:31 3nickma wrote: Why didn't JD just retreat and kill off the few remaining Yarnc mutas and THEN wipe out the rest of him? JD had more mutas I bet and better micro. That way he could've saved his spire and if he kept at least 50 min rebuild his entire eco with a single drone.
Anyway JD figured it all out ofc and won yet another ZvZ
Jaedong canceled two eggs late in the game. I'm assuming they were scourge, but even if they weren't, he definitely had 50 minerals in the bank.
On February 17 2009 20:31 3nickma wrote: Why didn't JD just retreat and kill off the few remaining Yarnc mutas and THEN wipe out the rest of him? JD had more mutas I bet and better micro. That way he could've saved his spire and if he kept at least 50 min rebuild his entire eco with a single drone.
Anyway JD figured it all out ofc and won yet another ZvZ
Jaedong canceled two eggs late in the game. I'm assuming they were scourge, but even if they weren't, he definitely had 50 minerals in the bank.
Yes my bet too but still think he should've retreated to save his spire and take the few mutas out and then kill him. But doesn't really matter when he wins anyways I guess
Here we go, mech build of course. Jaedong scouts last and can't get in because of the marine. Now he's playing blind. :s Oh crap here comes a vulture, and it's going to do lots of dmg.
wow and things swing so fast, Jaedong is now camping the Terran main. with scourge blocking the starport spawn... !!! they get the 2nd Vessel and it's GG!!!!
the problem here is that leta has known ahead of time in practice that if it goes to games 7 its 100% jaedong ..... and leta is really really good when he prepares for just 1 game ... he plays perfect.
On February 17 2009 20:48 AttackZerg wrote: the problem here is that leta has known ahead of time in practice that if it goes to games 7 its 100% jaedong ..... and leta is really really good when he prepares for just 1 game ... he plays perfect.
... by that same logic Jaedong would know if it get's to game 7 he's playing Leta.
That's an interesting build though. Oov won with something close to it, and Justin lost horribly with it.
Interestingly, in the Oov game, he expected Zero to go mutas, building two valkyries and a bunch of turrets, when Zero stayed with hydras. Justin hardly had anything in defense.
On February 17 2009 20:48 AttackZerg wrote: the problem here is that leta has known ahead of time in practice that if it goes to games 7 its 100% jaedong ..... and leta is really really good when he prepares for just 1 game ... he plays perfect.
... by that same logic Jaedong would know if it get's to game 7 he's playing Leta.
He could.
The problem is that they have more then one vs zerg player.
On February 17 2009 20:50 SimonB wrote: That's an interesting build though. Oov won with something close to it, and Justin lost horribly with it.
Interestingly, in the Oov game, he expected Zero to go mutas, building two valkyries and a bunch of turrets, when Zero stayed with hydras. Justin hardly had anything in defense.
even a sort of retired oov is still better than justin.. --___-
Lol @ Mr. "I have no skills so I'll just prepare this sniper build for an entire week and still loose even if my opponent was completely in the dark about it"
Edit: lol sorry there was so layout breaking with me? But should've fixed that now..
On February 17 2009 20:48 AttackZerg wrote: the problem here is that leta has known ahead of time in practice that if it goes to games 7 its 100% jaedong ..... and leta is really really good when he prepares for just 1 game ... he plays perfect.
... by that same logic Jaedong would know if it get's to game 7 he's playing Leta.
...No, because JD hasn't been able to prepare just for one game... Actually that statement makes no sense at all.
On February 17 2009 20:50 SimonB wrote: That's an interesting build though. Oov won with something close to it, and Justin lost horribly with it.
Interestingly, in the Oov game, he expected Zero to go mutas, building two valkyries and a bunch of turrets, when Zero stayed with hydras. Justin hardly had anything in defense.
I think it's clear that Justin had a large lead in that game, all he has to do is survive until irradiate. What makes it even worse is he had a wraith in Jaedongs base the whole time so he knew exactly what was coming.
Lol @ Mr. "I-have-no-skills-so-I'll-just-prepare-this-sniper-build-for-an-entire-week-and-still-loose-even-if-my-opponent-was-completely-in-the-dark-about-it"
Interestingly, Jaedong didn't even have to abuse his mutalisk control beyond most progamers' capabilities that game. Did Justin honestly not face 3-hatch mutalisk timing in practice?
On February 17 2009 20:48 AttackZerg wrote: the problem here is that leta has known ahead of time in practice that if it goes to games 7 its 100% jaedong ..... and leta is really really good when he prepares for just 1 game ... he plays perfect.
... by that same logic Jaedong would know if it get's to game 7 he's playing Leta.
...No, because JD hasn't been able to prepare just for one game... Actually that statement makes no sense at all.
? Leta has OSL tomorrow and MSL on thursday! Jaedong has more practice time, not less.
On February 17 2009 20:50 SimonB wrote: That's an interesting build though. Oov won with something close to it, and Justin lost horribly with it.
Interestingly, in the Oov game, he expected Zero to go mutas, building two valkyries and a bunch of turrets, when Zero stayed with hydras. Justin hardly had anything in defense.
I think it's clear that Justin had a large lead in that game, all he has to do is survive until irradiate. What makes it even worse is he had a wraith in Jaedongs base the whole time so he knew exactly what was coming.
There was no "large lead" The mistake justin made was having only one turret guarding the whole front of his base. He didnt even have 4 marines in the front bunk. This cost justin the game. However had he defended the muta harass the game wouldve played out fairly standard.
On February 17 2009 20:50 SimonB wrote: That's an interesting build though. Oov won with something close to it, and Justin lost horribly with it.
Interestingly, in the Oov game, he expected Zero to go mutas, building two valkyries and a bunch of turrets, when Zero stayed with hydras. Justin hardly had anything in defense.
I think it's clear that Justin had a large lead in that game, all he has to do is survive until irradiate. What makes it even worse is he had a wraith in Jaedongs base the whole time so he knew exactly what was coming.
There was no "large lead" The mistake justin made was having only one turret guarding the whole front of his base. He didnt even have 4 marines in the front bunk. This cost justin the game. However had he defended the muta harass the game wouldve played out fairly standard.
Well Idra can clear this up but I'm pretty sure when you kill 7 drones, 3 overlords and disrupt a lot of mining time you are in a large lead.
Imagine what happens when Irradiate finishes researching... the Mutas get raped and JD is in massive trouble. I don't think it's "fairly standard" from there.
2 hatch muta IS bad vs one base terran right? lol. I think it is right? If so good for Leta for correctly guessing JD's strat. Maybe it'll become like Flash's 14ccs
On February 17 2009 20:59 alffla wrote: justin should probably have gotten valkyries
or maybe not gotten so greedy ad tech to vessels so fast
yeah and went for +1atk so early for some reason, he invested too much in tech and upgrades, but the build was interesting imo
Totally incorrect. Justin's build was absolutely fine. His mistake, once again, was late/poor turret placement leaving his nat and front exposed. With such a low mnm count you need a rock solid turret grid to hide behind. You need the really fast attack upgrade because your second push is timed for 2-1 and it needs to come as quickly as possible. You need the vessels fast to force the mutas out and allow your first group of mnm to hunt the zergs 3rd gas.
justins build was very good, but if they go 3 hatch muta you have to cut scvs and stuff to get turrets up in time to stall for irad, you cannot have enough mm to defend it. alot of zergs wont open with 9 mutas asap though, especially if they buy the mech fake. he was either counting on that or he just messed up his timing.
On February 17 2009 21:09 Last Romantic wrote: Dropship crashes in flames! Leta retreats across the valley as lurkerling push him back into his natural!
This is madness! This is Jaedong!
Haha so true... where all these units coming from?!
I'm happy JD got to be the first to reverse all-kill. He seemed very eager last time when he got stopped by skyhigh, and now he's the first to reverse! Wow.
GG Jaedong the first person to do a reverse all - kill and the first person with 2 All - kills in WL . Damn him and Flash are monsters in this format ... I think Manifesto's thread needs a bump !!!
Ugh, I will never understand how Leta got #1 on PR. I mean, sure he looked great when he was only playing proleague, no one was really preparing for him, and wasn't playing against ANY top 10 players (except maybe two games against Luxury, who probably wasn't even top 10 at the time or even right now ... he also went 1-1 against Free).
Check his games list - at the end of January, he had no games against Bisu, Stork, Kal, Flash, or JD, had losses against Best and Jangbi, and was 1-1 against Free. All he really had was 2-0 Luxury (impressive, but just one player), 1-0 Mind (as much as it pains me to say it, Mind is not top tier right now), and 3-0 Sea (another player who is no longer top tier).
I mean, seriously? This guy was #1 over a bunch of players who actually played each other all the time? Yeah, I know Leta looked GREAT in his games. And, everybody else in the PR had some ups and downs (but this was in large part because they actually played good players, also known as each other). I guess it's easy for a good player to look great when he plays mediocre opponents. Hope we've all learned a lesson here.
I have go.go (yes, not even ashamed to admit it), JD as captain and Hwaseung as team. How many points is that for today JD? Line-up appearance, team win, 3-win-streak stop and all-kill. This is as many points as a player can get.
1st person to do 2 all kills. 1st person to do a reverse-all kill.
Props to Jaedong.
I think OGN kind of threw this game away. JD vs go.go was RH3, and go.go decided to do an all in build if I'm not wrong. No comment on JD vs yarnc. Justin was just horrible. Maybe horang2 would be a better choice instead of Justin.
Wow, love Jaedong, but that game made no sense. I was like omg he must be down after sacrificing like 4 mutus and 2 scourges for nothing, and loosing 3 drones, but then he just goes and rolls Leta like a burrito. Guess Leta's early build was just that bad against 2 hatch mutus, 3 hatch lurks, siege seemed way late also.
On February 17 2009 21:26 I_L_Jl wrote: Wow, love Jaedong, but that game made no sense. I was like omg he must be down after sacrificing like 4 mutus and 2 scourges for nothing, and loosing 3 drones, but then he just goes and rolls Leta like a burrito. Guess Leta's early build was just that bad against 2 hatch mutus, 3 hatch lurks, siege seemed way late also.
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On February 17 2009 21:26 I_L_Jl wrote: Wow, love Jaedong, but that game made no sense. I was like omg he must be down after sacrificing like 4 mutus and 2 scourges for nothing, and loosing 3 drones, but then he just goes and rolls Leta like a burrito. Guess Leta's early build was just that bad against 2 hatch mutus, 3 hatch lurks, siege seemed way late also.
yes the commentators were stating how leta was timing things in too much of a gamble. While doing a 2 rax there should be some pressure, instead leta was opting to get both vessel and tank upgrade at the SAME time. This threw the timing off for a push and because he had no expansion leta had to do something but wasn't doing anything. The dropship was basically his card to even/turn the favor into his.
JD is the 2nd person ever in the world to perform a reverse all kill in a BO7. However, if you exclude offline games, JD is the absolute first person to perform a reverse all kill in a BO7.
On February 17 2009 21:40 MrHoon wrote: JD is the 2nd person ever in the world to perform a reverse all kill in a BO7. However, if you exclude offline games, JD is the absolute first person to perform a reverse all kill in a BO7.
On February 17 2009 21:40 MrHoon wrote: JD is the 2nd person ever in the world to perform a reverse all kill in a BO7. However, if you exclude offline games, JD is the absolute first person to perform a reverse all kill in a BO7.
On February 18 2009 03:19 nK)Duke wrote: Just came home. Seeing results of STX vs CJ, seeing Effort and Savior losing. Feeling sad. Seeing Lecaf results. Felt happy again. JAEEEEEEEDOOOOONG
Looks like Jaedong monopolized the power of Zerg last night ^^
On February 18 2009 03:10 Shikyo wrote: Jaedong vs go.go was just gogo getting owned. Jaedong vs Yarnc was just Yarnc getting owned. Jaedong vs Justin was just Justing sucking ass.
Jaedong vs Leta would probably be the recommended game.
On February 18 2009 03:10 Shikyo wrote: Jaedong vs go.go was just gogo getting owned. Jaedong vs Yarnc was just Yarnc getting owned. Jaedong vs Justin was just Justing sucking ass.
Jaedong vs Leta would probably be the recommended game.
Don't bother watching this game...it's pretty one-sided despite quite sloppy play from both sides. Leta decides to try a 1base opening but JD goes 2hatch muta...Leta literally never leaves his nat for the entire game.
The only part worth watching was that last 10 seconds, for + Show Spoiler +
On February 18 2009 03:10 Shikyo wrote: Jaedong vs go.go was just gogo getting owned. Jaedong vs Yarnc was just Yarnc getting owned. Jaedong vs Justin was just Justing sucking ass.
Jaedong vs Leta would probably be the recommended game.
Don't bother watching this game...it's pretty one-sided despite quite sloppy play from both sides. Leta decides to try a 1base opening but JD goes 2hatch muta...Leta literally never leaves his nat for the entire game.
The only part worth watching was that last 10 seconds, for + Show Spoiler +
JD infesting Leta's nat CC!
You must be bitter because Best is slumping? That's like saying don't watch JD vs Fantasy. Which I'm sure you'd say.
IMO the coach must be letting ForGG practice for his MSL games.. It's the only reasoning that I can think of as to why he hasn't been used lately.. Surely he'd be better than Young and Dongrae. Never thought I'd say it, but Hwaseung really needs Backho back.. Right now they don't have enough depth to sustain his injury. Although TBH I like it better this way anyway, Jaedong all kills are very fun to watch as a zerg user +_+
On February 18 2009 05:32 cujo2k wrote: IMO the coach must be letting ForGG practice for his MSL games.. It's the only reasoning that I can think of as to why he hasn't been used lately.. Surely he'd be better than Young and Dongrae. Never thought I'd say it, but Hwaseung really needs Backho back.. Right now they don't have enough depth to sustain his injury. Although TBH I like it better this way anyway, Jaedong all kills are very fun to watch as a zerg user +_+
That's probably true. Mr. Hwaseung coach, you're screwing over my Fantasy team.
(I bet go.go would have allkilled if I kept watching through the entire morning)
On February 18 2009 03:10 Shikyo wrote: Jaedong vs go.go was just gogo getting owned. Jaedong vs Yarnc was just Yarnc getting owned. Jaedong vs Justin was just Justing sucking ass.
Jaedong vs Leta would probably be the recommended game.
Don't bother watching this game...it's pretty one-sided despite quite sloppy play from both sides. Leta decides to try a 1base opening but JD goes 2hatch muta...Leta literally never leaves his nat for the entire game.
The only part worth watching was that last 10 seconds, for + Show Spoiler +
JD infesting Leta's nat CC!
You must be bitter because Best is slumping? That's like saying don't watch JD vs Fantasy. Which I'm sure you'd say.
No actually, JD vs. Fantasy was a great game for the queen usage. Comparing that game and JD vs. Leta is pretty ridiculous...obviously an innovative strategy can make any one-sided game entertaining. JD vs. Leta contained no such strategies, it was a pretty standard game that featured a lot of suiciding muta and scourge, failed drops, and containment. There was nothing impressive about it.
On February 18 2009 03:10 Shikyo wrote: Jaedong vs go.go was just gogo getting owned. Jaedong vs Yarnc was just Yarnc getting owned. Jaedong vs Justin was just Justing sucking ass.
Jaedong vs Leta would probably be the recommended game.
Don't bother watching this game...it's pretty one-sided despite quite sloppy play from both sides. Leta decides to try a 1base opening but JD goes 2hatch muta...Leta literally never leaves his nat for the entire game.
The only part worth watching was that last 10 seconds, for + Show Spoiler +
JD infesting Leta's nat CC!
You must be bitter because Best is slumping? That's like saying don't watch JD vs Fantasy. Which I'm sure you'd say.
No actually, JD vs. Fantasy was a great game for the queen usage. Comparing that game and JD vs. Leta is pretty ridiculous...obviously an innovative strategy can make any one-sided game entertaining. JD vs. Leta contained no such strategies, it was a pretty standard game that featured a lot of suiciding muta and scourge, failed drops, and containment. There was nothing impressive about it.
Unfortunately, a lot of one-sided games end up being relatively boring because the game seems over in the first 7 minutes. However, if you really analyzed the decisions made by the player (in this case Jaedong) I'm sure there are plenty of things to learn from. I'm sure not every Zerg could have won in that situation.
I found Leta's build really bad in the last game..
JD did well with the first dropship snipe that effectively won him the game, but Leta's build was never going to give him enough units to pressure JD in the mid-game stage.
I think he should have committed to SK terran at least until his expo (like Hwasin v Lux) which would have given him better control of the ground.
On February 18 2009 16:04 snapcrackle wrote: Mr Hoon you able to get a translation on the interview from JD on his all kill from the fomos webpage? would be much appreciated ^^
oh sorry snapcrackle Im actually doing a huge translation project for TL (well, not huge, but big for me)
On February 18 2009 16:04 snapcrackle wrote: Mr Hoon you able to get a translation on the interview from JD on his all kill from the fomos webpage? would be much appreciated ^^
oh sorry snapcrackle Im actually doing a huge translation project for TL (well, not huge, but big for me)
On February 17 2009 21:29 MrHoon wrote: Netizen LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA LEESSANG FOR DUAL BONJWA
For a while Hiya and Gogo looked like twins. When I saw the split screen of both of them before their game, it occurred to me that Gogo had changed a bit, but I couldn't put my finger on it. But I just figured it out: Gogo = Hiya with a little Hwasin mixed in.
On March 11 2009 14:22 peterwithbadgas wrote: I finally solved it.
For a while Hiya and Gogo looked like twins. When I saw the split screen of both of them before their game, it occurred to me that Gogo had changed a bit, but I couldn't put my finger on it. But I just figured it out: Gogo = Hiya with a little Hwasin mixed in.